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Don't vote for the war criminal Labour party, vote LibDem instead

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jfern Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 02:34 AM
Original message
Don't vote for the war criminal Labour party, vote LibDem instead
There's no way the Tories will win, so you can safely vote against the war criminals who agreed to the Iraq war no matter what in July 2002.
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 03:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. I keep wondering who I'd vte for
I'm a UK citizen but havn't really lived in the UK for over ten years so I tend not to vote, there is absolutely no way I could vote Tory but I doubt I could vote for the guy who did the most to make the Iraq invasion/occupation "respectable".

I think it'd be the SNP for me, but without preferential voting I can see why people would be nervous about a "third" party vote.
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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. The SNP? Do you believe the U.K. should be broken-up?
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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 03:10 AM
Response to Original message
2. It'd be a dangerous game in Tory/Labour marginals and thus self-defeating
although it'd work in LibDem/Tory and LibDem/Labour marginals.
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aneerkoinos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Vote your consciense, vote LibDem
With any size of Labour -> LibDem swing, the danger of Tory governement is as real as Saddam nuking UK in 45 minutes.

Why believe anything Blair says, including his attempt to frame the situation and scaremonger with Tory Gov. BBC swing-o-meter shows that it would take about 15% swing to LibDem to produce a hung parliament, no chance of Tory Gov.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/election/comment/0,15803,1474791,00.html
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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 04:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. The "choice" for me is between a Labour MP and a Tory MP
Edited on Mon May-02-05 04:23 AM by Anarcho-Socialist
it's going to be the former.

My conscience is with the Green Party and they're not standing in my constituency.
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non sociopath skin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Yes, vote LibDem - if your conscience said "Once the war starts
Edited on Mon May-02-05 05:18 AM by non sociopath skin
... I'll back it," which is what the LibDems did. They were NOT anti-war. If you listen closely to Charles Kennedy, they still aren't.

If it's a conscientious objection stance, then you need to vote Green or Respect or, where available, a consistently anti-war Labour or Tory candidate. And accept that the result may well be a Conservative government.

The Skin
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aneerkoinos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Sure, ABB
Anybody but Blair. Green etc, as long as you don't vote pro-war New-Labour candidates. Voting LibDem gives the best chance of a hung parliament and best guarantee that Blair is put away.

And I don't accept your scaremongering, the chances of a Tory gov are from nil to minuscule.
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. I wouldn't be voting in a marginal though
very little of Scotland is anything close to marginal and they sure aren't gonna be voting Tory any time soon.

Technically the UK is already "split" it's not one country and given the EU I don't see much need for a "kingdom" - but I'm a republican and a Scot so my bias may be rather rampant
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mr blur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
5. For the first time ever I won't be voting Labour
I know they've done a lot of good so on the one hand it's a tough decision; on the other hand I won't have my vote contributing towards Blair being able to say that he "has a mandate" from the people and that we either forgive him for his actions or that we don't care what he did. He's yet another "religious" person whose conscience seems to have taken a back seat behind his ambition. Bliar has learned much from Bush, it would seem, but the last thing we need in the UK is a President.
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non sociopath skin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 05:11 AM
Response to Original message
7. It is IMPOSSIBLE for the LibDems to win the election but ...
... at this point it is only UNLIKELY for the Tories to win. This could be changed by a dramatic split in the non-Tory vote and a large number of abstentions.

At the expense of repeating myself, I'd point out once again that the LibDems have always been happy to work with the Tories in Local Government and people rule out the option of a Tory-LibDem Coalition at their peril. It would make a lot of sense. Vince Cable and the "Orange Book" libertarians would have a lot in common with the Howard Flights of this world who are jockeying for position when Caretaker Howard steps down. I've seen the LibDems in action and Groucho's quote "These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others," would make an excellent strapline for them.

(By the way, can we stop calling the LibDems the "Anti-War" party? They began as anti-war but switched to pro-war when public opinion swung that way then back to anti-war when the aftermath went pear-shaped. "The War Opportunist Party," would be more accurate. )

I have no time for Blair but he is a busted flush. At a time when we should be concentrating on his succession, we run the real risk of sleepwalking the UK into a racist neocon government.

For fox sake, THINK!!!

The Skin
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Concerned Prude Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. good points
Edited on Mon May-02-05 12:34 PM by Concerned Prude
Charles Kennedy seems a nice guy, but not all his party is so nice, particularly the "orange book" dismantle-the-NHS crowd; Cable in particular is far more of a quasi-Tory than anyone in New Labour. And Kennedy has already said that he wouldn't prop up " government that lacked the support of the British people", which seems a pretty clear indication that if there were hung parliament but the Tories were the biggest party, he would at least stand by while they formed a minority government.
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non sociopath skin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Exactly so.
In the local government elections on the same day, my County, Northumberland, may well have the return of the Tory-LibDem "Anti-Socialist Coalition" which we used to have, complete with cuts in Local Government jobs and services in the name of "Good Business Practice."

The Tories and LibDems have worked together throughout the election, surreptitiously sharing out the wards so that only one or the other leaflets and canvasses any given patch in order to maximise the "Anti-Socialist" vote.

I'm sure their joy would be complete if their deal was replicated on the 6th by a parallel national coalition.

The Skin
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Guy_Montag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-05 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. What about the Labour/Tory coalition in
Hackney?

Seems that even the Labour party will go into local govt. with the Tories.

I consider local govt. completely seperate from national govt. Groups often form to remove the incumbants, just to give people a change.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
10. It does depend where you live
I'm in a LibDem/ Tory marginal, so I would vote LibDem for tactical reasons in any case. I do think that the LibDems are better than New Labour.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
11. Sounds like the Tory campaign theme.
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T_i_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-05 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. Oddly enough...
The Tories are trying the same trick of telling people that "a vote for the Lib Dem's is a vote for Labour." I just wonder why people can't just ignore all this tactical bollocks and vote for the best candidates with the best policies personally.
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fedsron2us Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
12. Depends where you live and who you want as MP.
Edited on Mon May-02-05 12:22 PM by fedsron2us
The Lib Dems have some policies such as Proportional Representation for future ballots which I like. Unfortunately, my actual experience of them in local government is bad so I shall be voting Labour in the Council elections. My vote in the General Election is still up for grabs but as I live in a relatively safe Tory seat it probably does not count for much. All I know is that it won't be for the Conservatives and it won't be for Blairite New Labour. I am afraid I do not accept the argument that its better to vote for Mussolini than Hitler. If anyone wonders why I support Labour locally but not nationally it is simply that I feel the need to support the grass roots of the movement whilst expressing my contempt for its current leadership.
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Concerned Prude Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. No thanks, I'll stick with Labour.
I work minimum wage and would rather support the party that intorduced it than a party who opposed it. I do agree with some Lib Dem policies, particularly on taxation, but fundamentally I think Labour have done a decent- by no means brilliant, but decent- job over the last 8 years. And I really could not bear the thought of the Tories sneaking in the back-door after the 18 years of hell they put us thorugh last time they were in office. I'll vote labour and look forward to Gordon Brown taking over the reins a couple of years down the track.
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T_i_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-05 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. The Liberal Democrats did NOT oppose the minimum wage
They actually support it! In fact I can very clearly remember that in the 1997 general election it was one of the issues my local candidate was pushing in a big way. The said candidate ended up winning Sheffield Hallam with a swing of around 17% from the Tories!

It was only really the Tories who opposed the minimum wage and that seemed to be one of the big factors that meant that people were not willing to consider them in 1997.
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