Bean Spill two: Show me the money

[Andy_Stephenson]

Please understand I do not want to break confidences at this time so I will not release the names of some of the persons who gave me information. I must honor their wishes. Please understand

Now don't get me wrong...I am not accusing Bev of any wrong doing...but you decide.

When Bev and I discussed my position with black box voting it was agreed that I was to do the accounting for the organization. I was tasked with going to the mail box and depositing checks into the bank. Entering expenditures and receipts, doing book orders sending them out and recording the information. It was in Late September or early October that I learned that I had a "crack cocaine addiction" WOW this was news to me. Too bad it is not having the same effect on me that it has on others. I am over weight and I can sleep anytime anywhere and want to most of the time...so either I am getting some bad shit or I am not doing the aforementioned drug.

I would like to address Bev's recent accounting of the funds. She stated that receipts from Randi Rhodes show totaled $23,800 I can say without a doubt that that was a bald faced, bold assed effing lie and I have the documents to prove it. I do hope she will come clean and give a better accounting confession is good for the soul. Anyhow I digress...It has been suggested that Bev is a con-woman a fraud. She may be...I can't say for sure because the "bookkeeping" duties were taken from me about the time the organization started bringing in significant amounts of money. I will say, I asked Bev on more than one occasion (prior to having the duties taken away) for the receipts for expenditures the organization had made but was never given them. Now if this was forgetfulness I can't say, fraud...I can't say either. But then I don't know because Bev took it away. She did however tell a person of some importance that I was stealing money from the organization...said that "Andy is having donors write him checks and then he is depositing them into his personal account" (btw this person is going to testify for me). That is patently false something I hope she can prove of happening.

Let me tell you a story from back in the summer...Early July to be exact. Bev and I were getting ready to go on the road trip...The organization was finally set up...Bev was running errands and stopped by the mail box...to check the mail and to see if there were any donations there were. I can tell you for a fact not all of them made it to the organizations bank account. I don't know the exact amount...but is was at least several hundred dollars.

Lets go back a bit further and talk about QuiTam. I had no clue Bev was filing the QuiTam when she did. I was made aware of it in late Feb/early Mar of 2004 on our trip to California. Now Bev had always promised that if she did file QuiTam Tam she would include me for the information I had brought her regarding Jeff Dean and John Elder. But let me assure you...I have NEVER been in this for any kind of payout. I was doing a job for my country and I never expected a kings ransom from it. But apparently the point was moot as nothing I brought Bev was used in the Qui Tam and so I could not technically be a plantiff...or so I thought. Today I found out the information was used and was a part of the QuiTam...once again I Bev lied.

Now another interesting fact about the QuiTam. Bev had a source call her...Said they had information to give her. Shortly thereafter Bev began receiving packages. In these packages was the legal strategies Diebold was going to use in front of the VSPP. There was also a cursory mention of the QuiTam. The person who provided these documents has been and will be called whitehat. What this person did was very courageous. A few months ago I asked if we were going to help them. Her response was..."They Knew what they were doing" A response I find callous and horrible considering that Bev has now profited handsomely from their sacrifice. But that is what Bev does she uses people over and over again I have seen her do this. I am only sorry I found out too late.

I never thought I would come to this point and I am sorry I am here now...but in light of new information brought to me today the time has come for me to set the record straight. I will no longer be a victim of this woman. I am sincerely sorry and wish here and now to publicly apologize to David Allen, Eloriel, Roxane Jekot and the many others I hurt with my silence. I never meant any of you harm and I am ashamed I did not speak up sooner. I suppose I was in fear of Bev...Diebold...losing what I had who knows. But each of you are fine upstanding people. You are not the traitors that Bev has made and continues to make out of each of you. Quite the contrary...you are all patriots of the highest order and deserve praise for all that you have done for the cause.

Andy

[Clark2008]

1. I'm almost tempted to give a few Hail Marys

and some Our Fathers...

On a more serious note, thanks for posting all this.

I hope this public vetting will not get you in more legal trouble, however. Even in telling the truth, attorneys, oftentimes, don't want their client's hand shown.

Be careful out there!

[Andy_Stephenson]

She can sue if she wants.

Can't get blood from a turnip.

I have nothing to loose and can back everything up. Plus I think there are more than a few DUer's she has stepped on that would be more than willing to step up to the plate.

[Clark2008]

9. OK. I just didn't want you to get into any legal troubles

:)

This is an interesting read, so my voyeuristic side, of course, wants you to continue to post all this, but my altruistic side wants you to take care of you.

:pals:

[liberalnurse]

22. Andy, I am so sorry to hear all of this.......

I was so excited about the venture, actually proud and honored to spread the word of the dedicated research. I am so disappointed in Bev. I'm ashamed to say her name to anyone. She shames us all who are trying to make a difference. It takes one bad apple to spoil the basket. Damn her.

I'm glad you came here and set the record straight, as you are real!

[ohio_liberal]

2. "crack cocaine addiction"

She told someone you were addicted to crack?

[Andy_Stephenson]

5. Yes she asked them if they thought

I was doing crack cocaine.

[Maddy McCall]

10. I knew she was a devious bitch...

I just had no idea that she was THAT demented.

:hug: to you for all you have been through.

[ohio_liberal]

11. That's a good way to begin discrediting someone

Suggest they're not in their right minds or not to be trusted because of an addiction.

[Maddy McCall]

13. Yes, it's classic.

:grr:

[Freddie Stubbs]

63. Admitting that you have a drug problem is the first step...

;)

[carolinalady]

3. Question: Do you know if she used any of BBV's money for

expenses related to the suit?

Also, several years ago (1999) I was also fired from a crooked organization--my biggest crime being telling the truth. They had to let me go 'without cause' because I had an exemplary personnel record, but it still hurt deeply. The only thing that helps is time.
Last year the CEO who lied about me was finally found out for his misdeeds and fired. A small victory for me. There are others and I truly believe they will get theirs as well in the end and I will savor each and every small victory. As for me, well my life took some unexpected turns and I am happy and living at the beach with my husband and teenage sons. I could have never envisioned this life back then. Good things come to honest people-sometimes it just takes time.

[RevCheesehead]

20. Yup - nothing sweeter that having others say "I had no idea..."

You go through hell at the time, but once the dam is busted and people see who created the damage, you are no longer the focus.

Andy, the only reason I urge caution is concern for your own sanity. Just because she has very publically spoken about you does not mean you should do the same. And it really does help your public image, as one who can rise above the shit-storm. Employers don't care if you've been a part of a "mess" - but they DO care how you handle it.

I also think there is more at stake here. Please, let me explain, before anyone disagrees.

I believe in the organization of BBV. But I fear that perhaps too much damage has been done, and that its goals will not be able to be met, because of its leadership.

From what I've learned about Bev, I don't give a rat's ass if she goes down. But if her going down destroys the work of BBV and all of the countless volunteers and donors, then we've hurt ourselves - both publically and personally.

(sigh) - I don't know what the answers are...but it is clear that BBV needs to have new leadership. For the good of the movement, the leader must be separated from the movement. If her board of directors truly cares about the cause (rather than the person), they need to do the right thing, and appoint a new head of BBV.

Quite frankly, that's the patriotic thing to do.

[ohio_liberal]

21. Potential employers do care

that your former employer suggests you're a crackhead. Andy needs to stand up for himself.

[Eloriel]

27. Unlikely and unnecessary anyway

There are MANY other organizations working on this issue. She and her 501(c)(3) are just one, and probably not the main one either.

[troubleinwinter]

29. Haven't we been saying that we want whistle-blowers to expose corruption?

WHEREVER is is, it must be rooted out.

Corruption in an organization "on our side" will hurt our cause in the end. We cannot cover for it, or abide it.

[BeHereNow]

32. Hi Rev- Question for you...

Firstly, please let me say I do not intend this question
in any spirit of contention-
What work has BBV done that has come to any fruition
as far as actually making a difference?
Why do you think BBV and Bev were not contacted/included in
the Conyers proceedings?
I am hearing a great deal of information from independent new sources
about the work of many people concerning this election-
Greg Palast, Conyers, Wasserman etc...
NONE of these sources have included or mentioned Bev or BBV.
When I ask myself why that might be, the question is,
WHAT actual evidence/research has BBV produced that might
further the situation?
True, Bev was very influential in bringing the BBV debacle to
public attention, but other than that, what "work" has the organization
actually produced that benefits the cause?
BHN

[RevCheesehead]

35. You make an excellent point.

And perhaps BBV has outlived its usefulness.

This entire fraud issue is so HUGE, there is no way that one organization, micro-managed by one person, would be able to take on such enormous responsibilities. Bev apparently doesn't get it.

I suspect that Bev is probably a better "follower" than "leader," yet she insists on playing both roles. I've learned that if you're going to lead, you absolutely must delegate responsibility, and GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY and let people do their jobs.

Perhaps I have an "idealized" version of BBV in my head. I certainly hoped that Bev would share any information she uncovered - but now, it is clear that she wants sole possession of evidence. Why?

BHN: Thank you for your questions. It made me ponder - and I like to ponder! :hi:

[cry baby]

4. I wish you the best. I applaud your courage and thank you for

what you have done in our behalf with BBV and now, on your own. You are a patriot of the highest order.

Boy, Bev is going to be pis*ed when she reads this! Good!

[liam97]

7. hi andy

are you sure this kind of spilling is safe? worried for you - pl speak to a lawyer

[Ugnmoose]

6. Andy if you need any financial advice

Please PM me - I'm a Certified Financial Planner (32 years experience) and would love to help you if I can. Pro bono of course.

BTW: You are a very courageous person and a true credit to our cause. Bless you!

[Andy_Stephenson]

14. Can you grow...

1.20 into a nest egg?

I am in financial ruin right now...No job...no prospects and no as you can see money...

Thanks for the offer though.

[Ugnmoose]

19. You're welcome, but no thanks needed

If you feel comfortable giving me all the financial details I might be able to offer some suggestions. At a minimum I think we DU'ers should do all we can to help you locate a job. I think this deserves its own thread so we can spread the word, not only in this forum but others as well. After all we are all kin, so to speak, and we must help and protect each other. How about it?

[nedbal]

87. there are ways to help Andy who has done so much for us

just a reminder there are some links on how to help poping up. one is on http://www.blackboxvoting.COM on the lower right side. god luck and thanks Andy

>>>I am in financial ruin right now...No job...no prospects and no as you can see money...
Thanks for the offer though.<<<<

[Maddy McCall]

8. Holy god!

I KNEW IT! If she received donations and withheld them for her own personal use, that's fraud.

Dammmit, Andy. I am sorry that you have been put in the middle of this. It will certainly get worse before it gets better. Stand tall. YOU are a patriot. :loveya:

[ohio_liberal]

18. Cash or checks?

If she was cashing BBV.org checks and putting the money in her own pocket, then she is remarkably stupid. Pocketing small amounts of cash is difficult to prove.

[Andy_Stephenson]

44. Can't say if they were BBV checks or not...

only that they did not go to BBV.org

[Kelvin Mace]

55. I have received checks sent to my office

instead of Bev's. They are usually made out to "Bev Harris", and I simply send them back with a note and the address listed on bbv.org.

If she just cashed those checks, it would be a nice bit of change.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[eleny]

12. Oh Andy

You worked hard and trusted. And you deserved so much better than this. :hug:

[Generator]

15. I'm hoping for your sake and all our sakes there is no bean three

Good luck.

[Maddy McCall]

16. Explain.

No one "wanted" any of this to happen. Is that what you mean?

[Andy_Stephenson]

23. Bean spill three:

is in the works now.

[anamandujano]

17. Hope you told a lot of people about this, especially Arnebeck et al

I mean this particular event.

" Bev had a source call her...Said they had information to give her. Shortly thereafter Bev began receiving packages. In these packages was the legal strategies Diebold was going to use in front of the VSPP. There was also a cursory mention of the QuiTam. The person who provided these documents has been and will be called whitehat. What this person did was very courageous. A few months ago I asked if we were going to help them. Her response was..."They Knew what they were doing" "

Was or is she withholding information that fraud was in fact committed?

No need to tell us but please tell someone for protection.

You must have been stressed to the max.

[troubleinwinter]

24. I am sure that your courage in telling truth will save others:

potential donors, workers and volunteers from being taken avantage of, maligned and burnt down. You are doing a service.

[Eloriel]

25. Apology not necessary .... BUT

I don't remember "silence."

I could be wrong (LOL, I was once), and please correct me if I am, but after you started working for Bev, I don't remember silence on your part here at DU, what I seem to remember is fairly strong defense of her by you which, of course, really ends up translating as offense AT some of us who had less positive things to say about things.

If I have some of your responses confused with those of others at the time, please let me know -- not that it's all that important, it isn't really. As I've said to you privately, the one thing that bothers me most is that it was impossible for you (and a few others) to have learned from what several of us went through (others far more than I) where Harris was concerned. No way you guys were able to "hear" any of that, sadly. I suspect there are a few people who have yet to go through their learning curve. :shrug:

I guess what I personally minded the most at the time of my original problems with Bev (and you had little or nothing to do with this, except kinda obliquely, if that, and much later on) was the perceived damage to my own credibility. Someone as powerful a personality as Bev Harris (was, anyway) tells lies about you, and with the following she had, it's difficult to impossible to overcome that. Thinking back on that experience STILL stings.

Anyway, I'm truly sorry for all your loses, starting with your sister and especially your opportunity to be with her at the end. That's the kind of thing that can't be regained and can only be grieved, and at some leisure.

I have no doubt you'll bounce back from the other losses. You're a survivor.

[Andy_Stephenson]

26. I cannot even begin to tell you

How much I respect you.

[adolfo]

28. Thanks Andy

Hi Andy,

Thanks for sharing your experience. It is always important to know the character of the leaders we support, for good or bad.


Adolfo
www.recountflorida.com

[Boredtodeath]

30. Just stunning

It's obvious from this that she was "discussing" filing a Qui Tam lawsuit for quite some time before she did.

Andy, help me understand......she came out here and accused innocent people of filing Qui Tams without any evidence while she was doing it herself?

Will you confirm that for us, please?

[Andy_Stephenson]

34. Your exactly right...

She was always sure that Dill, Rubin, Jekot, Eloriel, Allen and a host of others were definitely in QuiTam. When in fact she was the only one. Sad isn't it. I would say two things about that...guilty conscience and projection.

More recently she has talked of filing a federal QuiTam. As recently as October she told me that I would not be part of it...if I did not "bring something to the table". I told her threaten to not include me if she wanted. It was no skin off my teeth. I was poor before...I got along...money changes everything as they say. Actually I am glad now that I was not in the QuiTam. The taint on that money would be too great for me to bear.

[Boredtodeath]

38. What's sad is

that good people let it go on. Andy, I know you are a good person and that's why I'm saying this:

I hope you'll accept responsibility for your part in that happening. While you may not have participated directly, you did nothing to correct her public accusations.

Whatever your reasons, I hope you'll step up today and admit you were wrong for not at least stating publicly that she had no proof of such claims to your knowledge.

I know it's easy for me to say from the outside looking in, but it will go a long way to show that you are not seeking revenge against Bev, but trying to right some wrongs done to innocent people.

[Andy_Stephenson]

43. BTD

That is exactly what I am doing. Too many have been wronged and slandered by Bev and it is time the record is set straight. I wish Bev no ill will. But the ones that have been used and abused...I cannot allow anymore to follow me.

I can say catagorically...Bev never had any proff that anyone had QuiTam going. It was all assumption on her part.

Bev has done a great job of Getting BBV to the mainstream...but on the backs of many. To see her profit now and not follow with promises made is unacceptable.

[Boredtodeath]

45. Thank you! There can be no greater honor

to the memory of your sister than for you to exhibit the courage and leadership you are showing here tonight.

I salute you, sir.

[Andy_Stephenson]

51. Thanks...but I am not feeliing too honorable right now...

I am tired of fighting anymore. I wish that things were different. I wish I had never gotten into this fight. But I am here now and well...must see it through to the end.

The six points were expensive...but it is a lesson learned.

[JMac]

31. "Andy's spilling the beans about Bev at DU"

lol, guess whos looking? :)

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&omm=0&om=110&forum=DCForumID4410

On edit: And she accused Andy of being on crack? According to Andy, she did. Well, I've donated my last dollar to BBV and I am going to write to Bev and request a refund! by Unbelievable -Crew-

[Boredtodeath]

33. Merry Christmas to Bev Harris

It looks like Santa is delivering that long overdue dose of karma she's had coming for some time now.

[Snivi Yllom]

84. A freight train full of coal lumps

Merry X-mas Bev! LOL

[Maddy McCall]

36. Question about that website, re the icons by the names.

What does that "Crew" icon mean? I see that some people have them and some don't. Are all of those people with "crew" by their names donors to BBV?

[Andy_Stephenson]

39. The site is set up so that no one needs

to sign up...Security is so lax there the it is a wonder it is nnot down all the time. No wonder the site is "hacked" it has the security of a screen door.

Crew simply means they are not officialy registered.

[Maddy McCall]

42. thanks.

[Boredtodeath]

40. It's equivalent to a "Guest" icon

The DCForum software allows for unregistered guests (if it's set up by ADMIN that way) to post on the message board.

The default "Guest" icon has been replaced by a small "CREW" icon so that you can't tell these people posting aren't even registered at the site.

[JMac]

53. Dang

I always thought that it meant they were part of Bev's Clean up Crew *trademark* and the others were guest.

[Boredtodeath]

56. Don't feel bad

She's had a lot of people fooled for a very long time.

Hopefully, though, her reign of terror has come to an end. Thanks to Andy.

[Blue in the face]

58. I'm sure this won't be there long

Here is how I see this whole situation. It is what I wrote at BBV.:

"I don't have inside info into anything, but I have talked to Bev on the phone while the shit was hitting the fan with KO and DU. And I'm ashamed to say that I've given $80 of my family's money to someone who has profitted off of blackbox voting, kept supposedly explosive video from being aired in the mainstream media and has given election fraud skeptics more ammunition than evidence.

All I've seen since donating to BBV.org is incompetence, finger-pointing and chaos. I haven't seen any more solid proof of election fraud than what I can read on any other blog or political message board. And for someone who had the public's ear and thousands of people donating time and money, that is shameful.

Bev, you have my money. And apparently you have a lot of other people's too. I'm not asking for it back, and I don't want to hear any more excuses. What I want to know is, are you going to put your (and mine and a lot of other people's) money where your mouth is and put the evidence that has been gathered out for the public to see and possibly, for the mainstream media to publicize? Or are you going to use what you and many volunteers have gathered to net yourself another nice little chunk of lawsuit settlement money?

If not, then in my opinion you are a charlatan just as guilty of benefiting from our flawed electoral system as any crooked politician or sleazy voting machine CEO and complicit in the theft of this election."

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=110&forum=DCForumID4410&viewmode=all

[slutticus]

69. Wiped of the face of the Earth as of 2:02 am CST

[Boredtodeath]

60. BBV's Pat A. Vesely

is DU's own "Paranoid Pat."

[Whirled Peas]

73. Are you sure about that?

There's a ParanoidPat on BBV, too, and that poster is definitely the same Pat as the ParanoidPat who was recently tombstoned here on DU.

If what you are saying is accurate, then the same person posted the "Fraud" (What did you do with all the money, Bev?) thread under the name Pat A. Vesely, while at nearly the exact same time was switching to another log in (ParanoidPat) and posting threads that are very supportive of Bev.

I could be incorrect, but that scenario doesn't sound logical. I think they are two different people.

[troubleinwinter]

70. Hahaa!!!! This has been wiped from her site, too!

[Andy_Stephenson]

37. Let me take a moment her to talk about a pre election episode...

I was called by Mike Vreeland from jail somewhere in Iowa. He told me that there was an attack planned on the twin cities. He said it was going to be Nuclear and was planned for election day.

Now I was a bit gullible about Mike...and was not sure he was telling the truth or not. I reported here at DU because if in fact something had happened I would have felt horrible forever about it.

At this point vreeland could tell me the sky is blue and I would not believe him.

BTW I expect soon that a barage of hate filled attacks will be coming my way from the BBV site. Bev and a few ringleaders will be virulent in their attacks on me. It is ok...perhaps I have been wrong in my posts here tonight. But the crap i have seen and heard from more than one source over the last couple of days has led me to this point.

[Maddy McCall]

41. You can't let them to continue to control you by threatening to...

tell stuff about you. The Vreeland thing--so what! You didn't hurt people, you just reported what you had heard.

Let them attack you from BBV. It's crystal clear to those of us who are objective that anything they say will be nothing but retaliative vendettas against you. Therefore, those attacks will be dismissed.

[JMac]

48. First my condolences Andy

I don't think you were wrong tonight. You have been more then fair, as evidenced by the interview you did with Breakfornews. She is lucky that I wasn't one of the people crossed, because I would have been hell bent on destroying anything and everything she was involved with to get even. She would have a reason to be paranoid. Anyways, Best Wishes and Happy Holidays.

[preciousdove]

124. Missed your pre-election post

Any chance you were supposed to leak it giving "homeland security" access to our precincts? Your info was not echoed on the VoterMN list and Shrub lost here.

I would still like to see an investigation into the Kennedy-Wetterling district. With Mike Walsh American's Most Wanted coming out for Witterling and the local media taking Kennedy to task for his dirty false campaign that Kennedy won on the up and up.

MoveOn.org rep was at my polling place monitoring but I don't know if any additional investigation is going on anywhere. When I posted a question about it on the MN forum directly after the election. Bev sent an alert and had the message pulled. DU never told me why the message was pulled. I mentioned that Diebold had used Anoka Co as a beta test and could change things without getting permission.

[Must_B_Free]

46. power corrupts

even Saddam had good intentions at one time. He did a lot of good for Iraq, before he did a lot of bad for it.

[troubleinwinter]

47. Who has been keeping the account books since you stopped doing it?

[Andy_Stephenson]

49. Unknown

So I will not speculate on that.

[Kelvin Mace]

50. Thank you for the apology

it is accepted.

It is hard to speak up sometime, especially when we are afraid and Bev could be quite frightening in her rages.

Folks, this was the kind of thing that I and others had to deal with behind the scenes.

Abusive phone calls at all hours of the day (I had given Bev a special 800 number I give my artists, so all the abuse was on MY dime) where I was accused of being a liar and a cheat. My expertise was derided, my contribution belittled and my resources squandered.

Maybe now, folks will *finally* start believing us.

Bev Harris has made me question how I spent the last two years of my life. My wife begged me to drop the project as nothing was worth the abuse. I stuck to it because it was my duty as a citizen. For this, I, and others have paid dearly.

And no, I don't say this so folks will say what a good Joe I am. I had to do it because it was the right thing to do and I have to live with myself.

It didn't have to be this way. Bev could have treated people respectfully and been rewarded for her efforts with recognition and financial recompense. The book we worked on could have done well, but Bev sabotaged it from the start. It could have been in every book store in America, but Bev preferred to queer an excellent deal with a name publisher and then accuse ME of the deed she committed.

Why? Spite. Pure, concentrated spite.

Instead of breaking even or making a small profit, I have had to let my one employee go because of lost sales and projects dropped to work on this.

Do you know how frustrating it is to put your heart and soul into something, then see someone accuse you of betraying that same effort? Someone you have worked with and helped?

Che fatica essere uomi!

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Andy_Stephenson]

52. And to the Bev Bots...

Buyer Beware.

[ohio_liberal]

57. E DONNA!

*sheesh* ;)

[Kelvin Mace]

62. Actually,

una donna specifico.

Parla italiano?

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Andy_Stephenson]

54. Any Washington State Lawyers want to help with a few

unsettled issues I have with BBV?

[Catherine Vincent]

61. Sorry for your problems, Andy.

I hope you get everything straightened out.

[farmerTom]

116. Andy looking for work?

I'm trying to start up a voting machine and accessory company, looking for someone to be the CEO. It’s in the concept stage but I know it can be done.

http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/index.php?showtopic=10724&pid=111373&st=80&#entry111373

I've considered several times of this, but recently in a thread on Common Ground-Common Sense forum I decided that it needs to be done, and no-one is going to do it for me. The position of CEO is not a figure head job; it'll be very hard work. Let’s talk.

[Andy_Stephenson]

121. Email me

lets talk. I have a few conditions however and they are non-negotiable.

[e-mail]

[Cyclical]

59. Huh?

I'm a new poster here, so I'll be honest, I'm not quite sure who you are, Andy, or what you did with BBV. But it sounds like you were very directly involved, and as a result, got, somehow, very directly slimed. And I'm sorry to hear it.
But wow, I must have missed something.

Where's a good thread where I can find out how BBV and Harris became the bad guys? I took about a week off (I got a new video game and had to bond with it... I am not proud) from DU and this switch happens faster than daddy Bush flip-flopped on Saddam!

Can somebody link me?

[Niche]

64. Where's the info. gotten from freedom of information acts?

this is a ridiculous drama played out here. I've lost money on this mess too... you've mentioned nothing about the voting machines, nothing about what has happened with the investigation. Also, I do know that BBV helped win a case against Deibold here in the state of CA. Isn't that true Andy? So something WAS done, what's going on now besides all this slam, slam smack!

[Kelvin Mace]

65. WE LOST IN CALIFORNIA

The case was settled for $2.6 million "with prejudice", meaning all that lovely evidence cannot be used in a lawsuit in California ever again. Bev and Jim March walk away with fat check and the voters get NADA. Diebold still in CA.

I would guess that the FOIA info is piling up on a desk somewhere. One day, someone may find something interesting.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[troubleinwinter]

71. Yuh. Her response on her site was that "something bizarre happened"

and that "they were weighing their options". Uh-huh. AINT NO OPTIONS!!! "With prejudice" means it is over forever. Just stringin' 'em along, as usual.

[valis]

104. Who got 2.6M ? Harris & March?

[Kelvin Mace]

113. No, they got $75K a piece

Total settlement includes all plantiffs.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Pastiche423]

66. What did the Diebold case actually "win"

Please educate us here.

[Garbo 2004]

68. Won: A slap on the wrist for Diebold, no discovery, no trial, no evidence

publicly presented in court. Funds from the $2.6 settlement go to the State, Alameda County and to some other stuff. Plus reportedly the CA AG offered the original qui tam plaintiffs (Harris and March) $75,000 each as their take from the settlement.

Hardly the results Harris and March claimed they were really going for: (if my recollection is correct) at a minimum, having Diebold machines not used in California and I think I saw mentioned that ideally at a maximum (or maybe just a wished for goal in general not solely dependent on the case), Diebold would be put out of business altogether. However, once the State AG took over the case the qui tam plaintiffs effectively lost any real sway in the case. And they knew that.

Yet they still kept talking about taking Diebold to discovery when they had no power to force such an outcome and it was unlikely a judge would stop a settlement made by the State AG and local DA. This is especially true if they never submitted any motion to the court to protest the settlement as was reported elsewhere. Given that over a month transpired between the proposed settlement and the court approval of the settlement there was ample time to file such a motion with the court.

Article in the SF Chron when the proposed settlement was first announced. http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/11/11/BAG869PCU31.DTL

[slutticus]

67. Like the b**** said, It's OK to say the F word...

FRAUD

This ***t will reap what she has sewn.

[bobbyboucher]

72. This post is totally unnecessary and rather idiotic.

Why are so many here fighting this "let's disparage Bev" game to the hilt. It is unnecessary. If she is not who she claimed, or is not just like what we'd hoped for, well then let her fade away. But my guess is that she has worked hard and put up with an enormous amount of shit, not to mention spending a great deal of her own money and foregoing other work to do Black Box, etc.

For those of us that just want to get at the truth and don't really give a flying fuck about ya'll airing your dirty laundry in public, which will MOST CERTAINLY NOT aid our cause in any way shape or form, please give it a rest.

How about this, show a little class and a little dignity by shutting the fuck up!

[NC Beach Girl]

74. Class and dignity???

Did you make the same post over at Bev's forum when she maliciously announced she had fired Andy on the front page of her non-profit site and helpfully listed the (suspect) reasons? You told her to shut up and show dignity and class, right?

Well, I guess if you did post that she deleted it within seconds, so no matter.

She has smeared him publicly, he has every right to relate his side of the story and the facts as only he knows them. If you don't want to hear about it, don't read the threads...simple as that.

On a side note, in the future when you want to preach to others about class and dignity you might want to leave off all those classy expletives. :)

[suziedemocrat]

75. I disagree - we should not tolerate bad behavior!

I've had bosses from hell - not as bad a Bev - but very bad none the less. There is no excuse for bosses to bully their employees or volunteers. Sadly - most of my horrible bosses were also women - may sound sexist - but I think some women don't control their emotions or handle stress as well as some men - and it may be biological. I am a woman and I can tell you I also have a short fuse and I have to make sure to eat right, get lots of sleep, and take vitamins to avoid being a bitch for no reason. There is NO EXCUSE for bad behavior like this - and I think the world needs to stop accepting and stop making excuses for bad behavior behavior from people. And to insinuate someone has a drug problem - that 's beyond terrible.

Maybe - Bev's body chemistry is just all out of whack! The adrenal system has a lot to do with how we handle stress. If our system becomes too taxed - we get stuck in the "alarm" phase of the stress syndrome where we lash out for no reason. There are herbs like Rhodiola Rosea, etc that can help balance the adrenal system and make it so people can handle stress better. Read about it: http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/fulltext/stress4-4.html

I think this is important because the stress on all of us will just get worse IMO - and we need to be ready to handle it.

[Kelvin Mace]

97. Yet another apologist

who seems to believe tha Bev should be free to say anything she wants and we should just shut up.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[RhodaGrits]

76. I've known a woman who I believe is mentally ill and

one thing I discovered over the years that I knew her was the quickest way to uncover what was going on with *her* was to look at her accusations against others. No matter how outrageous the accusations, eventually it came out that *she* was doing precisely that - theft, fraud, accumulating kiddie porn, you name it... she accused those closest to her who were trying to help her (and betrayed them) and later proof of those activities was found that pointed directly at her. Some of Bev's actions remind me of hers.

The scariest part was she truly believed in her version of reality - it was what made her lies so compelling to anyone who had not lived with numerous examples of her modus operandi. She is psychopathic. The personal experiences related here remind me so much of tales of the woman I know I keep reminding myself that they are NOT the same person.

[dobegrrrl]

77. Sorry

That is terrible. I knew something was amiss when she was on Randi's show. My ex accused me of being a crackhead and it took me totally by surprise. It came out of no where. That is a cruel, devious, mean-spirited trick.

Hang in there, remain strong, and know that the truth will prevail (they got my ex for insurance fruad a couple of years later! :bounce:

I sent BBV a couple of check too. :spank:

[dobegrrrl]

78. BTW - whose "side" is she on anyway?

I heard Bev comment that she was nonpartisan either on Randi's show or soon thereafter. Anyone who heard that interview knew that she was lying then -- kind of reminded me of the "liar in chief."

[Boredtodeath]

80. I'd say that's clear - Bev's side

For her, there appears to be no other side.

[jdog]

79. This is all very sad.

BBV was the first place I went when I was questioning the election, and much of the information on that web site is what inspired me to move forward, and eventually find DU. It is a shame it has become so messed up, and it sounds like alot of people got hurt in the process.

Part of the difficulty I think is that the DU forum is so public, the results of conflict in an organization that used to occur behind closed doors are put right out there in public view. Yet, in a way, that's also why DU is so effective in what it's been doing. It's certainly a new medium for all of us to use, and I think everyone is impressed and kind of scared by its power. I don't think there's anything wrong with utilizing it now to air the "dirty laundry." DU is what it is. Sounds like a lot of good people have gotten hurt utilizing this forum, and for that reason they have a right to defend themselves in this forum, IMO.

My biggest question in all of this is the FOIA requests. I thought the filing of those requests was brilliant, and I was very hopeful they would allow for gathering the type of evidence that will be needed to prove fraud. Were those all filed in the name of BBV, or Bev, or who? As contributors for that specific purpose (at least for me) don't we have some right to demand the use of them on our behalf?

[carolinalady]

81. They are acting awfully cocky over there----

Jim March
Crew
Dec-24-04, 05:28 AM (PST)

8. "Will there be a new section on fraud committed by BBV directors?"
In response to message #0

I really hope so.
I'm RICH!!



http://www.blackboxvoting.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=102&forum=DCForumID4410&omm=8&viewmode=threaded

[Boredtodeath]

82. That's not necessarily Jim March

Anyone can sign in over there with any name. Try it - go post as "Santa Claus" and see. You'll even get a "CREW" button for your efforts.

While I think March is an arrogant SOB, I don't think he's that stupid.

[Kelvin Mace]

85. Their site has ZERO security

So anyone can sign on under any name and post anything. Kind of ironic, dontcha think?

Of course, some may claim this is intentional, a way to deny earlier damaging posts.

But, I don't think she's that clever.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Snivi Yllom]

83. holy shiat!

You can't make this stuff up. An amazing behind the scenes account of what REALLY happened.

[Karenca]

86. I never did follow the Bev thing, but out of curiosity after reading this

thread--I went over there. Below, I pasted a quote from Bev, written today. Sounds defensive and hostile to me.....

"Some people began to hope that Black Box Voting would reverse the presidential election.

Now, let's look at this idea for a moment: John Kerry literally ran away from the idea of doing any auditing or recounts, and only grudgingly agreed to be involved at all. He invested none of millions that he had raised from his donors was "to make sure every vote counts."

Instead, our small organization, with just two full time employees and a volunteer, were supposed to bootstrap our way into overturning a presidential election -- without the support of the candidate himself -- something that has never been done in history, and an activity that our nonpartisan nonprofit 501c(3) status specifically prohibits.

I hear the angst in America, from people who know this election was not trustworthy. I do believe that the person most responsible for failure to get an accountable election is John Kerry himself."

[valis]

89. Is anything of what she says in the quote false?

Seems like a description of facts to me...

[Boredtodeath]

93. Selective amnesia

Some people began to hope that Black Box Voting would reverse the presidential election.

Ummmm, because Bev Harris led them to believe that they would:

We now have evidence that certainly looks like altering a computerized voting system during a real election, and it happened just six weeks ago.

MONDAY Nov 1 2004: New information indicates that hackers may be targeting the central computers counting our votes tomorrow. All county elections officials who use modems to transfer votes from polling places to the central vote-counting server should disconnect the modems now.

SEATTLE, WASHINGTON Nov 3 2004 -- Did the voting machines trump exit polls? There’s a way to find out.

Black Box Voting (.ORG) is conducting the largest Freedom of Information action in history. At 8:30 p.m. Election Night, Black Box Voting blanketed the U.S. with the first in a series of public records requests, to obtain internal computer logs and other documents from 3,000 individual counties and townships. Networks called the election before anyone bothered to perform even the most rudimentary audit.

America: We have permission to say No to unaudited voting. It is our right.

Isn't it too late?

We are dealing with well financed people who are trying to run out the clock. They probably will succeed in that. However, we probably will succeed in proving fraud.

We are doing forensic analysis of the available evidence. We are targeting specific locations based on criteria indicative of fraud.

We don't know what happened on Nov. 2. We will find out.

All right there on the front page of her site, right now, today.

[Kelvin Mace]

94. All right there on the front page of her site, right now, today.

Until it disappears...

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Boredtodeath]

95. One day she might learn

That File>SaveAs is killing her. Until then, she's etching her behavior in stone.

[Boredtodeath]

91. Nothing is ever her fault

And, evidently, we were really stupid to think she could make a difference when it was clearly somebody else's responsibility.

I just hope everyone remembers this sentiment when Bev Harris and the BevBorg come calling for support.

I'm not talking about the "It's Kerry's fault" sentiment but the "who me? I never promised you anything" sentiment.

[Lerkfish]

92. one of the surest signs of fraud...

is the inability to accept ANY culpability in any situation, but instead, heaping detriment on the people who are the most victimized.

To Blame Kerry for not magically fighting fraud against him, in order to distract from charges against herself, is all the proof I need.

[valis]

106. Reminds me of a certain chimpy....

[JohnGideon]

88. I Can Bear Witness To The Qui Tam Information

Late last year I was sitting at a table in the cafeteria at the capital in Olympia after Bev, RedEagle, and I had testified before a legislative committee. The three of us, plus my son, were talking about what all was going on when Bev told us that she was planning on filing a Qui Tam and wanted to include Andy, RedEagle and myself in the suit. RedEagle and I both told her that neither of us was in this for the money and I told her I was not really interested in being a part of any suit. I do not remember Bev mentioning Jim March as a partner in any lawsuit but she was very much interested, at that time, in rewarding Andy for the work he had been doing.

Andy, I want to wish you all the best in any decisions that you make. You have friends out here. You certainly have friends who would have been more vocal in their support but for your allegiance to Bev.

[Kelvin Mace]

90. Do you remember the time frame?

I am piecing together a chronology.

Interesting.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[JohnGideon]

98. December 3, 2003

My son had an email on file that he sent to Bev that evening. Bev had been invited to go back to speak to students and others at Swarthmore and she was concerned that the plane might be hijacked by Diebold or that a hit might be out for her.

But that was the day that she old Red, my son and I that she was going to file a QuiTam and wanted to include all of us in it. She also mentioned that Andy would be included.

[troubleinwinter]

101. Two lies here.

Lie #1) That Andy would be included in Qui Tam.
Lie #2) To Andy: His contributions would not be part of the Qui Tam.

Truth: HE was not included, but his material WAS.

[Kelvin Mace]

103. Lie #3

See below:

She had already filed the suit.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Kelvin Mace]

102. OK, that means Bev was lying to you at the time.

On July 9, 2004 when she announced her law suit, Bev wrote:

This case was originally filed back in November of 2003, and the existence of the case was held under seal by the courts while various government attorneys decided whether or not to "join in the case".

Bev had ALREADY filed the suit when she had this conversation with you.

Why was she conconcting a lie by inviting you and others to be part of a lawsuit that was already filed?

I am glad she told someone else the silly story about why she didn't go to Swarthmore. That little escapade cost me money as well, since I had paid for her air fare, hotel and rental car so she could attend the event which was honoring her. I tried to get up to the event, but Philly was snowed out by the time my flight was due in. Bev had been booked in early that morning and would have beat the snow by hours.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[valis]

107. Could it be possible, theoretically, that she felt guilty and was

considering sending in an addendum or something? is that even possible? Guys, I think we are talking about a severely disturbed person here, seriously paranoid and narcissistic.

[Boredtodeath]

109. Not possible in Qui Tam

You must present your evidence to the authorities so they can investigate criminal charges while the case is under seal. There are no "amended complaints" in Qui Tam.

[valis]

110. Thanks for clarifying. That leaves virtually no "nice" explanations.

[Lerkfish]

115. an even MORE NEFARIOUS possibility occurs to me...

let's follow the "money" so to speak.
What is the end result of this WHOLE fiasco? (the qui tam)..If I am understanding this correctly (and I am no lawyer, so I might not be)

1. Diebold is out a mere pittance
2. Diebold cannot be "gotten to" now, due to double jeopardy.
3. Diebold continues to function, and therefore is in prime position to steal all future elections.
4. Connections between diebold and BushCo cannot be discovered, exposed, or prosecuted. so that trail is covered.


Sounds pretty Rovian to me: hypothetically, you could set up a singular "leader" to spearhead a sham campaign against you....You could have that agent discourage in an extreme manner the possibility of anyone else interfering (not allowing anyone else to file a qui tam), hoarding information, not releasing damaging information as its discovered, all under the guise of saving it up for the final indictments. Meanwhile, you settle the suit, without telling anyone, so that all efforts are pointless, YET you keep up the appearance of moving ahead so as not to tip your hand BEFORE the election.

Did this happen? I have no idea, but think about it, and it is consistent with other rovian tactics, and even if it was planned or intentional, the end result is the same: Bushco is protected, Diebold is protected, and continues to operate so the "plan" to subvert voting remains unchecked. Whether through incompetence or design, you have to wonder at the results.

The real question would be to see if Bev ends up with a LARGE amount of money after this, unrelated to the settlement. In other words, Bushco rewards their plants handsomely, if she is one.

It certainly fits all observations if so.

Keep in mind, this is just a theoretical possibility, I have no basis to actually make this claim, I'm just connecting dots and see this as ONE of many possibilities here that perhaps not everyone has considered.

[Kelvin Mace]

117. One of Bev's threats to me

was that she would supoena my (and my wife's) bank records to determine if I had received a "large sum of money to sabotage the book."

If I would sign over all my rights to her, she *might* leave me alone.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Lerkfish]

118. do you think that's projection?

just curious.

why would she make that threat? seems an odd thing to just pop into her head.
We all know one of the best ways to know what a republican is doing is to listen to what they accuse you of.

sorry that happened to you.

[Kelvin Mace]

119. Dunno

She comes across to me as a totally self-absorbed control freak with a serious jones for attention.

She has accused all who oppose her of working for the "enemy".
David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[valis]

120. It is HARD to believe anyone right now.

With time and comparative evidence things may change...

[Lerkfish]

123. true. but as I said, regardless of intent, result is plus in Diebold's

favor, and therefore protects Bushco.

whether gross incompetence or design, the end result is the same: voters have lost a weapon to keep their votes fairly counted.

(assuming I'm understanding this issue correctly)

[valis]

125. One of these scanarios has to happen:

EITHER:

1) Bev Harris apologizes in public and recognizes that her time is over and that a number of competent people are still working on this. She should endorse them.

OR:

2) Bev Harris falls down in flames, some public comparison of evidence is done to establish once for all that she was the one who was behaving dishonestly, whereas a number of other people were trying to do the right thing and will continute to do so.

Either way, she has to get out of the way and there has to be convincing evidence that the others are not after exactly the same thing she was (saying it is not enough).

[Kelvin Mace]

126. She will go down in flames

screaming of conspiracy all the way.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[troubleinwinter]

96. How long was this lie maintained?

"....nothing I brought Bev was used in the Qui Tam and so I could not technically be a plantiff...or so I thought. Today I found out the information was used and was a part of the QuiTam...once again Bev lied."

At a minimum, from when it was filed until yesterday.

Never did Bev fess up during the suit... I assume the truth did not even finally come from Bev herself?

[valis]

108. It seems so...

[FloridaCrat]

99. Andy, Thank you. Please take extra good care of yourself. Question?

I'm not sure if you're planning on covering this in STB's Part III, but a few questions:

1) What was the evidence from Broward and what happened to it?
2) Is there any follow up you would recommend to that evidence, that is not already happening?
3) I live in Broward, so if there's anything I can do for the cause from here, please PM me.

Many people signed up to volunteer at BBV, it's too bad things got so disorganized. I sent money too, but that's not even my biggest issue. I think you've done fantastic work and I'm sorry the mission is left in hands that don't deserve the responsibility for carrying on. I wanted BBV and us all to be successful in fighting the scum who think our elections and votes and Democracy don't matter.

[Capn Sunshine]

100. kick

Front page material.

[valis]

105. Front page indeed!!!

[roenyc]

112. How sad

Andy i am new to DU but i have heard you on air America and was very impressed with you. if you are the voice i am thinking of. i am sorry you were screwed.

this entire thing is depressing. especially since you seamed to know what you were talking about and I could hear the love of your job in your voice.

I never heard that in Bev's voice. i didn't send bevy money and i dont know why. i was going to but didn't. glad i didn't.

just so sad that we keep getting screwed. who does a lib trust. she has to be republican. thats all i can say.

Good luck with getting out from under this. its going to be ok.

[Eloriel]

111. I just have to say

reading thru this thread gives me such a heavy heart -- the losses, the lies, the betrayals, the missed opportunities, what might have been.

Andy, you've comported yourself well in your "bean spilling," IMO. I think you did the right thing. I so hope there will be some catharsis for you and a lot of people as a result.

Hugs and blessings,

Eloriel

[Kelvin Mace]

114. Yeah, I was pretty depressed over the whole

thing for the last few days.

Ugly flashbacks...

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Boredtodeath]

122. Christmas kick

.