Is it time for Kerry to drop the PNAC bomb?

[TA]

It could once and for all remove the Neocon's from the world of politics. We here at DU and other leftwing blogs know about it and have survived the shock. My guess is only about 30% of the public know of it. I have talked about the PNAC plan to many people who can't accept it as possible. But if Kerry would now put it on the table many of those who cannot believe it might do so. Especially damaging and eye opening is the signatures on the document.

[grannylib]

1. Been wondering about that. General Clark alludes to the PNAC whores

in his speeches, but I have not heard Kerry mention it.

[Scorpious_Maximus]

2. Sure - Why not? (nt)

[Gman]

3. Too many people don't care or even actually

like PNAC.

[kokomo]

45. My Republican family thinks PNAC is a Democratic party dirty trick....

They don't believe such an organization exists, that their website is counterfeit, a leftist plot. How does one convince such folks? And they are all college educated which doesn't seem to matter anymore in Amerika since we no longer require students to reason or to use logic.

[AntiFascist]

47. That's a good sign....

I hope eventually they'll come around.

[mimitabby]

4. so what is it?

[TA]

7. PNAC - Plan for the New American Century

Google it or go to Information-Clearinghouse. The plan is world Imperialism because we are the big dog and deserve all. Spells out preemptive attacks on other countries - SOUND FAMILIAR

[Dees]

23. Project for the New American Century

[arcos]

8. url here...

www.newamericancentury.org

[rlev1223]

11. Best article EVER on neo-cons

A genealogy of the whole neo-con movement, including
deep and wide Murdoch ties. From NY Observer
early 2003

http://www.nyobserver.com/pages/story.asp?ID=7294

[TA]

13. Thanks - Here's another site that covers their bios

Just click on the "heads" to display/read all about them.

http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/index.html

[psychopomp]

41. More bios, more details at the links in my sig

Tis a tangled web and I don't think the public has the attention-span for rooting all of these people out.

Still, it would be good to get the story out on the PNAC'ers broad goals.

[RafterMan]

14. Here's another good one

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20040223&s=lind

[AntiFascist]

5. Yes, do it!!

Plenty of reporters make mention of neo-conservatives, but very few people know the full implications of the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), newameriancentury.org. I say put it out there and let the average joe be surprised that our foreign policy fits into to some master plan, which, it is reported, Colin Powell once described as "crazy."

[PaDem]

6. It's not realistic..........

As disgraceful as the PNAC agenda is, it won't sway voters. Just too complicated for the electorate. Too much to comprehend and process. It really can't be whittled down to a slogan or catchy soundbite. You could pare it down to "US striving to dominate and control the world economy", but more needs to be said. You'd actually have to have the discussion about why this isn't ok. It's just too much for people to grasp. Wes Clark has said as much himself.

[LittleClarkie]

16. It does freak out the occasional Joe Six Pack

Our church secretary's husband, for instance. But indeed, we sound to cuckoo for cocoa puffs when we try to explain this stuff to the average shmuck. Like someone said, it's like we're donning the tinfoil.

It's better to talk about the bits that are easily verifiable from available evidence. He could point out that we are already beating the drum at Iran, for instance. But I wouldn't try to go into the entire Neo-con agenda.

[pacalo]

38. I totally agree! Been there, done that. :)

[AntiFascist]

25. This is where Air America needs to get busy....

They can make their shows entertaining and try to pull in those ratings, but what they really need to do with all their airtime is educate the public about this. Don't go off the deep end, but mention that a "Pearl Harbor event" was predicted and site the web page. Talk about how fear and narrow-mindedness are used to keep America moving in this costly direction.

[PaDem]

28. I think you're on the right track.........

it's becoming more apparent to me as the campaign moves forward how indoctrinated the right is with conservative radio talking points. The impact of Rush, Hannity et al can't be underestimated. We need to have voices as influential and loud from the left that mainstream Americans hear every day. Then, we can educate people about things like this. No campaign can do it.

[Heath.Hunnicutt]

9. He would win more votes to get a cool tattoo.

This election reminds me of a Far Side cartoon:

What they say to voters:

"Neocons are part of a vast corporate military-industrial complex conspiracy dedicated to furthering the militarization of and establishment of a world government."

What voters hear:

"Blah blah detail blah blah blah go army blah blah conspiracy..."

I hate to say it, considering what a proponent of getting the truth out I am. I happen to believe the first statement, but I don't think it plays in Peoria. I just think the candidate has to focus on being a likable dumbass and the intelligentsia of either side can duke it out on-line.

Kerry needs to be more of a likable dumbass.

[RevCheesehead]

37. How about "American Imperialism"...

..brought to you by Halliburton and friends.

[TA]

10. Signatures on letter to President Clinton

Elliott Abrams Richard L. Armitage William J. Bennett

Jeffrey Bergner John Bolton Paula Dobriansky

Francis Fukuyama Robert Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad

William Kristol Richard Perle Peter W. Rodman

Donald Rumsfeld William Schneider, Jr. Vin Weber

Paul Wolfowitz R. James Woolsey Robert B. Zoellick

[LittleClarkie]

22. And on an earlier project paper

Jeb Bush? Cheney? Dan Quayle?

[RafterMan]

12. No

Unless he wants to be called an anti-semitic conspiracy nut.

I say wait untill after the election, then remove the neocons from the world of politics using the FBI. Finding a few of their Likud paystubs should do the trick.

As for these people who "can't accept it as possible", what do they say when you show them the plans on PNACs own website?

[TA]

15. I should have made this a "poll", the responses are interesting

(As for these people who "can't accept it as possible", what do they say when you show them the plans on PNACs own website?)

They don't trust web sites or just say it can't be - this is America. But if someone in the "news" brought it out - then maybe.

[AntiFascist]

26. I really don't understand.....

the anti-semitic argument. Is it somehow programmed into one's genetic makeup that they should support PNAC? It seems that America is much more the target of the terrorists we are fighting than Israel.

[RafterMan]

29. The "anti-semitic" charge is wrong

but used. Here's a mention about how it was used against anti-neocons in general:

"According to Brooks, "To hear these people describe it, PNAC is sort of a Yiddish Trilateral Commission, the nexus of the sprawling neocon tentacles." He writes that "con is short for 'conservative' and neo is short for 'Jewish.'" With this vicious slur, Brooks has now joined Jonah Goldberg, Joshua Muravchik, Joel Mowbray, Robert J. Lieber and other neoconservative writers in accusing all critics of Israel's Likud government and its neoconservative supporters of treating "neoconservative" as a synonym for "Jew." Among those smeared by neocons in this way in the past year are Chris Matthews, William Pfaff, Eric Alterman, Joshua Micah Marshall, Gen. Anthony Zinni and yours truly."

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040223&c=2&s=lind

I don't see the argument being ultimately successful but with only six weeks to go, it could be an effective holding action to muddle any critique.

[AntiFascist]

46. Wow....

thank you for the pointers RafterMan! I have a lot of reading to catch up on. I hope Kerry pays attention to your foundation.

I do want to say that I have seen some "underground" postings, from seemingly brilliant people, talking about a world government whose basis is setup much like that in Israel. I don't know how this relates to neoconservatism, but it sounded scary.

[secular_warrior]

17. Yes. Should've done it a long time ago.

It's not like the neocons are operating in secret. And the way to explain it is not in over-the-top conspiratorial language, but to build a factual case against them, i.e. point out who they are and what they want to do .. it's all there in plain sight... it is the Bush Doctrine. Kerry must confront the Bush Doctrine head on. More than a few pundits have spoken about this. Kerry must not only challenge Bush's failures and policies, but his entire worldview. There is no reason for people to vote for Kerry if all they are going to get is someone who will carry out Bush's policies better than Bush.

[YIMA]

18. I don't think it matters.

At this point, PNAC is either well-placed and strong enough to carry out their agenda or they aren't, it doesn't matter who the president is.

[mountainvue]

19. The majority of folks

won't get PNAC. It won't fit in a soundbite.

[guitar man]

20. Sure, why not

He might just drop the bomb that they have been planning this "war" since at least 1998. He could make the point that in spite of having that much time to plan it, they STILL didn't have an exit strategy. When the whoreporters go huh,1998, sctatching their heads, BAM!!!
PNAC, lay it on them.

[Aunt Anti-bush]

21. Damn right!

It is about time. I'm going nuts wondering why the hell he hasn't unleashed this yet. People who hear this don't believe it for one second, just like you said. I refer them to Dickie's own PNAC website so they can see for themselves. Perhaps Kerry should provide a link to it from his website with some explanation that the American people deserve to know who's been in charge for the past 4 years.

[merbex]

24. Signatures on the PNAC document

I clearly remember (it seems soo long ago now) when I first heard of and found their website. I was shocked and horrified.Amazed at who signed it and all that was happening at the time

Now, the manner in which it is signed horrifies me also; it looks like the signatures at the bottom of the Declaration of Independence.LIKE A REVOLUTIONARY DOCUMENT. The symbolism freaks me out. I want these people out NOW.

Hell yes let Kerry talk about it.The more people see that site the better for us.What they advocate is unamerican and will send us into a decline LIKE ALL EMPIRES

[PVnRT]

27. It would win over people here

as well as those who already know what PNAC is.

Unfortunately, in the real world of politics, he will be portrayed as some kind of conspiracy kook weirdo and will be crucified in the press.

In other words, it's probably not the best idea, because PNAC is something you have to have time to educate people about, and Kerry just doesn't have that kind of time at this point.

[Czolgosz]

32. Do you think there were folks in the '30s saying

"Do you think we should speak out against the Weltherrschaft?"
"No. It's too complicated. The average Josef wouldn't understand."

[zulchzulu]

30. Double-sided PDF flyer about Bu$hCo and PNAC

http://www.kerrysupport.com/media/Bush_PNAC.pdf

Always a conversation starter...

[Misskittycat]

31. I think your 30% estimate is much too high

Except for progressive activists like us, almost no one seems to have heard of it.

[gauguin57]

33. PNAC is the reason we're in Iraq!!!! PERIOD!!

The neocons ... including all the top people in the Bush Admin, including Cheney, had a plan for invading Iraq for their own selfish self-interest way back in 1998!

I first heard about it in March 2003 on "Nightline," and PNAC member Bill Kristol admitted it on that broadcast, and said he would feel partially responsible, as a member of PNAC, when the Iraq war started.

If PNAC been properly publicized at that time, we might not be in the mess we're in! But few other news outlets picked up on it. They were too anxious to beat the drums of war, to get more viewers and please their corporate owners!

Here's the Web site about that Nightline broadcast

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/nightline/DailyNews/pnac_030310.html

Here's my favorite paragraph from that March 2003 broadcast description:

Kristol believes the United States will be "vindicated when we discover the weapons of mass destruction and when we liberate the people of Iraq." He predicts that many of the allies who have been reluctant to join the war effort would participate in efforts to rebuild and democratize Iraq.

Here's a Sunday Herald article about it....

Bush planned Iraq 'regime change' before becoming President

http://www.sundayherald.com/27735

YUP -- NONE OF THIS HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH 9/11 or TERRA!

[gauguin57]

34. When I first heard the "new Pearl Harbor" quote in the PNAC document ...

When I saw the part of the PNAC manifesto that said they wouldn't be able to advance their agenda in Iraq unless another Pearl Harbor-type event occurred ... a manifesto written long before 9/11 ... I knew we were all simply fucked. And that the neocons around Bush were of a type of evil we've rarely seen in civilization.

[misterphelps]

35. They don't get it...

If they don't know about these guys yet, they don't care about the details.

[Mr_Spock]

36. Good idea - too bad most folks can't uptake that much information

and process it. May help a few hundred voters make up their mind and turn off a few thousand who don't like intellectual stuff they can't understand.

[oasis]

39. PNAC=Draft. Armies of occupation will be needed in Syria and Iran.

[eridani]

40. Too policy wonkish for debates--

But definitely use it in speeches where he can go beyond sound bites.

[theHandpuppet]

42. I don't think most Americans would care...

... even when confronted with the truth. Sad to say I'll bet a good portion of them would *agree* with PNAC's goals for the reich... er, 'Murica.

[Pepperbelly]

43. not that much of a bomb, I fear ...

The fragile old cowards who thirst for the blood of our children will not seem relevant to the electorate. Just another DC thinktank. At least that is what I expect the reaction would be.

[mmonk]

44. Beyond time

The window to the truth may already be closed.

[Bullshot]

48. Most of us at DU understand PNAC and its role.

But can you explain it to the average Joe without losing his attention. I'd like to think I can explain things in a concise manner, but when you start talking about things like PNAC, Carlyle Group, First Union Bank or any other corrupt connection with the Bushes, you can see that person's attention fading away, like you're some kind of conspiracy freak.

[mzmolly]

49. I totally agree. It's time to educate voters. I said to a Bush button

wearing fool at the Minnesota State Fair "I hope your ready to invade Iran" ... she looked totally puzzled.