I think I know that odour.

[tuvor]

How does this smell merely of coincidence, and not of sneaky behind-the-scenes face-saving bullshit?

Layton said he found “the whole issue about debating about the debate” a distraction and he will debate May as long as Harper shows up.

Then Harper also changed his stance.

“We will not boycott the debate if the NDP wants her in,” Harper’s spokesman Kory Teneycke said.

http://www.metronews.ca/calgary/canada/article/110583

The NDP is pissing me off a lot lately. Perish the thought, but my vote might help the Conservative candidate win.

[HeresyLives]

1. It always does.

"If you lend Jack Layton your vote, you will hand Stephen Harper your country,"

[tuvor]

2. No, not always. My riding's a little different from most.

There's virtually no Liberal representation in Vancouver Island North, and in 2006 my NDP MP beat the Conservative candidate (my previous MP, who's running again) in a close one. The "lend me your vote" thing just didn't mean anything here.

If I vote Green (or anything other than the NDP for that matter) this time, there's actually a better chance that I'll end up helping to hand SH my country.

[Caradoc]

3. Former Ontario NDP

Once upon a time, the NDP stood for honourable principles that no other party would touch, but for me, here in Ontario, the landscape and the reality has changed. The Mike Harris years were so brutal, so arrogant and so anti-social that I felt I had no choice. And with Jack Layton, principles seem to have taken a back seat to a quest for power that can never be realized. Jack may well be presiding over the final days of the NDP of Ed Broadbent (what a fantastic guy!) and Stephen Lewis, a party whose personal honour and nobility helped achieve the kind of social changes that were in the best interests of all Canadians.

I have met Jack a number of times and I have no doubt about his sincere desire to make Canada a more just and fair nation. But the neo-cons are the greatest threat to our national identity and, yes, even sovereignty and they must be stopped here and now. The anti-social damage caused by a Harper majority will be virtually impossible to reverse. You and I know that Harper's real problem with the minority government is that he can't do as he wishes, namely dismantling Canada's uniquely successful 'third way' mix of social responsibility and market opportunity. The man's contempt for any ideas that fall outside his narrow neo-conservative ideology is frightening. I am convinced he would have us join the US if he could and with a majority he'd definitely get the ball rolling in that direction. I am dismayed that so many Canadians seem to have bought into his constant stream of already discredited 'easy answers to complex questions' that are the dark heart of what passes for neo-conservative 'thought'.

[snagglepuss]

4. Good post. Ever since Layton brought down the Liberals I am

totlly po'd with him. I'm a lifelong ndper but refuse to vote for him.

[Clintonista2]

5. my dad is the same way

My dad is an NDPer who votes strategically for the Liberals. He has no respect for Layton whatsoever.

[iverglas]

12. and what did this have to do with the post you responded to?

You would vote Liberal in a riding where the contest is clearly between the NDP and the Conservatives?

You don't seem to have said. You don't seem to have said anything other than to complain about the NDP.

You say: I felt I had no choice ... but to vote Liberal provincially? If so, I felt the same way. I voted Liberal in the election in which Harris was finally defeated, because that was indeed the single most important objective (the only time I have ever voted Liberal in many years of voting, although I did once vote PC federally many years ago for the same reasons), and I thought vote-splitting in my riding unwise.

I live in a riding that is currently held by the NDP federally. Is there some reason for me to vote Liberal in this election?

[Bragi]

6. I have the same problem

The Libs are nowhere in my riding, which is held by the NDp. In order not to elect a Con, I vote NDP, despite the fact that I don't have any time at all for Layton.

Such is life in a country where the majority of voters are centre and centre-left, but split their votes between 3 parties.

On this, I had a conservative friend say the other day that it was fair that the left has to split its vote to the benefit of the Cons now, since the right wing vote used be divided until it all came together under Harper.

The difference, however, is that the split on the right may have diminished their seat totals, but the right wing has always been a minority group in Canada anyway (and still is) so it's not like the will of the majority was thwarted.

Now, however, it is the majority of Canadians whose votes are split, with the result being we end up with a government that is actually opposed to the views of the majority of voters.

Which is totally depressing.

The only solution is either a) real organized strategic voting, or b) unifying the left centre left into a single party.

I'd go for option 2 in a minute, but short term the only thing that will defeat Harper is strategic voting by the majority of voters.

- B

[HeresyLives]

7. Do you think it likely

that the NDP and the Liberals will ever merge? Become Liberal Democrats or some such thing?

I don't see it myself.

[tuvor]

8. I'd like to see a more unified left, too. Maybe the best way to achieve that...

...is for him win a majority.

[HeresyLives]

9. Liberals have won majorities

before and there's been no movement. And being in Opposition together hasn't produced any camraderie either that I can see.

[snagglepuss]

10. SH? what is that short for?

Could it be sh*t head? :evilgrin:

[HEyHEY]

11. I'm pissed at them too and WILL NOT be voting for them provincially

This bullshit about reserving ridings for women and minorities is going too far. It's a perversion of democracy in my eyes and they've lost my vote over it. I guess I'm going to spoil my ballot cause there's no fucking way I'm voting for gordo.

[iverglas]

13. "“We will not boycott the debate if the NDP wants her in"

Huh. Where did the NDP say it wants her in?

The Conservatives will not boycott the debate if hell freezes over either, I guess.