"Webb County is corrupt"

[Avalux]

I had a discussion about the Cuellar/Rodriguez race with a very nice lady this morning. She's in her 60's and has lived in the area all her life; has been an active Democrat all her adult life.

She told me flat out that Webb County is and always has been "dirty" and last night, they simply waited to see how much Cuellar needed to give him the win then made up their numbers. There were no glitches; there were no problems; they just waited. She chuckled a bit after saying this, then added that even if Rodriguez tries to fight it, he won't get anywhere.

[derby378]

1. Isn't the actual cutoff time for voting at 7pm?

If so, that could be used to disqualify a lot of Webb County votes - if Rodriguez is willing to pursue it.

[Avalux]

2. Yes it is -

but Webb County has new machines and said they were having problems and that could be their out. I heard Rodriguez has sent his attorneys to Webb and will fight it - although last time he tried to fight it he got nowhere, and that was losing by a lesser margin.

[derby378]

3. "Many machines. new machines."

Sorry. Dune flashback.

Just another reason to call for these machines to be consigned to the scrap heap.

[efhmc]

30. In line at 7PM. We had a long line inside the courthouse at 7:15 when

I went for the precinct caucus but those folks were still legally allowed to vote.

[Freddie Stubbs]

4. If she has evidence of this, she needs to bring it to the attention of

law enforcement and the media ASAP.

[NoPasaran]

5. This just in: Fire is hot! n/t

[Avalux]

6. Ah. How funny.

And I suppose how silly of me to start this thread.

[NoPasaran]

11. Sorry

I've been rubbes pretty raw in the last day and the cynicism is just oozing out of me. Sorry if I offended.

[Avalux]

12. Hey - I'm right there with you; no offense taken.

After getting off the phone this morning with Rodriguez's campaign manager, I felt so completely helpless....I want to do SOMETHING but I don't know if it even matters anymore.

[Avalux]

7. Just spoke with Rodriguez's campagn manager -

He has decided to concede and not fight the results. End of story.

[acmejack]

10. That is just so sad.

The machine wins again.

[Freddie Stubbs]

13. Did he say why they were not contesting the results?

:shrug:

[Avalux]

14. Yes -

he said the number of votes is greater than last election and they didn't get anywhere then by contesting. He said it's impossible to fight Webb County; they will not cooperate. We discussed the new machines and possible glitches; he conceded it was possible they really did have problems but doubts it.

[Freddie Stubbs]

15. So he actually beleives that Cuellar won fair and square?

[acmejack]

8. I'm sure she is right.

See where it is. This is a lonesome area, it is kind of like it's own Country down there. always has been. That's how they run it too.

http://www.uth.tmc.edu/thssco/maps/webb.htm

[crispini]

9. K&R.

Just so others will know.

[MelissaB]

19. Thanks!

I wouldn't have known if this wasn't on the "greatest".

[WolverineDG]

16. Tell me something I don't already know

considering as how I live here.

I'd like to know more about your source, however. That was my initial reaction when I came home from the gym at 10 & found out they still didn't have the early vote count in. However, there were also at least 2 other hotly contested local races (not including the Raymond-Martinez race) going on, so I'm sure someone is monkeying around with those as well. There is a race for judge which only had a 12 vote spread as of the early voting; I have no idea if they've counted all the votes in that race yet so I don't know what the final outcome is.

dg

[Avalux]

17. My source -

She lives in my neighborhood in San Antonio; she's in her 60s and has lived here all her life; her family is from the valley. Seemed to know a lot about Texas politics - a lot more than me, being a transplanted yankee.

[7P Dude]

18. Same old racist bull ****...

I've heard it from ignorant whites and I've heard it from the San Antonio Hispanics. Perry's camp used the stereotype of corrupt border town Mexicans to tarnish Tony Sanchez.

All of us border towns are corrupt aren't we? It doesn't matter if it's a Democrat throwing the slurs or racist whites, it's the same old shit.

[Melissa G]

20. Having grown up in South Texas politics it was always my understanding

it was the white population that was in control of the voting which led to the anamalous events..when the hispanics actually were in charge of the vote counting things seem to be more accurate. This was the experience of those of us who lived it...What is your point? or are you just echoing the same old shit....

[7P Dude]

28. What?

This thread title is calling the entire county and Democratic party here corrupt. It doesn't say anything about whites, it just falls into the same old stereotypes racists have perpetuated about border towns for as long as I can remember.

[Avalux]

21. Ignorant whites? Please give a defintion -

And what exactly are San Antonio hispanics compared to other hispanics in Texas? If anyone is throwing around slurs it's you. If you have a point, please find a better way to convey it. Thanks.

[7P Dude]

27. What I'm saying is....

the opinion your 'nice old lady' had is the same thing that Rick Perry used to slur Tony Sanchez in the last election. Ignorant white racists have been calling us dirty and corrupt as long as I can remember. A lot of the San Antonio Hispanics (it's south to you, but north to us) have allowed that same stereotype to have legs.

Laredo heavily supports Cuellar regardless of what names you want to call him. Claiming that the election is rigged because we voted for the same man we did last time is baseless.

You don't want voting machines? That's what you got down here, the votes were counted by hand because the machines weren't working. The reason for the delay was the hand counting. You can sping it however you want but we had a hand count down here.

Even Ciro (who btw has used racial slurs in public to put down Phil Gramm's wife as a coconut) realizes there's no reason to fight this.

[Avalux]

31. My post is about one woman's opinion -

and it seems to be shared by many others. I am in San Antonio and I don't recall saying whether I and/or the 'nice old lady' are white or hispanic. Seems you have inserted your opinion here as a Cuellar supporter, which is fine. Were you present for the hand counting or do you have first hand knowledge of what went down? If so, please share your information with us.

[7P Dude]

33. Every Report

Every report that has come out has said that the reason for the delay was a hand count of votes that were going to be electronically counted until the machines had problems.

Do you have anything other than classic stereotypes to claim otherwise?

[Avalux]

34. Please post these reports and educate me. Thanks. n/t

[7P Dude]

36. How do you link the radio?

I've heard three different radio reports about the process and that's what the news was saying last night as well.

Honestly, do you have anything more hard proof than a stereotype to back up your opinion? Bexar County was almost as heavily in favor of Ciro as Webb was for Cuellar. Why aren't you demanding an investigation into Bexar County?

[crispini]

38. I'm calling bullshit on this post.

On Tuesday, Webb County Elections Administrator Oscar Villarreal said equipment used to upload data from the electronic touch-screen machines hadn't been programmed correctly.

“It's a new system for us, and we're getting used to it,” Villarreal said. “It's a learning process, but I think our totals are correct, and I don't see why anybody would have any problems with our results.”

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/politics/stories/MYSA030806.11A.glitches.4247ae5.html

Please explain how you can hand count something that only exists inside a computer?

If you can't substantiate your claims with facts, you would be wise not to make them.

Edited to add: I particularly like this part of the quote: "I think our totals are correct."

:wtf: I THINK? Honey, if you don't KNOW, you have NO BUSINESS running an elections office.

Edited againt to add: And if that's the case, why on earth did Webb not report early voting? Early voting results should have been tabluated DAYS before Tuesday and reported right after the polls closed. Our early voting results go up at 7:30 at the latest.

[7P Dude]

39. Radio

Call whoever is giving the reports to the radio stations if you want to call it bogus.

Can I ask what proof you have to claim this wasn't a legitimate election and why you are questioning Webb and not Bexar County?

[crispini]

40. I am suspicious of any county that does not appear to be well-run.

Or of any county that voluntarily changes to those touchscreen machines. Our elections administrator says that the great thing about having paper ballots is that if your counting machine goes down you can keep voting and count them later. If you have a problem with your counting you can always count them again. It's great. Why would anyone WANT to go from a simple and easy system to a more complicated system? Answer: a more complicated system is easier to manipulate and hide the results of the manipulation from outside people.

You could trot down to my elections office tomorrow and ask to see the ballots in my precinct and count them yourself if you so choose. Try THAT in Webb county, Bexar county, or in ANY county with touchscreen.

I am suspicious of Webb because as I said in my earlier post they did not even get the EARLY voting results up promptly. Ah HA. That is especially fishy smelling to me.

Whatever. Cuellar's from Webb, so Webb probably DID vote for him. However, all of that bunkum that happened down there during the LAST election really makes me wonder about this. Where there's smoke....

[7P Dude]

41. Good points, THANK YOU

Now THAT is an actual analysis of the situation instead of calling Webb County corrupt because a "nice lady" said so.

Personally, it's no surprise that Cuellar got this many votes in Webb County considering the last election. He's from here and we voted for Tony Sanchez in a very similar manner. People vote for the hometown guy regardless of where they are, it's just even more true here.

It's pretty messed up that we're even in this situation. This kind of infighting is exactly why DeLay setup the 28th the way he did.

[okasha]

44. The switch to electronic voting is STATE MANDATED

Counties do not have a choice. They have to switch. Webb is one of the more "backward" in that regard because voters here still have a choice of voting machine or paper ballot, and will for the next couple of years.

BTW, I voted on a paper ballot.

[crispini]

45. I don't believe that's correct.

I've read the HAVA plan on the Secretary of State's website, and although they have certain standards that they are mandating, such as standards that keep the voter from overvoting, and having accessible terminals at each voting precinct, I don't read anywhere in the HAVA plan that counties are required to switch to DRE's. Can you provide me with a link to substantiate your claim?

My county is fully HAVA compliant as far as I can tell, and we ALL voted on paper ballots.

[WolverineDG]

42. They started tallying the early voting

in the morning, & were still having trouble with it in the evening. By the time I got home from yoga at 10, they were STILL working on early voting tallys, which weren't announced until about 10:30. All but one precinct (in Zapata County) have now reported, but they are waiting on that one precinct (of about 400 votes) to come in before the results can be called final.

No link yet, but the local NBC affiliate is reporting that the County Attorney & County Commissioners are considering suing ES&S for not providing the County with the proper equipment, software, & support as was promised when the County bought the machines. The officials are really pissed off about this screw-up.

I have more, but I'll put it in its own post.

dg

[IndyOp]

22. Extended discussion of Theft (?) of Rodriguez election here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x416015

[Avalux]

24. Thanks!

:hi:

[Wabbajack]

23. Um this is a fucking travesty

WHEN is someone gonna do something about this shit?!

[crispini]

26. Whenever you ask "when is someone gonna do something?"

Remember that YOU are someone. What are you doing?

[7P Dude]

29. What do you suggest?

A hand count?

That is exactly what was done.

[Coexist]

25. I am still very sad about this

it is hard to accept. I had the same sinking feeling late last night as I did on November 4th.

[7P Dude]

32. Why not investigate Bexar?

Bexar county went almost as heavily for Ciro as Webb went for Cuellar. Why is it Webb County (WHO COUNTED THE BALLOTS BY HAND) that is corrupt and not Bexar?

[Avalux]

35. I won't argue with you about this.

You can continue to post in my thread if you wish, but your motives are clear and I won't play. :hi:

[7P Dude]

37. Motives? I'm very clear on my motive.

My motive is backing up the man who got elected and putting down the bull shit stereotypes that you seem to have accepted as truth.

What is your motive if it's not perpetuating a racist stereotype and dragging Cuellar through the mud?

[Horse with no Name]

43. "the man who got elected"

See...that is the problem.
The "man who got elected" in the Democratic primary is a Republican.
That seems to be the main concern of folks HERE.
BTW, enjoy your stay.:hi: