For 9 Months, Obama has set up Dominoes. Now they begin to fall...

[Aramchek]

1) Healthcare w/ Public Option will pass in both the House and Senate

2) Climate Change Bill already passed in House gaining steam in Senate (with some Repuke support even)

3) Economy in Recovery/Job losses slowing/TARP money going to Small Businesses/Fatcats' Salaries at TARP recipients being slashed/Economic Reform legislation in the works

4) Iranians seem to be yielding to Multilateral pressure and agreeing to means of enrichment that assures no potential for Bombs

5) Karzai agreed to runoff, so at least Afghan Leadership will not be declared illegitimate/Obama will announce transition to Anti-Terrorist Strategy with some coop with Taliban

6) Guantanamo Bay will close up shop by early 2010

7) DOMA/Don't Ask Don't Tell will both be repealed in the next year's time

8) We are already out of Iraqi Urban areas, and will be almost completely out by August 2010. WAR IS OVER! (That's a Big One)

9) No European Missile Defense Shield/Unanimous UN Resolution regarding Nuclear Proliferation/Steps toward Disarmament?!?!


and these are just the Major Dominoes. There are all kinds of tangent ones that will be knocked down as these fall.

You will soon see why this President deserved the Nobel Peace Prize.
The Nobel Committee has greater foresight than its critics. Its awards are given based on a Bigger Picture.

This is Change We can believe in!!!

[HopeOverFear]

1. big rec!

[lamp_shade]

2. Sure is. Big fat rec.

[elocs]

3. Well I prefer not to count the dominoes until they have fallen. n/t

[Aramchek]

6. if they were random separate dominoes, that would make sense

but these are all lined up,
as each one falls it increases the chances of the next one falling.
until soon it is inevitable that they all tumble.

It just took master strategy to get the Dominoes situated where the are. ;)

[elocs]

13. I'll believe it all when I see it. The proof of the pudding is in the eating

and not simply smelling the cooking. Results are what count and not just words and promises.

[TheEuclideanOne]

115. Wow, I have never heard that expression used correctly.

Most people use the more common.... "The proof is in the pudding". Although it makes little sense, it has become the more common version of that expression. I just found it interesting and thought that I would mention it. :)

[truedelphi]

137. That's how I see it also.

The fact that we may well be expanding the war in Afghanistan sure makes anything the guy does lose a lot of appeal.

Vietnam, Iraq, now Afghanistan.

How naive I was at the age of nineteen to think that we would ever put an end to our friggin' endless, expensive wars.

[vaberella]

151. The initial plan was to expand the troop level.

Currently we don't know if there will be an increase in troop levels as of yet.

[truedelphi]

169. IN part what discourages me is that we are even having this conversation.

I don't mean you and me, I mean the nation.

After having the distinct honor and privilege of seeing not just the movie, but also Daniel Ellsberg the man, I realize how far as a nation we have fallen.

Tehre was a time when a person like Ellsberg was worshipped as a hero. Someone who had turned around the course of a nation, stood up, at great personal expenxse against the powers of the Toughest Nation on earth, and stepped forward and done the honorable thing.

But Obama has so little awareness of the muck behind the curtains of the Puppet Masters, that he usually just complies.

Though one good word out has been the negotiating with Iran. He is stalling the Powers that Be on that war.

However, I hold out little hope that anything will happen in Afghanistan, other than yet another nation laid to ruin, for the sake of the Oil Pipeline that the CIA's own website once bragged about us being able to install.


And we do not really even need American troops there - as drones can take care of any "mopping" up of extremists that are needed.

[tex-wyo-dem]

26. Bingo! I've been considering this as the big picture strategy for a while now...

And it's not a secet, at least among Washinton insiders and the corpoarte monied elite. They know exactly what's at stake -- that's why they have been pouring so much $$$ and effort in killing HCR. They know it is there first line of defense against more reform not necessarily in their favor in many areas.

Regarding HCR, the PTB knows that if it is successful, public opinion will turn quickly against the status quo on a whole host of issues.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

105. YAH HOO

[ZombieHorde]

131. How does 5 set up 6? nt

[galloglas]

159. And your interpretive abilities

regarding the position of dominoes, and what will will occur in the future, is based upon what, precisely?

[Go2Peace]

59. Some change seems to be finally happening, but I place the reason on people pressure

Our Dem reps were not getting it but now they are starting to because of pressure. Obama "got it" a little more than some but I still think that what is really moving him to *push* further is pressure from those who voted for him.

Sorry, but from what I saw he was a little complacent and then he saw liberals getting very angry, and there was almost a visible change in him and in our reps about the same time too.

It is important we keep the pressure up. Without that, inertia still moves to the status quo.

[NoSheep]

86. we should always keep the pressure on. I believe Obama said "I'll need your help".

or something like that. If we aren't visible, we can be assumed to like the status quo. That's pretty basic.

[SlingBlade]

120. Yep. Pressure always helps

[Grown2Hate]

87. It's been said a million times, but he himself told us this very thing.

"MAKE ME do the right thing", essentially. He feels that he needs the pressure from the people to get these things done, because then he is simply doing the will of the people. I don't know that I necessarily agree completely with his premise (I think his landslide election should have been all the pushing he really needed), but he does appear to be following through, so I can't complain at this point.

[ElboRuum]

130. The premise is this...

For lasting change to occur, the people MUST be involved in the process, rather than electing someone and then not getting involved for the next however many years. This HAS been the nature of politics for the last half-century at least. Pressure from the electorate on both the Executive and Legislative branches must be felt in order for things to get done the way we need them to. Landslide or no, our republic is government by committee, and the President of that committe is but one of many.

Generally, it is unreasonable to expect a politician to do his/her job if...

1) They can avoid it.
2) They can expect no consequence from that avoidance.

I'd get used to the idea of politics as a topic of common concern for people in this country rather than the once-every-four-year indulgence, that is, if we want progress, that is.

[The Hope Mobile]

88. Yup. All of the sudden there were nods to progressives starting in late

September . . . when he gave the health care speech it seemed clear he was starting to realize that this bipartisan thing was a joke and people weren't laughing. It wasn't change we could believe in. Still haven't decided if there's a shift in agenda or just attempts to pacify us.

[northernlights]

101. without people getting angy

Obama wouldn't have had the backing he needed to get the senate to do what we need and want. I hoped he was just goading we the people to action.

Time will tell. I agree that the proof is in the eating. I truly hope this works out...

[bjobotts]

150. Difficult to control outcomes but the planning has forsight.No mention of DoJ

[polly7]

4. K & R

:toast: :toast: :toast:

[inna]

5. KR+25

:with reservations:

[Mike Nelson]

7. Sounds like a plan...

...and, it will get Dems re-elected!

[rhiannon55]

8. Thank you for this post

Our President is the best thing that has happened to this country (and the world) in a very long time.

[Tumbulu]

25. AGREED! (nt)

[PretzelWarrior]

9. it's funny when people prematurely speculate

I'm more referring to the negative nellies who really are progressive and who have high hopes but also see things through a warped negative prism. They are always assuming the worst about Obama and his team.

That said, until Obama works toward end game on some of these things you are talking about, the conniving opponents can out flank his chess strategy. We must hope he and his crew are really up to the task.

Right now, I agree with you that it looks like they are.

[Aramchek]

15. These things will come to pass.

Just as Obama was elected. A miraculous thing that comes to pass because enough of us will it to be.

The Republicans were right about one thing.
This HealthCare Debate is Waterloo.
But they are Napoleon.

This was there big show of arms and they fell pathetically short.
They will be scattered and broken by the time Obama signs this bill.
Especially if they fall into the Opt-out trap (Genius stroke by the way).

They will not be able to stand in the way of this Train once it picks up a head of steam.
Democrats will be emboldened when they see positive public reaction to their success.
They will give Obama the support he needs to change this country for generations to come.

Heywood Floyd: What? What's going to happen?
Dave Bowman: Something wonderful.

[sandnsea]

22. Until Obama works toward the end game??

You must be one of those negative nellies because everything in the OP is in progress and over half way to completion.

[PretzelWarrior]

54. I'm a negative nellie? I thought I was an Obama worshipper.

I guess I didn't get the memo. I'm excited. cautiously optimistic. Feeling much better than a month or 2 months ago.

Many a slip between the cup and the lip as they say, but I am feeling good about that signing ceremony happening before the end of this year.

[mkultra]

79. yeah, you and I both are "cheerleaders" because we dont bash him

[kestrel91316]

10. But, but, I keep hearing on DU that he is a complete and utter failure and

has done NOTHING since he took office.

Kind of odd that I don't even have to go to FR to hear it.

[cliffordu]

21. That's right - the haters are outing themselves as the party of NO sycophants

[dionysus]

29. but,from what i read here he does nothing but drink OE, torture ppl, and do the banksters bidding...

;)

[Bullet1987]

11. For #8

I actually think a big part of Obama's re-election strategy should revolve around his getting us out of Iraq. Or course, how he handles Afghanistan will also play a role.

[RaleighNCDUer]

77. We will be all but completely out of Iraq by 2012. It's a done deal.

The real question is Afghanistan, and if he prevails against the generals.

Of course, in the end he will prevail - he is President. But it won't look like success if he has to fire a half-dozen generals to get there, and if they don't give him the cooperation needed to do anything more than simply pull out the troops.

[winyanstaz]

12. If these things happen I shall be his biggest fan.

[Cronus Protagonist]

14. Items 1, 4, 6, 7, 8 and 9 appear to be more hopeful than factual

Still, I'd like to think they will happen just like you say.

[bkozumplik]

51. and 3 is just false

i dont get how tarp is considered a 'victory' by anyone.
that horse has left the barn long ago. its gone. and it was stolen/given away to thieves. well done congress, you supine pieces of crap.

[denem]

So tell me TARP money is not going to Main Street now,

especially after the announcement. Over time, Eureka after Eureka moments start to like something else.

[Myrina]

73. ... so is # 1 ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4116017

[Emit]

92. Myrina, fwiw, did you see this?

Politico Lies to Pressure Pelosi to drop Robust Public Option
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6839894

6839894, Politico Lies to Pressure Pelosi to drop Robust Public Option
Posted by kpete on Fri Oct-23-09 02:47 PM

Politico Lies to Pressure Pelosi to drop Robust Public Option
by Engine 08

Fri Oct 23, 2009 at 07:10:49 AM PDT

The story leaked by politico’s Mike Allen, that the "robust" public option has no votes in the House is fake and lies solely to pressure the House from proposing it. Luckily it has been immediately and effectively shut down by both the White House and Nancy Pelosi because:

House leadership sources are telling TPMDC they think news on the "robust" public option is leaking out to pressure House Speaker Nancy Pelosi as the health care discussions are getting hotter, and closer to the final deal.
more:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/10/public-option-pressure-as-stories-leak-wh-and-dem-leaders-say-no-decision-has-been-made.php?ref=fpa
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/23/796257/-Politico-Lies-to-Pressure-Pelosi-to-drop-Robust-Public-Option

.................

Public Option Pressure: As Stories Leak WH And Dem Leaders Say No Decision Has Been Made
Christina Bellantoni | October 23, 2009, 8:42AM

House leadership sources are telling TPMDC they think news on the "robust" public option is leaking out to pressure House Speaker Nancy Pelosi as the health care discussions are getting hotter, and closer to the final deal.

Politico's story this morning suggests Pelosi doesn't have the votes, but our sources insist the leadership isn't yet at that stage.

Presidential adviser Valerie Jarrett jabbed at the Politico story while appearing on MSNBC's Morning Joe today, saying of the reporter who penned the piece, "I don't know whether Mike Allen can actually count votes or not."

But House sources think Democrats may have spoken with Allen to apply pressure on Pelosi at this late stage in the game.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/10/public-option-pressure-as-stories-leak-wh-and-dem-leaders-say-no-decision-has-been-made.php?ref=fpa
........................

Pelosi Still Pushing for ‘Robust’ Public Option
By Steven T. Dennis
Roll Call Staff
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:49 a.m.

House Democratic leaders on Friday pushed back against suggestions they have given up on securing the votes for a “robust” public health insurance option.

“Speculation that a final decision has been made about the public option are not accurate,” said Nadeam Elshami, spokesman for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.). “We continue to work with all the members of the caucus to build consensus.”

A leadership aide added, “The votes are still being counted.”

Democratic leaders have struggled for months to find 218 votes for the robust public plan and still appear to be at least a few votes shy. Compounding their problem is that some Members have been threatening to vote no because of other parts of the bill, including its total cost, abortion questions and the taxes on the wealthy and businesses used to finance it.

http://www.rollcall.com/news/39823-1.html

....................

This is not a coincidence. It is a coordinated attack by the opponents of the Public Option. They want to control the story in order to kill the Public Option. I am glad that the quick reaction from the Whitehouse and the House has put that to an end. But they will stop here. Politico's Mike Allen an ineffective Whitehouse reporter for the Washington Post during the Bush administration is back to his old tricks of fake news reporting.
more:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/10/death_by_a_thousand_leaks.php?ref=fpa
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/23/796257/-Politico-Lies-to-Pressure-Pelosi-to-drop-Robust-Public-Option

[Aramchek]

94. our opposition have seen the writing on the wall, and they are afraid

very afraid...

[bkozumplik]

119. who are you talking about when you say opposition

The repubs or the democrats who want to see actual results?

[Aramchek]

139. those who have invested so much of themselves in opposing Obama that they will ignore real progress

out of spite

[galloglas]

161. out of spite??

"out of spite"?? Democrats? Here at DU?


Twisted, Mister?? :wow:

[Aramchek]

93. that OP is BS

just you wait and see...

[bkozumplik]

147. its not all wait and see

Things have gone on already, and not gone on when they should. Its not that we dont have any data at all but things are trending well. We have data. We have had points of opportunity. We have had clear and present duty issues. Have you looked at Baucus' bill? who put him in that position and why is he still there? Why isnt he sacked? Did you pay attention to Obama negotiating with the heads of the medical companies?

How about the house Banking group? have you seen their work? Barney Frank's recent work impresses you does it? who put him there, and why the hell is he still there?

And the problems of corporate money buying our politics.. that problem has recently magically disappeared? Do you know how much money we are talking about? leadership has sprung up out of vacuum, and while theres tremendous dollar pressure to do this deal badly, it will be done well, real soon, you are thinking?

So the reason I am doom and gloom (someone above claimed it was "fear") is because the underlying reasons for things going awry arent being addressed, and we have a pattern of things appearing to be going in the right direction, but then the results never quite seem to appear. And I know things take time, but really, the health care process so far is no reason for encouragement, or the kind of faith you guys are showing. Same with the bailout. Same with the wars. Same with the financial system refit, or lack thereof.

We are spending *a lot* of energy here fighting against each other, when really the best use of our energy should be focussed outward, demanding that we get what we want, and promising to not e-elect any officials who wont give it. Thats the only thing our leaders can possibly be really motivated by beyond money. Marches, letters, phone calls, those mean little. Our inluence to them is every 4 years, and thats it. The farther they are from an election cycle, the less they are beholden to us at all. Thats representitive democracy. Their game today is that they need to create the appearance of victory, or at least having put up a noble fight, without having an actual victory. That way their corporate donors win, we've fought the good fight, and they get re-elected. Can you see that?
Just follow the money, and the power.

And when all you cheerleaders shoot down anyone who is trying to raise a stink and make demands, you aren't helping our country. Which do you think helps more, a pissed off base making demands, inspiring fear in the members of our leadership-- or a base thats making all kinds of noise about giving the politicians space, and "we have your back". Do you think they will do the right thing more often if they are scared of being tossed out on their ass if they give too much away, or if they feel like their constituents have their back and will cover and rationalize for whatever happens. Hand those cheerleading people a half victory, and your political career survives. Hand a demanding base a half victory, and your arse gets bounced down the steps.
We can be either a demanding base, or cheerleaders, but we have to pick one. Our party is a house divided.

So cheerleaders, dont have peoples backs. thats not as helpful as holding feet to fires with threats of removal. State what you want and make no bones about getting rid of anyone who isnt going to represent your interests in politics. Its not about personalities. Its about issues and getting things done.

ITs not about Obama. I know its easier to think in that context, and yeah, he's a great guy. I bet he'd be awesome dinner conversation and an inspiration to work with. But focus on the issues. Politics needs to be focussed like a laser on the issues. Cults of personality get nothing done in the end. This is one of the key problems with the American electorate, and why there are so many republicans in the first place. People here dont actually vote to represent their issues, they vote for a host of meaningless side issues.
Whats the candidates race? sex? had affairs? good looking? big ears? nerdy Deanscream? would you have sex with said candidate? would you have a beer with the candidate? does he/she seem snooty to you? Those are somehow key points for us. Id love it to be about: Is this guy going to lead us where we need to go. Our needs get greater all the time.

[galloglas]

160. True that. n/t

[wroberts189]

16. Sounds good to me. knr

[madokie]

17. I voted for him twice because I felt he was the best choice I had

and I'm very happy with that decision. Screw the naysayers, ain't got my pony yet crowd.

[mkultra]

80. +1

[juno jones]

18. K&R!

PS: Love your user name!

[depakid]

19. Only one thing to say:

Show me the policies put into place and/or show me the results.

Until then, to quote Granny Hawkins: "all that big talk's worth doodly squat."

[IrateCitizen]

72. +1

Also, the OP forgot about the impending escalation of Afghanistan, that "graveyard of empires"....

[cliffordu]

20. Big fat rec for the faithful and an additional shout out

to the haters.

Looks a little different from this perspective, don't it???

[safeinOhio]

23. I'm telling ya

his face will be on Mt Rushmore.

[phleshdef]

24. Hell yea, I love how many recs this simple, to the point and undisputably truthful post has gotten

[Clio the Leo]

27. I have noticed that here at DU....

.... loud doesn't = numerous.

.... and vice versa. ;)

[depakid]

46. You have a strange definition of "truth"

Get back to the rational among us when the points have actually come to pass. Until then- you're counting chickens- or acting like a team that's celebrating before they've won the game(s).

That's a dangerous thing- as any coach (or wise player) will tell you.

[phleshdef]

60. Don't make sports analogies and try to tell me you are rational.

And don't get all butt hurt because your constant bashing and whining is resulting in multiple eggs all over your face.

You can't dispute that the items in the OP are either obviously in motion or very likely about to be.

[depakid]

109. Make a ridiculous statement about "truth" and then bash the person noting it

All the while projecting.

Nicely done.

The items in the OP may or may not occur. And the probability of their happening is arguable. THAT'S A FACT.

When they're accomplished, one by one- then people can celebrate. Until then there's a lot of work to be done.

[Aramchek]

112. Until then, there's alot of naysaying to be done, eh?

and even then you'll probably say that doing nothing is better than what Obama does...

[depakid]

122. Skepticism and caution isn't naysaying

It's a reflection of experience (and time in the trenches) with these sorts of things. It's also a good way to avoid disillusionment.

[ElboRuum]

132. How depressing...

...basically what you're saying is "if you never get your hopes up, you'll never be disappointed."

Thanks, but no thanks. I'll risk the disappointment if I get to have the hope.

As if disillusionment is the worst thing that could happen to a human being.

[phleshdef]

142. Go ahead and continue to willfully r ignore the many balls that are rolling...

...I realize that it helps feeds your insatiable desire to be negative and all emo about it and shit. If being butt hurt and unwilling to accept all the great things that are painfully obviously in motion makes your world better, go for it.

[mkultra]

81. You have spent that last few months bashing his policies as failures

before they even landed. You need to take some of your own advice.

[Tarheel_Dem]

28. Rec #80. (nt)

[jonnyblitz]

30. aaah, he isn't pulling out of Afghanistan NOW on your list. tsk tsk.

all else is mooooot otherwise. :o

[Number23]

31. Rec #90! Work it, Aramchek!

:)

[Amonester]

32. 10) America is now the #1 most respected country in the world.

(I think I saw that somewhere recently, if I am not mistaken.)

Alright, Health Care, as it NOW still is, continues to be the laughing-stock of the civilized world where Health Care And Prevention is a Human Right, but that MIGHT 'improve' a bit soon... (If only a lot MORE elected Dems begin to realize Rep. Grayson's way is THE WAY they'll keep their majorities...)

[bertman]

33. Nice list. I hope you're right. Even six out of nine would be good.

[TankLV]

34. Sorry - nice WISH list - but NOT ONE of these things has been ACCOMPLISHED - NOT A SINGLE ONE!!!

Sorry, but I will "celebrate" only AFTER some of this comes true...

...if wishes were fishes...

[cliffordu]

36. Aw, wassa matta??

Constipated??

:hurts:

[NYC_SKP]

45. Eh...

...probably didn't even vote last November. :eyes:

:P

[cliffordu]

50. Yep.

[cherokeeprogressive]

37. LOL and here I thought I was the only one who noticed.

1. Hasn't
2. Hasn't
3. New unemployment claims increased last month
4. I'll give you that one
5. Possible work in progress
6. Hasn't
7. Hasn't, probably won't
8. Hasn't
9. The Russians announced a policy of "pre-emptive" nuclear strikes http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/14/world/main5384090.shtml

[mkultra]

82. thats the think about being a naysayer.

You have to eat crow while everyone celebrates.

[Twinguard]

35. k & r

[drm604]

38. K&R

:kick:

[Catshrink]

39. I knew it: Rope-A-Dope

he's been playing Rope-A-Dope all along.

[Lyric]

40. Dominoes? I thought this was chess!!!

Man, you people need to have a meeting or something and get this game thing straight.

:grr:

[Solomon]

67. It's three dimensional dominoes.

Too deep for some to understand.

[demwing]

117. you people?

what do you mean by "you people" ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAlVKgl_zCQ

[eridani]

41. A public option is a political liability if implementation is postponed until 2013

The shit will really hit the fan when the people who want in on it won't be allowed in, except for 5%.

[Jim Sagle]

42. Oh please, oh please, oh please make it so!

:thumbsup:

If even half this stuff occurs, I'll zap every negative thought I ever had about him.

[slay]

43. I hope this is the case

I have to admit I am feeling more and more optimistic of late. Doesn't mean I will stop criticizing Obama when I think he's headed the wrong way - but he said he wants us to push and challenge him - and when I see him doing great things, I am more than happy to cheer the steps forward and gladly recommend this thread. :)

[NYC_SKP]

44. Big Rec! Great Analogy...

Thanks tons for posting this!

:yourock:

[Surya Gayatri]

47. Major K & R !

Never underestimate this POTUS' capacity for mobilizing people to do the right thing. What a force of nature! SG

[FedUp_Queer]

48. Male Cow Excrement

Obama has "closed" Gitmo and expanded Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan. Why you ask? Why to hold people therein communicado whilst arguing they have no habeas right. Sound familiar? Oh...he's spending $60 million to expand its size. How about we just cut to the chase and call it Gitmo-Asia?!?! Some "change." it's Bush all over again.

[Aramchek]

49. "it's Bush all over again." = FAIL!!!

[shadowknows69]

63. Ah, cute internet retorts. How utterly overused and boring.

[Aramchek]

95. not as overused as saying Obama = Bush, that is a naysayer specialty

[Barrymores Ghost]

157. So, I should assume that you agree that Obama = Bush?

Ah. How sub-moronic. Please, feel free to start your own revolution.

[Scarsdale Vibe]

121. Instead of expanding Bagram they should summarily execute prisoners on the battlefield.

Wouldn't want anyone disingenuously conflating Bagram and Guantanamo, best not to take prisoners.

[galloglas]

141. You mean, just GOP 'em to death? n/t

[HughMoran]

138. Ass hole n/t

[Barrymores Ghost]

156. Fuck off, pod sleeper.

And if you don't get my jist, feel free to PM me. I'll clue you in.

[katkat]

52. notice the nice timing

Notice the nice timing:

1. Medical marijuana okay, then while a certain segment was starting to froth at the mouth about leniency on drugs
2. Major drug bust on Mexican drug cartel operating in the US.

Even though I think all drugs should be legal (because then they'd be cheap and the crime rate to get money for them would plummet, and after all, how different is it from alcohol), I have to admire this handiwork.

[Whisp]

89. I've noticed the nice timing on all on the list...

and there will be more coming in the next couple weeks like the additions you made on your list.

Just like the Obama style during the election.... lay low in the background while the others yammer at each other and meanwhile work your buns off behind the scenes and look intentionally like you aren't really player matter. Then, bam! all his and his people's work come into fruition in a blast of heat and light.

For months now we've been hearing the moaning and pissing about he's weak, he's afraid, he's a shill, he's over his head, he's not doin' nuttin', if soandso was pres then I bet things would have been all done by now! - all that crap.

This man knows how to get things done and is a master at playing how human nature works.

[SlingBlade]

123. Yep

[Kind of Blue]

53. Rec #125 n/t

[JDPriestly]

55. Hope you are right.

What about wiretapping? What about prosecutions for torture?

What about the domination of our government and the Fed by Goldman Sachs?

Those are things that are not mentioned here. Yet they are things that Obama could pretty easily take care of -- more easily than getting complicated environmental and health care insurance legislation through both houses of Congress.

[Hekate]

56. I am so appreciating your optimism, Aramchek!

:hi:

From your keyboard to God's eyes.

Hekate

[uponit7771]

57. Haters: "...well he aint solved world hunger yet so..."

[sohndrsmith]

58. There is one unequivocal thing I have learned from/about Obama:

When the murmurs of skepticism about his abilities grow into clamors, he has consistently shown the doubters up - time and again. It often happens, too, after a period of time lapsing that we decide and "expect" he should do such and such, or simply chime in, and he doesn't, so we get anxious. Then - hello! He pulls through - when it's the right time, the right presentation, and he's right....

The other thing I've learned is that he is FAR smarter than I am (certainly), likely most on the hill, and clearly those in the media.

Whether the OP is a "wish list" or not, I'm very confident that this President is waaaaay ahead of most of us, and my confidence based on historical evidence, I think 9 months is a ridiculously short time to determine - anything.

Time lines and dates my not be exact for this or that, but in my opinion, President Obama has earned my confidence that I'd be childish to discard at this point, and I give him a lot of credit for that. I resist complaining when he doesn't react or answer to things as I want him to, as the media decries he "should" - because he's very different.

He's a highly intelligent, honorable leader and he's not about to act in some way simply because we expect it. I believe in this President, primarily because he's shown me I have every reason to do so.

That's my take, anyway...

[bkozumplik]

61. wow thats a relief.

Because everything else has been equivocated. good that *something* is unequivocal.
phew. I Was damn worried there for a while. A long while actually.
I was horrifically worried about the dollar (I think a lot of people have no idea) , I was worried about our foreign policy, and I was worried about the rule of law. I was worried about the influence of corporate interests, and I was worried about the weird jingoistic influence of our perpetually standing military.
I was worried that all the hope speeches would at the end of the day amount to little-- maybe an environmental bill here or there-- the classic Washington easy-half-accomplishment people try to hang their hats on later-- while failing to make any unified environmental policy.
I had been that we might end up squandering a chance to really save our country. Ever feel like things are not trending well? like you know theres a bottom someplace? I was worried about that, but then I read these posts.

I was worried that my preexisting condition might no longer be covered as well as it has been in the past. I won't even go into my worries about that!

Things in this country are cyclical, so I am relieved that we are in the period where we are really getting tons of things done we need to get done, because trust me, we wont stay in power forever. As long as this country stands, thats how this place works. We will probably get 8 years out of this group, but who really knows. We might fragment our own party if we aren't careful, and then it'll be a 3 way fight instead of an easy two way. that'd suck.
(Every one of you naysayers better get in line, and get with the program. If we fragment we are done.)

I'm glad all that bailout money was well used, is accounted for, even though the bills were written specifically so no accounting could ever take place. The payoffs worked. The derivatives bubble is now re-inflated, so theres no more problems. Its obvious that strong banking bills are in the works. It won't be a bunch of watered down literally useless tripe. We will make sure our banking system is sound, honest, and transparent, because the world needs to know we do business seriously and aren't a bunch of clowns. Congressman Barney Frank has that well in hand, and has started to deliver absolutely stunning results. I felt like I'd been tazered when I saw how good it was! It was well worth the long wait, just like health care.

Ever have one of those years when the government borrows basically a whole years GDP for a war or a bailout, and forgoes any oversight, because someone somewhere got paid? ( I'm just trying to explain why I was such a naysayer before-- I'm working myself up to a big apology for my ever harboring doubts. I hope you will all be kind enough to accept.)

Or when we run interference for ruthless murderous theocracies here or there, or generally go about killing brown people for half baked reasons? Or maybe because some land that other people live on is THEIRS according to some holy decree?
Maybe I worried too much in the past, but thats over. I was so damned naive its embarrassing now to look back on it. what a dummy! things have always been in good hands, since the election, as proved irrefutably by your list. Thanks for compiling it. I had worried about congress too-- they seem to have been bought out, and do a lot of kabuki theater which accomplishes nothing in the end but burn time, but they appear to now be doing real stuff, and not just theater. Thats perfectly clear now. Couldn't be more clear.

The three dimensional chess pieces are obviously moving as you say, and Obama is obviously smarter than you, as you claim. He wont disappoint, and if he does, we can just tell those whiny progressive bitches that no, everyone cant have a pony, or world peace, and grow the hell up. Because thats the *real world* right. We talk about hope, and getting things done, but we all live in the real world, so we will take what we are given and like it, and we will trust our leaders, because they don't fail us, consistently, ever-- and if they do its because we failed to hold their feet to the fire with phone calls, letters, and petitions. Its our job to use fantastically effective measures to make sure they do their jobs. And its our job to get in line and stay in line, and believe, because believing pays off. Ask any religious group.

And, its better than Republicans-- even though thats the lowest of the low bars to measure ourselves by. We arent republicans. We also arent flesh eating zombies, or a shipwrecked group of hardened criminals raping each other. We can be proud that we aren't any of those things, and that Obama is not Bush.

thanks for the post. I will stop worrying, and have a little faith that things will turn out for the best. I think I might even write a nasty gram or two to some of the people around here who are always bringing everyone down, being non-believers. what a bunch of ridiculous troglodytes they are! they are stupid and ugly, and don't deserve to be here. They dont even deserve to be Democrats. They should start the whiner party. They could put a W next to their name, and they can go blog elsewhere!

They infuriate me so much. Goodnight, fellow believers. I am going to go sleep like a drugged baby. I am relieved, and I look forward to more diaries about our various triumphs. We should build an Arc de Triomphe, in fact. Because the fight for liberal ideas and progressive ideas has been won already. And We did it together, my compatriots. Together.

I have seen victory. Its coming very very very soon. Any second now. The corporate money was all defeated, by sheer goodwill. Its basically a miracle.

[Hekate]

108. Did you forget your sarcasm smiley? nt

[bvar22]

116. Well done.

LOL.
:patriot:

[galloglas]

164. And it WAS easy, wasn't it ??

:thumbsup: :toast:

[shadowknows69]

62. David Axelrod is that you?

You forgot where he walked on water.

[HamdenRice]

64. Thanks for this! nt

[old mark]

65. Rec. Great post. nt

[sellitman]

66. I'll believe # 1 when I see it.

Here's to hoping!

[midnight]

68. AC do you know what type of Public Option will pass. Is it the watered down

version where we will be demanded to buy insurance? I'm not sure that the clarity in this bill is all that believable? Anyone else have more details to add?

I wish that darn war was over.. When all the killing stops, it will be.... Bring them home....

[Peacetrain]

69. I am on the same page as you my friend... Kick

:kick:

[OneGrassRoot]

83. +1 K&R n/t

[CoffeeCat]

70. I know that Obama is different...

Obama is not your garden-variety, paid-off politician. He IS different.

When he was running for President, there was a huge background article on him. He
was described, by his peers in the Senate, and someone who didn't run the DC cocktail
circuit. Apparently, he spent a lot of time by himself, with his family and also
working out. I think he stayed above the fray, and I think he saw how awful and
corrupt government was.

Furthermore, Obama was tapped to run by the Kennedys and John Kerry. They leveraged
him. Those are the good guys. The guys who have fought against the neocons for decades.
They know the score. They see what is happening and they know our democracy is at risk.
Those endorsements speak volumes.

Obama is dealing with raging psychopaths who are drunk on their own political positions
and completely corrupt. He's also dealing with a system that has gone completely awry.
Change is not going to happen overnight. If it is going to happen, it's got to be
the President leading--and others inside deciding to change too. That's what I see now.
Obama offering a steady hand...a moral hand and an opportunity for those who are tired
of the neocon (Reps and DLC) crimes. Unfortunately, our system is so corrupt, one
person, even a President, can't demand change. The powers that be will quiver and
start bashing, lying, using the media to destroy you, etc. Obama is slowly making
change from within...I do see this.

Lastly, Obama is a very smart and enlightened man. He is a good and decent person. Unlike
George Bush, Obama has a moral compass. That gives me peace and faith that he is driving
us out of all of this darkness.

It's just going to take some time. Obama is dealing with very powerful forces that
are comprised of a bunch of dysfunctional and pathological creeps and cowards. Anyone
ever have a psychopath or a sociopath for a boss--in middle management? It's hell on
Earth. Obama is dealing with an entire system that "employs" hundreds of these types.

Thanks for your post. There is reason for a great deal of hope and there is reason to be
patient--while we fight for change.

[Kaleko]

149. Wonderful post. It deserves its own rec.

[Fiendish Thingy]

71. I'll agree that the dominoes are lined up...

where as before Obama, the dominoes were in the box, on a shelf, collecting dust.

I'll even grant that a few of the dominoes are starting to wobble (Gitmo, Iran talks, stimulus benefits), and one item, executive pay cuts, looks like a done deal. I can keep hoping for a little bit longer...

[Myrina]

74. ... and just as with the appointment of Geithner, Gates,

... TARP, "Insurance company executives aren't bad people", more troops headed to Afghanistan, etc etc ... it looks like those dominoes are set to clunk down with a big thud on all us common folk's heads.

Again.

And we're supposed to say "Thank you sir, may I please have some more?"

[mkultra]

84. TARP?

[bighart]

75. The statement about fatcat salaries at TARP reciepient firms is only partially true.

It only impacts the top 7 companies that received the funds from what I read. While the may be the easiest to target, what about all the other firms, should they no be subjected to the same regulation?

[uponit7771]

78. My understanding is the bonuses in ALL of the companies will be paid out in stock not in cash...

...that's the bigger difference.

Now the people have an incentive to keep the company afloat and not tank it.

[bighart]

96. He specifically referenced salaries in the op.

Salaries and bonuses are not the same thing. Salaries for top execs at the 7 companies that received the largest amount of TARP funds are being restricted but that is as far as the salary restrictions go.

[Aramchek]

106. how about I use the word 'compensation' then?

[bighart]

133. My question still stands.

[LynneSin]

76. War isn't quite over - we still have that mess in Afghanistan however....

I couldn't be more happier than to recommend this thread.

I never expected Obam to be perfect but compared to what we had for 8 years - Obama is SOLID GOLD to me

:woohoo:

[info being]

85. But none of those things have happened?

I'm lost.

[Piewhacket]

90. When will he restore civil libeties, repeal patriot act, arrest war criminals?

In the meantime,
wake me when he actually accomplishes one of those things
starting with health care with a non-bullshit public option in it.


and BTW:
The Nobel Committee is sometimes late, but never wrong.

[harun]

99. My big domino's:

* Ending Cuba embargo, normalizing relations
* Single Payer Health Care
* Making higher education more accessible and affordable to Middle/Lower class
* Making housing more accessible and affordable to Middle/Lower class
* Reducing military spending
* Ending occupation of Iraq
* Ending occupation of Afghanistan
* Closing Guantanamo Bay
* Capping Credit Card interest rates
* Getting electric cars available for sale (not lease)
* Building new high speed rail routes
* Break up Corporate Media

[Piewhacket]

104. Well get in line...

just kidding. :hi:

Its a good list, that is, a good start.
Obama has a lot to do. WE got a lot to do.

The money problem is, however, overwhelming...
The enemy of America has too WAY too much money in American politics.

500 million dollars can elect a president, and goldman sachs
BONUSES this year are TEN TIMES THAT. In a war of money, they just got more.
Cenk just did a clip on how to buy a politician. The money, oh the money..
would educate our children, and heal our sick... what animal would take the money?
Some animals do.

Still we elected obama and dems, bravo for us, democracy may be in intensive care
but it still has a heartbeat. Yet we did not elect enough progressives.
in fact, some of those dems we elected... aren't really dems at all.

shocked? well of course.
if they are bought, what does it matter what party they are in?

So, ITS THE MONEY! WE MUST FIX THE MONEY PROBLEM or we will never get the most
basic justice. Campaign finance must got to the top of the list.
Fix that, and everything on your list is fixed.
By comparison though, health care reform is easy.

[KansDem]

91. Reco-roonie!

:woohoo:

[nightrain]

97. let's also find out how many military contractors are still in the countries that we have invaded

before the celebrating begins...

[donco6]

98. I think this was supposed to be in the pot thread. N/t

[nvme]

100. We Americans are unused to long-term strategy

market fluctuations, Daily interest rates, Quarterly profits, these are what we measure progress with. I share in the guilt. The 24 hour news cycle has a direct influence. I can name a number of times where,I, as the rude pundit once said"shit blood". The stakes are such that, the ramifications will be felt beyond this generation. We must keep the pressure ratcheted on these congressional ass-mongers. I am glad the president is smarter than I. I am glad he is more mature than I. I don't want to feel comfortable having a beer with the POTUS. Sorry folks I look for a leader not a pal. I am gaining in my optimism. thanks for your post.

[Auggie]

102. +1

[Phx_Dem]

103. I don't think I've seen so many recs. Nice post!

[Number23]

153. I know! 352 as of this post!! The only post that's gotten more recs lately was his Nobel Prize

announcement.

And the same folks bitching in that one are (GASP!!) the same ones bitching in this one too! Quelle suprise!! :eyes:

[graywarrior]

107. Wish I could rec this again and again

Great post.

[AtheistCrusader]

110. By itself, repealing Don't Ask/Don't Tell isn't a good thing.

Need something in addition, so the military doesn't start up witch hunts for gay people again. If that 'something' that protects gays in the military exists, or is in the works, I haven't seen it yet.

[pollo poco]

111. hooray! n/t

[rucky]

113. Bookmarked for future scorekeeping. n/t

[Jester Messiah]

114. Happily K&R'd!

Glad to see this country headed back in the right direction!

[AllyCat]

118. You are more optimistic than I . I hope you are right, but

I don't think most of this has come to pass...only been talked about in the media. If even 2 of these things actually happen, I will be surprised.

[NYC_SKP]

124. Kick. I love when a good post makes the Home Page!

:toast:

[SlingBlade]

125. Well, This is the HOPE, Couple that with

our own responsibilities which is to keep pressure on our Representatives and I believe
that all of these things WILL come to pass.

K & R :)

[ginnyinWI]

126. like all intelligent Presidents, he thinks long-term

and isn't affected by the day to day politics of personal destruction. The proof will be in the pudding and it will shout louder than the loudest critics.

[felinetta]

127. President Obama: the consummate chess player.

[Tx4obama]

145. I agree whole heartedly. n/t

[Mme. Defarge]

128. Formidable!

Or, as we say in English -- WOOT!

[paulkienitz]

129. In this way, Obama is like Lincoln

...who took a compromising, halfhearted, incremental approach to the slavery problem, and ended up achieving its abolition.

[newtothegame]

134. Haha is this like the great intergalactic chess game posts? n/t

[Celeborn Skywalker]

135. I hope so.

I'll consider his presidency a success if he can accomplish 1/3 of that list. He has a full plate, that's for sure.

[Ilsa]

136. Hey, SNL: Take that and shove it! nt

[Sabien]

140. but...what about losing the olympics?

man, that was so..........SWEET!

:sarcasm:

[Tx4obama]

144. It just might be a good thing...

Considering that someone might have planned an attack at the games it might be a good idea that the USA didn't get the games this time until things are more stable. And in the future when the USA 'do not fly' airline lists are not so messed up.

Just look at the problems that they are having in Rio right now with all the killings and even a helicopter being shot down.
They are going to have massive problems in Rio keeping everyone 'safe' there during the games.

[davidwparker]

143. Truly, I hope you are right.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

146. Obama is being held to higher standard than any other

president. The expectations for exceptionalism are so high they seem based on myth rather than reality.

I for one am grateful and impressed with the achievements he and his staff have made so far. Obama
is working his ass off and at the very least given that it has been nine short months I think he deserves
our support and appreciation. A year to a year and a half from now criticisms may be deserved, but at
this point he's getting enough grief from the Right and doesn't deserve the same from the people that
elected him.

[BumRushDaShow]

154. +10,000 n/t

[WinkyDink]

148. Awesome post! Great summary!

[vaberella]

152. You're right and good stuff listed. n/t

[mr_show_time]

155. Hahaha!

I like your sense of humor! Now, where's the real stuff?

[galloglas]

158. Aren't you hugely embarrassed to have to post THAT list.

Count your numbered points. Of the nine, only one and a half are actually done (nine and the first half of #8)! You have attempted to trumpet the accomplishments of the Administration and failed at the task. Yet, in closing your OP, you say "This is Change We can believe in!!!"

You list nine items, of which seven and one half have not actually changed. Surely that cannot have been your intent? If these are the "accomplishments" of the first 8 months in office, and you think it a compelling body of work, I suggest you put in a "A Portuguese dog ate my other work" excuse for Obama to hand to the teacher because I fear there are a huge number of people on all sides of the political center who do not consider the work product very large. And they will be the judges of sufficiency or lack there of and the validity of reasons (like GOP tactical and strategic obstinacy) that have prevented more being done.

However, if it was your intent to provide a list reflecting Obama's hard work and successful accomplishments, I fear you grossly missed the mark. Your list doesn't make Obama look like the exceptionally productive leader you claim he has been but, instead, a President who needs others to make up excuses for him, by compiling lists of unfulfilled promises masquerading as significant accomplishments. Next time I suggest that you choose nine things that are actually finished.

Your approach, your cheer leading, your posting of denigrations to honestly skeptical posters (i.e., calling them "haters"), your apparent blindness to the realities in front of you (and all of us) is so reminiscent of GWB and his Goebbels-esque Press apparatus that it is truly frightening.

GWB's Press Secretary might, in those days, have trotted out a dog turd in a gift box, showing it to a gushing press corps led by Fox Noose, and waving a silken kerchief over and over it, while intoning "Watch this. Look what we've done for America!", and then pulling back the kerchief to reveal the very same dog turd, only now a few minutes older, drier and smellier.

The Press Corps would then go "Ooooh!" and "Ahhhh!", bowing and scraping obsequiously, because they were expected to... or they might not be invited back. Or they might be ridiculed, as you yourself have done to some questioners here at DU, as "haters", for not adhering to some delusional party line where white is black and black is white if Bush or Obama says it is. (disclaimer: The black is white, white is black comparison reflects no consciousness of race. Only reflective ability for light. So Freepers, or other Troll assassins... don't even think about it!).

Perhaps Obama would prefer, and be better served by, a different approach. I am sure he would prefer a list, unlike Bush, where the claimed accomplishments are matched by real world deeds. He is already daily attacked by the Rightists and Corporatists for things which have no basis in fact (Orly Taitz claims his Birth Certificate is from Saturn or wherever, etc.) so, consequently, he surely has no need for his supposed supporters to be making claims that are 1) premature 2) subject to change or revision, or 3) supposedly good news but likely to be viewed later as mistakes (think of the handling of TARP monies, bonuses, etc.), resulting in further falsehoods, misinformation, and ignorance being dumped into the public forum,.

So, perhaps, if you can't get a real list of nine good things accomplished, you should maybe hold your breathe, refrain from publishing personal wish lists and your personal positive interpretations of what may come to be someday, and give the POTUS a break.

Personally, I feel that if Obama is going to disappoint me by either word or deed then I should give the man both the opportunity and the responsibility to do the job himself before I start complaining about his performance, or lack thereof. He doesn't need or deserve starry-eyed sycophants making up "almost wish lists" of soon-to-be-accomplished beneficial changes that "we can believe in" of the type shown in this OP. As Bush said, "its hard work", so Obama doesn't need supporters who cannot shed their rose colored glasses constantly raising the expectations of others, with a less clouded viewpoint, while continually raising the bar for Obama and saying to all of the others "look how high he is going to jump this time!"

Believe me, its not helping him. That mantra is only a benefit to those sucking from the Kool-Aid Bowl.


Change I can believe in? I'll believe in change only when something DOES change! So let's look at the items in the OP list and see how much actual change is there. That quantity of change is basis for our belief in the POTUS, isn't it? Isn't that why you posted it?

#1) is only your prediction of what you believe will happen. Nothing has changed yet.

#2) your interpretation, I believe? Nothing has changed yet.

#3) No recovery for the Little Folks, though? Only corps? / TARP to small business? An announcement of intent, spoken this week, nothing else / "Fatcats salary.. slashed" helps Americans how, and how much? / "Economic Reform legislation in the works" means Nothing has changed yet.

#4) "Iranians seem to be yielding". Again, your interpretation. You do not speak of the Israelis who don't seem to care for your interpretation and are prepared to take military action early next year.
So, have we solved our problems with Iran? No. We simply stopped standing still on diplomatic contact as Bush had. But what more do we have now than before? A bit of Pandora's Hope. Nothing has changed yet.

#5 "Afghan Leadership will not be declared illegitimate". You know this how? A State Dept memo? Crystal Ball? Gen. McChrystal Ball? BTW, can I interview your Taliban contact? I am not sure they know they will be co-opping with the CIA, instead of killing them. Oh, yes, the question.

Has Obama changed policy in Afghanistan yet? Are you channeling him? Is there any fait accompli noted in item #5 of your OP that represents good change brought about by Obama? Nothing has changed yet.

#6) Guantanamo? Nothing has changed yet.

#7) Don't ask, don't tell. Next year? OK. Give Obama credit. THEN. Nothing has changed yet.

#8) Well, out of Iraqi big cities. I'll give you half for no particular benefit it gives the US, but Bush was already on that track. So, is it Obama's good stroke. Who cares, because the small yes is outweighed by the huge NO WAY!! earned by the extrapolation you make going from "we left the cities" to "out by August 2010. WAR IS OVER!".

That is almost a reverse Chicken Little conclusion, taking one tiny piece of non-pertinent information and drawing the conclusion that we are "out by 8/2010. WAR IS OVER!" The only difference is that Chicken Little thought the sky was falling and you think it has opened up and is letting the great bounty of Peace and Justice flow, unchecked, over the Biblical Land of the Two Rivers. But that begs this question.

Out by 8/2010? Does that mean everybody? Maybe some Embassy Guards left? Oh, some support troops? And do the private armed contractors go, also? And how many Americans in the Big Embassy? And altogether that makes how many?

So, we leave Iraq by 8/2010. Completely gone. But what percent of the Americans will still be there after they are gone in 2010 (I know, how can they go and still be there:dilemma:)? Let's see. If 100,000 remain, and X many are there now, that is Y per cent who go that are gone and Z per cent how go home in 2010, but stay there. Right?

Same goes for money. If we leave in 8/2010, we won't be in Iraq to spend money anymore. Right. So how much did we spend from 8/2009 to 8/2010? And how much will we spend between 8/2010 and 8/2011? The year you say we are "almost completely out" Iraq and the "WAR IS OVER!" It should be $0.00, right? But how many will we actually spend.

Aramchek, you must remember this. Nothing has changed yet.

Do you really want Obama to be given credit for the aftermath of a war GWB engineered? I'm sure Obama doesn't.

#9) OK, I'll give you this one, but it is the work of more than Obama. But I give him his due on this. You I cannot credit with help for Obama with this OP. You, desperate to boost your hero's image, have been forced to be (even if you claim it inadvertent) dishonest with your readers. You cite these nine items as "dominoes" Obama has set up and that he will masterfully knock them down along with others around it. Yet careful parsing of the nine items shows Obama can only claim credit for one and a half. When that is his nine month record, you would do him more good to resort to touting his abilities and potential, rather than his record of accomplishment. Simply because the accomplishments are not there.

I fear you have done the POTUS a disservice.

[bkozumplik]

162. lol

oh god.. thats....funny..

[mr_show_time]

163. Cut the OP some slack

It's a wish list, not an actual list of accomplishments. Right, Aramchek? Right?!?!

[Aramchek]

166. May you piss yourself as each objective is accomplished, mr_15_posts!!!

[galloglas]

168. Thank God I can hold my water !

[IrateCitizen]

165. If I could recommend a reply in a thread, I'd recommend this one!

:thumbsup:

But I hope you're not expecting rational-critical discourse to be readily accepted by the hordes of cheerleaders in the GD forums....

[galloglas]

170. Thanks, but...

I imagine the new Mattel "Electronic Jeer and Whistle Machine", being used by a certain group of Obama loyalistas here at DU, would be cranked up high enough to drown out any message of mine from being heard. Let alone entertained or accepted.

We should all hope the new H1N1 vaccine is as successful at suppressing swine flu as Obama's DU Thought Police are at sterilizing any fertile ground available for in-thread logical discussion of the OP's points.

OOPS! I think that's them coming for me now! Do you hear? Sounds to me like the clanging of shovels and pitchforks and, to the tune of Le Marseilles, these words "WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY,
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH."

:fistbump:

:toast:

[IrateCitizen]

174. I noticed how the OP did not bother to respond to a single point of your criticism...

... but instead gave a pithy retort about all of your "wasted hard work," a trumpeting of his own popularity, and an aside about "outing" your intentions.

Then again, that is typical on the GD boards of this site, where snide trumps the thought-provoking just about every time. That is why I rarely visit those forums anymore despite having been a member since 2001, and instead spend more time perusing the Environment/Energy and Economy forums.

[Aramchek]

167. aren't you pissed that thousands have read my OP, yet only a handful will read your load of tripe?

and you worked so hard!

I fear you have done us all a great service by giving yourself and your motives away.

[galloglas]

171. "giving yourself and your motives away" ??

"and you worked so hard!

I fear you have done us all a great service by giving yourself and your motives away.

Yes. It did take some time. But I really didn't, to paraphrase you, "give myself or my motives away". You see, I'd actually left them there for the taking.

Still, I would have thought the motive quite obvious. It was simply to wade through all of the awful offal being presented and then attempt the deconstruction of your Propagandistic Jingoism (or should that be Jingoistic Propagandism?). All that in order translate it into some logical rationale.

And all of that in order to make sense of the senseless, in order to question it. And all of that while trying to keep a straight face, in order that I don't spew my drink on my computer of your carefully typed babbling and gargling, produced by you and your cadres, that had provided me for my afternoon's comedy respite.


PS: "aren't you pissed that thousands have read my OP ?.

I am sorry if any of them take sick but I am sure it will pass nearly as quickly as the flu.

[Aramchek]

172. we are winning. and you know it!

;)

[galloglas]

173. That is spelling "whining"

"we are winning. and you know it!"

I corrected your spelling in the title line but, yes, yes, you are whining. And, yes, I do know it!

[Aramchek]

175. your wit is as sharp as a Kindergartener's scissors

[showpan]

176. trying hard not to burst the bubble

as I am mostly positive by nature, there are over 15,000,000 people without jobs and more being added weekly, almost no other points matter. It's a catch 22. Without decent paying jobs, people can't spend. Without spending, companies can't hire.... The only way to get decent paying manufacturing jobs back would be to either overhaul NAFTA and impose tariffs or to completely repeal NAFTA and impose tariffs because those companies have no intentions of coming back. It gets much worse because if you do imposed tariffs now, they would have to equal not only the wage difference, but also include the cost of compliance to our EPA standards and our tax structure. Otherwise, companies would have no incentive to return, it would still be cheaper to operate there. This would mean the price of everything would dramatically increase because that cost would certainly be passed to the consumer. Further damage to our economy would occur until companies either moved back, folded, and or new companies emerged. The only way to weather this would be to start massive public works projects. Rebuild America, using only american made parts and services. It would only be a short term solution until long term employment is restored. I don't see it any other way since we can't compete with India for IT employment. they don't have enough IT jobs there and are producing tech grads at the rate of all our students combined. We can't retrain millions of workers and turn them into techies...lol...Also, our school system can't compete and even if we overhauled our education system starting tomorrow, it would take many, many years. Since none of this is even on the table, (even worse, NAFTA is still being promoted) I don't see any policies taking hold for more than a couple of years since we are on the brink of an economic collapse.

[Aramchek]

177. there will be no economic collapse, jobs will return in time though not in all the same places

the end is not yet,

we are headed in the right direction.

this is not a bubble.
it's real.

[NYC_SKP]

178. Kick n/t

[Hutzpa]

179. Will become the First US President

to win the Nobel Peace Prize twice, mark my words....:headbang: