If Volusia is invalid - does that do something to the certification?

[bmoney07]

I saw on an earlier thread that 59 precincts in Volusia have no record of the votes or have lost the polling tapes/records.

Does this make Volusia Invalid?

Could this have an effect on the certification?

Sorry if this has been covered, but I am unable to find the thread or get an answer to these questions.

Angry Floridian.

[Pacifist Patriot]

1. I'd like to see the answer to that question.

Another Angry Floridian.

[jamboi]

21. Well, it doesn't contest the election if that's what you mean. From

what I read not only is it too late for that (technically speaking the deadline has passed -- very small window of time!!!) they have a very high barrier of proof required. Like you have to demonstrate a possibility that the election was flipped in order to get a recount. But that doesn't stop the congress from refusing to accept their electors (not that a Repub. dominated congress is going to do that).

[bmoney07]

2. Anyone care to answer this?

n/t

[EMunster]

3. please?

[bmoney07]

4. I guess everyone's head is in Ohio

We forget that New Mexoico, Nevada and Florida are still being reinvestigated/recounting.

this is an important question and i will keep kicking until someone can answer this

I feel that it is an important question.

[tex-wyo-dem]

5. Do you have the link to the DU discussion that said this?

I guess I haven't heard this yet. Please link it so we can discuss since this sounds incredible!

A lot of this sort of thing depends on state laws governing election rules.

[DeminGa]

6. bump

I believe this is important also!
I havent heard of this before...any links to the story or additional info would be appreciated

[bmoney07]

7. Here is the link to the latest pres from 12/09/04

http://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/Story.asp?ID=4732

Here is a copy of the second paragraph - hence why I posted my question. Please let me know what people think.

According to Pynchon's suit, 59 of Volusia's precincts – nearly one-third of them – are missing the printouts that the optical-scan voting machines produce to ensure accuracy. All those precincts, Pynchon says, are missing either the results tape, the "zero tape" – at the beginning of Election Day, poll workers print a tape that should register all candidates at zero votes to make sure no one got a head start – or the required poll workers' signatures on one of the above forms. Volusia County election officials deny that the records are missing.

What kind of effect could this have on the certification of Florida and does this lawsuit have to be completed by next week or at the very latest when Congress oopens the Electoral votes on 01/06/04?

Please let me know.

:)

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. Yes it should make the results in Volusia County invalid

The tapes are one of the few checks and balances that were build into the system to verify the numbers. Without the tapes, the SOE can not verify the totals. If the SOE certified the election knowing that the tapes didn't match or were missing, then he/she should face criminal charges. However, in Jeb's world, she'll probably get a promotion.

[november3rd]

9. It would take a big court fight

The vote has already been certified.

[bmoney07]

12. Duh

but does the fact that you can not verify the votes bring into the question of the county/state certification and therefor the presidential election.

How can a cerification hold water with out validity?

[trillian]

10. Dunno

But, Volusia went blue. Do we really want to change that outcome?

[bmoney07]

11. It doesn't matter what color it is

What matters is Florida cerified the election, how can a certification have merrit if the votes of a said county can't be verified, and if you can not validate this then does that make the certification invalid for the county and entire state?

Basically could 1 county's validity make the whole thing null and void, I am asking for someone who might know Florida law to check into this. I think that it might affect the overall election.

[electropop]

13. There is nothing which will affect the certification

If Jesus W Christ himself announced that Florida is a fraud, they would not decertify. However, the certifiers may end up in jail and Bush may end up in Crawford.

[bmoney07]

14. So no court in the land has the power to overturn the certification?

That seems strange, what about if proof is brought to Congress's attention that the Florida/county election is not valid based on findings of a court all before 01/06/05. This court's ruling would have no standing??

This is why I am asking these questions because I am not gifted in what Florida law says.

Someone with some Florida law experience please look into this.

[electropop]

15. No court has the cahones

...yet, and of course the Supreme Cronies would overrule them anyway, but eventually the pressure will push stronger for justice than against it and we will prevail.

[DeminGa]

16. small point

Something to note maybe....

I dont think it matters whether or not a county went 'blue' or 'red' You win a state by the vote TOTALS. All the numbers all get added up at the end of the day

A few thousand here, a few thousand added votes there, and you pull into the lead in the state. For vote fraud to work you wouldnt need to WIN every county, just close the gap in the counties that you would normally lose by a large margin!

Thats why I think its a mistake to only look at individual counties for recounts. If the election was stolen, I think it happened little by little and in places where one might not think to look

[bmoney07]

17. Doesn't it say something in the constitution about that all votes shall be

counted?

If you can not validate or count all of the votes then how can a certification have a legal footing, and if the certification is basing its numbers on the counties that report the votes then does the whole state's election would have to be rexamined if there is proof that Fraud took place in 1 or all of the counties.

This wouldn't call into question the validity of the Florida certification? I mean after all the certification did include all of the counties and if 1 of those counties has Fraud prooven what does that do to the overall validity of the certification.

One would think that they would do a couple of things, 1 throw out the county in question and just include the other counties ( this wouldn't help us) 2. call into question the validity of the certification and therefor all of the counties would have to be re-examined (this might/would help us)

Remember Congress just needs proof that the validity of the certification/electors has been called into question by proof of Fraud. Proof that would be brought forth by a lawsuit and a court's decision. I know that the Florida Supreme Court was Deomcractic in 2000 I am not sure now, and the high court would in all likely hood rule 4-4 with the absence of Rhenquist.

Sorry that I am beating this horse, but I think that it deserves some examination.

[FreeCajun]

18. KICK!

Go back to the source of our woes: Florida. I hope it does!

[bmoney07]

19. Anybody out there with knowledge of Florida election law?

If there is please read the whole thread and please put your thoughts to this line of questioning.

Maybe this is purely academic - but I hope not!

[myschkin]

20. kick

[BrklynLiberal]

22. See if you can get thruto Randi Rhodes.

1-866-303-2270