I need a big favor from the folks in this forum

[WilliamPitt]

I am speaking on Sunday at one of the vote fraud rallies. They wish me to keynote the thing, and speak for 15 minutes or so. That means I can deliver a pretty good chunk of information.

There is so much data flying around here and everywhere else that it is hard for me to generally prioritize what needs to be put forth. Here is my general outline:

1. Most recent updates from Ohio and elsewhere
2. Overview of Conyers hearing
3. ?

In your opinion, what information needs to rise to the top of the list of stuff that needs to be talked about?

Please note that I don't plan to go into the Curtis or Fisher issues, as they have not been established as valid to my comfort.

Thanks for your help.

[crispini]

1. Arnebeck filing on Monday, I guess that would be #1.

Also, a call to action -- if you're speaking to a bunch of activists they would probably like and even welcome a direction and/or idea about what to do.

[lonestarnot]

9. Agree

[Wordie]

22. Yes..that would be great. n/t

[Im with Rosey]

49. Maybe it would be wise

to CONFIRM positively that Arnenbeck is absolutely going to file on Monday. I've read everything(I think!) and haven't seen confirmation about the filing.

[berniew1]

138. Documentation Kerry likely to win Ohio recount: Arnebeck support info

Analysis Indicates Kerry could win Ohio with a "fair process" and fair vote count
http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/supreme.htm
http://www.flcv.com/ohiov04.html

Systematic Voter Suppression: STEALING VOTES IN Ohio Urban Areas (by ward/precinct)
Stealing Votes in Columbus
http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/columbus.htm
Stealing Votes in Cleveland http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/cleveland.htm
www.votersunite.org/electionproblems.asp?sort=date&selectstate=OH&selectproblemtype=ALL

Indications of possible ballot box stuffing in S.W. Ohio counties
http://www.flcv.com/swohio.html
http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/warren.htm
Indications of irregularities or fraud in several Ohio counties
http://www.flcv.com/fraudioh.html
Favoritism in the Suburbs http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/suburbs.htm

Richard Hayes Phillips, Ph.D. 4 Fisher Street Canton, New York 13617 [phone]
[e-mail]
(mark and paste URL into browser)

[saracat]

2. Fabulous , Will !

I am so glad you are NOT saying anything about Curtis or Fisher. I would raise the question of the lockout though.

[lizzieforkerry]

35. If you want some more info on this, pm me

[lizzieforkerry]

84. info on the lockout

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[liberalhistorian]

3. What about the suspicions

concerning several Dem counties in Florida that utilized optical scanning for voting; a large amount of Kerry votes suddenly became a large amount of Bush votes. Has anything more been said/done about that?

I'm in Ohio, near Cleveland, and I can honestly say that there are many, many suspicicions around here about the validity of the Ohio vote, including some precincts in this area.

P.S.: Hey, Will, where's my book you borrowed from me on May 4 at Kent? :evilgrin:

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

4. imho, glitches for bush

all of the instances of extra votes for bush/all glitches almost 99.9% going in favor of bush.

for ex: The instances in the Ohio county where there were 3x more votes for bush then reg. voters

it at least made it clear to me that there is something WRONG going on.

On edit: Thanks Will for being such a great truth seeker.

[liam97]

12. The Apartheid Voting System as Palast said

I think the point that several such as Palast, Jackson, Fitrakis have been making about the discrimination againsts people of color - there was a fanatastic line in Voting While Black: Racism in the Coverage of the Recount?
by Lynne Serpe (commondreams)

"Fifty years after Rosa Parks took a stand, I guess it is still okay if some of us ride in the back of the bus".

I also think that the anti-war movement and the fair elections movements must now merge into one pervasive movement. Challenging the legitimacy of the war can no longer be separated from challenging the very legitimacy of the government which is waging the war.

[nofurylike]

127. YES!! NUMBER 1 ! ! !

"The smell of Black votes burning..." !!!!

MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL!!!

imho


THANK YOU WP for ALL you do!!



peace and resistance!!

[anamandujano]

78. awesome slogan or sign material-- "glitches for bush"

"people for kerry", or vice versa

[tex-wyo-dem]

5. How about a call to release raw exit poll data...

And for Mitofsky(sp?) to get a new server (see: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x136599)

Oh, almost forgot the mysterious Warren County lock-down.

[jdog]

6. The large amount of old-fashioned thuggery that went on. n/t

[MarkusQ]

21. And biased distribution of voting resources

Most people don't realize how much effect the long lines in Ohio had, what caused them, or how systematically they were distributed.

A long line means that people are arriving to vote faster than they can be processed with the resources (booths, machines, etc.).

Persistent long lines mean that the number of votes recorded in that precinct is determined not by the desire of the people but by the resources allocated to them; specifically, the total number of votes can not exceed

(the number of booths or machines provided)*(the number of hours the polls remained open)*60
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(the average number of minutes it takes to vote),

or about 180 per machine.

This means that whoever determined who got what resources, and not the voters, decided who won in Ohio, and thus picked our president for us.

--MarkusQ

[jdog]

25. VERY important points. n/t

[ohio_liberal]

29. Franklin County alone

Franklin County BOE Director Matt Damschroder admitted on November 19, 2004 that 77 machines malfunctioned on Election Day. Only 2,741 voting machines were delivered through November 2 (remember that it was estimated that Franklin County actually needed 5000 machines). Franklin County's records say that they had 2,866 machines available on election day. That means at least 125 machines were not used.

[MarkusQ]

89. If the 5000 machines needed is acurate...

...that would mean that they were over 2000 machines short, and thus that (conservatively) 180*2000 = 360,000 votes were suppressed just in that one county.

That's three times the margin by which the presidential race was decided.

Can you source the "5000 machines needed" number? I'd recommend to anyone reading this that they do so before using the 360,000 votes number, since we don't want to misrepresent the issue. (The 180 comes from assuming the polls were open 15 hours and it took 5 minutes on average to vote).

--MarkusQ

[rockedthevoteinMA]

109. They mentioned it in the Conyers hearing the other day

I can't remember who it was who was speaking - one of the panelists though, I believe stated this as fact.

[MarkusQ]

110. So THREE TIMES the margin in Ohio just from machine shortages!!

I knew it was bad, but Yikes!

--MarkusQ

[rockedthevoteinMA]

111. WOW!

Thank you MarkusQ for putting it in such small terms my non math brain could understand!! :hi: That's beyond belief.

[lostnfound]

113. with fraud that obvious on the OUTSIDE, what's INSIDE the black boxes?nt

[Liberty Belle]

7. See the Washington Post article

today's or yesterday's, someone just posted in another thread (breaking news, I think). It reveals a convenient power blackout just at the time the switch occurred from Kerry leading in exit polls to Bush miraculously pulling ahead 3 points when the power came back up.

[Griffy]

39. Ask people.. why should we suddenly believe exit polls flawed.

put this in 2000 and 2002 light... perhaps mention that 2002 there were NO exit polls...

[smartvoter]

8. How about taking on the "glitch" myth?

In the computer world, because multiple machines use the same software, so-called glitches are almost certain to exist on other machines running the same software. If you fund a problem in one, they all are suspect.

The reason I suggest this is there is a big gap in the public between tech-savvy people and non-technical people relative to the glitch argument. At some point, this gap must be bridged -- too many just don't get it right now and accept the "glitch on THAT machine" argument.

[MadScientist]

93. Agree

I've said it a few times before, but here it is again:

Glitch implies something that 'just happens', nothing can be done about it, won't ever happen again, it's not the fault of anyone.

The correct word is MALFUNCTION.

Glitch is a repuke SPIN WORD.

We either need to deny their use of it by always and immediately shooting back the word "Malfunction", or else spin it heavily to mean Glitch=Fraud.

Frankly I don't think the latter will be very effective - Mainstream people haven't learned as we have that the 'glitches' are ridiculous in scope to the point of absurdity.

And it's too easy for the debunkers and spinsters to simply utter one syllable ('glitch') and shrug their shoulders and the discussion is over.

[mackdaddy]

120. Agree: Glitch = FAILURE of voting integrity n/t

[glitch]

132. That's why I changed my screen name. Kept reading here a glitch there a

glitch, everywhere a glitch glitch, eff it, if that's a glitch, I'm a glitch.
As if saying it was a 'glitch' answered all questions about pervasive fraud in the code.
:puke:

[suston96]

10. Some thoughts

I posted this on another thread. No numbers. Just thoughts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x137383#137609

Keep up the good work. You are a true patriot.

[merh]

11. A call to action -- a realistic outline that lets the average joes

and josephines know what they can do to make a difference, to get action. (e.g. don't let the media or our leaders get away with their silence. Email, snail mail, fax, telephone calls, all of the above.)

We have the power to make a difference if we choose to make the difference.

Our leaders tell us we are in Iraq and Afghanistan for the purpose of bringing democracy to their citizens. How about supporting our troops by ensuring democracy at home first!



(BTW boycotting a channel doesn't cut it, warnings to the advertisers that you will no longer purchase their goods if they continue to buy ads to be aired during the worst of the RW lies - that is what freepers used relative to CBS airing of St. Raygun )

[mongo]

13. How about the near blackout by the media

and the dismissive tone of most articles and newscasts?

BTW - where are you going to be?

[carolinalady]

14. It needs to be strongly explained about the nature of the

hearings. The Repubs keep trying to paint it as a partisan mudslinging activity. It needs to be pointed out that they were invited to participate and refused, etc. Thanks.

[BR_Parkway]

52. Does anyone know WHERE they actually were during the first hearing?

Seems like a good talking point if they were found to be busy doing things like christmas shopping, playing golf, free lunching with some lobbyists, (shacked up with a mistress wouldn't hurt)

What did they have to do that was more important than attend THAT meeting!?!

[bj2110]

15. 3 Important Messages:

1) Where is the raw exit poll data? What is to gain by keeping it private? Under so much scrutiny, why has it not been made public? Mitofsky must be made to respond to this call.

2) WE WANT TO CHANGE THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION! This needs to be said. And said loud. Yes, there are reasons why it should not be said by Kerry or even by Arnebeck. But, the people need to say it. I'm sick of this "we are not trying to overturn the results" or "in the spring, we will report our findings" or "there will be a bi-partisan investigation in January of February". We need to act now! Call to arms!

3) Where is the national news media? A presidential election is being contested. a congressional forum was held to discuss the election, where the term "fraud" was used many times. 99% of all "glitches" favor Bush. Blackwell was the Ohio Bush/Cheney co-chair. What, are these not newsworthy? Come on. THE MSM NEEDS TO STEP UP!

Kudos on all your work, Will. We all are in debt.

[Griffy]

26. We dont want change result.. we want truth

If that means Kerry won, then we want Kerry as President... what we wont except is stonewalling and stalling to avoid scrutiny of a highly suspect election. We must take every chance to frame this as democracy at stake... that fraud must be rooted out and exposed... not swept away for later study as after the fact studies. Florida taught us not to wait till after the election to count the vote.

[anamandujano]

83. correct--there is no "outcome" yet to overturn

only an misperception created by a preliminary count of glich-ridden tallies, of propaganda that is trying to bury the truth. as another poster said--why are they unwilling to get an honest count? what are they afraid of?

[nolabels]

16. KICK

:thumbsup:

I only have moral support banked up at this time but no real info, but I bet you find help from at least one person here that can help!

P.s I once got the booby prize in second grade for guessing the incorrect number of seeds in a pumpkin :dunce:

[nolabels]

37. And another KICK

The (dis)information would suffocate anybody not hip to the tricks. Need a another one of those MASSIVE DU projects, but on such short notice, it looks like a tough call vetting all the stuff.

Check the results from a google "Results 1 - 10 of about 2,680,000 for Vote fraud. (0.12 seconds)"

(We know Will can do it, just trying to act skeptical with the kick :freak: )

[rumpel]

17. That there are now recount efforts in other States

Alaska for one

[SueZhope]

18. More glitches favoring Bush

I think TruthisAll has come up with some
excellent analysis on that issue

[Griffy]

19. the duty of americas.. soldiers of democracy

the facts are good... but we need to demand that fraud be exposed before Jan 6th. Try to inspire people to tell others.. to march on washington... this is about the people in the streets.. the MSM is avoiding the issue.. we know the facts are there, a million on the mall would win the day... let the TRUTH shine in.... Ill be in DC and I bought a roll of orange fabric...

I would certainly layout 2000 and 2002 and our right to votehas been taken... casting a vote is not the end of our duties as americans.. maybe parallel the soldiers fighting in Iraq.. to the soldiers of democracy here at home... soldiers like women of the 20's fighing for sufferage, or soldiers of the civil rights movement, and we must be the soldiers of the voting rights movement! INSPIRE!

[anamandujano]

86. "casting a vote is not the end of our duties as americans"

excellent

[meganmonkey]

20. Plain and simple FACTS and EVIDENCE

There will be lots of talk about how important this is for democracy, etc. etc., but in order to convince the unconvinced, we need to start laying out the facts. Listing the examples of vote switches by machines, the statistical stuff - like the real exit polls' discrepency from the vote tallies. Statistics and facts. There are so many wonderful threads here compiling that stuff. While some of it is more speculative in nature, a lot of it is pretty concrete (albeit 'circumstantial' under close scrutiny)and we need to share it. That is what was missing most from the hearing, I think, and that is what can bring us credibility.

Good Luck, and Thanks for all your hard work!!!

:hi:

[Griffy]

32. we need to reach out to no logical people too

facts are great... talk alota facts.. but its just your word to them... but they will understand crime and how it must be investigae to clear the innocent and find the guilty.... I am an engineer and love facts. but we need a popular movement, balance facts and fellings... INSPIRE PPL to leave there homes and stand up for democracy!

[meganmonkey]

43. The 2 Fraud events I've attended so far have been FULL of emotion

and inspiration and anecdotes and that side of things. But the rally in Columbus could have used a lot more facts, same with the hearing Wednesday, from what I saw and heard here on DU.
I very much agree that people need inspiration - but I think most of the speakers at these events provide that side. I am saying we DO need balance, and it is the side of facts & figures that is lacking, particularly in relation to media coverage and overall public perception/credibility.

[regularjoe]

122. I agree, go light on the patriotic stuff and heavy on the facts.

It is a better use of time and people won't learn anything from hearing more appeals to patriotism.

regularjoe

[KaryninMiami]

23. Exit Polls, GAO Investigation Request, , Diabold history and

the connections between all of the e-vote machine manufacturers plus how easy they are to tamper with.

You might want to mention the "strange and disappointing" (to put it mildly) mainstream media coverage even though the problems were very widespread. Make sure they know that at this point, we are the media and it's up to all of us to get the word out.

For me the number 1 issue is the enormousness - we are talking about hundreds of thousands (maybe more) of people who may not have had their votes counted in the way they had intended. As a Floridian, we are especially sensitive about this- but as Americans, we all should be deeply upset. Remind them that this is not a partisan issue- it's about our constitution and about our protecting our democracy.

Bring facts about how many reports there were of voter irregularities, (poll problems, suppression, pre-election issues, disenfranchisement, etc.) The document handed to the GAO included 57,000 reports of voter problems- no small number.

Can you bring along handouts? If so, you might want to do a simple list of the top 10 links to learn more (we can send you these if you don't have them) so they can do their own research. Also include links to places they can donate, actions, email blasts, marches, etc. I carry a small stack of links where people can become more educated and become involved.

I'm sure you will be terrific! Boy are they lucky to have you as their speaker! Where is it by the way?

[anamandujano]

88. a plea to the world press

because ours has deserted us

'the "strange and disappointing" (to put it mildly) mainstream media coverage'

[bearfan454]

24. Will - basically I would like to hear

that bush got more votes than there are voters in a lot of polling places and counties. This is impossible ! Not just Ohio, but all over the country. Even Joe dumbass will realize he can't get more votes than there are voters.

Also Kerry was winning in Ohio and all of a sudden the numbers changed. They didn't call Ohio until late because KKKarl Rove needed to know how many votes they needed to change into bush's column.

[Griffy]

36. mention the exit poll computer "went down".. when it came back...

bush was leading... post story

[Malikshah]

27. How about this theme/meme

If everything was on the up and up...what is the fear of asking for a verified vote?

In other words...

What are folks scared of??? Are those against the recount scared of something coming out?

This is the theme I'm using with those who speak out against the investigation.

Also-- as mentioned by other more savvy posters

for those that question the money needed for said investigation-- mention the bill for the Whitewater "investigation."

Best of luck.

[KoKo]

28. Here is an updated link from the Voter Issues Forum...It's all there

I think. :shrug: unless there's something else you were looking for.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=201&topic_id=6166&mesg_id=6166

[Zan_of_Texas]

67. Hey Will.

The real threat to democracy is WMDs all right -- and we know where they are -- Weapons of mass disenfranchisement.

People need to remember that the real patriots are at these rallies, working to save our country not with guns, but with fairness and transparency.

As for facts, I would suggest that at least in counties where people did not have enough voting machines, there be a revote, not a recount. Thuggery of this sort will happen again unless it is corrected.

At Kenyon College -- you know, you were there in DC -- the student from there who spoke at the Conyers briefing said they had 1300 voters for 2 voting machines, one of which was broken part of the time. Normal allotment is 100 voters per machine. No recount can catch the voters who left, unable to wait 6 or 10 hours or more.

Is there a precedent for a revote? Yes. It will happen in Carteret County, N.C. because 4000 votes were irretrievably lost in the voting machine.

Here's that info.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Carteret County Says It's Ready For New Election

3:05 pm EST December 1, 2004
http://www.wxii12.com/politics/3962688/detail.html

RALEIGH -- An election official in Carteret County said the county will be prepared to let up to 24,000 people vote in a special election in January to determine the next agriculture commissioner.
The election was ordered by the state Board of Elections because the lost votes are greater than the 2,287-vote lead Republican Steve Troxler currently has over Democratic incumbent Britt Cobb.

But the decision for a special election could be appealed by the two candidates to Wake County Superior Court. Cobb's attorney has said state law leaves no option but to require a new statewide election to resolve the missing ballots.

Carteret Election Board chairman Ed Pond said many residents will be skeptical about using the same kind of touch-screen voting machines that failed to count 4,438 votes due to an unchanged setting in one machine. It's expected that the machines will have been fixed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carteret County voters to get second chance
December 01,2004

Barry Smith
Freedom Raleigh Bureau
Sun Journal
http://www.newbernsj.com/SiteProcessor.cfm?Template=/GlobalTemplates/Details.cfm&StoryID=18726&Section=Local

RALEIGH - Carteret County residents whose votes were lost by a computer - along with others who did not vote on Nov. 2 - will get another opportunity to cast their ballots. The State Board of Elections on Tuesday voted to hold a special election in the county for the agriculture commissioner's race. The date for the election has not been set. Votes from the special election would be added to those who voted on Nov. 2 and others whose early voting ballots were recorded by the UniLect voting equipment.

The action came after Democrats on the board were unable to muster enough votes to hold a new, statewide election in the race.
Board Chairman Larry Leake of Asheville along with Democratic members Genevieve Sims of Raleigh and Robert Cordle of Charlotte voted to call for a new election, as requested by incumbent Democratic Agriculture Commissioner Britt Cobb.

However the Republican board members - Lorraine Shinn of Greenville and Charles Winfree of Greensboro - wouldn't go along. State law requires that four of the five members must approve a new election before one can be held. The Democratic board members said that a new election was the only option they had according to the law. "I don't think anybody up here wants to have a new election," Cordle said. "But our legislature says that's the remedy."

<snip>

He compared their plight to voters who had received a spoiled ballot. "We know who got a spoiled ballot," Hurley said. "They should be given an opportunity to cast another vote."


<SNIP>

[Sick_of_Rethuggery]

30. The discrepancy b/w the raw exit polls and the actual votes...

This, I think, is our most important clue to the fraud: everywhere else, and here before 2000, exit polls are reliable enough to show up fraud -- why is it that, even in 2004, we use the same "discredited" exit polls to tout the "moral values" myth and yet the same are not good enough for vote prediction?

There were some very good graphics posted to DU -- let me know if you can't find them, I have stored them somewhere, I can dig them up.

As a scientist and a professor, to me the single most powerful argument for the right (our!) side is this discrepancy...

[satya]

31. No disrespect intended, but maybe "election fraud" instead of"vote fraud"?

as other DUers have pointed out, "vote fraud" seems to imply the voters did something wrong. Or has this been hashed out before, and I missed it?

[Goldeneye]

33. A poll showed something like 20% of the people polled didn't think

the election was fair. That means there are millions and millions of people doubting our election system and at the very least, voter suppression and other election irregularities need to be looked into.

[SaveAmerica]

57. I personally believe it's more than 20% n/t

[RaulVB]

34. Mr. Pitt:

Please, look at this Washington Post article.

What they wrote goes beyond the realm of circumstantial evidence. It must be investigated, IMO.

Thanks for your efforts!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23580-2004Nov3.html

[pilgrimsoul]

48. Will, thanks for asking!

I would love to see some serious attention given to the utter lack of checks and balances that have allowed this election (and many others, in my belief) to be stolen. It is unconscionable to me that this country has used voting machines manufactured by companies with direct Republican ties and which allow no transparency of results, and that state election officials such as Kenneth Blackwell are allowed to serve both as a partisan campaign chair and state elections authority. The conflict of interest must stop!!!

And Will, knock 'em dead, pal! You're the best!

[rainy]

38. Talk about how the upsets started in 2000, 2002, Max Cleland,

Hagel etc... The machines should be illegal because they leave no paper trail. If a vote cannot be recounted it is an illegal process because each candidate has the right to a legit recount not just another redo of a flawed machine. Remember in 2000 when 3 candidates won by 18181 or something like that? That is statistically impossible but no one really cared. It is getting beyond ridiculous that this is not making major outrage nationwide. The exit polls have been wrong in Dems favor for a few years, since we began using the illegal machines. If they make a mistake they cannot be checked this is illegal.

[anamandujano]

91. yes--all the repuke "come from behind" victories

the repuke miracle is old fashioned highway robbery.

they have been quietly stealing the majority in the senate and the house during the last several elections.

[BlueDog2u]

40. Hi William!

Although I am very interested in the Curtis story, I approve your decision to leave it in the background and stick to the more obvious and less controversial elements of the case.

I was very impressed by the story, recently recirculated on the DU boards, about the power outage at Mitofsky during the critical period of 11pm-1am Nov. 2. This incident, which was reported by the NYT, raises the hair on the back of my neck, esp. in light of the intense controversy generated about the significance of exit polls, the role of "weighting," and Mitofsky's generally rude and defensive attitude and the refusal to release the raw data -- along with the obligatory claims that the raw data is useless, so why should anyone want to see it anyway? Something is really fishy about all this. If I were following this story as a journalist -- which I'm not, being a lowly college professor -- I would want to pursue this issue of the power failure in much greater depth and detail. There's nothing definitive to it yet, but it just reeks. Something is rotten in the state of Mitofsky.

[truckin]

41. Changing Exit Polls on CNN

Will,
I picked up these CNN exit polls from DU so I cannot vouch for their authenticity but if you can verify them they make a great piece of evidence. SoCalDemocrat made some very important points about the changes in the exit polls:

I ran CNN's own numbers. It's impossible. Between the two screen shots below, exactly 57 more persons were polled. If every single one of them were female, and every single one of them voted for Bush, that would account for a 2.3% increase in the exit polling results for female voters. However, CNN shows a 6% increase for Female voters supporting Bush.

CNN has altered other exit polling data since I began tracking it and compiling evidence against the EVoting machines.

Thanks to DU member EarlG for grabbing these screen shots!

Kerry up 2 among men, up 6 among women.


At 1:41am they changed the results to favor Bush:

[flordehinojos]

42. will you be talking about the machines from hell that count the votes back

wards and there is no way to prove it? Is that what you mean by most recent updates from Ohio and elsewhere?

[davidlynch]

44. Use The Judiciary Committee Letter To Ken Blackwell As Outline

Will, I think the memo from the Judiciary Committee is a great, well-grounded guide. It lacks the "tin foil hat" factor.

[merh]

45. Consider the words written by pauldp

pauldp (133 posts)
Thu Dec-09-04 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
37. Saying we should "get beyond the last election" is kinda like...
saying "we should drive to Miami" except that your tires are slashed, there's no gas and the transmission's been yanked.

Gotta fix the car first pal.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x135741


Thanks pauldp! :yourock:

[Time for change]

46. Exit polls

In my opinion, the discrepancies between the exit polls and the official vote tally are the main reason why so many thousands or millions of us believe that this election was fraudulent. There are several good studies out there that make this point in one way or another, and I assume that you are familiar with many of them. The ones that I know of are the ones by Dr. Steven Freeman, Truth is all, and myself (study posted by my son, EOTE)

[Duncan]

47. Statistics and release of exit poll data

Freeman Tudey, Berkely Study, TIA study (not academic but probably can offer compelling numbers - posts on DU as TruthIsAll)

[Chili]

50. Thank you so much for asking...

I know you're only looking for #3, LOL! So maybe consider one of these three?

(1) The disgraceful voter suppression that took place in Ohio (my focus is Cuyahoga County because I live here) - I'm furious about the blatant shameless way it was done - no attempt to disguise it at all. And Blackwell just stonewalls us all with the smug knowledge that nobody (but us) cares enough to make an issue out of it. It's the 1950's all over again - right down to the silence from the media.

I'm updating this site right now to include more of jmknapp's excellent graphs:

http://shadowbox.i8.com/Suppression/ohio/ohiomachines.htm

(2) Election reform: desperately needed, with laws-with-teeth behind it to protect voter's rights. Kinda goes hand-in-hand with #1.

(3) That exit poll data. It's unbelievable that Mitofsky refuses to release what will be common knowledge in a month or more.

Sorry... got carried away, LOL!

THANK YOU!

[Helga Scow Stern]

53. Add to that the disenfranchised college students per Ellie Smeal. n/t

[WilliamPitt]

54. Can you expand on the Mitofsky thing?

That's an angle I haven't focused on yet. Thanks.

[bleever]

55. Mitofsky has refused to release the raw exit polling data, saying

that it's "proprietary". Also refused it to Conyers. At one point he said it might come out in six months or so.

All this in the face of the fact that exit polls are, of course, the primary method to guard against fraud in elections worldwide, that they have historically been tremendously accurate unless Bush is running, and that the exit polls in this election were very accurate for races other than president, and varied from the "actual" totals more in battleground states with the most electoral votes.

[truckin]

73. I believe that Mitkosvky said he was not given authority to release the

exit poll data. It is important to remember that Mitkovsky's group was developed by and is controlled by six major media companies that include CNN, Fox, CBS, NBC, ABC and the AP, I believe.

[Chili]

74. right, what they said...

Here's a link to the Conyers letter to Mitofsky asking for the release of the data:

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/mitofskyelecinfoltr12304.pdf

I think the request has been refused (I'm rummaging around for that article now...)

Thank you!!!

[BR_Parkway]

51. A few pre meeting full page newspaper ads with the 15 page letter from

Conyers to Blackwell would take care of a whole lot of people hollering "sore losers"

Seriously, that info needs to be reduced to 1 or 2 pages - hand out at meeting, media blast it to everyone, staple it up on phone poles and tape to storefront windows. I can't fathom anyone reading that and just shrugging their shoulders.

Thanks for the work you are doing on all of this.

[ClarkUSA]

56. Address the news lockdown on rightwing mainstream corporate media

And demand that the media in this country do their job instead of the Bush White House bidding. That can be a nice rallying cry to end on.

[FloridaCrat]

58. Gee, Will, I feel honored that you asked. Here are a couple of ideas:

Highlights of the Conyers hearing:
1) I would take highlights of the statistical work that has been done by DU'ers
and reiterate it for the benefit of the press, if there is any present.

2) A lot of younger people may not be familiar with Jesse Jackson's history
relative to the civil rights movement, Dr. Martin Luther King and the Selma
to Ohio statements were very powerful. His call for us all to act is important
so that the movement didn't end there - that we each have to keep up the
noise level and rattle as many institutions as possible. Voter suppression has
been going on for a long time - progressively worse since W's dad was VP
under Regan.

3)You could talk about all the people who testifed at the Conyers meeting.
The number of different groups that presented evidence at the hearing was
astounding. The synergy of the collection, represents a powerful force.

4)You could tell them about the shrub naming contest on DU. That would
leave everything on a slightly higher note - it's been so depressing
for the last month, I appreciate anything that elevates my spirits.

Thank you for all you do, Will.

[SaveAmerica]

59. Voter suppression is biggest in my opinion...

I like that you're focusing on 3, I thought you could state the 3 most important issues at the top of your speech then 5 minutes getting into the details of each of the 3 topics then repeating those 3 things at the end. (I'm all about keeping it simple for those who need one-liners, fill in with details for those who need that). Maybe pass out flyers with the top 10 voter issues from that thread and include DU's web address on it for further fact finding.
My top 3 would be:
1)voter suppression
2)conflict of interest/ SoS's need to hold back any progress, etc.
3)lawsuits to prove fraud

[Bethany Rockafella]

60. Please end your speech asking the question "Why were all the computer

problems gave the advantage to GWB and not John Kerry?" Thanks.

[roseBudd]

61. Warren County OH lied about Homeland Security threat and then barred

observers.

According to Doug Jones PHD

The Rights of Election Observers
Despite laws that require election officials to carry out their activities in public, there are stories from around the country of election observers being turned away from polling places or county vote tabulating centers. We need to insist that observers at the polling places be permitted to watch not only the voting itself, but also the pre-election setup of the voting equipment and the crucial activities involved in closing the polls and reporting the results.

Similarly, at county tabulating centers, we must insist on the rights of election observers to watch all crucial activities. Not only must observers be able to watch, but they must be able to understand what they are seeing. Watching someone count X-marks on paper ballots is easy enough, but as the work of vote counting has been shifted into computers, the ability of an observer to distinguish between the legitimate an the illegitimate has declined.

We can and should ask that at least some of the observers present at the tabulating center be able to watch what is on the computer screen when an election official or technician enters commands into that computer. In addition, we must ask that the observer be in a position to understand what is being done, either because an explanation is offered for each such command, or because the observer has been given access to the relevant documentation far enough in advance that they had a reasonable opportunity to learn what the commands mean.

I believe that many election officials will resist extending these rights to observers, but I am not convinced that overcoming this resistance will require legislation. Current law regarding the rights of election observers may be sufficient, but it may take good lawyers and fast work with injunctions to assure that election observers can do their jobs.

[Pooka Fey]

62. I strongly resent the fact that NO Republicans attended the Conyers

hearings. There are so many huge issues here, Mr. Pitt; and I personally think that they need to be distinguished from one another for the sake of clarity.

1. Integrity of the voting process - this IS (or should be) a non- partisan issue. I have already heard the Conyers hearings being dismissed as inconsequential BECAUSE only 'those WHINING democrats' were in attendance. I will be writing my Senator John McCain to discuss my disappointment and anger that he did not attend. Partisan election officials such as Kenneth Blackwell, and unverifiable voting machines produced by executives who contribute huge amounts of money to the Republican party fall within this category. If Americans cannot trust the voting system, then we have a democracy in name only.

2. Voter disenfranchisement - In 1870, Congress ratified the 15th amendment to the Constitution giving blacks the right to vote. One hundred and thirty four years later, blacks are still being systematically and deliberately disenfranchised. This is a crime. The Republican National committee kept "caging" lists of black voters who were targeted for challenges and harassement at the polls. Republican Kenneth Blackwell determined how the machines were to be distributed in Ohio, it was his decision to allocate too few machines in black precincts. Ergo - Kenneth Blackwell has broken the law and needs to be prosecuted.
I salute the Machiavellian genius in appointing a black man to disenfranchise black citizens. I have already heard the vehement argument that the 8-9 hour lines could not POSSIBLY have been premeditated, because the Secretary of State of Ohio is a black man, and how could a black man disenfranchise blacks? If there is one set of laws for those governing and another set of laws for the governed, we are well on the path to fascism. This cannot be swept under the table or dismissed. I refuse to allow my country to return to Jim Crow.

3. Actually, I can't think of point number 3, because I am sleep-deprived and I need to start studying for my French final in 2 hours. I hope this is helpful. Thank you for your dedication and tremendous efforts to this cause. You do every justice to your namesake.

Pooka Fey

[Celebration]

63. My opinion? Voting Cards Most Likely Getting Mixed Up

At precincts that voted in the same location. See this thread--

Here is a discussion of just one county in Ohio.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x106743

[anaxarchos]

64. Two Track Attack

Reverend Jackson laid out a very powerful 2 track strategy in the Conyers hearing:

1) "This election isn't over"... This includes most of the voter suppression and vote fraud issues so ably presented in these threads.

2) "Never Again" - a constitutional ammendment guarenteeing the federally protected right to vote... no to the electoral college, states rights that create thousands of seperate and unequal contests riddled with partisanship and corruption, etc.


This was a very strong way to overcome the "sore losers" challenge and reclaim the high ground. It is also critical to the survival of American democracy.

It deserves support.

[Sandy_0]

65. I may be way off

but it's been my experience that people don't really understand one of the major problems of this election. It may be one of the reasons why we've been called conspiracy theorists. It's just not easy for some people to figure it out for themselves. I've worked out the following simplified explanation that seems to work well. Possibly you could make the way the GEMS tabulator decided the election more understandable.

The Republicans didn't win any of the offices by any margin, nor did they lose. The same goes for the Democrats. It works this way. The kind of ballot doesn't matter. It can be paperless electronic (which has problems of its own), punch card ballot, optical scan ballots, other paper ballots, absentee ballots, military absentee ballots etc. ALL BALLOTS! The ballots were counted locally, in each precinct. Those totals were then sent to the Central GEMS Tabulator in each county from all the precincts. The totals were then tallied by the GEMS Tabulator which is a regular computer with a windows OS and if you have ever worked with a computer, you know how easily the final tabulation could have been manipulated. It has a Diebold program that allows the totals to be changed without a trace. The GEMS Tabulator tallies as many as two million votes at a time. These tallies are what wheres given as the final number of votes. Basically, as the exit polls were taken, the local precincts were able to add up the number of votes for each candidate and at that point the exit polls and the results agreed. It wasn't until the individual precincts sent their results to be tallied by the Central GEMS tabulator that a discrepancy occurred between the results and the exit polls.

Now for the "What do we do about it" part. With all forms of ballots, expert the paperless touch screen voting machines, there are still ballots that can be recounted. If those raw figures from each precinct are collected without their going through the GEMS Tabulator, the true results can be discovered.

Now do you get it? Many areas DID NOT use the touch screen paperless machines. There were a number of different types of ballots. There was NOT a clear mandate. Now, does all that make sense?

Nobody won. Nobody lost. The GEMS tabulator didn't just affect the outcome of the presidential race but those the house and senate as well. There was no mandate for any of the candidates. There was only what the GEMS tabulator said. The GEMS tabulator decided the election

[bardgal]

104. yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

exactly!!!!!!

[sunnystarr]

66. Would the American people accept millions of their banking

transactions classified as lost or spoiled? Would they make a deposit on faith, without record? Diebold also makes ATM machines and is able to have a record of each transaction. Why should we the people have any less? Why is it OK to have millions of votes lost and no one gives a damn? Why is it considered normal? Why are these spoiled votes encouraged in Democratic precincts? If a bank or a customer makes an error they correct it. For voters waiting 4 to 10 hours it's no big deal to discard their ballot.

Why are partisan SOS's like Blackwell who a chairman of the Bush campaign allowed to supervise the election process? To change election rules contrary to what was historically followed in order to favor his candidate should carry legal penalties. (provisional ballots having to be cast in precinct and not the county) He blatently tampered with a federal election and in other cases attempted to and was overturned by a court.

The allocation of voting machines in Ohio is clear election tampering and impacted only the democratic precincts.

I heard on Conyers hearing that there were Spanish speaking voters who were trying to vote in precincts without a Spanish speaking poll worker. They didn't know how to properly insert the punch card and yet no one showed them. Where were the instructions required by HAVA in Spanish for these voters?

[berni_mccoy]

68. That despite the fact that there is REAL HARD evidence

1. The media REFUSES, STILL!, to cover this issue... that only today is ANY credibility being given to this, and that the MEDIA is AT FAULT for not taking this seriously soooner.

And

2. We must NOT ALLOW THE ELECTION TO PROCEED. Congress must CONTEST the election and have approval from not just ONE Senator, but ALL Senators, lest they betray the democratic process our country was founded on. Any Senator that is more concerned with their next term in office more than our democracy had better support contesting the election, because THEY WILL NOT GET OUR VOTE on their next term, republican or democrat. This isn't a threat, this is how democracy works, and they need to know the millions of Democrats they represent who are SINCERELY OUTRAGED about yet another stolent election. We will not be quiet about this, and the wound will not heal until the truth is discovered.

[marions ghost]

105. Yes , I agree-- also...

1. The mainstream media must be held accountable for the November blackout. We have lost trust in the media completely.

2. EVERY senator should approve the federal investigation--not just one--if they care about bringing true democracy to America. (This concept met with widepread approval in another thread).

3. We do not accept the validity of the proposed "bi-partisan" investigation in January conducted by Rep. Bob Ney (R-OH), where problems with e-voting will be swept under the rug, and our concerns about our outrageously dysfunctional election system will again be denied.

4. The serial abusers in the current government depend on our agreement to continue playing the victim. They depend on our apathy
and depression. We must not waver in our demand for a complete overhaul of the election system. Mechanisms for real change must be in place by 2006.

[skids]

69. Mysterious Extra Trumbell County Absentee Ballots

http://fairnessbybeckerman.blogspot.com/#110262206424256453

This is big, as there's a paper trail here.

[livvy]

70. Comparison of the cry of fraud and the need for a fair Ukranian

election, to the lack of action in re: to our own election. Why is it unacceptable to have voting problems there, but ok to happen here? The hypocrisy of this drives me nuts!

[pattyloutwo]

71. agree with livvy

How can we support and demand free and fair elections worldwide when we don't demand them at home? This is not about whining or sore losing, this is about fair, fraud-free voting in America.

[Her Blondness]

72. Letter from House Judiciary committee to Blackwell?

You might already have it, but here it is:

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/ohblackwellltr12204.pdf

It sums up a lot of info about possible fraud.

[SnoopDog]

75. Just to enforce one idea..

Is the fact that most of *all* election irregularities went in favor of Bush. One could argue that if the split of problems were 50-50 or even 60-40 then that might be acceptable. But to have 99% of the problems favor Bush would indicate 'no confidence' with the vote.

Thanks WillianPitt for being there when we need you!

[anamandujano]

76. stop the clock

first the facts about gore winning florida and because of the artificial time constraint, the wrong person was inaugurated and has ruled for four years--against the will of the people.

we need to stop the clock and get it right this time.

[nmoliver]

77. Electronic Voting

William, I'd say these two:

1. Electronic voting is too vulnerable to tampering. It is not enough to call for a paper trail "in event of a recount". The Republicans can block, or stall, recounts. They will go to the US Supreme Court to stop recounts. They can make recounts illegal without a court order - then the judges can rule against recounts (as they have in Florida). They can hack the system beyond a margin of victory so that a recount can be made to seem unnecessary, and then ridicule the Democrats for calling for a recount.

Electronic voting is acceptable for UNOFFICIAL results for our instant-message society, if people want to waste their money that way, but OFFICIAL tallies MUST come from OPENLY TALLIED PAPER.

2. Arnebeck's point: In 2000, they inaugurated the "president" first and counted the votes later. It is not enough to do these investigations so that this doesn't happen "next time". It HAS happened next time. The only way to stop it from happening next time is to stop it from happening THIS TIME.

To quote Michael Ruppert: "Society must fulfill its obligation to protect the citizenry from future crimes and validate the integrity of the system by producing justice for crimes already committed. Criminal justice recognizes that criminals who are not brought to justice will commit more crimes."

The more these people are allowed to "make sure it doesn't happen next time", but get away with it this time, the more it will be guaranteed to happen next time.

[Carolab]

79. Will please include

the action alerts from the Progressive Democrats of America website.

And tell people volunteers and donations are needed for Ohio. It's gonna take a lot of bodies.

Thanks.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

80. Will, you have to devote a moment to get to people's hearts.

The man who stood online with the IV, and the woman whose husband died at home while she waited online for hours.

[Griffy]

103. ..and explain how it will impact THEIR LIVES ...

people dont take risks unless they see the reward...

[emcguffie]

81. well, my lowly opinion

Since I didn't do any of the real analysis -- my lowly opinion is that you have to make a quick case, by providing a list of anomalies, clearly. Anomalies and descriptions of suppression. But the evidence of fraud is what hasn't gotten out there well enough. And when I listened to the "forum" yesterday, I didn't hear enough of that. It was as if, well, gee, everyone knows these things, so...

But everyone doesn't. Lots of people gave up when some observations were "debunked", but the debunking was debunked, and a lot of people gave up and thus missed that part.

Pile up the evidence. "This many people reported trying to vote for Kerry and getting Bush..." here and there and wherever it happened. Versus, "this many people reported trying to vote for Bush and getting Kerry."

Maybe this isn't very helpful. But what I heard from the "forum" was a lot of people saying they weren't going to let it happen -- amen to that! -- and a lot that was very clear about how much suppression was going on. But there is some indication as well that there could have been FRAUD. That's what has to be brought out more strongly. It was there a little, but not enough. In my opinion.

[livvy]

82. I forgot to say, "Thanks for all you are doing!" n/t

[AntiFascist]

85. After watching the Conyers hearings....

it seems that future progress is hinging on the start of a criminal investigation. Any hard evidence supporting the need for a criminal investigation should then be featured.

Also, I don't know how productive it is to focus on Diebold voting systems with respect to Ohio in and of itself. I've read a convincing argument elsewhere that only 2 relatively unimportant (to this issue) counties used Diebold equipment. Since ESS equipment is also Windows-based, or so I've heard, it might be best to focus on that when it comes to electonic voting glitches and discrepencies.

[Emit]

87. Voter Disenfranchisement Report from EP

I posted this on another thread last night, but this has a lot of details. This is only a partial report on Election 2004:

ELECTION PROTECTION 2004
Shattering the Myth: An Initial
Snapshot of Voter Disenfranchisement in
the 2004 Elections

http://www.kintera.org/TR.asp?ID=M664076858922033103725...
<snip>
The following reports describe problems encountered by voters in the 17 states in which
the Election Protection Coalition mounted extensive ground operations. These states are
Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Michigan, Wisconsin, New Mexico, Illinois,
Colorado, Minnesota, Nevada, Missouri, Texas, North Carolina, Louisiana, Georgia, and
Arkansas. The state-by-state reports summarize and provide examples of the more than
39,000 complaints recorded to date in the Electronic Incident Reporting System (EIRS)
database as reported by voters and by Election Day volunteers in the field and on the
Voters’ Hotline.
This is a preliminary snapshot of complaints reported through the EIRS as of November
24, 2004. In 2005 Election Protection will release a comprehensive report of data
gathered through the EIRS. We will work with both statistical and social science
professionals to create a thorough analysis of the barriers Americans’ face throughout the
voting process, based on EIRS data, information gathered through public records
requests, and interviews and hearings with voters and election officials across the
country.
<snip>

<snip>
The following reports describe problems encountered by voters in the 17 states in which
the Election Protection Coalition mounted extensive ground operations. These states are
Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Michigan, Wisconsin, New Mexico, Illinois,
Colorado, Minnesota, Nevada, Missouri, Texas, North Carolina, Louisiana, Georgia, and
Arkansas. The state-by-state reports summarize and provide examples of the more than
39,000 complaints recorded to date in the Electronic Incident Reporting System (EIRS)
database as reported by voters and by Election Day volunteers in the field and on the
Voters’ Hotline.

This is a preliminary snapshot of complaints reported through the EIRS as of November
24, 2004. In 2005 Election Protection will release a comprehensive report of data
gathered through the EIRS. We will work with both statistical and social science
professionals to create a thorough analysis of the barriers Americans’ face throughout the
voting process, based on EIRS data, information gathered through public records
requests, and interviews and hearings with voters and election officials across the
country.
Examples of incidents here:
<snip>
(Florida)
We also received reports about optical scanners not working
properly and voters having to drop their ballots into a box to be
scanned later in some cases.
<snip>

<snip>
(Arizona)
voter reported that an individual was traveling to various polling
places and confronting minority voters and asking them if they
were citizens. He was asking to see their ID and had a cameraman
with him who filmed the encounters. The individual wore a black
tee shirt with "US Constitution Enforcer" written on it and a
military style belt that gave the appearance that he was armed.

<snip>

<snip>
(Ohio)
One entire polling place in Cuyahoga County had to “shut down”
at 9:25am on Election Day because there were no working
machines. It is unclear whether this polling place ever re-opened.
<snip>

<snip>
(Illinois)
A voter, who was one of the first people in line, reported ballot
concerns. When his ballot was placed into the machine, it came out
as "damaged." They gave him another ballot with the same result.
Every person after him had the same problem. The poll workers
put the ballots in a cardboard box.
<snip>

<snip>
(Michigan)
A voter complained about a jammed voting machine scanner. She
said poll workers instructed her to drop her ballot into a bin with
those that were already scanned. They were told they could wait
until the repair person came but they had already waited over 1
hour and 20 minutes.

• A voter reported that a Scantron tabulator was broken and people
were getting ballots & voting but votes were not being counted on
site. Poll workers told EP volunteers they would count the votes
later. Scantron was down for 2 hrs.

<snip>
(New Mexico)
EP volunteer reported that while he was helping an elderly man
with voting he witnessed that when the Democrat Presidential
candidate was selected, the Libertarian candidate would be
highlighted. The poll worker instructed on how to correct and the
vote was corrected, but the same irregularities were reported in
other area precincts during early voting with touch screens.

<snip>
(Wisconsin)
EP volunteer reported a discrepancy between a ward’s
machine vote totals and the ward’s count of actual votes. The
machine had recorded 982 votes, while the ward books showed
971 votes.
<snip>

[Higans]

90. We want our right to vote back.

no matter what any human says or does it will not stop this war machine. All of our rights have been taken away from us. we have lost our 14th amendment right to vote. it is obvious that the elections are rigged. I don't even think that the politishans care. I think they are perfectly happy to shread our constitution infront of us and there is nothing that any caring compassionant human can do about it.

Here is what is going on. they are using the devide and conqure method to conqure the entire world population. It dosn't matter who we vote for, and it never did. The machines with out paper trails are what the hackers are using to control everything. the government will never let an election reform bill pass. they will keep using a computer to steal our voice forever. here is how I know this.

John Kerry won the election. the 14th amendment of the constitution clearly states that if a portion of the population is disenfranchised, each state will have it's electorate reduced proporshunante to the amount of disenfranchisement. This applies to all 50 states. The People who have been disenfranchised is any one who used a paperless voting machine. the people who used machines that had a paper trail could have their votes recounted if
nessasary. The people who used Paperless machines could not have their votes recounted. Once the data is uploaded to the central tabulator, it is gone. there is just a select few people in control of the central tabulator. they have the liberty to decide the fate of every election. Im talking Presidential, Senete, the house of representatives, the govenors, even the mayors. in essance two or three people have taken the 14th amendment right to vote from the entire Human population.

If kerry had any balls at all this is the argument he would use.

The Senator contends that the use of DRE voting without an auditable paper record recording the intent of the voter denies these voters the right to vote and violates Section 2 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution and standards for fair and transparent elections. According to Section Two of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, the Senator argues that the representation for the states using DRE voting without auditable paper records be reduced by the proportion of the population of these states.

*Using the proportion of counties using DRE voting (given by
http://www.thestandard.com/movabletype/datadigest/archives/000499.php),
rounding up to the nearest whole number, disqualifies the following numbers of electoral votes for the following states:

Alabama, 1;
Arkansas, 1;
Colorado, 1;
Delaware, 3;
Florida, 7;
Georgia, 15;
Indiana, 6;
Iowa, 2;
Kansas, 1;
Kentucky, 8;
Louisiana, 2;
Maryland, 10;
Michigan, 1;
Mississippi, 1;
New Jersey, 12;
New Mexico, 5;
North Carolina, 6;
Ohio, 2;
Pennsylvania, 3;
South Carolina, 7;
Tennessee, 6;
Texas, 2;
Virginia, 5;
West Virgina, 1;
Wyoming, 1

Note that California voters in counties using DRE voting had the right to alternatively use paper ballots. Since this does not deny any voters the right to have their votes counted, California retains all of its 55 electoral votes.

This disqualification of electoral votes reduces the total of qualified electoral votes by 109, leaving a total number of qualified electoral votes of 429. This number reduces the majority to 215 electoral votes.

Therefore, the presidential candidates receive the following qualified electoral votes:

Bush/Cheney... AL, 8; AK, 3; AZ, 10; AR, 5; CO, 8; FL, 20; ID, 4; IN, 5; IA,
5; KS, 5; LA, 7; MS, 5; MO, 11; MT, 3; NE, 5; NV, 5; NC, 9; ND, 3; OH, 18;
OK, 7; SC, 1; SD, 3; TN, 5; TX, 32; UT, 5; VA, 8; WV, 4; WY, 2

Kerry/Edwards... CA, 55; CT, 7; DC, 3; HI, 4; IL, 21; ME, 4; MA, 12; MI, 16;
MN, 10; NH, 4; NJ, 3; NY, 31; OR, 7; PA, 18; RI, 4; VT, 3; WA, 11; WI, 10

Thusly counted, the electoral college gives Bush/Cheney 206 electoral votes and gives Kerry/Edwards 223 electoral votes, giving Kerry/Edwards a majority and the presidency of the United States.

* The proportion of counties using DRE voting without a paper record to the total counties of each state does not necessarily reflect the true proportion of denied voters, but lacking data for the total votes cast for each state with DRE voting I had no alternative. I would suggest that using the actual proportion of votes cast with DRE to the total votes cast in each state for disqualifying electoral votes would result in the same winner.

My calculations were correct. If the representation in Congress falls, so do the number of electoral votes, according to Article Two, Section One.

"Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress..."
(emphasis added)


"But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such state."


COMMON SENSE would tell you that equal protection means having all votes counted. BUT in Bush v. Gore the SC twisted the notion to suit its purposes just to install dubya in office. As Scalia bizarrely interpreted equal protection, it means having all votes counted in the same way with the same standards. It seems to me that Bush v. Gore actually supports your case since there are different standards for counting electronic votes and paper ballots.


The DRE machines without paper trails, when combined with the easily
compromised tabulation software, makes auditing the vote impossible. If you can't verify the votes when irregularities show problems with the tally, this effectively denies the right to vote of the portion of the population forced to use these machines. To this fact there is no argument.

Section Two of The Fourteenth Amendment is clear. Section One of Article Two of the Constitution is clear...

"...Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be
entitled in the Congress..."

The Senate of the new Congress will count the votes. The DRE machines make a true count impossible, thereby effectively denying citizens of their right to vote. We haven't even figured in disproportionate number of voting machines, "lost" voter registrations, surreptitiously denied absentee ballots, voting place misdirection and a whole slew of other well-documented dirty tricks favoring the incumbent. Therefore, this situations changes the representation entitled to the States in the new Congress. Of course, I can't speak for the process by which the Congress would depose Representatives or how long this would take. However, the situation does change the number of electoral votes entitled to each State in this election.

I admit this is all a legal quagmire, but it has (constitutionally) legal merit. It also avoids issues involved in a recount which the DRE machines make impossible.

Would it fly? I don't know. I imagine it would cause quite the scene. Could the threat of losing seats lead the States to rectify obvious problems in the electoral process? Could the threat of giving up seats lead Senators and Representatives to pressure Pres. Bush to concede?

Difficulties aside, could this scenario offer the only true means for saving Democracy? You decide.



Please see full descussion here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=77190&mesg_id=77190

If Kerry does not jump on this issue, and use it to spear head election reform, we the Humans will never again have the right to vote. because the Main Stream Media is controlled by the Government, they do every thing they can to hide this information. they sing the population to sleep with stories of Scott Peterson, or a pupy down a well. they will never admit that they took our rights from us.

Arnold will be president in 08 and no matter how any one votes it will not matter. Arnold will continue Bushes paturn of global domination. he will continue droping bombs on defensless populations. the perpetual war will never stop.

Humans will never be able to truly explore their universe and science if we keep pumping our money into killing people. If there was ever an issue that needed to be on any ballot for any human to vote on, we need to have the right to vote yes or no on war.

Now you tell me, should I give up? should I forget this information?
should I accept the Machine as my ruler? I have figured out how to break their little game. Eection reform is the only way to get our voice back but they won't let us talk about it.

EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE - Portion of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that prohibits discrimination by state government
institu~tions. The clause grants all people "equal protection of the laws," which means that the states must apply the law equally and cannot give preference to one person or class of persons over another.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/e027.htm

The Words of Dr. Martin L. King Jr.


I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed; we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal.

I have a dream,

that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream,

that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream,

that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today!

I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of interposition and nullification; one day right down in Alabama little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.

I have a dream today!

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain and the crooked places will be made straight and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together.

The words of Dr. Martin L. King Jr.
for full text: http://www.toptags.com/aama/voices/speeches/speech1.htm

If we the Humans don't stand up now for election reform, this computer may control us forever. Should I give up????

This is the scope of what we are dealing with is it a battle that we can ever win? Do you ever want to have Kids? that is what this is about. I want our children to have a voice. I want our children to have an education. I don't want our children to be forced to kill Humans. if the elections are not reformed I don't want to bring children into this world at all. I suspect that there are a lot of people who feel this way.

This is why the administration is spending 3.5 million dollors to teach Abstenance only sex ed. this is why they are trying to outlaw abortion. this is why they are trying to out law homosexuality. They are farming us. farming fresh bodys to drive their war machine. this is why they produce violent video games they are programing our children to kill each other.

Should I give up??? Now that I have finally opened my eyes and Witnessed reality first hand should I give up????? You say the word, and I will forget this issue, but don't expect me to ever want children. I am sorry that this is the way I feel, but I can't bare the thought that my children will be slaves just as I am.

[bruised]

92. editpollz.org

Just to remind you that some of the original exit polls that vanished into thin air are now on editpollz.org
SOME OF YOU OUT THERE MAY HAVE DOWNLOADED OTHER EXIT POLLS -I don't mean the latest ones that were changed to fit the declared results. If so we will gladly add them to those we already have on line.
Anyway get the word out that we are looking for more of those famous exit polls. Anyone have a copy of the national exit poll from about 7 pm on Nov2?
Thanks [e-mail]

[troubleinwinter]

94. Machine software

Voting machines running proprietary software programs, the source code has not been examined.

We have no clue at all whether the machines counted votes, switched them or faked them.

[lostnfound]

112. Programming courtesy of convicted felon Sr VP, software fraud expert

The fact that Jeff Dean, Sr VP of Diebold subsidiary that programmed the central tabulators, was convicted on 23 counts of fraud (planting backdoors in software?) is a good reality check for many who are too gullible.

[bardgal]

95. Why anyone who certifies votes is allowed to be on a campaign committee?

like BLACKWELL, when there is a clear CONFLICT OF INTEREST!!!!??????

[senseandsensibility]

96. Coming from a non geek

perspective, as will many in your audience, I find the most compelling fact to be that all of these "glitches" (or virtually all) seem to favor *. The odds against that happening unaided are mind boggling. Please get someone to spell out for you the percentage of these "problems" that favor *. I feel that this fact is the one being most studiously ignored by the MSM, for obvious reasons. IT WOULD CONVINCE PEOPLE, and everyone can understand it. Can anyone put this into a concise, fact-laden sound bite?

[bardgal]

97. Why companies making voteing machines are allowed to make contributions

to any kind of political campaign, person, or committee? When that is a clear conflict of interest?!?!!

E-voting just makes elections easier to steal. Most intellegent people can see that.

[islandspirit]

98. Big Favor

New at this - mostly an observer.
For me the #1 priority should be that we should LEARN from 2000 - where the person who took office for 4 years was not the winner of the election. Had we taken the time to count the votes, Gore would have been in office. It seems not that many people even know that!
With so many irregularities and investigations going on - not to mention important re-counts and lawsuits pending, how can be possibly move forward without taking the time to wait and have a thorough examination of the FACTS.

[bardgal]

102. WELL SAID!!!! n/t

t

[btyarbro]

99. My Take on the Hearing

I’ve already posted an article on this, which hits some of the most salient points, but, here are some additional, memorable observations: see http://www.politicalstrategy.org/archives/000905.php#905

From Jesse Jackson, Sr.:
"It's a subtle form of disrespect to have this conference, but have Congress do nothing. This can't be just a venting session."
"This election is not over yet."
"We need some action now!"
"We need Congress in Ohio now!"
"When Mr. Kerry left he took immediate scrutiny with him. He continues to say that it's over. It's not over."
"Children dying in Iraq. This ain't right."
"Why do we do so well in football, basketball, track, golf?"
"We can't have the poor people getting poorer machines. Rich people getting rich machines."

Jesse Jackson, Jr. argues that Bush v Gore state specifically that the constitutional right to vote is NOT for the right to vote for ELECTORS.

Jonathan Simon: downloaded the exit data when it was still “pure” Do you realize what is at stake? The ability to count the vote. . . . Put pressure on Congress and the colleagues who are not here. We can’t do that as long as they own the machines. He called the current election review a taxidermic model of democracy.

Mel Watt asked Conyers if we should ask the Republican Ch. to participate. Conyers says they invited the whole House. The response was self-evident: “entirely in the negative.”

From the audience: PAC on Re-defeating the President, reads from the Constitution: the basis of rep. shall be reduced: 550,000 cases that in the next Congress there would be fewer Reps. from FLA, OH, NC. “This is what we have to work with today.”

Sheila Jackson Lee, commits to the Ohio folks that “freedom is on the way,” among other things, calls for election officials and those who conduct them not be associated with any political party.

Fitrakis’s call for impounding one specific machine with the anomalies.

This brings up perhaps the most important point:

If we are to correct the problems, have we already missed the opportunity? Can we account to the American people for what happened? Can we recover the data? What do we do about those Ohio tabulations that were destroyed (in violation of the law) and are now irrecoverable?

Finally, we need to learn from the Bush Administration’s strategy of using “perception management”: As Robert Parry writes, describing the current administration’s use regarding the Intelligence issues: “’Perception management’ – also known as “public diplomacy” – is a propaganda strategy for controlling how a target population views political events. . . . The next step will be the continued management of the perceptions of the American people. As U.S. intelligence agencies sing along to Bush’s tune, the propaganda will be amplified through the vast conservative media echo chamber. The mainstream press can be counted on to join the chorus.”
So far the SCLM (so-called liberal media)has virtually ignored the 2004 Election issue: the next move is make sure they don’t.

[spotbird]

100. Visualize, white, rich, fundamentalist, voters

systematically required to stand for hours in the rain to vote. Not just in one ward, but all over the state. Then go on to imagine that scenario with a Kerry victory. And the Kerry campaign manager also in charge of counting the votes.

Would the suspicion about the credibility of Kerry's victory cease to be the lead story in the news before his inauguration? Before his reelection campaign?

[ailsagirl]

101. kick

[LiberalAndProud]

106. Stress the party bias of the voting machine makers: Triad, ES&S and last

and least Diebold.

Stress:
Means
Motive
Opportunity

[txindy]

107. Hypocrisy of the US questioning Ukraine results vs. acceptance of our own

Our admin. demands action in Ukraine based on exit poll vs. election results disparities, yet we are supposed to blindly, and without question, accept the same disparities in our own elections.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

108. Are you speaking in Boston?

I'm bringing the whole famdamily with me and a bunch of friends who all think I'm a little tapped at this point - can't wait to hear you! Thank you for all your hard work William Pitt!! :hi:

[KatieB]

114. Bush Administration funding exit polls for Ukraine but we can't

get access to the raw exit poll data here because networks won't turn it over.

2. Mass Media lockdown.

[Debbie13]

115. The Secretary of State Blackwell Connection is important,

isn't it? (Sorry if this is a repeat I did not see the posting.)

You guys are more expert at this than me, but I remember reading:
1) He tried to stop the recount.

2) He is a Republican and seems to involved and bi-partisan with the election) I believe he was also associate chairman of the re-election campaign of
one of the presidential candidates (Mr. Bush). so there was a conflict of interest.

(Snipped from DU forum: "International standards are very clear: Elections officials should have NO political agendas. Need any of us be reminded what Kenny Blackwell's job was? How about Katherine Harris'? They both work(ed) for Bush while simultaneously presiding over their states' electoral process. How is it that such obvious partisans are allowed in such positions? Why were both able to single-handedly decide the outcome of a national election?")

3) Didn't he meet with Bush on Nov 2nd election day?

I was just trying to put some information about Blackwell together. I'm sure there's more and others here will tell you.

[fasttense]

116. You may want to include this info from Ohio

Blackwell locks out recount poll observers.

http://fairnessbybeckerman.blogspot.com/2004/12/blackwell-locks-out-recount-volunteers.html

[Donailin]

117. For the Love of God, Will,

please start off your address with a plea to Kerry to come out of the closet and lead this fight. Without the voice of the leader (the man who is rightfully president-elect if we are to believe that the elction was stolen), this will simply not get the nationwide attention that is necessary to affect change in anything, let alone a fair recount in Ohio.

I know this is wishful thinking on my part, but without major public attention/particpiation/protest, this issue will stay right where is; under the radar --where the republican party wants it.

[berni_mccoy]

118. FRAUD! COVER UP! FRAUD! COVER UP!

Take this to the hearing as well please Will!!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x140551

They can not be allowed to HIDE THE FRAUD!!! WE MUST STOP THEM!!!

WE MUST RALLY THE CITIZENS TO UNITE AND MARCH ON COLUMBUS!

[the ether]

119. WE NEED ONE SENATOR TO BACK UP THE HOUSE

To context the votes. I think you should bring this up again and again, until people start seeing the possibilities of contesting the election.

[helderheid]

121. Someone with good info

Is Alan Walden (he stopped by for dinner last night on his way through town). Here is an article that he wrote that's been published in several papers:

http://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/Story.asp?ID=4688

It's a must read for ALL DU-ers. He told me last night he has even more information and is happy to share it. He's on the road but has e-mail access:

[e-mail]

Here's his blog:

http://frogblog.journalspace.com/?cmd=displaycomments&dcid=620&entryid=620

Please contact him!

[suston96]

123. Talk?

How much more talking are we going to do?

The Ukrainians did not talk.

They acted and they won!

Blackwell in Ohio just shut down the recount!

Are we gonna just keep talking about it?

[WilliamPitt]

125. So why are you sitting at a computer?

[suston96]

126. Sitting?

I am sitting in Arizona and it's a long way to Ohio.

But if they get something going up there I will join you.

Where is the best place to do a Kiev style roundup?

[ClassWarrior]

137. In front of your own damn city hall or statehouse!!!

Cripes, you're talking about Ukraine. They didn't wait for someone to "get something going up there." They just acted. So fucking ACT.

NGU.

[Vote4Kerry]

124. Clint Curtis! Mention that he has signed affidavit about vote -rigging!

Inform the public that we have people coming out in sworn-affidavits attesting to vote-rigging!

[WilliamPitt]

128. No

See original post.

[mattclearing]

129. Find out what Arneback's smoking gun is. Don't tell it, but use it...

to inform what you are saying. If Monday is indeed sea change day, you will want to be ahead of the curve. You should see if you can get in contact with him.

[stella2cat]

130. have you seen the 'Blackwell Locks out Volunteers' thread? n/t

[Joe Chi Minh]

131. The elephant

still in the living room is the impossibility of such a skewing of the "malfunctions" and voter repression in favour of a neocon victory being attributable to any cause other than fraud, plain and simple, Will.

[John Q. Citizen]

133. Will, it seems to me that putting the "movement" into a

personal, regional, national, and international context is the Keynote thing to do.

Your job is to inspire and rally the people and to inform and educate as to the history, the current state and to the future of the movement.

Another way of looking at it is that you supply the macro view and then allow the other speakers to deal with the micro view.

[IndyOp]

134. Will - Tell them there ARE enough votes to overturn this election!

In your "Selma" article you indicated that you were frustrated that there wasn't more evidence presented -- me, too! To get the energy moving communicate that there are more than enough votes to overturn the election:

ES&S AND TRIAD IMPLICATED IN KERRY/CONNALLY DISCREPANCY
Ellen Connally, an African-American supreme court candidate running an underfunded race won a greater percentage of votes in her race than John Kerry did in his in many Ohio counties. Kerry, as the presidential candidate should have a higher percentage than Connally because most voters have the priority of casting a vote for president. Connally ran better than Kerry in areas where she wasn't known and did not campaign! In the 15 counties in which the Connally margin is 5,000 better than Kerry's, Connally's margin exceeded Kerry's by 190,437 votes.

TRIAD MACHINES PRODUCE MORE BUSH VOTES THAN EXPECTED
Only in the 41 Triad punch card counties did Kerry not get as many votes as Gore in 2000. In punch card counties with other manufacturers Kerry got more votes than Gore in 2000, in opscan counties Kerry got morevotes than Gore in 2000, and in DRE counties Kerry got more votes than Gore in 2000. If the Triad counties had voted similarly to all the other counties combined there would be a net Kerry gain of 101,926 extra net Kerry votes.

MORE AT:
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=137414>

[Name removed]

135. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IndyOp]

136. Will - Also, Blackwell locks out recount volunteers...

Blackwell's office stopped two recount volunteers on Friday from examining/copying records -- they now say that voter records are 'not public documents'

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x140551>

:grr:

[StephanieMarie]

139. My Humble Opinion

The bar charts from Truth-Is-All showing the agreement between the exit polls and the "official" vote count in paper ballot states and the complete disparity with the exit polls in DRE states was the first thing that really hit me on the head and said "The election was stolen". I truly believe that Bush's vote was systematically padded in all 50 states to give him the popular vote, and definitely stolen in FL and OH to give him the electoral vote. What I want you to do is to raise the question of BOTH the electoral vote AND the popular vote. Be bold, and thank you!

[Cookie wookie]

140. Think the Lone Star Iconoclast

put the heart of what's happening into words eloquently:

"Ohio - Ground Zero

(snip)

During the month of December, Ohio has become ground zero, where rests the survival of democracy as we know it, for this will be the test of whether America will stand for an election riddled with irregularities.

The test will determine if the true spirit of honest elections will continue to exist in America or if honesty, like respect and cooperation, has become a dinosaur.

Although the battleground in Ohio might be described as one of abstraction, lacking the smoke-filled sea of asbestos and lead that was ever present at ground zero in New York, its pungency is just as caustic because this battle will determine whether democracy will gasp its last or reign as an icon of truth."

http://www.iconoclast-texas.com/Columns/Editorial/editorial48.htm

[bywho4who]

141. Rejected by local news outlets

I live in Richmond,Va the NBC local news outlet has a call in service that they regularly tout called 12 ON YOUR SIDE(ch12). I called them 3or 4 days after this current fraud(04 prez vote) to ask why they were not covering all the fraud. And that I had been reading about it for days on the net. They hung up in my face! Now my ? is who is your in (12 the on your side).

Not that I think my experience is top of the list but I am concerned that more people are being silenced in the same way.

Do us proud Will Pitt

Thanx Mike