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Do We Expect Too Much From The President?

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 02:55 PM
Original message
Do We Expect Too Much From The President?
Do We Expect Too Much From The President?
By: Bill Egnor Saturday October 3, 2009 4:15 pm

snip//

If you look at the Presidency from the point of view of the Constitution, it really is not a powerful office except in terms of what it prevents. It is really and primarily a check on the powers of other areas of our government and military. The president proposes no legislation, none. He can only do one of two things with a piece of legislation; he can sign it and make it law, or he can veto it. This is intended to be the final check to prevent the Congress from making a big mistake. They can override a veto, it is true, but when a veto happens it requires a reexamination of the bill by both Houses and a two thirds majority in each in order to overrule the President.

snip//

We have been witness to eight years of the lawless behavior of the criminal Bush Administration who have filled the Executive Branch with partisans and used its offices from the Department of the Interior to the Department of Justice to help more and more Republicans get elected. We have seen the Office of the President stick it nose into every part of the Federal Government to help reward their friends and punish their opponents. We have seen them break US surveillance laws, set up extra-legal prisons and torture detainees. All of this was done through either Executive Order or with their willing accomplices in the Congress, but it came from a misunderstanding of the role of the President and a willingness to misuse those powers.

All of this leaves us in a difficult place. We have been taught, for many of us our entire adult lives, the office of the President has sweeping powers which can be exercised at will, but this is not really the case. It makes us feel as though our current President should be doing more, sweeping aside the opposition and putting things right according to the way we see things. This is part of what the hard-core Right fears so much about President Obama; they think he actually has the powers President Bush appropriated and misused. In the hands of someone they inherently distrust and to some level fear, this is a very scary idea indeed.

Those of us on the Left who are frustrated and disappointed by the President have a bit of a problem. Do we really want President Obama to act in a autocratic fashion like the lawless Bush Administration? There is no doubt major changes could be forced through in this manner, but there is a cost which I think is too high to pay. Namely it is the cost of making the kind of Unitary Executive of the criminal Bush Administration the de facto way all presidents will be able to reign. This is a dangerous precedent to confirm for our Republic.

It is only through complete overreach and not a small element of luck that the plans for the Bush Administration backfired on them. If they had limited themselves to Afghanistan instead of going to Iraq, if they had not have those eight US Attorneys who believed in the law over politics, if they had just bitten their tongue about Joe Wilson’s article discrediting the Yellow Cake purchase statement in the State of the Union, if the warrantless wiretapping had not been so overblown that whistleblowers felt they had to come forward, then they might been able to use their misappropriated powers to install a permanent Republican Majority. It is because of their overreach they failed, but who is to say a future Republican could not learn from their mistakes, if this style of Presidency becomes the norm?

On the whole the I think it is better to have a President who is primarily a check and balance than one who can on his or her own hook take the nation in directions which we don’t want to go. If we have this kind of President then we are at the mercy of the least stable of the people we elect.

So, where does that leave those of us who want change for the better? It seems it leaves us with the Congress, who are much tougher to get going in one direction than a single President. This is not to say it is not important that we on the Left keep elected Democratic Presidents, they are, at the very least, less likely to abuse the powers the President does have and more (though not a lot more) amiable to making the limits of Presidential power clear. Still it is not very smart to focus our ire and efforts so strongly on the President, we have to make it clear to the Congress that abdication of their responsibilities to the President is not acceptable, that failure to engage in their oversight role is grounds for replacement and that pretending their job is solely to do what it takes to get reelected is grounds for a strong primary challenge.

more...

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/8675
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. conflating effective and autocratic is mere rhetoric
Edited on Sun Oct-04-09 03:01 PM by Kurt_and_Hunter
Health Insurance companies should have been demonized and scape-goated before any HCR work began in congress.

But that would not require illegal wire-taps of insurance executives.

There is hard-ball politics and then there is autocratic drift toward dictatorship. Not all of the admin's problems have arisen from goodness. Some have arisen from misjudgment.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. No universal coverage; continued corporate welfare; military tribunals;
secret renditions; superficial investigation of torture; NO repeal of three key issues of Patriot Act; GITMO not shutting down as promised; and continued Summary Executions of terrorist "suspects" in countries OTHER that what we occupy.

I see NO true change here?

The only METHOD is President Obama thoughtfully listening to the CORPORATE POWER ELITES and serving their best interests. :shrug:
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Dreams of rule by decree....
...and the functional end of a messy and intractable Congress, are not fantasies indulged in exclusively by the right, as anyone who reads these boards can tell you.

The Green Lantern Theory is bipartisan, and it's not just for foreign policy any more.
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rmp yellow Donating Member (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. I expect to get whatever he promised n/t
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. So we should expect less?
And where would that leave us as a nation?
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. Only if *everything* *now* counts as "too much".
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. You make some excellent points. For sometime I have been crying
in the desert, so to speak, that at least here at DU, we
have for years ignored Congress' responsibility and often
sound as if we think we have a King. That is expecting
the President to continuously pull rabbits out of hats.

IMO, much more attention must be given to congress.

Yes, Obama has a responsibility to try to live up to campaign
promises. The reality is if the Congress passes a half
baked Health Bill, Obama has to either accept or reject it.

That Gang of Six on Health Care was not a good selection.
Senators from small western states or pretty much rural
states. Who is responsible for their selection???

If we want real change, we better start with Congress.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Too many people...
...decent folks, but impatient, with reason, after the last eight years, wanted our Bush.

That's not the way forward. The President being an old con-law instructor I suspect is more aware of that than most of us.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. Barack Obama has done more in 8 months than most presidents do in 4 years
HE's just being held to the corporate "black man" standard is all.

My experience in corporate life is that for any black man to succeed in management, he must accomplish three times as much as his white peers while having no mistakes (while his white peers can make numerous mistakes) to even be considered to be close to the performance level of his white peers.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. Yes, some people saw Bush's attitude and expect it to be
simply reversed. Others take the "most powerful man in the world" mantra too seriously. That one is just wrong. The President is not the most powerful man in the world. Only leader of the executive branch of the (perhaps no longer) most powerful nation.

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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. Armchair Presidencies ...... that's all it is.
Edited on Sun Oct-04-09 06:13 PM by Clio the Leo
Coupled with an all too often failure to educuate ourselves to the process and complexities of the situation at hand.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. what do you actually support?
I know you like the President, but I have no idiea what issues you care passionately about.

What do you want this administration to accomplish and what do you care enough about so that you would be frustrated if they can't get it done?
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Oh, I dunno......... a playoff system for college football?
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 01:25 AM by Clio the Leo
lol, you must have had me on ignore.....

(and I tried to only list here one thread per topic, this is not a complete list)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8123521

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8128671

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8147614

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8193293

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8220262

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8252535

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8268880

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8319421

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8324388

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8372814

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8409858

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8422336

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8460040

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8459675

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8497919

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8501814

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8515050

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8542578

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8593308

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8598165

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8608695

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8619409

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8618009

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8629168

and the ever popular....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8671228


As for your question, "what do you care enough about so that you would be frustrated if they can't get it done?" ..... and to that I can only answer I dont generally sit around thinking of how someone can dissapoint me .... I tend to be more optimistic than that and presume they wont, until they do otherwise. From day 1, I PRESUMED he'd improve the economy and he has, I PRESUMED he'd improve our standing in the world and he has (even more than I'd expected) and I PRESUME he will improve health care for all Americans.

If I change my mind, I'll get back to ya.

Thank you for including me in your one person survey, I feel honored to have been selected. :woohoo:
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Go get 'em, Clio!
:thumbsup:
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. An impressive compilation
but most of them are just reports on things that Obama and his administration are doing.

I kind of asked a different question. What I really wanted to know was what YOUR priorities and passions were. What interest groups have you worked for? Are you an environmentalist, a peace advocate, an advocate for the poor, civil liberties etc. I know a lot of us are most of these things, but most care passionately about a few issues above the rest.

I'm glad you're an optimist. You're also a cynic, as am I, as I think you tend to see malice sometimes where there is none intended. ;)
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. My Girl!
:thumbsup:
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
12. No We Don't.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. No. But some of us apparently expect too little.
We see an awful lot of sugar-sprinkling around here for example.
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Umbral Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. And accept too little. nt
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. We don't expect too little..we just aren't
whining and nagging bc it isn't done NOW.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. It's now or never, my friend.
Get involved, don't be complacent.
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LovinLife Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
16. Some people seem to think it was possible to fix 8yrs of bush in a few months
Its like they thought Obama knew magic or something. Like he really was the Messiah.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. They conveniently forget about the bush-cheney years
and how far they drove the country into the abyss.

That would cure their chronic case of the Whines.
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
19. Obviously we do. That SNL skit was abysmal and depressing. I don't understand why Obama only
gets 9 months to change things in this country while Bush had 8 years to fuck it up. Doesn't make any sense to me at all.
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Kdillard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. It is stunning really. Also no President wil ever make everyone happy.
Every single President will make mistakes because they are human. Obama is human like the rest of them and he will do some good things hopefully and he will have his share of mistakes. I don't expect anything less other then for him to try his best. Why anyone is expecting him to be the magic negro is beyond me.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. And, we're not the only ones who thought that. Political Fact has called out
SNL. They didn't have to lie about bush but they do about PO.

rmp yellow (106 posts) Mon Oct-05-09 12:32 PM
Original message

Politifact reminds SNL that Obama didn't promise to withdraw from Iraq or close Gitmo this early
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 12:45 PM by rmp yellow
SNL mocked Obama a couple of days ago for accomplishing "nothing" so far, including not having closed Guantanamo and withdrawn all our troops from Iraq, among other tings. But the non-partisan Politifact.com notes:

"Close Guantanamo Bay - (SNL said) Not Done." We've rated Obama's promise No. 177 Close the Guantanamo Detention Center as Stalled. Congress has been reluctant to fund the closure and press reports have indicated progress is not proceeding as the White House had hoped. Still, Obama gave himself a year to get this done, and that's not until January 2010.

• "Out of Iraq - (SNL Said) Not Done." Actually, Obama did not promise to have troops out during his first year; he promised to remove them in approximately 16 months. We rated Obama's promise No. 125, Direct military leaders to end the war in Iraq, as Promise Kept and his promise No. 126, Begin removing combat troops from Iraq, as In the Works.

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/oct/05/saturday-night-live-obama-campaign-promises/

To contact SNL pick the show from the list of NBC shows and send them an message:
http://www.nbc.com/Footer/Contact_Us/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8685460
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
24. No. nt
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
26. Only because we slip into Obama=The government too much
Some seem to see Congress and the Judiciary as simply along for the ride or something.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
27. Well, I'm cynical enough that I've learned to expect pretty much nothing from any politicians.
So I'm not expecting too much at all. ;)
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
30. We're entitled to expect a Justice Department that holds individuals and corporations accountable
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 11:00 PM by depakid
and prosecutes them for violations of federal law.

One this front- the administration has thus far been a profound failure- right on par with Bush II.
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