4-year-old out of surgery after shooting self at Sam's Club

[Redstone]

Source: WIS TV10

COLUMBIA, SC (WIS) - Authorities say a four-year-old girl from Salley is recovering after she grabbed a gun out of her grandmother's purse and shot herself in the Harbison Blvd. Sam's Club Monday.

Investigators tell WIS News 10's Stewart Moore they believe the child was sitting in her grandmother's shopping cart when she pulled a small-caliber handgun out of her grandmother's shopping cart and accidentally shot herself in the chest.

Read more: http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8451232

---

Do we have enough guns in this country yet?

Redstone

[villager]

1. Not yet! Glad Grandma's concealed gun was keeping everyone "safer"

n/t

[angstlessk]

2. grandma's packing! whoda thunk? bet she feels like an ass about now?

you cannot have my gun till you peel it from my grandkids dead cold hand???

[Bicoastal]

3. Was the gun in the grandmother's purse or her cart?

I find it hard to believe a Sam's Club would stock loaded guns in their stores, just waiting for kids to pick up.

Even in South Carolina...

[raccoon]

64. Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

"Authorities say a four-year-old girl from Salley is recovering after she grabbed a gun out of her grandmother's purse and shot herself in the Harbison Blvd. Sam's Club Monday."

[Turn CO Blue]

70. Re-read the article - one time it says purse and one time, cart

~after she grabbed a gun out of her grandmother's purse and shot herself

~she pulled a small-caliber handgun out of her grandmother's shopping cart and accidentally shot herself in the chest

[ekwhite]

73. The purse was probably in the shopping cart

Grandma put the child in the shopping cart, next to her purse with the loaded gun in it. Guns + stupidity = tragedy.

[raccoon]

78. Mea culpa. nt

[goddess40]

4. Grandma should go to jail for her lack of responsibility

That's all I've ever asked of gun owners, that they must be responsible for their guns. If they get stolen or misused, as in this case, it's on them.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

61. but she's a law and order judge. she CAN'T Be guilty.

[shanti]

5. and loaded...

smh...

[napi21]

8. Oh comeon. Grandma should have been more careful with how she

concealed that gun, but you DON'T carry a gun UNLOADED! I carried a S&W 38 snub nose a lot of years ago, but it was always either in my pocket or in my purse that NEVER left my side! In all fairness to grandma, why didn't that child's parents teach the #1 rule, and the first thing you teach a child as soon as they are old enough to understand the word NO! Why didn't they teach "NEVER, NEVER, NEVER touch anyone's gun for ANY REASON! We taught our boys that, beginning at age 2! You teach them not to touch the hot stove, stay away from the camp fire...... Guns are every bit as dangerous or worse!

[Critters2]

20. A four year old touching what they're told not to.

Yeah, who coulda seen that happening? :eyes:

This woman should go to prison....for a LONG time.

[napi21]

25. It depends on how you teach them. Haven't you taught your kids

not to touch the stove???? I can tell you how we taught our boys about guns. We didn't try to hide them while we were cleaning them or preparing to go shooting or hunting. We FIRST MADE SURE they were not loaded, but let them touch them. At about age 3, we explained how much damage they could do if used wrong. Then we took each on at the proper age out into the fields and stooped down to their level, and fired the gun at a sapling tree. It DID make an impression! Children need to understand things, and not one time ever did any of they misuse a weapon of any kind.

I already said grama was foolish in (I suspect) leaving an open purse in the cart that was accessable to a 4 yo! I'm sure she realizes that now!!!!

Hiding things from children will not work! They may not find it (what ever it is) at YOUR house, but they surely might find it at a friends house! They need to be taught!

[susanna]

56. I find myself torn here.

but napi21 has a very good point.

My father was a police officer all the years I was growing up. His gun was KNOWN to us; we were taught from knee high to a grasshopper that if we EVER touched it, bad, bad things would happen. Result: a household of babies to toddlers never, ever went near that gun. We were not even remotely interested in it; it had been explained; we got it. And we were not the sharpest tools in the shed - so it wasn't innate intelligence. It was the specter of our parents that gave us a whole lot of pause.

This was in the 70s and 80s, so it wasn't ancient history. I'm not sure how people who carry do NOT make it clear to children within their world that guns are off-limits. If they can't do that, like my father did, they SHOULD NOT CARRY. End of discussion, for me anyway.

This is why I am torn; this grandmother obviously didn't get the memo; teach your (grand)children well. If not, the consequences are dire.

That said, my father had us all learn to shoot by the time we were adults. I can handle nearly any weapon and am comfortable doing so. Do I own one, by myself? Yes. One. A Browning .22 used for target shooting competitions, which I enjoy. I didn't graduate (via the gateway gun thing?) to a .45. I don't NEED a .45. And I don't carry concealed. But, if, in a pinch an attacker lost his gun to me? Yeah. I'd know how to shoot it, and I see nothing wrong with that.

I guess it's a difference of perspective; that is all I can say. I would never, ever use a gun to settle a dispute - that is out of the question. They are for self-defense only, and that in extreme circumstances. If I have to use a gun, though, I do know how. And I don't see that as a terrible thing.

Education is key. Never let anyone tell you different. I'm sure a lot of folks will try to tell me why I'm wrong, so here's your chance...

[ekwhite]

75. Interesting background

I grew up around guns, but I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. I own 4 guns - a shotgun, a 22 caliber rifle, and two 22 caliber target pistols. I haven't shot them in over 5 years. Just not interested anymore.

[susanna]

100. Thanks, ekwhite.

I do find myself torn in so many of these gun-related discussions because my background is so unusual, I guess. I hate to see the terrible headlines with kids getting into guns and hurting themselves or one another; it's so far from what I've experienced that I struggle to understand it all.

I actually dislike handguns (too much power, essentially - you don't need that much, IMHO, unless you're shooting to kill - which I am not); I do, however, enjoy rifle shooting. So I have my own predilections regarding guns; who knew?

What I have learned: I know there are lots of folks out there who don't have the sort of hands-on, educational parenting about guns that I had back in the day. Would it make a difference, considering the violence all around? I don't know. Back then we had Matlock, not CSI:Miami.

I really don't know the answer. All I can do is put my experience out there and hope others do the same. It's the only way we will learn, methinks.

Thanks for your reply. ;-)

on edit: clarity phrasing

[rusty quoin]

26. I never kept guns around, so I didn't teach my children to 'NO' to touching guns.

I don't assume the parents kept guns. If I had owned a gun, I would had taught them about guns, but my biggest concern would have been knowing where the gun was at all times, and making sure there was absolutely sure there was no way for them to get to it. We taught our kids about hot ovens, yet my son burned his hand on a oven at 3.

[shanti]

47. there IS such thing as a safety, HELLO!

i don't personally own guns and i would never tell you not to own one. however, this was just irresponsible. unfortunately, gramma will live with this mistake the rest of her life! what a painful mistake to learn!

[Chulanowa]

89. But but but, having the safety on would mean she'd have to switch it off to blow away the mugger!

And that could take a millisecond!

Of course... Keeping your gun in your purse is kind of ridiculous if you're afraid of someone trying to rob you. I guess it's a good way to get another gun into the hands of a criminal though.

[benEzra]

96. That's the biggest argument against off-body carry, IMO...

if you are attacked, you are very likely to be separated from the weapon. Not to mention the safety and liability issues that may result.

I am licensed to carry a firearm. I always carry using a secure holster, NOT loose in the waistband where it could fall out, or in something that would allow it to become separated from me.

FWIW, the gun in this incident may have been a revolver; generally, only semiautomatics have active safeties. A typical revolver has only passive safeties to prevent the gun from firing if dropped, but will rotate a round into firing position and fire it if the trigger is pulled. They generally depend on a fairly long and hard trigger pull (often ten or twelve pounds) to prevent the gun from being fired accidentally.

Most modern semiautomatic pistols are designed to be drop-safe with the safety off, just like a revolver. This presupposes, of course, that the gun is carried in a properly fitting holster, not loose in a purse and left lying where a child can access it.

[benEzra]

95. It may have been a revolver.

Semiautomatics often have safeties; revolvers generally do not.

[Indenturedebtor]

6. But but but for every 50 innocents 1 person defends themself

So that makes it ok because i'll be that 1/51 rather than one of the 50 who die!

:sarcasm:

[madmom]

7. What the hell kind of grandmother would leave a loaded gun in the reach of a child?

I don't think this has as much to do with gun laws as it does with fucking morons who are to dumb to think about consequences!

[Larkspur]

11. Maybe she was scared of the government taking her guns away?

but it's people that kill people, not guns. :eyes:

[Recursion]

51. Er... I find the notion of Bush taking my guns away scary

I don't think there's anything crazy about that. Now, taking a gun in my purse (or "european man bag" in my case) and leaving it where a 4-year-old can get it is just stupid, but people do stupid things with every type of tool.

[reclinerhead]

79. Tool?

A tool? That's funny, the tools in my house or those I carry with me don't leave a fucking hole in a child's chest.

[ekwhite]

76. The article said she was a magistrate

She probably had a legitimate reason to carry. She got careless, and it cost her.

[Crunchy Frog]

9. Thank God Grandma was armed

or there could have been real trouble.

[and-justice-for-all]

10. Speechless. nt

[qanda]

12. I'm sorry this happened

But if the gun had gone off and killed a child that had nothing to do with grandma carrying a gun-- that would have been an even bigger shame. The story is sad though. I hope the kid will be alright.

[peoli]

13. Jesus Christ!

[kestrel91316]

14. Grandma should thank God every night from now until she dies that

kestrel don't live in SC and know where she lives. 'Cause this is one NON-grandma who would march right over and open up a JUMBO-SIZED CAN OF WHOOP ASS all OVER her.

I have to go to Target now. Thank God I live in CA where it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY some dumbass grandma is gonna have a loaded gun in her purse and let her toddler grandchild have it to play with. Or whatever.

[TommyO]

16. Grandma needs to do some of that praying from a cell (and I don't mean phone)

Anybody who endangers the life of another person with the wanton disregard for safety that this "person" showed needs to do some jail time and lose the right to ever carry a concealed weapon again.

[kestrel91316]

18. Betcha she's "pro-life", too.

[rdenney]

63. Who said she had a permit for the gun? I agree she needs prison time & no more guns for her.

[Herman74]

15. You ask, "Do we have enough guns in this country yet?"

Aw, C'mon! You think the gun nuts are going to give a damn about yet another accidental shooting victim?

[MercutioATC]

17. In other news..."3-Year-Old Run Over By Car"

A 3-year-old child in Volusia County is dead after being run over by a car.

It happened on 5300 block of Park Avenue in De Leon Springs.

According to the Volusia County Sheriff's Office, the toddler's mother accidentally ran over the boy who was standing in the driveway.

Officials say the child died at the scene.



http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2007/7/15/3yearold_run_over_by_car.html


You count up the kids killed by guns and I'll count up the kids killed by cars. Then we'll talk about whether we have too many guns or too many cars in this country.

[galledgoblin]

21. how 'bout both?

how 'bout we have too many people carrying loaded concealed handguns and even with education that won't change?

how 'bout we have too few locks on those handguns and too much opposition to requiring them?

[MercutioATC]

23. Just like you wouldn't require wheel boots on every car until they're actually driven,

it's silly to require locks on all guns that are being carried.

There comes a point where the user must be held responsible. Irresponsibly allowing a child access to a loaded gun is like irresponsibly allowing a child access to a running car...it's not about excessive mechanical safeguards that make the gun (or car) practically unusable...it's about responsibility.

[galledgoblin]

24. I think keys would be the better analogy for cars

but this metaphor is getting beyond us.

if you're going to be carrying a concealed and loaded handgun, you need to have a lock on it.

[Pavulon]

28. defeats the purpose

if you are ccw you should have it secured. this person allowed this to happed by being stupid. if she had no ccw she should be in jail.

[MercutioATC]

31. Of what use is a ccw with a lock on it? Planning to throw it at somebody?

No, a wheel boot is an appropriate analogy. It renders the vehicle useless until you take an inconvenient amount of time to disable it.

[galledgoblin]

44. compare the chance of an accidental shooting

to the chance of actually using that gun in a Steven-Segal-Movie situation.

then start practicing taking off that lock until you know how to do it quickly.

[Pavulon]

46. You cant holster a weapon with a lock..

if shit for brains in the story had a holstered weapon this would not happen. I bet this ass had a revolver loose and kid got it. Had it been in a worn holster this would not have happened.

[MercutioATC]

77. ...and if there HAD been a lock, but the key was in the purse with the gun?

...would you be advocating a 25-pound trigger pull so the 4-year-old couldn't have puled the trigger?

The point is that there's no need for a trigger lock on a ccw...and it renders the weapon practically useless for its intended purpose.

Safeguards can always be thwarted. Safeguards can never replace responsibility. What was lacking here was responsibility, not proper safeguards.

[Mojorabbit]

59. Not so anymore

my 2 year old nephew learned how to start the car by pushing the button on the key. They found it running in the garage. Lucky they found it before they went to bed. There is a lot of things that can be very dangerous and education and vigilance is needed.

[qanda]

48. The next time a toddler runs over themselves in Sam's Club with their grandmother's car

Be sure to let us know.

[Pavulon]

50. use the google, sadly infants killed by cars are common.

http://www.topix.com/forum/source/south-florida-sun-sentinel/T9NVBUU5H5DU196B4
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/22/daughter-of-grammy-winner_n_103011.html
child puts car in gear
http://www.wowt.com/news/headlines/310571.html

kids cant form intent. responsible adults are at fault.

[Lorien]

80. So are chilren killed by handguns (use the Google)

a car is made for transportation, but the gun is created for one purpose; to kill people (self defense or otherwise)

Over the past several years, the number of children killed by handguns has increased greatly. CNN and the National Center for Health Statistics reported that 5,285 children were killed by guns in 1995 (approximately 14 per day). A Department of Justice study revealed that approximately 13% of students say they know someone who brings guns to schools, while a separate study has revealed that nearly one million U.S. students brought guns to school during a recent academic year.

Often times, the children get the gun in their own homes. It is not uncommon for adults to keep loaded guns in their homes for security purposes. Frequently, such guns fall into the hands of their children or their children's friends, often times resulting in serious injury or death.

Although most guns include a safety latch to prevent accidental firing, they are designed to be easily unlatched so that the gun can be quickly enabled and fired. Thus, the safety latch, by itself, is not an effective deterrent to children.


http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6185852/description.html

[benEzra]

93. No, not frequently (thankfully). Child gun accidents are among the rarest of accidents.

Deaths Due to Unintentional Injuries, 2000 (Estimates)
(from National Safety Council, Injury Facts, 2001 Edition, pp. 8-9, 84, via GunCite)

Accident Type.....................Age............Age
..................................0-4...........5-14

TOTAL...........................2,700..........2,700
All Automobile....................900..........1,500
Drowning..........................450............350
Fires, burns......................400............260
Pedestrian........................250............300
Suffocation by ingested object....100.............20
Falls..............................70.............70
Poisoning by solids, liquids.......60.............40
Firearms...........................20.............60
Poisoning by gases, vapors.........10.............10
All other causes..................700............400

And a disproportionate number of those child gun accidents occur in homes in which one or more residents is legally barred from owning a gun due to a felony conviction, which makes the risk to the average (noncriminal) household even lower.

[Herman74]

98. No need to discuss -- TOO MANY OF BOTH! n/t

[SteveM]

19. There may be 290 millions guns in this country. Yet, crime is down...

since the mid 1990s and only recently has it been creeping back up.

More guns DO NOT equal more crime. Check the data, when you get through feeling compassionate and stuff.

[benEzra]

94. It was down again in 2007.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/09/AR2008060900675.html

[JerseygirlCT]

22. Oh yes. And some.

What an idiot that grandmother is. I wonder if she's learned something...

[Pavulon]

27. Criminal act

at minimum, if she had no ccw she should go to jail.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

33. I expect she will be charged

My guess would be something along the lines of recklessly leaving a loaded firearm within the reach or easy access of a child.

In situations such as these they don't usually arrest the family member the same day as the shooting.

[Pavulon]

34. carrying concealed illegally

is a pretty big deal. even if she was legal she should be charged.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

35. Was it illegal?

I thought when they mentioned she had a a weapons permit that was the same thing as a license to carry concealed. I'm really not up on my gun laws and terminology though.

The only reason I believe she'll be charged for recklessly leaving a loaded firearm within easy access of a child is because I know of a similar case.

[Pavulon]

37. mispost.she has a permit, but it should be revoked

[rdenney]

67. A FOID card is NOT a concealed weapons permit. Grandma is going to the slammer !

[jberryhill]

68. Gradma is a court official

She is a magistrate for Aiken County, SC. That's why she packs heat.

[rdenney]

87. She ought to be be packing heat right now, up her kiester when the law gets through with her!

What a tragedy that could have been so much worse had the little girl died.

[jberryhill]

91. There's no question that she's pretty stupid

But "the law" is not going to do a thing here. She's a local law enforcement official.

[benEzra]

81. FOID is an Illinois thing. This happened in SC. (n/t)

[rdenney]

88. FOID is the law in several states, thankfully. Its too bad this "grandma" had a gun instead.

[benEzra]

90. OK, name three states that issue a "Firearms Owner Identification Card".

Massachusetts' licensing system is the only one roughly comparable that I can think of, but in Mass. it also doubles as a carry license system--and it is NOT called a FOID.

In every other state I can think of, the licensure is licensure to carry, not to possess, just like a driver's license.

[jberryhill]

58. ...but for the fact that she's a magistrate judge in that county /nt

[Lone_Star_Dem]

29. I always thought it was illegal to carry a concealed weapon in place licensed to sell alcohol?

That doesn't mean that's true, but I always thought that was the case.

This is a horrible incident. I know of another case recently where a grandmother's loaded gun she kept in her home was used by a 13-year-old to shoot his 15-year-old friend in the head. The grandmother is out on bail on charges of making a firearm accessible to a minor causing serious bodily injury. The grandson is sitting in a youth detention facility awaiting his trial. The 15-year-old is alive but suffering from brain damage.

[-..__...]

39. Varies from state to state.

It's legal in MA to carry a concealed firearm (with a license), anywhere expect school property.

In Texas,it's illegal if the establishment if 51% or more of it's sales is derived from alcohol.

Besides... I'm guessing that in states where CCW is prohibited where alcohol is present, it's only if it's sold and consumed.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

55. I know so little about gun laws

I really should look into them more. Like I said...I had only thought that was the case.

It would really only make sense in a place where alcohol was consumed. I mean why bother with places that only sell it?

[benEzra]

97. Some states prohibit carry in places that sell alcohol for consumption *on the premesis*...

i.e., restaurants and bars, not supermarkets.

Most states that do have such a rule prohibit only carrying in bars or while drinking, but do not prohibit carry in restaurants; if you aren't drinking, it doesn't matter whether or not the restaurant has a wine list.

[Liberal Veteran]

30. If the clerks in Wal-Mart had just been armed, they could have prevented this.

It's mean to say, but that argument that more guns is the answer to the problems with guns in our society is like saying the answer to AIDS is more HIV.

[Pavulon]

32. Less stupid people

like the kind who put their kids in the car in the heat, or drive drunk. this person is a criminal in sc for not securing the weapon. if she had no ccw she should go to jail.

[rdenney]

71. Yeah but they need rifles so they wont be outgunned by the old grandma's.

[Pavulon]

36. delete

delete

[THUNDER HANDS]

38. cleanup, aisle 5

:hide:

[happygoluckytoyou]

40. i have always been "pro gun" with a bit of control

what if it had been a knife?
a knitting needle?

don't hate guns.... hate IDIOTS....

what grandma is walking around with a loaded gun in her purse ?

----i know.... i mean other than Mama Bush and Ann Coulter

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

41. Are our whites, white enough yet?

I answered a call where a 2 year old drank a cup of bleach. Are our whites finally white enough? Do we really need more bleach? Maybe stupid careless people should be banned from having kids, that would solve most of these problems.


David

[aikoaiko]

42. Carry a gun on your person is a heavy responsibility where complacency can lead to tragedy.

The same is true of many machines adults use and let children have access to without supervision.

[-..__...]

43. "Do we have enough guns in this country yet?"

No, what we have is a problem with too many irresponsible people in this country.

[LiberalPersona]

45. What the hell

was her gun doing in her shopping cart and not on her body?
Talk about being lethally careless.

[benEzra]

65. My thought exactly. (n/t)

[Canuckistanian]

49. You're overreacting

There are nowhere NEAR enough guns in America.

Because guns=freedom. Right?

[gullwing300]

52. Maybe we have too many grandmothers.

:shrug:
(Makes as much sense as your question)

[Xenotime]

53. Grannie packing heat? Has she been authorized to do this?

What if she forgot to take her meds then there could be real problems.

[rdenney]

72. No. Sams Clubs dont allow guns in the store.

[benEzra]

82. They DO allow carry by LEO's and those authorized by the state to carry.

She reportedly had a CHL, and was therefore authorized to carry unless Sams prohibited lawful carry in the store, which they do not.

[rdenney]

84. They do out here. Perhaps not where this idiot gun-owner lives.....

The article said:

"While we don't have a sign posted, I think everyone knows the rules and laws. We are working with police to make changes if necessary," said Stewart.

So it appears they just don't have the CCW policy not to allow gun packers in their store.....yet.

[jberryhill]

92. She is a LEO /nt

[rdenney]

101. No she isnt. nt

[sweet baby jesus]

54. she was trying to stop a crime

[jberryhill]

57. "Granny" is a 47 year-old magistrate:

http://www.judicial.state.sc.us/countyLookup.cfm?countyNo=2

The Honorable Donna Hutto Williamson
Post Office Box 99
Wagener, SC 29164-9570
Office: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

[JNelson6563]

60. Not to mentin a complete dumbass

She deserves to carry a heavy burden of guilt the rest of her life as well as to be an object of scorn from everyone on the planet.

[jberryhill]

69. I agree with that

...however, this notion that she was some doddering grannie carrying a gun for no reason, instead of being a court official, is a bit off.

My personal favorite is the youtube video of the cop accidentally firing a gun in a classroom during a gun safety talk.

[benEzra]

83. Ah, the "I'm the only one in this room professional enough...BLAM!" video... (n/t)

[Doctor_J]

62. No charges will be filed

No wonder we're the laughingstock of the civilized world. "She's law and order, she's firm behind the family". Translation: She's a right-wing GOP political hack who will skate on this travesty.

:eyes:

[rdenney]

86. Bingo! Gotta luv the Gawd, Gunz & Guts (beer belly) crowd.

[xchrom]

66. recommend

[ekwhite]

74. I just read the story

My brother in law is a Hutto. That explains a lot.

[rdenney]

85. Another knuckle dragging idiot thats allowed to own a gun, perhaps?

[ekwhite]

99. How did you guess?

That man is a waste of good oxygen.