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Hey, Minnesotans! Strib article on health care being freeped!

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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:14 PM
Original message
Hey, Minnesotans! Strib article on health care being freeped!
The web version of the Strib has an article about a DFL plan to implement universal coverage by making state insurance more available, and it is getting a lot of nonsensical response by people who have obviously spent more time listening to Rush and Sean than talking to actual people from other countries. (Perhaps the Strib is now so bad that only right-wingers read it now.)

You're invited to jump in.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/state/15517432.html
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. My God, that's a depressing read.
n/t
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes, nothing like people who have been conditioned to argue
against their own best interests. :eyes:

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dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
3. Here's my comment, though I don't know if they'll post it

Since the nutball right-wingers apparently aren't using the common infrastructure and don't appreciate the fact that a plan that lets people pick their hospitals and doctors and will cost all of us less money EVERY SINGLE DAY by leveraging the bargaining power of a larger group, then let's cut off the infrastructure from the people who obviously don't want to PAY for it. With the savings, we could afford to keep the bloated, administratively heavy system we have now, and just pay private insurance companies straight government money to cover everybody.

After all, isn't that just SO much better than a plan that lets everyone have private insurance but saves us all money by eliminating administrative waste rotting the core of a non-competitive and sick "health" care system?

The U.S. spends more on health care, both as a proportion of gross domestic product (GDP) and on a per-capita basis, than any other nation in the world. Current estimates put U.S. health care spending at approximately 15% of GDP, the world's highest. Yet the World Health Organization (WHO) in 2000 ranked the U.S. health care system first in both responsiveness and expenditure, but 37th in overall performance and 72nd by overall level of health.

The health care system in the U.S. has a vast number of players — there are hundreds, if not thousands, of insurance companies in the U.S. This system has considerable administrative overhead, far greater than in nationalized, single-payer systems, such as Canada's. An oft-cited study by Harvard Medical School and the Canadian Institute for Health Information determined that some 31% of U.S. health care dollars, or more than $1,000 per person per year, went to health care administrative costs, nearly double the administrative overhead in Canada, on a percentage basis.

In the 1880s, most citizens in Germany became covered under the mandatory health care system championed by Otto von Bismarck. The National Health Service (NHS), established in the United Kingdom in 1948, was the world's first universal health care system provided by government. Universal health care is provided in most developed countries and in many developing countries. According to the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences, the United States is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not provide universal health care.

All that's meant by "single-payer" health care is that the payment for doctors, hospitals and other providers for health care comes from a single fund. The Canadian health care system, the British National Health Service, Australia's Medicare, and Medicare in the U.S. for the elderly and disabled are single-payer systems.

But heaven forbid that we should actually make private health insurance operative more efficiently. Instead, we should be afraid of the government - the representative body that works FOR us, as opposed to private insurance companies, that work for THEMSELVES and PROFIT only.

So if you oppose paying LESS for health care that operates more efficiently and covers everybody, then fell free to give up your sewer, your water, your gas, your mail delivery, and your roads so we can take the money and throw it into a bloated, festering, and rotten private health care system the only motivation of which is to throw as many people off of health care so they can pocket more money.

Then we'll "bribe" those multimillionaire corporate bigwigs to cover everyone using your donation to the cause.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Dan, just one correction in your otherwise fine remarks
The British system is not a single payer system, because most doctors and other health professionals are direct employees of the government, although there is a parallel private sector patronized mostly by the wealthy.
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dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. They cut off comments, apparently

Once people started talking common sense, it was apparently too much for the InveStorTribune to take so they cut it off.


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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Naa, you just used too many big words for the right-wingers
;-)
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Pierre.Suave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. HAHA
Lydia, always good for a bit of truth and a laugh.

:hi:
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dodger501 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
6. SOCIALIZED MEDICINE!! SOCIALIZED MEDICINE!!
Run for your lives!!! Yaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh!!

I don't remember if I heard this story on DU or elsewhere. A poster was a consultant and started a new gig.
The first meeting was with the Director of HR. There were a couple of minutes before the meeting started and the conversation turned to health care options, how less than ideal they were. The directory, assumedly a person of advanced eduacation replies: "Yes but at least we can choose our own doctors."
Mindless repetition of what they hear on talk radio.

If the libs want it, they are automatically against it.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Two very disturbing things about those responses
1) People didn't actually read the article. The DFL is merely proposing an alternative state-run insurance system for those who don't fit into the private insurance system. This is kind of like what Japan has: an employment-based insurance system and a public insurance system, with monthly premiums based on income for the previous year, for those who are self-employed, students, etc. The readers jumped to the conclusion that the DFL was proposing a compulsory version of Britain's NHS. (Actually, the NHS has its good points, although Margaret Thatcher hobbled it with some "reforms" in the 1980s. People I talked to in England seemed to either love it or hate it.)

2) The disdainful, ignorant, clueless, even hateful attitudes toward the casualties of the current system was appalling. I don't like to wish misfortune on anyone, but some of those respondents really need a bit of experiential learning, like losing their jobs and having to work at a Holiday station for minimum wage, being self-employed after the age of 50, or they or a family member developing a medical condition that makes them "uninsurable."

I could just see some of them saying, "Are there no workhouses?"
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Pierre.Suave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. We DO need serious health care reform in this country...
We also need serious right winger reform...
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Blue Fire Donating Member (588 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yeah, but who's gonna pay for all those brain transplants??
I hear they're quite expensive.
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Pierre.Suave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. LOL
I was actually suggesting educational reform.
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geardaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. Yechh
Some of the commenters are spewing the "proud to work two or three jobs" screed that Batshit Bachmann spewed.
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