Cheaney-Edwards: DU is overconfident

[Nightjock]

Go ahead and tear me to pieces, but I am really shocked everyone here is so freakin confident that Edwards will beat the greedy,lying bastard.

(and I'm not trying to start one of those sarcastic threads.I'm serious.)

The murdering, jurrasic jackass has been around a long time. He has a quiet, fatherly delivery where he can lie through his teeth and for some insane reason people believe him.

Am I confident Edwards will do well? Yes.
I even believe he'll win.
...But to put Cheaney in the same debate category as bush is ludicrous. IMO.

If this were a football game I'd say Edwards would be favored by 3 points....and "YES" I know Joe Sixpack does not give a rats ass about the VP debate.
But this election has more people interested than ever before so I hope JE wipes the floor with the creep and wins a few more votes.

[Catfight]

1. Cheney's mexxed message will be, Vote for me or Die, that's about it.

[JuniorPlankton]

2. I agree

Cheney is not a dummy like *.
The bastard is pretty smart and quick witted.
Again, he has an inferior product, but it may not matter in the debate.

[TexasSissy]

87. I agree. Cheney has never "lost" a debate or argument, that I know of.

And he doesn't rattle or go on the defensive. He's a smooth, experienced operator. Edwards' experience, OTOH, is of persuasion before a jury....something very different from debating.

The public doesn't know and/or care about the real facts, so I think it's likely that Cheney will "win" in the public's eye. I think, though, that Edwards will hold his own and make a few good points. I don't think he'll botch it.

[Worst Username Ever]

3. I also hope we do not get overconfident about the next Kerry/Bush debate

Kerry laid the smack down, but I hope we don't just assume he will do the same thing next time. Rove is PISSED so who knows what they'll bring in.

[David Dunham]

4. I think that Edwards will do fine, but overconfidence is bad.

[n2mark]

49. just don't

underestimate the Cheney/Rove slime. They are desperate.

Don't forget they are against lawyers and will work this into the debates. Do not underestimate Cheney. Remember, he went on a search for a VP when Shrub was running in 2000, guess what was the result of his search? Cheney is a snake, DU'ers don't get overconfident. Don't know who is the biggest liar, Cheney or Shrub. But, Rove is out for the kill......Rove knows he will end out on the streets if Bush/Cheney go down. He does not have the degrees to obtain a decent job. Rove is fighting for a job.

AGAIN DU'S DON'T GET OVERCONFIDENT.

We can laugh and joke, but I don't trust these bastard.

[cheezus]

5. but Cheney sucks at talking to people

he's got the right wing wonks ok, but he doesn't know how to connect. So no matter how much he knows and what he details, he'll still come off as scary, and JE will come off as likeable. People will feel that Cheney does not care about them, but John Edwards does a lot.

[GreenArrow]

17. and if he's selling fear, and he will be

Cheney will come off as a tough guy who knows how to get unpleasant things done, while Edwards will come off as a nice, somewhat idealistic guy who is in over his head. I can see it now:

Cheney: I respect your idealism, Senator, it's one of the things we want to protect about America, but in times like these, we need to be pragmatic. Idealism isn't going to keep us safe from the Terrorists who hate us and want to destroy us.

Edwards will do much better if the debate focuses on domestic issues, IMO.

[RobertDevereaux]

28. If Cheney takes that line...

...then Edwards needs to attack B/C's *wrong-way* pragmatism with the details of K/E's plans to combat terrorism, which is *right-way* pragmatism.

Our team is better in all areas, not just domestic, and this "Bush is the better protector" nonsense has *got* to be countered HARD.

[GreenArrow]

37. yes, counter it

But in a face to face like Tuesday's, Edwards has to do more than simply smile and utter folksy admonishments. Cheney will be supremely condescending.

Our team is much better than the other on domestic issues. Edwards would also be wise to draw connections between what is going on overseas and the effect that is having at home, i.e. cost, cost, cost.

[venus]

48. Edwards needs to know chapter and verse

of what is going on in Iraq and globally (Israel, Russia, Uganda, etc.) Minute details. This takes either a lot of study or a lot of experience. He may be able to quote jobless claims and health care cost increases; extremely important issues of the day, but foreign policy will be part of this discussion. And I'm afraid Edwards doesn't have a great record with military affairs in his home state of N. Carolina. Plus he helped draft the Patriot Act. Let's be realistic. I hope Edward's handlers worked as hard on his presentation as they did for Kerry. And I'm hoping/praying for victory over the evil forces.

[central scrutinizer]

47. then ask Cheney why

Halliburton, under his leadership, did millions of dollars of work in Iraq in 1998, in contravention to the sanctions, thus helping Saddam Hussein earn oil revenues to buy bullets used to kill US GIs.

[juajen]

62. I agree with you, and

that good old southern accent and charm will play well to b/c's base. This should be interesting. They can't paint Edwards with a Massachusetts liberal label, not with that thick accent. This will be tough, but fun. Edwards will win this debate, but he will work for it, as he has done all his life.

[realFedUp]

6. You're right

Cheney doesn't give off the same visible signs
of insanity that Bush does....watch the EKG read-outs
instead.

[shanti]

65. true, but that sneer

is a definite turnoff and he can't hide that - it ALWAYS comes out!

[Thrill]

7. I'm not overconfident

This debate scares me. Especially in this sit down format.

[Walt Starr]

8. Actually, cheney is the brains behind Bushco

This debate actually worries me. Edwards has by far the tougher of the two debating jobs, IMO.

[Lerkfish]

67. for this reason, cheney will not be confused about details...

since he's running the show. So trying to slip him up on that will not work as well as the shrub.

HOWEVER, he's an alien serpent being and his lack of compassion will be his undoing.
Edwards should concentrate on the human side of the issues, Cheney's most vulnerable point, since he's not human himself nor cares about other humans.

IMHO

[meti57b]

9. Cheney has to sit for the debate because he is unable to stand for 90 mins

[livetohike]

10. 62 million people watched the first debate and I think

this one will have a good number of viewers. I know this is shallow, but just the visual impact of John Edwards and Dick Cheney on a split screen will be a major factor.

Yech, Cheney.

[Onlooker]

11. There are a lot of independents who like Cheney

Cheney is a representative of corporate America and appeals to all those Wall Street types and investor types. Some of them may be liberal on social issues, but that's not what they vote on. Edwards will have to convince businesspeople that Kerry will be good for business and good for the investment community. I think he can do that harping back to Clinton's policies. But, if he fails it will be a good victory for the Repugs. A lot of those Wall Street types are the kind of undecided independents that both sides are trying to woo.

[indyjones1938]

58. Hope you're kidding

Cheney does not appeal to Independents at all. In fact it is the total opposite -- he appeals only to the base. Most Independents strongly dislike Cheney and consider him a liability on the ticket because of his fear tactics and crooked ways. Cheney certainly appeals to the Wall Street corporate types, but they aren't Independents -- they are 100% GOP base.

Independents are generally young, normally apolitical women and some of the Baby Boomer set struggling between issues like social security, medicare and national security.

Edwards on the other hand attracted the most support of any Dem primary contender from Independents and Republicans. In some states 30%+ of his support came from Independents and Repub voters. His job tomorrow is to appeal to them again. If Cheney tries scare tactics that will appeal to the base but turn away the independents and even some moderate GOP voters.

[Onlooker]

60. Nope, I know a couple

I know one independent who aspires to hit it big in the stock market. He likes Cheney a lot, regarding him as the biggest voice of business of all the candidates. The other person I know is a wealthy Connecticut Republican who is pro-gay, pro-choice, liberal on all social issues, but he agree with Bush on Iraq and taxes. He also likes Cheney because Cheney provides what he sees as a business perspective on all the issues. I don't think Cheney is as popular as the other candidates by any means, but sad to say he does have a following and part of that following includes swing voters.

[debatepro]

12. Edwards will do fine.

Edwards nows what he is doing. Worst case scnerio is that he appeals to common folk. Remember people aready hate cheney that isn't going to change because of a debate. even repukes are talking about kicking him off the tickets.

[Skinner]

13. I agree.

Cheney is much smarter and more confident than Bush. This debate is probably going to actually be a draw, IMHO.

And, of course, the media is going to spin it as "The big win that BC04 desperately needed". And they're going to talk about how important Vice Presidential debates are, evern though they don't really matter at all.

[Walt Starr]

20. You forgot something about the spin

They'll spin it as the VP debate being important in THIS RACE even though it has never been important historically and since Cheney made such a good show of it the Kerry camp has lost it's momentum and quite possibly the race.

[mvd]

23. People may watch to see how Edwards is on..

foreign policy issues. Lack of experience with that is supposedly one of Edwards's weak points. But I think Edwards will make Cheney angry. All he has to do is bring up Halliburton and have a quip about Cheney's use of bad language to a Senator. :-)

[Walt Starr]

25. OOOOH, any chance Cheney will use his foul language again?

It would be a HOOT if the networks all get fined $500,000 because they carried Cheney telling Edwards to go Cheney himself!

[trogdor]

42. The idea of Edwards vs. Cheney...

...sounds like JFK vs. Nixon. As long as you don't WATCH it on TV, Biggus Dickus does OK, and he might hold his own, but once you make the visual comparison, Edwards has the advantage, slight as it is. Let's hope Edwards did his homework.

My $0.02.

[devinsgram]

56. Now your talking.

Edwards will be just fine. Edwards definetly has the edge. If you had never seen either of these two men before and they got up and spoke to you, and then you were asked which one was more believable, who would you pick? My bet would be that Edwards would win everytime.

[bacchant]

55. Cheney scares the shit out of me

Look what this devil has been able to get away with, it's not going to be a walk in the park for Edwards.

[jmowreader]

80. I'm going to have to disagree with Skinner

Cheney is much smarter and more confident than Bush, that's true, but that's not saying much when you consider how stupid Bush is.

Cheney also has a hair trigger and the infamous Snarl.

Edwards isn't fighting a battle of wits against an unarmed man the way Kerry must do, but he's up against a competitor who told someone to Go Fuck Himself on the Senate floor. He can't do that here.

Add in the Halliburton conflicts of interest, his heart condition and the quagmire he helped to engineer.

We all know that this debate could well be a draw on facts. This brings style points into the equation, and here Cheney is fighting a losing battle. Edwards will come out smooth and well-prepared. Cheney's rough edges are the stuff of legend.

I still say Cheney's going to get his ass handed to him.

[Goldmund]

14. I agree

Cheney is not dumb, as evil as he is. Bush is dumb. So as indefensible as Cheney's policies are, he has a better shot at wrapping them into something Joe Sixpack may swallow.

On the other hand, Cheney's never been very "likeable" -- unlike Bush (for some insane reason, since he's always made me gag). And Edwards is the embodiment of likeability.

It'll be interesting, to say the least. My take is that Cheney will be an intelligent attack dog, and Edwards no less intelligent, but optimistic, charming and not as agressive. I think the debate will be declared a draw by talking heads, but the post-debate polls will probably give Edwards an edge.

[GreenArrow]

21. It won't all come down to likability;

it will come down to experience versus inexperience. Edwards was not my personal choice -- Clark -- and I don't like him, or trust him. But I will be rooting for him, just as I rooted for Lieberman four years ago.

[indyjones1938]

44. Question

Do you actually know anything about Edwards' policy background, or are you just repeating the tired old attack lines from the primaries? I mean, do you actually know anything about the legislation he has sponsored and co-sponsored? I do. Maybe you should look into it too.

For some reason it seems that the "Clarkies" were the only ones who never warmed up to Edwards. Even the Deaniacs and Kucinichiacs (Dennis and JRE are good friends) have fallen in line behind the VP pick. Maybe it's just sour grapes?

And a comment like "I don't trust him" does not do anything to boost morale in the trenches. Maybe it's just jealousy? Jealous of his self-made success? Or looks? Or intelligence?

Overall I have noticed DU is very hostile towards Edwards. But go ahead. Underestimate him. You are all in for a shock tomorrow night. There are some secrets coming out tomorrow night that are going to sink BC04's proverbial boat. You will be wishing JRE was at the top of the ticket instead of the VP slot.

[GreenArrow]

54. yeah I know about him

Clark was my choice for VP, Kucinich for President. Pretty much everyone has fallen in line behind the VP pick; we don't have a choice, do we? And he's a damn sight better than what is in there now. As for not trusting him, well, I don't trust politicians in general. Edwards rings a lot of my bells. Jealousy has nothing to do with it. He has more money than I do. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I'm not considered unattractive. We have different skill sets and values, but I doubt my intelligence is significantly lower than John Edwards'.

I hope you are right about BC04's boat being rocked. But, even with a resounding Edwards victory, I will not be wishing for him to be atop the ticket, and I will be praying for John Kerry to remain healthy.

[Goldmund]

69. "some secrets coming out tomorrow night that are going to sink BC04"

Are you purely speculating, or do you know something?

If latter -- wanna share?

[diamondsoul]

79. I think my avatar and sig tell who I favored

and I am firmly behind Kerry/Edwards now--- This from someone who has fought that alliance HARD for several months. I did NOT want Kerry to be the pick once he picked up steam. The same happened with Edwards.

The more I watched them the more I got the "typical politician" feel and it bothered me. I resent both of them voting to put pre-emptive sttrike power in the hands of the POTUS indefinitely (something I hadn't considered until I heard Sen. Byrd bring it up on the Senate floor this afternoon), and assisting with and voting for the Patriot Act.

Still, the deal for me is this, both of these men have some comprehension of what the average American family is facing right now and will do one hell of a lot more to protect us from those things than B/C and the Rove machine would even consider.

On tomorrow's debate, Edwards will chew Cheney to pieces and spit him out when he's done. I have the utmost confidence in Edwards' ability to destroy any arguments against him just from his court-room experience. The man is absolutely LETHAL when it comes to making his case to the average man or woman on the street. He's just fantastic with the spoken argument, debate and plain old convincing people that he's right. I'm not at all worried about Cheney and Rove.

[Nightjock]

84. I would love to be 100% sure like you

But I believe even though all of the facts are on Edwards side.. Cheaney is a snake oil salesman.

I heard him denying any influence with Haliburton and thier Iraq war- no bid contract and in 20 seconds he SOUNDED...
(ugh, I can't even type it)..... sincere and believable.
AND I KNOW THE FACTS AND THAT HE'S LYING FUCKWAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PROGRESSIVE1]

15. Edwards will win it but it will by point by point.

ALL Democrats better be ready to DU all the online polls and send in emails and blast faxes to get public favor to our side.

[TwilightZone]

16. Perhaps we should be reviewing the Cheney/Lieberman debate.

Because, if memory serves, Cheney (unfortunately) did pretty well.

Cheney tends to be even more relentlessly on message than Bush. Cheney can tell a blantant lie over and over again without reserve. The man appears to have no conscience whatsoever.

Cheney/Edwards will certainly be much more competitive than the first presidential debate. I hope - and expect - that John will hold his own. I agree - it won't be as one-sided as Kerry/Bush was.

[central scrutinizer]

52. In 2000, Cheney did OK

but only in comparison to Lieberman who was worthless. I was screaming at the TV: "call him on his lies, you useless milquetoast, don't just sit there and chuckle along with his quips!!"

[Doosh]

73. now we know that Joe is pretty much on board with 90% of what Cheney does

hard to debate a neo-con when inside your are a neo-con. Lieberman was just going through the motions, Cheney was unimpressive.

[OKNancy]

18. Edwards won't do what Lieberman did

I hope not anyway. Lieberman let Cheney just sit there and lie. I vividly remember when Cheney said he didn't make his living off the government. If Lieberman were more informed, he could have countered with all the government contract Halliburton got....and tax write-offs too.

I am pretty sure Edwards will be very tough and well prepared.

Cheney tends to exaggerate, so Edwards, if he is strong, can come back and say...hey, that's a mis-statement ( he can't say lie - that seems to be a no-no)

[MidwestTransplant]

19. Cheney is 10X better than * at articulating points and attacking opponents

off the cuff.

[Ripley]

22. You are so wrong.

The Dick has an approval rating of about 30%. I don't care how much gravitas he has in his Borg-body. It's BAD KARMA gravitas.

Edwards will win on two basic issues: Halliburton/Iraq rip-off of taxpayers and hopefully his push of the "Two Americas" theme which should include chickenhawk Cheney getting what? 5 deferments because he had other priorities during Vietnam. Well, hello? How many poor or minority kids got to do that?

[henslee]

31. deleted

[sangh0]

24. Cheney aint bush*, but Edwards isn't Lieberman

Cheney won't lose his cool the way bush* did, but Cheney is unlikeable, and his image of sober strength is going to be destroyed when Edwards calls Cheney on the lies he's told (ex "we know, in fact, that Saddam has nukes and we know where they are", etc), on Halliburton, and on his earlier GW1 warnings about getting bogged down in Iraq.

[belle]

26. You could be right. Still, I don't think it'll matter that much even if

Cheney does pull it out. * is going to stick his foot in his mouth again next debate, and that's what counts. And I don't think Edwards can show himself up *too* badly. At worst he'll probably come off as green; but for the number two slot, that may not be so bad.

[The White Tree]

27. We can get overconfident all we want

Edwards and Kerry are the ones who need to not get overconfident. That is a recipe for disaster.

If they need a reminder look they should look at how confident Bush, Cheney and co were right after the Iraq war and how well that turned out for them.

John and John need to stay cool and calm and deliver the goods the same way Kerry did in the first debate.B-)

[MSgt213]

29. First of all relax. Edwards just has to come off as honest to hold his

own. Sure Cheney seems to know more and composes himself better then Bush, but he cannot stop lying!!!!

[MatrixEscape]

30. I have confidence ...

Edwards has strong ambition. He as done some "ambulance chasing" in his career and those guys know how to spin a case to get big bucks for their clients.

In that case, Edwards is a great match for Cheney. I see the outcome as a tie, at the very worst.

Some points:

Will they use some botox on Cheney's face? He has a tendency to scowl/sneer from the side of his pie hole. I can't wait to see him try to repress it so he does not look as angry as Boosh.

It will be strange to hear Cheney speak, publicly, about anything but terror ... fear ... terror ... etc. Might even be refreshing. I imagine he will have the capacity to be flexible, unlike his sock puppet.

I don't know about you, but Edwards kind of reminds me of Mike Meyer's Wayne from Wayne's' World. That's good for the young vote, perhaps? I find him much more charasmatic than old concrete face.

Party on Garth! This actually might be an interesting debate compared to the last one. At least both participants will have functioning brains and are both literate.

[DemsUnited]

32. " From todays Washington Post: "Republicans depending on

Vice President Cheney to halt the ticket's slide." Pretty much says it all -- Cheney IS in charge. And because of this, Edwards will have a tough fight.

[Red State Rebel]

71. I agree, and let me tell you why....

This is one instance where Edwards young looks could be a problem. If Cheney comes off looking more mature and distinguished he has an edge. My second concern is that Cheney has had years of experience battling the press, etc. Edwards has experience speaking, but I don't think I've seen him in a position where he is being challanged one on one and had to respond.

Being a trial attorney helps because he has to be quick on his feet, but I just don't know how much experience he's had in this type of situation - i.e. during a trial, you usually have a lot more time between questioning and speaking than you will have in a debate.

I think he can pull it off, but I don't think it will be as easy for him as some people think it will.

[Melch]

33. Bob Dylan's ode to Big Dick

Well, not really-but you know people like Cheney, Rove and all of the other "Gen. Buck Turgidsons" are exactly who he had in mind.

Masters of War

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead

[henslee]

34. Nope. We're ahead on points in round 1. JE will not let up. Too

much experienced. JK softened them up good. Crashcart will get skewered if he go to the well with those same old talkig points. Plus, since the last debat, things have gotten worse in Iraq. Attack adds by * have gotten more insidious. Poland has dropped out. Most importantly, I bet we will see Edwars actually mention *'s shithouse debate 1 performance.

[indyjones1938]

35. Why the pessimism

There will be a few surprises that come out tomorrow night. Trust me it's going to be fun. FYI, John Edwards never deposed opposition witnesses and still won some of the largest verdicts in US history. This guy is unbelievably quickthinking on his feet.

[venus]

51. But ...Edwrads won't be on his FEET.

He'll be sitting at a board table. Thanks Vernon Jordan.

[indyjones1938]

57. Earth to venus

It was a figure of speech. Listen, moan and groan all you want about Edwards (I notice you're also a Clarkie, what a surprise). But the fact is, Edwards is amazingly quickthinking in these types of situations. Do you know what it means when I say he didn't depose witnesses in multimillion dollar lawsuits, and still won record verdicts? The guy has guts, and brains, and a smile to make the ladies swoon to boot. He will change his style and tone as necessary. He will control the debate by keeping Cheney on the defensive.

And Koko01 (doom-and-gloomer of the old JohnEdwards2004 blog ) is wrong. He will go for the jugular tomorrow, but it's not going to be obvious during the debate. Edwards will slowly undress his opponent, unraveling him piece by piece.

[demgrrrll]

82. John Edwards has taken plenty of depositions sitting down. I understand

your concern though. I think he will do just fine but as always with the corp media he will have to do better than expected to break even.
I can't wait. Win or draw I like seeing Cheney crawl from under his rock and have to answer some questions. Every light shined on this scurrying cockroach does us some good.

[against all enemies]

36. War profiteering, how can he win?

He was paid $30 million as head of halliburton, and now he says he didn't know what was going on? He will be on the defense. Does Cheney still have Halliburton stocks in a blind trust. I heard that he still profits from them, is this true?

[venus]

38. Agree

Agree

[4_Legs_Good]

39. We cannot afford anything short of dazzling victories in the debates

Overconfidence could easily kill us. I am definitely confident, but that doesn't mean that Edwards or Kerry should be.

They can simply NOT AFFORD to ride on the victory last Thursday. A TIE in any of these debates is not good enough. The victory Thursday will give us a bounce, which is nice, but it's gonna take 4 solid wins with at least one more spectacular blow-out to turn that bounce into real momentum.

Please, Sens. Kerry & Edwards, do not waste a moment you could be preparing or solidifying your success. Do not get over tired, do not get over confident. We have them on the ropes, now we have to really shine to get a knock-out.

david

[blue neen]

40. Cheney's lies might go over okay with their hand-picked rally crowds,

but it won't play well with the rest of America.

I've seen Edwards speak. He is the genuine article; intelligent, articulate, and extremely charismatic.

[VOX]

41. It probably won't be the lovefest that Cheney and Lieberman shared...

in 2000, where they just kept complimenting each other and grinning like Cheshire Cats.

Cheney fully understands that the GOP is now running tied or even behind a bit. He is cagey, and will be attempting to score points, even hitting low to do so.

To his advantage, Edwards is presentable, quick, articulate, and yes, likeable (something Cheney isn't, even to many Republicans).

A "tie" of sorts will actually be a Democratic victory, IMO, since Edwards will have proven that he can hold his own with one of the right-wing's brain trusts.

Edwards will do fine.

[progressivebydesign]

43. Snidely Whiplash vs. Dudle DoRight... how can we go wrong?? n/t

[KoKo]

50. Cheney is very good at the "Grandfatherly Statesman" when he wants to

play that roll. But, I heard a lawyer from Charlotte, NC on C-Span saying that if Cheney says "It is so, because I say so" that Kerry will eat his lunch. The lawyer also said that Edwards is versatile with his approach and can play well against both an opponent's strengths and weaknesses. Lawyer also said that if Cheney plays the "elder statesment trying to tell the young whippersnapper he is not experienced enough that Edwards will be able to handle that easily by pointing out the positives of a fresh approach. (Sounded good to me....I think Southerners can outmaneuver those guys from Wyoming, any day}, but Cheney can lapse into a down home approach very easily too...hiding his mean, vindictive streak. How much could Edwards prod him? He might try to be safe to end up with "a draw," rather than provoking a confrontation. :shrug:

I imagine Edwards has watched alot of Cheney's debate with Lieberman in the last week. I expect he will do very well, whether it's holding his own or not. I don't think he will chance going for the "kill" but he won't embarrass us like Lieberman did.

[Roland99]

45. C-SPAN was discussing this upcoming debate

and they showed a clip of Cheney devouring Lieberman.

[maine_raptor]

46. Something I saw on CSPAN yesterday has stuck with me

There was a CSPAN show on the upcoming Edwards-Chaney rumble. One of the guest via phone was a lawyer in NC that had worked with and against Edwards in court. He said that Edwards style was one of "story telling" and "hypothetical questions". In other words, Edwards would launch into "stories" to make a point and poise hypothetical questions in such a way that the jury members would get the point. He said Edwards was VERY well prepared for every aspect of any case and was ruthless on cross, but in a gentle way.

All-in-all, it reminded me of what I have read about another American politico that came to prominence: Abraham Lincoln.

I look forward to Tuesday night, it will be a double bill: F/911 followed by Edwards-Chaney. Can't wait.

[flatcoat]

53. Debate Strategy for Edwards

Sen. Edwards should wear a "LEAHY '04" button on his Lapel

:silly:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

64. ROFL

welcome to DU :hi:

[BlueNomad]

59. Dick Cheney is caught

between a rock and a hard place. He has to play the FEAR card, the hardcore scowling cowboy routine to give the air of authority but most people hate him. His favorablity ratings are in the toilet. So then he has to be warmer, fuzzier--and his warmer fuzzier cannot compete with John Edwards'.

So I guess he'll try to show how experienced and "knowledgable" he is with facts and figures. He might be able to pull that off but the problem is Edwards is a sponge with facts and figures and good talker so I'm not sure Cheney's even going to be able to win that angle...I am sure Porkchop will try to trap Edwards with some obscure facts etc...Let's just say he ain't going to be going for the simple speaking plain spoken routine...

[chrislrob]

63. I agree BlueNomad.

It's hard to act likable while screaming, "Fire!". So he may well abandon that approach entirely and focus on the choices for running the country--the old experienced pragmatic pros or the new, inexperienced, idealistic, terrorist-hugging, globalist, B team.

And then Edwards can focus on the facts. That everything that has happened has happened on the "old pro's" watch. And that they seem committed to seeing through their ill-laid plans no matter what the cost rather than considering a fresher approach. And for good reason, since to do so means admitting they were wrong in the first place and that much blood and treasure has been lost because of it.

[chrislrob]

61. I wouldn't worry about Edwards being unprepared...

did you read the story about the Edwards closing argument in the case where he obtained a record judgment? 90 minutes, no notes.

This guy isn't just a lawyer. He is a TRIAL lawyer. Lawyers know the difference.

Yes, Cheney is no *. But the key for Edwards is to lure Cheney out through hitting singles. See, Cheney is under pressure. He needs a home run. He isn't going to want to leave this entire weight on *'s rounded shoulders. He won't want a draw with this young rapscallion.

So he'll wait until he feels it is just the right moment and he'll try to knock one out of the park. If Edwards fields it, Cheney WILL get pissed.

The only thing for Edwards to watch out for is appearing like a yappy little puppy nipping at the heels of a big dog. So respectful, not deferential. And warmer than Cheney but don't come across as soft, on terrorism or anything else. I damn LOVED that Kerry said he would "kill" the terrorists that addle-brained * referred to as "folks". Loved it!! And yes, Halliburton. No-bid contracts. Stock options. Conflict of interest. Maybe a couple of 9/11 references. But raised charmingly and with a genuine interest as to the answer.

These are arrogant people, y'all. And we KNOW Cheney has a temper!

[Road Scholar]

66. I agree that overconfidence is a killer, but

Edwards has been having lying cheating bastards for breakfast like this for years.He has so much to work with because of Cheaney's past performance, particularly in these areas,it should be an evening of spectacular entertainment.The minute that I heard that Kerry wanted Edwards as his running mate,my first reaction was, when will they (Edwards and Cheaney) debate.
:spank: :nuke:

[dean_dem]

68. You are right that we shouldn't be overconfident...

but Edwards's law experience has probably left him pretty used to going up against guys like Cheney. I'll just say I'm confident, not overconfident.
But anybody who think Cheney is just going to lay down and die is crazy. Cheney is definitely not Bush, there won't be any stammering or "mexed missages," and I'm confident the Kerry campaign is planning for that. Edwards best offense is to put Cheney on the defensive as soon as possible, which should be easy to do for Edwards. It's a matter of saying, "look, your administration has a lot to answer for, such as...." Cheney will be tough, but Edwards will do fine.

[progressivebydesign]

70. I know Edwards doesn't have that "JOEMENTUM",

but he'll be able to hold his own.

[eridani]

72. Hope JE shoves Cheney's 1991 words about Iraq right in his face.

Also, I hope he makes a crack about how all of his public policy initiatives will be conducted in public, but that he will keep the names of CIA WMD investigators secret instead of the way Cheney does it the other way around.

[Road Scholar]

75. I was hoping for a different part of his anatomy

you might can guess which one :)

[deadparrot]

74. THANK YOU.

We're underestimating Cheney. I almost guarantee it.

[helpisontheway]

76. Well, he won't have time to tell any stories

during the debates. He has the same time limits that Kerry/Bush had..........

[deadparrot]

77. Cheney's limited appeal with voters has never come from his stories.

People see him as a guy with a clue, with brains. He's not afraid to be blunt. My main concern is that Edwards will come off as the naive, inexperienced one.

[Strawman]

78. Edwards is debating Calbert Cheaney now?

The Golden Sate Warriors' record shouldn't be too hard for Edwards to effectively criticize either.

[CalProf]

81. George Bailey v. Mr. Potter

It's a Wonderful Life. The young idealist wins every time in America's imagination.

[n2mark]

83. I'm having a senior lapse of memory

But, how did Edwards do during the primary debates?

[ollie3]

85. didn't Edwards support the War during Dem debates?

Will Cheney be so dumb as to ignore this?

I have read above that Edwards is gonna whup Cheney. I will take your word for it. This means, of course, that if Edwards doesn't whup Cheney, he isn't trying to win?

The idol worship among Edwards fans is sickening. I hope he wins. But he doesn't sit on the right hand of God.....

[ollie3]

86. Edwards also supported Patriot Act, actually co-sponsored it

Cheney will also point out attendance record of Edwards. Not pretty. Cheney will HOPE that Edwards brings up son of mill worker meme, as Cheney also has modest roots. I certainly hope that his preparers have gotten him prepared to respond to these, as well as the ambulance chaser meme. I think that Cheney is gonna come out swinging with as much dirt as he can possibly throw in 90 minutes. He is gonna try to paint Edwards his way, and he will also be going after Kerry---he won't just be attacking Edwards. Edwards task is to bring the battle to Cheney before Cheney has a chance to focus on Edwards.