alteredstate, I have an Obama question for you.

[hiaasenrocks]

You seem to be on the front lines of the Obama campaign for the SC board, so I thought I would try this over here. I asked this on the General Discussion board. In 28 hours I got four or five responses, all of which said the same thing, basically: "He says he's against the war" / "He was against the war from the start." So I'm not looking for that, so much, because it really means nothing. Anyway, here's what I posted.
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Nov-12-07 07:26 PM
Original message
What exactly are Obama's antiwar credentials?

He's constantly saying that he's against the war and this weekend said that if he's the candidate, the Republican nominee will not be able to say that Obama supported the war.

Does Obama want us to believe that he never voted to fund the war? Does he want us to believe that voting for war funding is somehow an act of opposition to the war?

We know where Hillary stands. She'll end the war, except for the troops guarding the embassies, the troops training the Iraqis and the troops fighting al Qaeda in Iraq. In other words, she won't end the war, despite telling us that she will end it, while explaining exactly how she won't. So...she's irrelevant to me.

Why should I support Obama? Do any of his supporters here want to take an honest try at these questions?

[elizm]

1. I'll answer for you...

Obama did oppose this war and is on record saying so in a most eloquent speech in 2003 while running for the Illinois Senate. You can read it here http://usliberals.about.com/od/extraordinaryspeeches/a/Obama2002War.htm and find that he was right on everything even then. He was not in the Senate when the Iraq War Resolution was passed. But once he was in the Senate he was not going to cut funds for troops already there...troops he did not put there!

And Obama will end the war and here is his statement in direct opposition to Hillary's stand..

"Barack Obama is against permanent bases in Iraq. He will not seek them. He will not build them. We will not have permanent bases in Iraq if Barack Obama is President."

Why should you support Obama? Because he is the only candidate with any chance of regaining our good standing in the world. He is the only candidate who gives me hope that we can actually get back our country again. He has the judgment and the wisdom to make the right decisions. He is our last best chance. Go see him and hear him, see the crowds that gather and the hope and the promise in the eyes of those there, and you will not need to ask the question.

[allisonthegreat]

2. When it gets down to brass tacks...

He is the only one making sense. Will get the nod of our party? Who knows? He seems to have the backing...

[luckyleftyme2]

3. he has common sense

Whether he takes the race or not we need him in our government. this man can think on his feet,pull for the average family and be an asset to all.

BE SURE TO VOTE!

[XemaSab]

11. Nah, the American people will never vote for a black man for the presidency

:popcorn:

[alteredstate]

12. Nah, it will never happen

:)

[hiaasenrocks]

4. Thanks for the contribution to the discussion.

First off, I still have a problem with someone who says they are against the war while they are voting to fund the war. He has contributed to the prolonging of the war by voting to fund it. The idea that he was simply voting to fund the troops is, in my opinion, little more than an extension of the war-supporters' tendency to make the war about the troops rather than about, well, the war. In other words, it's an emotional plea, not a logical one.

"He has the judment and the wisdom to make the right decisions."

How do you know this?

"Go see him and hear him, see the crowds that gather and the hope and the promise in the eyes of those there, and you will not need to ask the question."

I have watched many speeches on C-SPAN. I've listened to what he says. I am not interested, however, in the reaction of the crowd, be it cheers or tears. Many people have the ability to "move" an audience. I am not interested in emotion; I am interested in logical, thorough examination of a candidate's positions on the major issues.

[elizm]

5. The information is availble at any number of sites on the Internet....

If you want to know his positions on the major issues, look it up yourself. I 'am not interested' in wasting my time with someone who is too lazy to do it themselves.

[hiaasenrocks]

6. Let's see if I have this straight.

I asked you how you know that Obama has the judgment and wisdom to make the right decisions, and you tell me to check "any number of sites on the Internet."

So, in other words, you really don't know that -- you just think it. I'm guessing you won't tell me why you "think" that either, right?

Why is it that I can't get a single Obama supporter (on this board, on GD or GDP, or anyone I know in person) to explain why THEY believe he's the right man, in light of the question I raised. It makes one wonder exactly why they're supporting him, or if they even know why.

[alteredstate]

7. You know why I support him.

I sent a lengthy private response to your question weeks ago.

[hiaasenrocks]

8. I remember.

And when I asked about issues, namely Obama's have-it-both-ways position on the war, you said, "I could split hairs over eveything {sic} Obama does that I don't like, but I'm not gonna do it."

That's certainly your right, but I don't think it's splitting hairs to examine issues beyond what is said in stirring speeches.

Again, this is why I say I have been unable to find an Obama supporter who wants to talk about issues in any kind of depth.

[alteredstate]

9. Since you were so kind as to post details of my private message

you left this out:

"I’ve never supported the war and I was appalled at how almost every single Democratic politician bent over for Bushco when the decision was made to invade Iraq. I was impressed with Obama when he came out against the war at a time when it wasn’t cool to do so, and I support him now. “Being against the war from the start” might not mean anything to you, but it means something to me. I’ll admit that I’d probably feel differently about those who voted to fund the war if I didn’t have a loved in Iraq right now. I worry about him being the victim if we withdraw funding.

I’ve had to decide which electable candidate will bring my stepson home. That candidate is Barack Obama. I’ve met him and I believe he’s the real deal. And I don't feel good about Hillary."........

"I think a Clinton presidency would be more of the same old shit. I do not believe Obama is beholden to lobbyists and politicos from the 90's, as are the Clintons.

I could split hairs over eveything Obama does that I don't like, but I'm not gonna do it. This thing is bigger than Obama. Blacks and whites from all walks of life have come together in a movement that's like nothing I've ever seen in Charleston. There's a passion and positive energy that's incredible. I think Obama will make a positive change in our country and do a lot to mend our relations with other nations."

To be perfectly honest with you, I didn't have time to engage in a debate with you. In addition to working a full-time job I was putting in 30+ hours a week on the Obama campaign. I felt that Senator Obama was the best electable candidate. I still do.

[hiaasenrocks]

10. I posted part of the PM because you brought it up...

giving the board the impression that you had explained it all. In my opinion, you hadn't. So I was clearing the air.