Fellow Soviet Canuckistanis: Which federal party will get your vote?

[tuvor]

And why?

Having a Reform (Oops. Ahem, "Conservative") MP, I'm voting for whomever has a better chance of ousting him. (His victory in the last election was very narrow.)

I'd prefer to vote NDP, but if doing so means I'm giving a Reformer a better chance of representing me, I'm going to vote Liberal. Given the results of the last election, I'm afraid I'm going to have to go with the latter.

The list below represents ten of the twelve federally-registered political parties. Because of DU limitations, I'm forced to exclude two parties, so I've decided not to include the Christian Heritage Party and the Marijuana Party. (Don't like it? Go get your own poll! :))

[CHIMO]

1. We

Are supposed to vote for a rep not a party. Much too much influence from south of the border here.

[tuvor]

3. I disagree.

In either country people choose to vote based on the candidate or the party (or some combination thereof)--what we're "supposed to do" notwithstanding. I don't see it as an American-influenced issue at all.

And odds are, whomever you vote for will belong to SOME party.

Besides, I don't know how else to post such a poll with only ten options.

[Hand]

2. NDP...

It's a slam-dunk; I'm in Alexa McDonough's riding. :toast:

Also the Communists don't run a candidate...

[achtung_circus]

4. I expect tp vote NDP

unless it seems that that would result in vote splitting against Reform, in which case I'll probably vote Liberal.

[glarius]

5. Unless you want to chance electing Harper and his pro-Iraq war

sentiments, vote Liberal....We really don't have much to complain about in this country...DON'T FORGET....Harper went on Fox TV and apologized on behalf of Canadians for us not joining the Iraq attack!....HE HAD NO AUTHORITY TO DO THAT....He has such an arrogant and controlling personality who would have us in any other mischief Bush gets into in the future....IMO

[iverglas]

6. whew, and so it starts -- Vote Liberal *or else*

... the bogeyman will getcha.

I live in a riding that the Conservative Party does not have a snowball's chance in Windsor of winning.

Why in bloody hell would I vote Liberal, when what I want is for as many NDP members as possible to be elected??

Strategic voting can make sense in some situations. Unfortunately, your advice that everyone Vote Liberal!!! without even contemplating the possibility that their vote might actually have helped elect an NDP member without the slightest risk of allowing a Conservative Party candidate to come up the middle sounds strangely like the kind of scare tactic that a Liberal might employ in order to amass votes that the Liberals couldn't get any other way.

Mm hmm ... "We really don't have much to complain about in this country" ... I wonder who might be heard to say things like that ...

Okay with you if I complain about Paul Martin failing to live up to Liberal campaign promises?

[Telly Savalas]

17. And if one lives in a riding where the CPC candidate is assured 3rd place?

[TrogL]

21. What riding?

[Telly Savalas]

27. Most ridings in the 416 are like this, I believe.

[SnowBack]

70. Voting NDP here in California!

Hopefully my last out of Canada vote... Moving back home next summer...

Beaches-Danforth-San Francisco riding (OK, so I added on the SF part...)... Libs might take it, but not with MY vote! NDP for me!

[Spazito]

7. Seeing as I currently have a faux Con rep and it is the NDP

candidate that came close to unseating him in the last election, I will be voting NDP. If it had been a Liberal who would be the most likely to oust the faux Cons from this riding, I would vote Liberal. My focus is keeping the faux Cons out of power rather than voting a party vote do or die.

[TrogL]

22. What riding?

[Spazito]

24. Southern Interior

Jim Gouk is our current MP but he is not running again so the NDP candidate has a very good chance, imo, in taking the riding. He nearly defeated Gouk last time, there was a difference of only 700 votes and Alex Atamenenko was relatively unknown at that time.

[glarius]

8. I repeat.....voting Liberal in THIS election is one way of assuring that

Harper and his right wingers won't get in....Despite the attack on me from another poster here....
P,S...I don't think I've ever seen this person post anything that wasn't an attack on someone....

[tuvor]

9. You could say that about any party.

I mean, everyone voting for the Marijuana Party would also ensure that Harper won't get in.

If your intent is to vote to keep Harper et al out of Parliament, some ridings would be better served by one's Liberal vote, some by one's NDP vote, and perhaps others would be better served by voting for yet another party.

[glarius]

11. I see what you are saying, but I really believe that if we want to assure

the defeat of Harper, voting Liberal will mathematically do the trick....Realistically, the other parties don't have a chance of winning the election....:)
By the way, I don't belong to any political party and have voted for all three, Liberal, NDP, and Progressive Conservative (before they were taken over by the right wingers) in the past.

[iverglas]

13. allow me to bore you some more

if we want to assure the defeat of Harper, voting Liberal will mathematically do the trick

And so will voting Communist, as has been pointed out.

No matter what party one decides to vote *for* in an effort to ensure that another party does not get enough votes to win a seat, one is relying on other people voting the same way.

Ditto for trying to ensure that another party does not get enough votes to form a government. A multi-party system is really just one big game of rock scissors paper, eh?

Realistically, the other parties don't have a chance of winning the election....:)

The DO have more than a chance, they have a CERTAINTY, of winning particular seats. THAT is "winning the election"; forming the government is a completely different matter.

Are you suggesting, maybe, that if the NDP wins 30 seats in the house and neither the Liberals nor the Conservatives wins a majority of the seats, the NDP will use its 30 seats to install a Conservative Party government?

No? Then what would be your problem with people in each riding voting for the candidate they perceive as most likely to defeat the Conservative? How exactly do you respond to Spazito? Perhaps another silly face?

You might want to stifle that yawn this time; flies are looking for a warm home for the winter.

[glarius]

14. Your lectures are sooooooooo boring!

Don't you get it?....I really DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR OPINION is....on anything....
As for the flies, you're so boring, I just couldn't stop myself from yawning....It's a chance I had to take....So far, I'm fly-free....

[iverglas]

15. gosh, guess what

Don't you get it?....I really DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR OPINION is....on anything....

That pretty much sums up what I feel about people who demand that everybody vote Liberal (or, you know, make any other bizarre demand, especially when it involves ridiculing or vilifying everybody who doesn't comply) and just don't seem to be willing/able to offer the least whiff of a reason for it.

Well, no, there's more, quite a bit more ... but oh well, I'm pretty bored too at this point.

[glarius]

16. Who pissed in your corn flakes?

That's it....I'm done....No more from me.

[AX10]

65. Vote Liberal!

[Telly Savalas]

66. Why?

[iverglas]

10. goodness gracious me

I don't think I've ever seen this person post anything that wasn't an attack on someone....

Whereas that, of course, would be ... hmm ... an effusive bouquet of praise, and nothing but a strictly accurate description of facts?

I repeat.....voting Liberal in THIS election is one way of assuring that Harper and his right wingers won't get in

You've heard of "tautologies", perhaps?

Going to the right is one way of ensuring that you don't go to the left ... but if you happen to want to go straight ahead, you haven't exactly accomplished much, have you?

Some people think that repeating things and making snide nattering noises about people who disagree with them constitutes discussion.

Others think that if people are going to make claims, let alone emit urgent directives based on them, they really oughta be prepared to back up what they're saying.

There is no reason in the world for me to vote Liberal. I don't WANT a Liberal majority government, and there is NO risk of a Conservative being elected in my riding if I do not vote Liberal. I have no intention of voting Liberal, and I'd really like to know why you insist that I must.

I've experienced this up close and personal. In the 1988 federal election, the Liberals ran this kind of scare campaign. I was the candidate for the NDP in a riding that had never elected anything but Liberals, and seldom by anything less than a majority; they could have run the proverbial corpse and taken the riding. Now in fact, I had received twice as many votes as the PC candidate in the preceding provincial election. But my share of the vote declined by 1/4 in the 88 federal, precisely because people were frightened into voting Liberal by the totally fictitious spectre of a PC win in that riding. Utter nonsense, and utterly deceitful.

Gosh, that does look like an attack on Liberals, doesn't it? Funny, though, how it's actually a characterization of their actions backed up with the facts that show the reasonableness of that characterization.

Now if only someone would give me some reason to vote Liberal in the next election when I don't want to ...

Keeping in mind, perhaps, that I DID vote Liberal in the last Ontario provincial election, for the first time in my life, and despite the nausea it caused me, for precisely the reason you advance.

See? Like I did say: strategic voting can be sensible. I say: strategic voting if necessary, but not necessarily strategic voting. Now I wonder what makes "Eek! the sky is falling! vote Liberal!" more worthy of consideration than what I (and not just I) have said.

[glarius]

12. Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z

:boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring:

[V. Kid]

20. Good posts, I like how you kept...

...logical while that guy was running at you flailing, it seemed like you were his big brother holding his head back with your hand while he was going "eh eh eh". ;-)

[iverglas]

26. eh eh eh

That must be what the three stooges would have said if they'd been Canadian. ;) (That just sounded like a bit of a stoogey scenario there, y'see.)

The flailing has become epidemic in this bit of internet turf, sad to say.

[CanSocDem]

112. You're absolutely right.

It was close, out here in Sk, in the last election. Myself and many others gave our votes to the Liberals and we ended up losing some long standing and well respected, New Democrat MP's. But... we kept the right wing from gaining any more strength in the west.

This time it's different. I hope I 'm not wrong, but it feels like the traditional NDP voters are back this time 'round....

Sorry Glarius.....It's time to vote your conscience. Look what happened in the USA when voters were seduced by less than their hearts desire...

[Lautremont]

18. I'm voting NDP

Thanks for your input anyway, Glabius.

[V. Kid]

19. Haha, I agree it was quite intresting.

I really love the way the internet does that, people think they're being cute, witty, or actually making a point. Yet, they're simply entertaining us with their ridiculous logic-free outbursts.

In any case I live in a riding where the Conservatives aren't in contention. Not only that, I don't like the Liberal (or Liberal Party for that matter). Therefore c'est NDP pour moi.

[iverglas]

23. interesting

I only see one of the poll-takers who say they'll vote Liberal actually putting their name to their vote.

Count up the actual verbal reponses in posts, and the count looks quite a bit different ...

[Telly Savalas]

30. Not being a citizen I can't vote.

But if I could, it'd definitely be NDP. The Tories ran a distant 3rd in the last 2 elections in my riding, so the cheesey Liberal strategic voting blackmail tactic doesn't apply here.

[iverglas]

32. hee hee

It's such an easily exposed tactic, ain't it? Bogeyman, bogeyman! Over there, look over there!

Anybody watch that BBC sketch comedy show with the guy who does all the characters, like the lumpen high school girl and the only gay man in the village -- and the hypnotist? Look at the eyes, look at the eyes, don't look around the eyes, look at the eyes, you are getting sleepy; nobody ever did, but they pretended. For some reason, people are always too eager to look where the Liberals tell them to look, and get all sleepy, and fall for the whole big shtick all over again.

It's almost possible that it's starting to be recognized for what it is. It was one thing for me to be standing at people's doors in 1988 (in that grossly, flabbily Liberal riding where all we wanted was to get our deposit back, i.e. get 15%) patiently trying to explain that the Conservatives had never won the riding, would never win the riding, had no chance in hell of winning the riding even if the Liberal and I split the rest of the vote right down the middle ... and then have them listen to the media and get all petrified about four more years of Mulrooney and go quaking in their boots to vote Liberal. Maybe this time somebody they actually listen to, like on the teevee, will tell grab them by the lapels and make them look.

[Ken Burch]

82. Canadians I have heard from on a left-of-center Canadian message board

told me that the "vote Liberal or we'll all die" tactic gave the Tories five seats in B.C. that would otherwise have gone NDP. None of those five seats would have gone Liberal under any circumstances.
They also said this cost the NDP a seat they had previously held in Saskatchewan(another Tory gain).

Beware of strategic voting.

[SidDithers]

69. I'm voting Liberal...

I'm in Oakville, and the dipper candidate has just a bit less than zero chance of winning the riding. I have voted NDP provincially in the past, but never federally.

That said, I'm not at all impressed with Layton defeating the government. What was so bad about waiting until the Gomery inquiry was done?

Sid

[LeftistGorilla]

25. NDP looks good.....

But Ken Dryden gets my vote...again

[jim3775]

28. My riding is one of the most solid red districts in the country

Thunder Bay has always voted liberal, and I mean that historically too.
I just looked this up:

1935-1974:Lib
1979, 1980: LIB
1984, 1988: NDP
1993, 1997, 2000: LIB

There is no serious conservative contender here, I doubt anyone in town knows who David Leskowski is (hell, I didn't know).

I like John Rafferty the NDP candidate, the NDP was slightly competitive last time I could very easily vote for him. I am very impressed with the NDP, and even though it wont make much of a difference here I will be voting for them.

[HEyHEY]

29. NDP - I live in Stockwell Day's riding

So, like there's no way anyone but him will win, and I just can't vote Liberal this time around.

[PM Martin]

31. I will vote Liberal, of course.

We must NOT let Steve Harper in. He's another George W. Bush.

[iverglas]

33. excellent!

Well done, Mr. Martin. Of course, you need to work on it a bit. I don't think you would really be heard saying nasty things like that in public about Mr. Bush; you'd have to fire yourself from Cabinet.

It's an excellent meme, and I'd admire it for what it is, if it weren't just such a fine example of cultural imperialism all by itself, and I do so hate that. No, Virginie, this is not the US, and Alberta is not Texas, and Harper is not Bush, and the Canadian right is not the USAmerican right ... no matter how much you continentalist Liberals would like us to believe that Canada doesn't have anything of its own, even its own villains.

[HEyHEY]

38. Could you be a little ruder to people?

It's their right to vote how they see fit. You may not agree, but it doesn't call for this kind of crass behaviour.

[glarius]

39. I couldn't agree more with what you say!

I think of this forum as a place for opinions and suggestions....Not pit bull attacks....:)

[iverglas]

42. I'll take pit bull attacks

over toadying.

If you have something to say to me, feel free.

I'm of the (I know, bizarre) view that internet forums are places for discussion. Not for spewing opinions and expecting the rest of the world to shut up.

You haven't managed yet to respond to the rather significant number of people who pointed out the baselessness of your claim that we must all vote Liberal or else. It was obviously pretty transparent to more than just me.

Anyone who so blatantly engages in that kind of tactic, in an effort to influence how people vote, an endeavour that should be undertaken with integrity and good faith and sincerity and honesty, out of respect for the principles of democracy and for the people one is addressing, and then doesn't respond when called on it, has no lessons in manners to give me.

Any time you're ready, now. Why was it that we should all vote Liberal?

[ClusterFreak]

45. Vote any way you want....

....glarius would like to see the Liberals returned to power.
So she's a Liberal. You appear to be an NDP supporter. So vote for an NDP candidate in your riding, and help them keep the Liberals from forming a minority or majority. So do it. Everybody will vote the way they want.

Nuff said.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iverglas]

52. now there's an argument

Get some help ... venom ... unstable ... scary ... yup, I recognize that; that's democratic political discourse all right.

[glarius]

54. Get a grip sweetie!

[HEyHEY]

48. Odd..

"I'm of the (I know, bizarre) view that internet forums are places for discussion. Not for spewing opinions and expecting the rest of the world to shut up."

Considering you do that all the time.

[iverglas]

59. I just love an unsubstantiated allegation

I'm of the (I know, bizarre) view that internet forums are places for discussion. Not for spewing opinions and expecting the rest of the world to shut up.
"Considering you do that all the time."

Care to name once -- like, with a reference and a quotation -- when I have ever done what you allege? (I'll be interested to know how you deduced what I expect, of course.)

And while you're at it, could you please quote one of those "personal attacks" you allege I've made?

Maybe you could go through this thread, identify and quote all the personal attacks you see here, and then tot up the totals under the names of each poster responsible for them. I'll be fascinated to see what you dredge up and call a personal attack made by me, and how many others by anyone else you might choose to ignore along the way.

Put up or ... oops, I guess you know what does come after that.

[V. Kid]

43. Ahh...

...then why are you insisting that every one VOTE LIBERAL regardless of where they live? Isn't that pretty authoritarian (read something that capital-C conservatives do)?

In any case its already been asked. So bye for now.

[iverglas]

40. could you get a clue?

"PM Martin"?

[HEyHEY]

47. That would make a difference if "PM Martin" was the first person

You'd been rude to

[iverglas]

53. it would make a difference

if "PM Martin" was the person I was talking to, and if my comments to "PM Martin" were what you had commented on. Oh look, it was, and they were.

But hey, telling everybody to vote Liberal or else ... and refusing to respond to anyone's questions about the advice ... that's the height of good manners.

If people don't want to hear objections to their "opinions", they really oughta stay out of the kitchen.

Ever noticed me question someone's sanity in response to what s/he has said? Integrity, maybe so. Knowledge of what s/he is talking about that would qualify him/her to have an opinion worth listening to, could be. Critical thinking abilities, just perhaps. But never ever without addressing WHAT THE PERSON SAID, you may have noticed.

Like I said, I know what a bizarre notion that is. Say something, expect that someone will disagree with it, and RESPOND TO WHAT WAS SAID. Or stay home, would be my advice.

[iverglas]

41. oh and by the way

It's their right to vote how they see fit.

Who the fuck said it wasn't?

It's the right of Republicans in the US to vote as they see fit, too. Notice anybody hereabouts being nicey-nice to Republicans in the US?

It's my right to speak as I see fit. And I see fit to call Liberal bullshit what it is when I see it. (In this particular case, I saw a bit of a joke. You apparently didn't. Perhaps I was wrong.)

I have had little to say about how anyone VOTES. What I have expressed disgust with is how various people TRY TO GET OTHER PEOPLE TO VOTE THEIR WAY.

I consider the behaviour of Liberals trying to scare the bejeezus out of everybody in sight, claiming that Canadian Conservatives are Trojan horses for the USAmerican right wing and blah blah blah blah, and that we all must trudge out in a snowstorm to vote Liberal because to do otherwise would be no less than unpatriotic, to be extremely unseemly. I consider this whole thing to be a very tired and very dishonest Liberal campaign tactic. Consider what you like.

I don't swallow things that make me puke. Everybody else is free to swallow whatever enormous whoppers s/he can eat, but I'm just as free to name what I see.

[V. Kid]

44. The thing about being patrotic is quite intresting...

...since its the reverse tactic of the radical-Republican right in the US. They claim that those who don't the way they vote are anti-American. It's really quite un-becoming to see that used in Canada. Besides, at least the Conservatives are more honest about there agenda. The Liberals are not. Brian Mulroney may have brought in the GST, but who kept it? And the list really goes on and on.

[HEyHEY]

49. ANd I call bullshit hypocrisy

You're sitting there knocking one person for "trying to get people to vote their way" when you're using the exact same tactics and throwing in personal attacks. Get a fucking grip.

[V. Kid]

50. I'm sorry dude but I call bs on you...

..especially when you look at people like glarius. They use that sort of "patriotic" bullshit to get people to vote their way, they say voting NDP will let the Conservatives in, regardless of the Liberal record. Regardless of the riding that ones in.

For instance, with regards to you. If anyone was to defeat Stockwell day it would be an N-dipper. The NDP won the riding that was equivilent to yours back in the late 80's and granted the Zalm was the Premier, nonethless and extremely unpopular, but the Liberals would NEVER WIN that riding, but that authoritarian Glarius was INSISTING that EVERYONE vote Liberal. Don't you thinks that's total bullshit? Iverglas, may be strident, but Iverglas wasn't saying VOTE NDP OR ELSE. The only people who were doing that were people like Glarius (and if Maple was around...), and it's really quite insulting.

[glarius]

51. I'm NOT an authoritarian...NOW SHUT UP AND DO AS I SAY!

Do you want me to sick my grandmothers club on you?

[HEyHEY]

56. But that's a politcal difference

Personal attacks are not required, which is what my point is.

[iverglas]

58. you might want to direct that "point"

where it belongs. That wasn't MY message that was deleted.

Oh, and another by the way. Has anyone noticed ME telling ANYONE here HOW TO VOTE?

I didn't think so.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=190&topic_id=9035&mesg_id=9042
"vote Liberal"

[CanuckAmok]

107. I was going to say NDP, but now I'm with anyone who will kill you all.

n/t

[Domitan]

34. NDP

I voted Liberal last time, because I really respected Joe Fontana who represented my riding. But my heart is more into the NDP this time.

[laundry_queen]

35. I haven't decided yet.

Either Greens or NDP - although my vote is probably a moot point - Jay Hill is my MP and he usually wins in a landslide.

30 feet of snow couldn't keep me away from voting though. :P

[achtung_circus]

36. Okay, who voted for Reform. I want a name. nt

[Mother Jones]

37. I picked Liberal... Sorry I didn't explain why earlier....

I've only said it a dozen times here now... :P

I live in a rural red-neck riding where the cons VERY narrowly beat the Libs last time. Not only will I be VOTING Liberal, in an effort to beat this fatass idiot (sorry, I really dislike him), but I'm also going to volunteer to help out with Verona Jackson's campaign.

While she's a Liberal, she's also a very strong, intelligent woman, respected in this community and I admire her.


Of course, this said, I'm still soooo jealous of those who can vote NDP and have it matter! We have some of the poorest communities in Ontario in this area and I don't understand why the NDP aren't even in the running out here.

ETA: To be clear, this does not mean I want a Liberal majority....I will be quite happy with a Lib-minority, but I do hope the NDP pick up more seats this time around.

[arikara]

55. I have just learned a big lesson this week

after the provincial NDP who I strongly supported climbed into bed with the campbells and unanimously voted themselves a huge pay raise when the workers are all getting 0, rollbacks or canned. I'm starting to believe that the big parties are all the bloody same. Therefore, if there is a candidate running in my riding for the Canadian Action Party in the federal election I will be voting for them and no more holding my nose and voting strategically.

http://www.canadianactionparty.ca/Main.asp?Language=English

[yvr girl]

57. I don't know

Hedy Fry (L) is my MP and I can't stand her. I also HATE the fact that we haven't had a viable national opposition since the PC party splintered. The only thing that keeps a government in check is the fact that they might lose the next election. We knew about the sponsorship scandal prior to the last election but that only netted us a switch from a majority to a minority Liberal government.

I think it would be good for the Liberals to spend some time on the Opposition side of the House, but I don't want to promote any other party to the Government side.

How about....Democrat?

[tuvor]

61. At least it should be an interesting race with Svend.

Isn't he running against her this time?

[yvr girl]

62. I hadn't heard that

He was my MP when I lived in Burnaby.

[tuvor]

68. He may be your MP yet again!

This time, Mr. Robinson, 53, said he was bringing a new perspective to his new riding. When voters in Vancouver Centre, now held by Liberal MP Hedy Fry, meet Mr. Robinson campaigning this election, they'll be seeing a humbler man.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20051128/SVEND28/TPNational/Canada

[HamiltonHabs32]

60. Green

Just so they can have the 75 cents, Hopefully during my lifetime a group of fellows like the Green party can get into power.

[LeftistGorilla]

63. Ken Dryden

so Liberal...

[Harper_is_Bush]

64. Depends on the polling near election time.

If the Liberals look like they're going to form the government, I'll vote NDP.

If the Conservatives look close, I'll vote Liberal.

[V. Kid]

99. Don't forget the riding though...

...if its a NDP vs Con race, and you vote Liberal then you'll only help the Cons.

[Canadian_moderate]

67. Another Liberal vote here

I've always been PC or Liberals. Since I live in Toronto Centre I'll be voting for Bill Graham (Liberal) to avoid having the local NDP nutcase as my MP.

Sadly, I fear the NDP even more than I fear Canada's Conservatives.

[V. Kid]

71. Luckly your vote isn't relelvent, as the Liberals will win that riding...

...easily.

[iverglas]

77. ah yes

the local NDP nutcase

Somebody says it, so I suppose nobody's supposed to challenge it. I mean -- it's an opinion! it's sacred!

The nutcase in question:

http://www.michaelshapcott.ca/

As a senior policy analyst with an urban health institute based in our riding, Michael works with community-based groups, academics and researchers, government officials, politicians and policy-makers on positive solutions that benefit the people of Toronto - and Canada.

As a board member with the Toronto Environmental Alliance and a founding member of both the Low Income Energy Network and the Ontario Smart Growth Network, Michael is taking action for a clean and green city.

... "Michael Shapcott is perhaps the country's top housing policy activist." John Sewell, former Mayor of Toronto

I dunno ... I've actually known more than my share of nutcases, and that doesn't quite fit the profile.

Maybe you have access to his medical/psychological records, and you can enlighten us.

Maybe you weren't calling Shapcott in particular a nutcase; maybe you meant that he was just the local example of the body of nutcases that comprises the NDP.

Maybe then you can explain what you're doing hanging around here ...

[Canadian_moderate]

78. remember Bread, Not Circusses?

Shapcott is a wanker. BTW, save the lectures for another day. I'm off to bed.

[glarius]

79. Wasn't Shapcott the jerk who put up the big fight to keep Toronto from

getting the Olympics?

[V. Kid]

80. How dare he try to engage in a debate...

...the freak'n SOD! The audacity. I'm sure he's the reason Toronto didn't get the Olympics. I'm sure the IOC didn't think they should finally go to the most populus country on Earth because they hadn't had an Olympics yet.

Michael Shapcott, nutcase extrodinaire (for expressing his opinions).

When will people learn, expressing contrarian opinions is just awful. Right?

[Canadian_moderate]

83. He also fought against the 1996 Olympics

Which went to Atlanta. Toronto was the favourite for that one, but the pessimist activists screwed us royally.

[Mother Jones]

87. Wasn't the push back because

the city was gonna sweep away it's homeless in an effort to 'sterilize' the city?

I thought I recall that being the major issue. (from an activist perspective, that is. I know there were other issues too)

[Canadian_moderate]

89. Sweep away or find shelter?

Any olympic village development would generally make more housing available after the event.

I guess Sydney, Australia must have been sterilized as well because I didn't encounter nearly as much homelessness there as I see daily in Toronto, despite Sydney's much more favourable climate.

[IntravenousDemilo]

102. As a matter of fact

I seem to remember reading that that's exactly what happened in Sydney prior to the Olympics.

[Canadian_moderate]

103. Almost 5 years later...

when I visited earlier this year (end of March and early April), there were still hardly any homeless.

[IntravenousDemilo]

104. Maybe the homeless are like trees

And reforestation takes time once you've clear-cut an area. But don't worry, the neocons will make more replacements.

[V. Kid]

94. Yeah, I'm sure there wern't any of those in other parts of the world...

...and I'm sure bribing IOC officials didn't count for anything either.

[glarius]

86. Expressing his opinions is great.....we should ALL do that.....

And....those of us who disagree with those opinions are free to say so....Right?

[V. Kid]

95. Are you sure you believe that? :-)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=190&topic_id=9035&mesg_id=9163

[glarius]

96. Where's your sense of humour?...Don't you recognize a joke when

you see it?....Hmmmm....How unCanadian!

Oh....I missed your little smilie in the subject line....I guess you did get the joke!:)

[IntravenousDemilo]

101. I think Mel Lastman may have had a lot to do with Toronto's failing bid.

If I recall correctly, at the time he was having another in his long series of meltdowns.

Anyway, I was of two minds about whether I wanted the Olympics here. On the one hand, there was the prospect of all those all those international athletes walking around Toronto showing off their awesome bodies, but on the other hand, given all the other things we need to fix up, the sooner the better, would we have been able to afford it? Olympic games don't have a great history of turning a profit.

[V. Kid]

106. So true...

...I mean seriously, refering to being afraid of going to Africa because he might have been "boiled in a pot" while the natives "danced around him"?!? Yeah, that's the way to rally support there, Mel. Especially when your main competition is a non-white city. :eyes:

[V. Kid]

81. Gah, like what-ever....

...your so boring. Can't you just smile and like, I dunno, like um vote Liberal?

BTW did you hear that Stephen Harper eats endangered baby monkey's? Raw!

Oh. My. God. That is soooo disgusting!

[Canadian_moderate]

85. I would never vote for Harper's Conservatives.

As tainted as the Liberals may be, we have very little choice. I've seen what NDP governments can do to the economy. Poverty for all! No thanks!

[V. Kid]

98. Yeah, they used the same consultants as Comrade Stalin right?

Lordy.

[CatBoreal]

72. I'm voting Liberal but...

I'm hoping for another Liberal/NDP minority.

I like the NDP on social issues, but don't entirely trust the fiscally. I feel the opposite for the Liberals, trust them fiscally (actually, I trust them fiscally more than I do the Conservatives who I think will just cut and cut and cut to make themselves and their Bay Street pals richer), not so much socially.

Liberals do have a social conscience, but it tends to get over-ridden by money. With the NDP holding the balance of power, they provide the conscience to the Grits, something they couldn't do with the Tories because they have no conscience, social or otherwise.

So, there ya go. Debate away!

[Canadian_moderate]

73. For those who voted Bloc Quebecois...

gt your own God damn country forum. I hate traitors even more than social and religious conservatives.

[glarius]

74. The new P.Q. leader says he won't abide by the "Clarity Bill".

I think our government should make it clear right now that the "Clarity Bill" is the law and WILL be adhered to...The separatists must NOT be allowed to trick the people of Quebec with another phony question like the last time...Polls taken after the vote showed that many who voted "oui" thought they would still be Canadian citizens....

[HEyHEY]

75. I voted Bloc once

I lived in Quebec and figured "I'll never get to do thi again!"

ANd let's not call separatists traitors, that's so... south of the border.

[JVS]

76. Oh, so you want them to have their own country forum but not a country!

FREE QUEBEC!

[Canadian_moderate]

84. They're free to leave

If Canada is divisable, so is Quebec. There are many parts of Quebec that are not in favour of separation. This includes many native-populated areas that contain much of Quebec's wealth of natural resources.

[JVS]

88. Why should they move to another country forum if they cannot...

have their own country?

If you want to continue the occupation of Quebec, then people who vote for the Bloc are just something you'll have to learn to tolerate.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[achtung_circus]

91. While I agree that Canada is not occupying Quebec

to say that Quebequois or Quebecers are not Canadian is out of line. My grandparents were as Canadian as you'd wish.

Cheap shot, knock it off.

[Mother Jones]

92. Well said!

Thanks for that.....I was a bit offended too. I loves me my Quebec. Can't imagine our country without them.

[Canadian_moderate]

93. Sorry to offend you

I also think Quebec is a lovely province and have met some great people there, however, I can clearly see that most Quebecers have very little allegiance to Canada. They are Quebeckers first and foremost. Trying to appease Quebec at the expense of other provinces will only further drive our country apart. There are rules for Quebec and there are different rules for all other provinces. I don't like the arrangement one bit.

[CHIMO]

100. Shucks

Missed something here.

But some of my best friends are...

Well I stopped beating my dog.

Say how about those guys on the east coast not flying the flag. Guess all them fellers up in Fort Mac should go home?

What about all them rednecks in Alberta. Suppose they should all move in with Cheney et al.

No end to this type of thinking.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SidDithers]

108. Didn't you get spanked enough...

the last time you tried to pass off your silly "occupation of Quebec" theory?

Still in favour of minorities not having the vote?

Sid

[JVS]

110. It is a cheap ruse to call the anglophones a minority

They are a majority in Canada, they have invaded Quebec and they continue to occupy Quebec. They should either be willing to let the Quebecers call the shots in their own homeland or get out.

[Swede]

105. I'm voting Liberal.

The opposition parties are gonna regret forcing this election.

[best left blank]

109. NDP

Being a leftist I don't support the conservative parties, even if they call themselves Liberal.

Besides that, Jack Layton is my MP.

[MapleHeart]

111. tried to vote

but says only those previously registered may vote.

Pity.

My vote would have raised the Progressive Canadian Party from their 0% showing.

Tracy Parsons, their leader is running in my riding. Didn't know that til the other day when I went to the Elections Canada website. She has no signs or anything around. My vote might be the only one she gets.

I'm actually pretty lucky here as I've got several choices other than Admiral Paulie's Party and the Republican Party of Canada. Besides Tracy Parsons of the Progressive Canadians we've got a New Democrate, a Green and even a Marijuana candidate to choose from. :-)

[Posteritatis]

113. Kinda fence-sitting

I'm one of those weirdoes who likes the idea of tactical voting. I tend to swing either Liberal or NDP, depending on how both parties are doing and the general tone of the election.

I tend to like weak Liberal majorities, with enough NDP pressure to keep 'em from pandering to the Conservatives too heavily. Since I'm in what's typically a Lib/NDP swing riding, I tend to go whichever way looks like it'll have the best chance of that result. I get the extra affirmation that my vote is actually worth something, since it's usually somewhat narrow between those two.

I'm also really goddamned sick of the attack-ad mode that Canadian politics has picked up since the 2000 elections; most of that's pretty much due to conservative pressure from both us and the US, as well, which doesn't help things. I literally haven't seen or heard one ad so far from any of the parties that wasn't entirely mudslinging. "Paul Martin eats children! Do you want your children to be eaten! Paidforbythecommitteetoelecttheotherguy" is only a small exaggeration of the type of stuff we're getting here. If I found a party that actually didn't obsess over attack ads through the entire campaign, they'd get my vote regardless of who they were just for the attitude, I think.

I'm not getting the buzz over the Greens, anyway; they strike me as the worst elements of hysterical Luddism and fiscal incompetence all wrapped up in one package. And, of course, the Conservatives are even worse. Though they're both relying on attack ads around here, so they aren't getting my vote by the above criteria anyway. ;)

[Canuckistanian]

114. NDP, as per usual

Just point me to the polling station.

[PDJane]

115. I will vote Liberal........

because the NDP candidate in this riding is not someone I'd trust with public office.