Just got a call from GA Dem party.

[kevinam]

I don't know how they got my name, address, and phone number, but whatever. They are begging for money. I told the lady on the phone several times that I am tired of the dem's getting slapped, and not slapping back. She claimed she is hearing that time and time again, and it is getting back to the dem leadership. First, the party website is www.georgiaparty.com We need to get as many GA dems to write these people so they know what we are thinking. I really do think that the dems in Ga WANTED to get spanked again this past November. I think it boils down to the anti-gay marriage amendment that was on the ballot. Back in March 2004, when the amendment first came up it was defeated. The Dems allowed it to come back up and it passed. If after the first vote (when it failed) the Dems said 'you had your chance, and you lost' and refused to put it back on the schedule, I think things in GA would have been much different. If the Dems don't stand up, Sonny is going to get another term, and the state legislature is going to have many more R's in it. This is sad (and scary). I wonder, if Cathy Cox runs for Gov, and gets defeated on her arcade style voting machines. Will she then say that there needs to be a paper trail??? Granted, she should be doing it now, before the Dems lose more seats. Why is it that the AJC, the 'liberal rag', seems to have more Bush flunkies writing editorials than anyone else?? I am annoyed and tired, Dammit, Democratic Party of Georgia, stand up and get it done.
Kevin.

[flaminbats]

1. Democrats have a final chance before I abandon ship..

I'm not sure if I call myself a Democrat even now. Once I considered myself a yellow dog, now I just call myself a democrat.

Last November there were only four Democrats on the ballot to vote for, and according to Creative Loafing, even one of those was more of a corporatist than the Republican incumbent. In 2002 I was so ticked off at Roy Barnes that I wrote in the Green Party candidate for Governor! Unless Democrats can produce strong candidates for Governor, Congress, and important state offices in 2006..I don't see any reason to worry about 2008 :eyes:

If Democrats cannot make effective use of the filibuster in the U.S. Senate, if they are unable to unite against Republican chaos within the next year, and are unwilling to hold the majority party accountable to its high moral standards..why be taxed with no representation?

[bunkerbuster1]

2. I contributed, and I'll work with the county locals

I think, and have always thunk, that it's the folks who contribute time and money who'll get the party's ear.

[Georgia_Dem]

3. I think they just realized that they couldn't win this election.

From a basic viewpoint, it does seem as though the Georgia Democrats just gave up. That's because thanks to the viewpoints of the state at this moment, they frankly didn't have much of a chance of delivering Georgia's 15 electoral votes to John Kerry, getting Denise Majette into the Senate, getting a majority in the state senate, or even maintaining their state house control. Let's face it,
the districts and statewide consensus both seemed to favor the Republican party. And Even if the Democrats had somehow held onto a decreased state house majority, it might not have been a good thing, since Governor Perdue would've been in the perfect position to blame
everything that went wrong on state house Democrats. Looking at his low approval rating, that may well have been his last chance to get reelected.

Bitching about the anti-gay marriage amendment wouldn't really have helped the Democrats. If anything, it would've led to to a greater defeat, considering that 76% of the vote supported it.

I think the Democrats may have thought, why waste too much time and energy on a lost battle when you can build up your resources and really trounce the opposition next time? And again, Perdue's numbers indicate that it may be possible to get a candidate capable of winning in 2006 and put some other Democrats in office through him (as the Montana Democrats did with their new ingoing governor).

[bunkerbuster1]

4. Bitching about the anti-gay marriage amendment? Some thoughts.

First thought of course is deep, deep shame that my fellow Georgians would pass something so creepy and hateful.

Second thought is that if we're going to fight losing battles on principles, we could do way worse than the God Hates Fags amendment, which may have been passed in a landslide but so what?

Third thought: My church -- which is in a heavily ReThug section--made a very public display of opposition to the amendment. signs on the street, press releases, etc. Did they get firebombed? riddled with bullets? egged? nope. Apparently one fundie-lady stopped by and had a heart-to-heart chat with our minister that got a little heated, but that was it.

I think we could've got some mileage out of this losing battle. I think more than anything else, Democrats need to stand for something.

end of thoughts, just wanted to share. (I agree with the rest of your message.)

[RubyDuby in GA]

5. Couldn't have said it better

"I think more than anything else, Democrats need to stand for something."

Even people I know that typically vote Democrat got caught up in all the flip-flopper messages that were being thrown at them from a national level. GA might not have gone for Kerry, but if there had been effective party leadership, we would not have lost so many seats.

And I don't care if you like her or not, Denise Majette was not the best or most qualified candidate to run. Again, poor party leadership led us to that. How do you let 8 people rip each other apart in a primary and think that anything good can come from it? It's almost as crazy as having 10 people run for president........

[Georgia_Dem]

6. First of all, bunkerbuster,

There are many Republicans, such as Arnold Schwarzenegger and Rudy Giuliani, who support gay marriage. It's also one of the more divisive partisan issues in the U.S. Congress. So your church in a Republican area supporting gay marriage is not all that surprising. Doesn't mean the majority agreed and was likely to be swayed by them.

I'll tell you why it's best for the Georgia Democrats to be quiet about gay marriage. It's because the majority in our state starts to doubt it when our candidates and officials decide to openly support. They can -- and should -- secretly cast votes supporting gay rights, but they shouldn't talk about unless it's absolutely necessary. The way to win elections is by getting more votes than your opponents. Openly having positions that are that much at odds with voters isn't the way to do that.

You're right about the Democrats needing to stand for something. They
need to start doing that by the 2006 campaign. A good place to start is targeting those empty promises and bad education policies that have tanked Perdue's approval rating.

Rubyduby in GA, you probably make a good point about the Democratic leadership. Again, I think they just wanted to save energy for 2006, where they actually have a chance thanks to the unpopularity of Perdue. But they do have to get their act together by then.

[bunkerbuster1]

8. Sorry, but that sounds, um... pathetic.

"Secretly cast votes supporting gay rights?"

Maybe you could 'splain this a little better?

[Georgia_Dem]

9. It's like this.

Vote for gay rights, but don't make gay rights a campaign platform under any circumstances.

[kevinam]

7. my thoughts on the anti gay marriage amendment.

Welcome to DU!!!

My greatest complaint concerning it, is the Dems rolled over. The first time the bill was up for a vote in the state legislature, it LOST. It was dead. Then the repugs bitched and bitched and bitched, and someone got it put back on the agenda. If I remember correct, it was a democrat that allowed this to happen (Calvin Smyre). The SECOND time it went for a vote, it was democrats that changed their mind, and decided they wanted it to go to the voters. I knew at the time that it would increase the number of conservative voters. That was the death nail for the democrats, and it was of their (our) own doing. I also think the 76% number is a little misleading, and that might be one of the reasons that the bill is decided unconstitutional. From memory (which isn't perfect) there was a poll this past summer in GA and the poll indicated that the state was serparated into thirds. 1/3 pro gay marriage, 1/3 anti gay marriage, and 1/3 anti gay marriage, but pro civil unions. So really, the state may not be as anti-gay as it might seem. Just like what shrub did to Kerry, the GA dems allowed the repugs to do. Show pictures of dudes in chaps running up and down Peachtree street, and scare people into thinking this would be an everyday occurance if gay marriage is allowed. The dems should have framed it as a case of equal protection under the law. There are so many issues in which the dems are weak kneed and allowing the repugs to frame it in their manner.

Tort reform is another. The debate centers on evil trial lawyers suing everyone and no doctor can afford liability insurance. Instead of what it is really about, and that is screwing the victim of medical malpractice a second time. Anyone who thinks it is easy to sue a doctor should try it some time...it isn't. Lastly, I am a democrat, and fairly informed, yet I can't say what the GA dems stand (or sit) for.

If the GA dems laid down for this election, shame on them, they let down a lot of people who worked hard and believed in them. I hope the dems have a chance at Purdue, but I doubt it. I can already see it. Both Cox and Taylor, are going to blow out the bank slamming each other, and the winner isn't going to have anything left to go after Sonny. Hopefully, I am wrong.

Kevin.

[Georgia_Dem]

10. I don't think the amendment hurt the Democrats.

I doubt if they could have stopped the bill from getting put out again, seeing as the Republicans controlled about every branch of the Georgia government except for the state house. I doubt the Democrats lost more than a few votes at most. Certainly not as many as actively opposing the amendment would have lost them.

I don't know about that poll you talk about. If it's from a credible resource, I'll assume that the machines fudged the result of the amendment vote, just as they likely stole the governor's mansion from
Roy Barnes and a Senate seat from Max Cleland. But still, what's it matter? It's still a vast majority of Georgians who are anti-gay, or at least believe in the "marriage is between a man and a woman" idea.

You may have a point with that the Democrats being weak on that lawsuit issue you refer to. I will admit that this doesn't sound like
the kind of thing that red staters will be irritated about if Democrats jumped up and down about it.

And I do thank the Democrats still have a shot at Perdue. Last I read, he's got a 43% approval rating. That's very low. And I don't think Taylor and Cox going at it would hurt them that much. In the presidential primaries, the many candidates went at it, then John Kerry quickly went ahead of George Bush in the polls after winning those primaries.

[bunkerbuster1]

11. That wasn't the death nail for democrats

Death knell, maybe.

(Feeling nitpicky today.)

To act as a bit of a bridge between you and our newcomer Georgia Dem, I do think it's only logical to pick and choose our battles. That said, I don't think we could've run from the God Hates Fags amendment--if the reThugs are going to pick a fight, we fight back with everything we've got, and we frame it in ways that are relevant to all Georgians.

But enough ancient history. It sure would be nice if Cox and Taylor didn't "blow out the bank slamming each other," and just ran respectable primary campaigns with an eye to the future of our party in this state, but I won't hold my breath.

[MGKrebs]

12. On picking and choosing battles.

While a reasonable concept, I think we must be careful about what we mean by that.

It shouldn't mean that we don't have a position on something important. It may mean that we don't expend a lot of time/energy/money on that issue at this moment, but we CANNOT run from our principles. If we believe in ourselves, we just have to convince others of our position.

We gain nothing by denying our own philosophy.

Protecting the rights of all of our citizens is nothing to be ashamed of. Others may disagree with our position, but they are the ones that have to try to rationalize diminishing those rights.

Just wanted to add to your comments.

[RubyDuby in GA]

14. As usual,

I agree wholeheartedly with Krebs ("Protecting the rights of all of our citizens is nothing to be ashamed of. Others may disagree with our position, but they are the ones that have to try to rationalize diminishing those rights.") I could try to make a good point, but Sarah Wildman has already done it in the December issue of American Prospect. In her article entitled Wedding-Bell Blues, she states that we, Democrats as a party, "failed to frame gay marriage in a way that uncertain American voters could support it: that discrimination - no matter who it is against - is immoral, unconstitutional, and, most of all, un-American."

That's how we're going to have to play from now on, take their strengths and turn them around - just like they do to us. I don't think discriminating against a group shows good moral, family values. Instead, I think is shows them to be the true bigots that they are and it's time we call them on their shit.

My 2 cents for today.

[rigel99]

17. agree with rubyduby on the framing part

spot on my dear! the NO was meant for an earlier thread, sorry put it wrong place...

[rigel99]

15. NO, the repubs in office are there because of Fraud

if you don't believe.. go visit www.countpaperballots.com

[StephanieMarie]

13. Here's the email I just sent the GA Dem Party:

Democrats are never going to win another major election in GA or the US unless we can have clean elections. The day you make verifiable voting your priority is the day I contribute to your party. It doesn’t matter how well we campaign, register voters, or get out the vote, if those votes aren’t properly recorded and tallied. I voted on a touch screen machine with no paper trail. I may as well have dropped my vote into Clark’s Hill Lake for all the good it did. We can’t even have a recount. What kind of crap is that?

Let me know when you begin working on demanding a verifiable voting system in GA, and I’ll be there!

[rigel99]

16. BRAVO

she gets it,

why do Deaners and other continue to live in a fog of denial...

go visit the Video of a Nashville conference on Election Fraud see
www.countpaperballots.com/VIDEO/NashvilleVideo.htm

the video of Cliff Arnebeck saying "Kerry Took a Walk" and "Dean was sabotaged by a well financed GOP machine"- I just loved seeing Arnebeck defend my main man the Good Howard Dean..., and Brad Friedman breaking *** shocking *** news of the Baker-carter commission www.bradblog.com

anyone who does not see that the GOP will put whatever puppets in office in GA they want , is wasting their time pontificating on GA democratic party problems which may never have existed (the problems did not exist for 134 years and then suddenly in 2002 when we installed Diebold, woops, lots of democratic party problems)..

i'm going to stick by my party (tho there are some Zealots out there)
and say that we must all work against election fraud and unseat Diebold before 2006