tammy deserves a clean mandate

[mopinko]

and a fair election in november. if i were her, i would demand a recount. shed sunshine on the problems with the voting system now, and maybe, just maybe, get a clean vote in november. i do not believe she, or any dem, can beat the people that own the machines. she must fight them to win. she must.
haven't we learned by now that they use stupidity, accidents and glitches to cover wrong doing? i have no confidence in the vote just taken in my county. when a half dead guy takes the lead when the long lost votes show up, you ought to recognize that smell. i sure do.

[Inland]

1. Her mandate's looking clean to me.

She didn't smell, her victory didn't smell, and there's nothing worth recounting. Cegelis conceded, it was four percentage points, and all that is left is the affirmation of unity (any time you're ready).

[benburch]

2. But there are over 100 missing memory cards.

And there were MAJOR problems with the equipment.

Might as well roll dice to see who won. 4 percent means nothing whatsoever with a fuckup as grand as this one!!!

[Gary Kleppe]

3. Not to mention...

...that if any problems with the counting aren't addressed now, they'll still be problems in November. And with most of the Sixth in Republican-governed DuPage, any errors at that point aren't likely to be in Major Tam's favor.

[Inland]

13. There weren't any errors in DuPage County.

Everything went smoothly in the greater part of the Sixth. There's no reason to spend $75k. None at all.

[Inland]

11. From the sixth congressional district?

I didn't think so. You probably are talking about all of Cook County, and not only is the sixth mostly in DuPage County, even Forrest Claypool isn't bothering with a recount with his narrower loss.

It's not helpful to question the legitimacy of the primary election in that manner. No Cegelis supporter needs that particular fantasy fueled.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Freddie Stubbs]

5. People need to get over it and move on

Maj. Duckworth is the Democratic nominee. Ms. Cegelis has graciously conceded.

[mopinko]

6. people need to have confidence in the vote count

i was there. i don't.

[Freddie Stubbs]

7. But apperently Ms. Cegelis does

Somehow I doubt that there would be this same concern for electoral inegrity if Ms. Celegis had recieved a few thousand more votes.

[mopinko]

8. ms cegelis is in touch with reality.

do you understand the meaning of the word rigged? but actually, ms cegelis aside, i would have made the same suggestion that i did in the other thread. a winner asking for a recount would open up a though investigation into the conduct of this trainwreck. no dem candidate will win in november if this mess is swept under the carpet.
why does a transparent election require a pay-off of $75,000?

[Freddie Stubbs]

9. I'm not too sure that either Ms. Cegelis or Maj. Duckworth beleive that

the primary election was rigged. Niether of them have publically expressed any doubts prior to the vote that the election was going to be anything but on the up-and-up.

[mopinko]

10. oh, yeah, candidates always say everything that is on

their minds. that's how you get elected!
i doubt tammy was worried. somehow shaky elections always come down where the money is.

[Inland]

12. The primary is over. Either unity or not. Your choice.

You throw out words like "shaky" and "rigged" and demand that other people pay for recounts to make you stop falsely accusing some unnamed conspirators. But it wouldn't work. You were making the same sorts of dark innuendos before the election, and you'll make them after, too.

Fact is, nobody......nobody......thinks the election was rigged for Duckworth. Even you.

And I have yet to hear anyone actually state that in ANY scenario, Cegelis actually won.

It's time to stop costing people with outrage over the fact your candidate lost. Everyone else has moved on, and join them or not.

[mopinko]

14. spoken like a true bushbot

until both winners and loser care about a fair count, we have an imperfect democracy. and you are putting lots and lots of words in my mouth. i will thank you to stop it.
tammy will not win in november if the votes are not counted fairly and accurately. this election was a mess. she should invest in sunshine. she will need it.

-even in the democratic party.

[Inland]

15. Everyone who cares about a fair count acccepts last Tuesday's result.

Everyone who wouldn't accept the result even with a perfect count is throwing out bullshit like "rigged" and "Bushbot".

So please, save your shit about "clean" as if you care about anything except costing your enemies time and money and legitimacy. You really have only one choice: unity or not, with "not" mean all sorts of false innuendo and accusation and contributing to the victory of an actual bushbot (not just some democrat who won't put up with any guff).

[mopinko]

16. all i can say to you is

fu.

[Inland]

17. It's not all you could say. But you've made a choice.

And if you aren't for the democratic nominee, you're for Roskam. Not for clean elections. Not even for a recount. For Roskam.

[wndycty]

18. Exactly. . .

. . .who did not see this coming.

[mopinko]

20. do not come cryin in november

this was the chance to look at the vote counting.

[Inland]

23. Yeah, no problem. What would make YOU cry in November?

Roskam winning? Maybe yes, maybe no.

[minvis]

25. What?

Do you even understand what Mo is talking about? She wants the machines audited so that when the Roskam/Duckworth race is close and Roskam ekes out a victory, you don't come crying saying the vote was rigged especially if Cook County has problems like this again in November.

We definitely need to know what got so f***ed up last week or else nothing will get fixed come November.

[mopinko]

26. there are none so blind

as those that are paid to post crap, and demoralize the troops. time to update my ignore list.

[Inland]

29. Yep, everyone who opposes you is paid off.

I'm on the DLC payroll. Any other reasons you need to ignore everything that doesn't go your way? I mean, really. YOur candidate lost, and you think it gives you rights to post anything? Get over it, get over yourself.

[Inland]

28. What what?

I don't think it's about November in the slightest. It's about refusing to accept the results and needling Duckworth's campaign to spend $75,000 in order to silence the dark innuendo and downright misinformation about the legitimacy of the primary election.

[minvis]

31. Did you even read post #19

I'm not disputing that Duckworth won the primary, but until someone 1) figures out what happened last Tuesday and 2) audits the results how can any of us feel secure. And I'm definitely not saying that the Duckworth campaign should pony up the $75,000 to recount, but I think a "good government" group should at least investigate.

[Inland]

34. But nobody's saying that there shouldn't be action

to make sure the next election runs more smoothly. That's not a recount, nor does it take $75,000, because it doesn't have any implication that the nomination was wrong. There shouldn't be. Duckworth won.

[minvis]

19. Let me say this

First, as someone who worked for Christine in the primary, I do not dispute the result that Duckworth got more votes. However, as someone who closed down a polling place as a poll watcher for Christine, something has to be done about the vote counting process in Cook County/Chicago. The Board of Elections and the Cook County Clerk's office both publicly said that this election was a test of the new technology that they bought under the HAVA law. I think everyone here can agree that the test was an unmitigated disaster.

Most judges were not trained well enough on how the process to count the votes was done. As a poll watcher at the polling place I was in in Hanover Township, I can tell you that the judges were well trained on how to use the touch screen machines and the paper ballots as well. The breakdown was definitely in the counting procedures after the polls closed. The counting process was complicated enough even for someone like me that works in the IT field let alone the election judges. As I'm sure we've all seen many of the judges are elderly men and women who are retired and, suffice it to say, most are not very computer/technologically literate. This is nothing against the judges. I know they were just trying their best, but this needs to be addressed before November, as Mo says. There are just too many failure points in this present process for me to feel secure that all the votes are being recorded properly.

I think after this election, Cook County seriously has to decide on what type of technology to use. Is it going to be all touch screens or all paper ballots going through an optical scanner. As we saw in DuPage County, where it was just optical scanners, the vote counting went relatively smoothly. And let's not forget that many of the races here in Illinois in November will be decided on vote totals from Cook County.

[mopinko]

22. i do not trust touch screens without audits.

not now, not ever. what is so hard about an audit system, anyway? would you bank where they don't audit?

[minvis]

24. I agree

I think the audits are necessary, but do I think the outcome would change after the audit? No. But, I do think that what happened in the primary in Cook County needs to be investigated. They'll be a hell of a lot more voters in the General election and something needs to be done to fix this before then.

[Land Shark]

21. If there are any irregularities, there's NO BASIS for presuming that

the 4% "lead", is the margin that needs to be overcome. Think about it: this is known as begging the question: presuming the very fact that is disputed.

Under the circumstances of all the missing ballots ("memory cards") there is a security breach that has led the Supreme Court of Mississippi, for example, to order a new election. Simply because the lack of seals on the ballot boxes over an extended period meant that the means of detecting whether or not the election was legitimate or whether irregularities had occurred had been REMOVED. The person challenging the election did not allege fraud, nor have a single piece of evidence on fraud, yet the MS SUpreme Court opinion was unanimous in ordering a new election: the evidence of fraud had possibly been removed and in any case the egregious break in chain of custody meant that confidence was shattered in the election.

See the Election Forum Post I did for the cite to this case:
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x417032>

[Inland]

35. That's not true.

Every election has "irregularities". The punch card system in Cook County never got withing one or two percent, and everyone knows it. But because everyone also knows it isn't much more than one or two percent error, the number of recounts are practically nil. Indeed, the Cook County board president race was decided by 4%, and THAT race guaranteed victory in November, and there's not a single demand for a recount.

Same with the sixth, except that it is mostly in DuPage County, which didn't have the same system or the same problem. So far, I haven't seen any evidence of any irregularities that could change the vote count.

So anyone who is saying that the election is a roll of the dice is simply wrong.

[AtLiberty]

27. Duckworth will lose in November to Roskam

She may receive the most votes, but she won't win.

No way.

Not with Diebold.

It won't matter how much time, money and passion is put into her campaign. It will all be a waste.

The electoral process has been privatized. This highly partisan corporation counts the votes in secret. There is no transparency. Over and over and over, it benefits rightwing extremists such as Roskam.

How many more elections must Dems lose to catch on?

[AtLiberty]

30. Today's cover story on DU says it all --

Election Whistle-Blower Stymied by Vendors (From the Washington Post)

This is why Duckworth won't win in November.

Many, many more articles out there.

If you truly want Duckworth's votes to be counted in November, you've got to go after Diebold.

NOW.

[mopinko]

32. unfortunately, now candidates

have to have plans, and money, to make sure their votes are counted. asbestos suits would be nice, as well. even then, i have not seen too many good plans out there.
good luck in november, tammy fans. good luck.

[wndycty]

33. Such optimism. . ."we're doomed, we'll never make it!"

Look we have to make sure every vote is counted and hold the election authorities accountable but I'm not sit by and let the doomsayers take over a week after the primary.