Where do you get your optimism?

[cleveramerican]

I come here to talk over the day's news with my DU peeps.
When the news(from 2 or 3 sources) looks bad, I react.
I comment


I get called republican, freeper, troll and all sorts of other things.

So many here seem to have unbending optimism that everything will turn out okay for us, no matter what.
if its an automatic defensive position I understand,
I can only warn against throwing people overboard for not being democrat enough.
Thats what the republicans did for 8 years and look where it got them

The invectives spewn at anybody with a less than sunny outlook have increased,
all the while calling for more civil discourse.
Is this the cheering section now?

[ProSense]

1. "for not being democrat enough"

Have you seen the menu?

[grantcart]

2. Cliffordu grows it on his back porch and sends me a package every

Wednesday. I pick it out of the mailbox Friday afternoon at 2 O clock.

[rug]

4. I get the stuff he grows directly on his back.

[cliffordu]

20. Until you busted me on the forum like this.

Ours was a pure love, based on correct thinking and a neoprebendalistic dialectic.

[rug]

29. Wow.

:applause:

neoprebenadlism

:applause:

[cliffordu]

37. LOL....

I thought you'd like that....

:rofl:

[cliffordu]

17. That he distributes after cutting it 45% with kitty litter and belly button stuff.

He used to harvest toejam for the cut but everyone in the neighborhood could smell it cooking....so he had to go with the cheaper cut.

[TicketyBoo]

3. When you live in Nebraska…

and are a Democrat, you have to be a born optimist. (Or move.)

[mnhtnbb]

80. LOL. We moved. When we left I said the state motto should be

Ignorant and proud of it! And we lived in Lincoln!

:rofl:

[TicketyBoo]

98. Johnny Carson…

was just channeling his inner Nebraskan for Floyd R. Turbo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_R._Turbo

[babylonsister]

5. After 8 years of idiot son, Obama is a breath of fresh air despite

your assertions to the contrary. Which is why I'm not your peep.

[cleveramerican]

10. Nobody measures up in your view

nobody is pure enough for you.
Thats why your not my peep
smugly superior is unbecoming

your one of the one most willing to throw others overboard for the slightest infraction of your invisible code

[babylonsister]

15. There are plenty of people here I agree with. You are not one of them. nt

[cleveramerican]

23. your just mean/ I'm sure your proud of it.

I'm sure its part of your charm.
to your little group.

[babylonsister]

25. Bwhahaha! I'm mean?

How 'bout, "I don't suffer fools often"?

Ahem.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

28. The word is "you're" n/t

[cleveramerican]

31. thanx for the tip

[demwing]

69. Sieg Fail

[JTFrog]

60. Pot, Kettle and all that.

You're chicken little routine is getting pretty fuckin old too.

:eyes:

[Cha]

97. Freaking LMAO at post

10!:rofl:

:hi::fistbump:

[countingbluecars]

41. Right here you started

the mean and nasty discourse. And then you blame someone else.

[cleveramerican]

46. not blaming anybody / its like lord of the flies in here

Its not much fun.

[polichick]

6. Looks like denial to me...

Many of us are uncomfortable with a lot of the choices the president has made ~ people he's chosen, decisions to continue Bush policies, compromises made for congresscritters who vote NO anyway ~ but some here pretend it's all a big chess game and the prez is just a bunch of moves ahead of everyone else.

imo there are relentless special interests influencing the administration, so we have to hold the president's feet to the fire in order to get the kind of change that reflects progressive values.

Why the venom toward those who don't buy the Obama-as-saint position, I don't know.

On edit: That said, I do remain optimistic that we'll get a healthcare bill that addresses at least some of our problems.

[RandomThoughts]

7. Many news stories and even threads seem to be false. But you make a statement

I can only warn against throwing people overboard for not being democrat enough.
Thats what the republicans did for 8 years and look where it got them

I don't think anyone would ever be thrown overboard for not being democrat enough. I personally don't even know what 'not democrat enough' would mean and most people would not be able to put that in context since it includes so many things. But it seems to indicate thinking of a party before thinking of the results that party achieves.

If someone either a Republican or a Democrat were to support 1% of the income makers, and support people that believe what is said on Fox news, which has been shown as untrue. If they supported a system that has been shown to not work as well as other systems just for protecting a few people. That would be the reason for where they end up.

Just like if media supports something shown not true, not for most people, and that has been shown to not work by the rest of the world, that would be why what happens to them happens.


If there was not a public option in the final bill, then many Democrats and Republicans would be throwing the progressives, and what informed people know is true, overboard. And some who only think on politics could think that would help a certain political group. But it would not help the people in America.


The reason the Republicans got in trouble throwing people overboard is because they throw the people that do the right things overboard. In many of these debates it seems many Democrats want to jump in with the Republicans, but want cover by not having to vote a certain way, and not have what they are doing shown to their constituency.

[Hutzpa]

8. Why I'm not surprised

I don't suppose its something you can understand even if it's explained to you.

[cleveramerican]

12. your probably right(or left as it were)

I have a much more detached view and i will never be able to square that circle.

[The Magistrate]

9. One Of Many Excellent Sources, Sir....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtfON5C7qgs

[Forkboy]

75. Well, that's certainly happier than what I listen to.

Somehow, a band named My Dad Is Dead doesn't inspire optimism. :)

[Lilith Velkor]

78. Indeed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v18tAeNFBoI

[sandnsea]

11. So we throw Obama overboard

or get accused of being unrealistically optimistic cheerleaders.

Or too democrat.

Or something.

[polichick]

13. There's a lot of ground between "throwing Obama overboard"...

...and the Obama-as-infallible-chess-master position.

[cleveramerican]

19. call it like you see it

if you are optimistic tell me why.
maybe I can be optimistic too.

[Jennicut]

14. I can't figure your positions out at all.

Obama is too to the right on health care but on the issue with Gates he was acting horribly wrong per you. Its so...discombobulating. There are tons of posters here who are very critical of Obama that don't get any flak because it seems legitimate and it is about policies, not the politician.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jennicut]

18. LOL. Can this be any more obvious???

[Parker CA]

21. LOL "Democrat healthcare" Transparent much?

[cleveramerican]

26. Back then I hoped some republicans could be convinced/cajoled

very good memory by the way.

[scheming daemons]

83. You miss the point... Using the term "Democrat" instead of "Democratic" is a freeper giveaway

...I probably shouldn't have clued you in on it.

[cleveramerican]

33. its coming true

[ProSense]

35. What?

Exposing you?

[babylonsister]

36. +1. Yep. nt

[cleveramerican]

38. exposing me of what

not being part of the non-stop cheering section?
I am guilty

I stand by that post and if more work had been done earlier the situation would be different.

If we jam it through with 60, it'll never become fully realized.
we should do it anyway if its our only avenue
I simply would've liked it to go differently

[ProSense]

40. Your inability to spell and use of the word "Democrat" as an adjective. n/t

[cleveramerican]

43. done for effect/ worked too good I guess

you missed it.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GOTV]

72. If it worked so well, why are you complaining about its effect ...

... here in this OP.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cleveramerican]

42. what do you think the republicans will call it if we jam it through with 60

You know what
I think they will call it.
It will be damaging.


keep patting yourselves on the back for how superior you are/voters love that

[alcibiades_mystery]

47. They'll eat shit and like it

Bush jammed plenty of shit through with Cheney breaking a tie. Too fucking bad. We won the election, so YOU losers should just get over it and take your medicine. Literally.

Voters apparently liked our side far more than your pathetic loser side last election. If they get health care that's reasonable, affordable, convenient, and cost-effective, they'll like our side even more, and I don't really care how we get there, politically, because the important part is that people get health care.

And you don't appear to know jack shit about politics.

[babylonsister]

53. I love you. nt

[cleveramerican]

55. boo hoo You won't let me be one of the cool kids

health care is sinking like a stone
if you three are represent OUR side we deserve it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

64. Oh please

Not this persecution complex again.

:rofl:

It's so pathetic.

[cleveramerican]

57. I am a democrat

only you think my side was a bunch of losers
but I can see where you'd get that impression from this post

[alcibiades_mystery]

65. No you're not

[cleveramerican]

79. says you

I will somehow mange to go on.

[alcibiades_mystery]

81. ROFL

Whatever you say, pal.

[cleveramerican]

30. horrible only because he change the story from healthcare to "stupidly"

and I stood with my brother officer,gave him the benefit of the doubt.
loyalty means something to me, even on the web


your very insightful because to me its all politics, a numbers game,a strategy well executed leading to victory.

[The Magistrate]

44. Not Only Nonesense, Sir, But Damned Pernicious Nonesense

A police officer who places loyalty to other police before loyalty to the citizenry, justice, and the law, is not fit to wear a badge, and certainly not fit to be trusted with weapons and the power of arrest.

[Jennicut]

50. Thank you Magistrate, you said it far better then I could have.

[cleveramerican]

56. you are the reason we get tagged as "soft on crime"

knee jerk vicious opposition to law and order.

[Truth2Tell]

58. I've never seen anyone accuse The Magistrate

of "vicious opposition to law and order." You've gone off the deep end dude.

Me, on the other hand, well... my knee's likely to jerk right into your nuts.

[cleveramerican]

61. bring it on

[JTFrog]

63. You are the reason bad cops never get weeded out.

Stand by your brothers no matter what.

[The Magistrate]

67. This, Sir, Does Not Deserve To be Taken Seriously, But Let Us try To Do So, If Only For Exercise

You stated that you always give the benefit of doubt to "a fellow officer" when charges of police misconduct arise. My reply was that a police officer who puts loyalty to other police officers above loyalty to the citizenry, justice, and the law, is not fit to be a police officer. This you call "vicious opposition to law and order', and declare is why "we get tagged as 'soft on crime'". All of this in specific relation to the incident in which Prof. Gates was arrested in his own home by a police officer responding to a call indicating a possible break-in there, and arrested after it had been clearly established there was no breaking-in in progress.

Since the state's attorney immediately dropped the charges the police officer filed, two things are abundantly clear about the incident. First, no crime was committed by Prof. Gates; second, the police officer behaved improperly by arresting Prof. Gates. Thus, criticizing the officer is hardly being 'soft on crime, since no crime was committed by Prof. Gates. However, defending the officer is being soft on crime, since the police officer committed at least one crime in the course of the incident, namely swearing falsely in filing the charge. The officer certainly filed a false report, and in the course of a civil suit for damages from false arrest, this will be abundantly demonstrated in a court record, whether or not any criminal charge is ever filed against him.

Police officers do, in fact, abuse their authority and commit crimes with some frequency. In my city, reasonably recent headlines alone include several incidents of systematic theft of cash and drugs by officers on narcotics duty, unprovoked beatings of citizens, drunken driving resulting in death of another motorist, and murder of a spouse, after a long pattern of previous abuse. All of these things involved some degree of covering up by police officers who put loyalty to other police before loyalty to the citizenry, justice, and the law. The claim that police should be loyal above all to other police is a pernicious one, that does a great deal of harm to law enforcement, for it not only makes easier the commission of crimes by police, but seriously impacts the perception of the police by the communities they operate in, giving people good reason to view the police with some hostility, and convincing many the police are not, in fact, a source of reliable justice.

In short, Sir, your charge against me is nonesense, but the position you espouse is indeed a "knee jerk vicious opposition to law and order", and illustrates the greatest difficulty society faces in securing good policing for itself.

[cleveramerican]

86. the only answer

there was no false report.there were two stories, there always is
two warnings ignored, your going to jail, even if it gets thrown out
The officer on the scene is in charge.
Its his call, and I know and trust him.
do you have any idea how many people in handcuffs cry racism? Its an every day thing, so I may be a tad jaded.
I have very little patience for the "all cops are racist assholes" line of thinking that was pervasive on du that day.
even the president knows that no matter how bad cops are, criminals are worse.
I have never seen a citizen in trouble and not helped that person
how many others can say the same?
and by the way a day later the president moved back a little closer to my position. saying both parties overreacted.
there will be no charges, no law suit and no doubt it'll happen again, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt again
just like he would me.

thats my best explanation

[The Magistrate]

88. Not Good Enough, Sir

Once Prof. Gates' identity was established, the officer should have said something along the lines of 'Sorry to trouble you, Sir,' then gotten into the squad car and departed. Period. No matter what was said to him, no matter how it made him feel. The officer set out to manufacture a crime. He lied in statements summoning back-up, and lied in the report he filed to support the trumped up charge.

The position you are urging sums up fairly as 'the police officer is always right.' Since police officers are human beings, and human beings under stress, that cannot possibly be the case: 'to err is human', after all, and people under stress make more than the average rate of mistakes. Most of my interactions with police, at least as an adult, have been quite reasonable, even friendly, but this does not blind me to obvious facts of police actions in a number of instances. It is an amply demonstrated fact that police officers will on occasion abuse and mis-use their authority, and the 'brother officer' code you espouse makes it almost impossible to deal adequately with these violations. This in turn hampers effective policing in many situations. So long as you refuse to recognize this, you contribute to a serious social problem.

[cleveramerican]

89. gates followed him outside, yelling at him calling him a racist

if he didn't do that he would have stayed home, not gone to jail.
there were no lies,every person on the scene citizens and officers back up Sgt. Crowley's version.
gates has no one to corroborate his version
if what you say were true the president wouldn't have praised him so

if you follow the cop, yelling at him, ignoring his repeated urging for you to calm down, your going to jail, period

the cop is not always right, but he always deserves the benefit of the doubt.
from me anyway.
walk a mile in my shoes then tell me how it is
cause I don't think you have any idea.

[The Magistrate]

91. Even If True, Sir, So What?

The problem was the officer, not the gentleman in his own home. Had the officer simply removed himself, there would be no disturbance, no situation. The problem the officer had was that he did not feel the citizen showed sufficient respect for him. Hard as it may be for you to accept, no law actually empowers a police officer to arrest a citizen because the officer does not like his attitude. Such arrests occur, of course, but they are pure abuse of power: the officer does it because he can, and knows he will not be disciplined for the action. Since such actions are normally taken against persons with little social standing, the fact that they are not legal actions is generally overlooked by all concerned, and those subject to such unlawful arrest have no recourse, generally being happy enough to be let go once at the station. The officer's real mistake was to arrest to a person of high social standing in this high-handed manner, and thus become subject to real scrutiny. In this instance, there is no doubt to give any benefit of. The officer misbehaved; he should be broken from the force pour encourager les autres.

[cleveramerican]

92. you are wrong on the law and on the circumstances

I am not attempting to convince you of anything, I am sure your opinion is fully formed, as is mine
Sgt Crowley is widely respected and will continue to serve the city of Cambridge for many more years.
He did not misbehave, He acted properly I would have done the same, and I have.

Monday morning quarterbacks are a dime a dozen.

its too easy after the fact.
the officer makes these judgments in a split second.
He uses his training and experience.

[The Magistrate]

93. You, Sir, Are Every Bit As Much A 'Monday Morning Quarterback' As Anyone Else Commenting On This

You were no more there than me, and would be well advised to save the effort of typing out 'only a police officer could know what goes on' or anything similar. About the only creditable thing you have done so far is to proclaim in advance that you are biased in favor of any police officer in any situation, but this obviously subjects your statements to a heavy discount in regards to their being an accurate appreciation of the circumstances. My view of the police is quite neutral, and my comments on any specific action by a police officer are determined by an individual assessment of that particular situation, so far ass it can be known. In this instance, the officer behaved very poorly, and should be severely disciplined for it.

[cleveramerican]

94. read my "the provision I love" thread

its very positive

[Proud Liberal Dem]

22. I've never really been able to be much of a pessimist

There are certainly a lot of things that I/we could all be depressed about but I find dwelling on the negatives to be too draining and demoralizing. Reading thread after thread here predicting doom and gloom and failure isn't much fun either. I don't think I'm naive about how things are politically right now nor do I think that Obama is perfect but I'll take a slightly imperfect situation over a truly gawd awful situation anyday

[Iwillnevergiveup]

24. This helps

John F. Kennedy
Sept. 14, 1960

Acceptance of the New York Liberal Party Nomination

"Some pundits are saying it's 1928 all over again. I say it's 1932 all over again. I say this is the great opportunity that we will have in our time to move our people and this country and the people of the free world beyond the new frontiers of the 1960s."

[DU GrovelBot]

32. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

This week is our third quarter 2009 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

[Odin2005]

34. My hatred of Doom-and-Gloomism.

[Becky72]

45. Calm down. Obama is playing Chess

You should know this by now.

[Binka]

54. LOL Becky

You are a HOOT! Just so fucking funny. Really. You are just a laugh a minute. Really!

[Mrs. Overall]

95. Can't believe she's still here.

[CakeGrrl]

51. If you'd lose your fear of "DEMOCRAT HEALTHCARE"

you might feel a little better.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8541972#8542008

:rofl:

[saltpoint]

52. Ya wanna fight the good fight.

And there's plenty of 'em out there.

[FrenchieCat]

59. I'm optimistic, cause what I know is that there are fewer assholes out there

then there were before.

As long as I know the asshole crowd is thinning, I'm almost good.

[JTFrog]

62. It's like chicken little meets the boy who cried wolf.

Funny how folks take offense to getting called out for acting like a republican, freeper or troll.

Just saying.... :shrug:

[rucky]

66. Denial can come off as optimism sometimes. n/t

[treestar]

68. It's not overoptimism, it is being reasonable

Big changes take time and can only be gradual; we're lucky we don't have to do it with guns and revolutions, and that it can happen without that.

Progress will be made. It always happens.

I'm just grateful that the temporary reverses caused by Reaganism are starting to be recognized as regression rather than progress. That is a good thing in the times we live in.

[polichick]

70. Oh the irony of a thread about optimism being unrecommended. LOL

[azmouse]

73. Maybe because the OP is anything BUT optimistic?

And seems to dislike DUers who are?

[polichick]

74. I don't know the poster, but it looks like "optimistic" DUers dislike him/her. nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

76. Uh, good point there, Alanis

:rofl:

[Teaser]

71. from smashing trolls

.

[Forkboy]

77. From you.

[ecstatic]

82. I'm not an optimist--I'm a realist

[cherokeeprogressive]

84. From my blood type

It's B+

Honest!

[scheming daemons]

85. If you can't see the reason to be optimistic after Bush being replaced by Obama....

...there's no hope for you.


Obama is a good man.

Not a perfect man.

But a good man.


And that represents and INCREDIBLE world of difference from the past 8 years... actually, the past 28 years.

[Life Long Dem]

87. Most times it's a topic that is argued about over and over again.

And once this starts to get somewhere we start seeing posters asking why everyone was so hateful. Which of course is BS, but gets the ball rolling and ends up being nothing but a distraction until it fades away.

[Fearless]

90. Feeling sad isn't fun. That's all.

[saltpoint]

96. I don't think the Teletubbies' charm and virtue can be overstated.

They are gems, they are diamonds, they are resolutely happy and cooperative souls.

[TicketyBoo]

99. Maybe I'm old-fashioned…

But I like the Muppets and Sesame Street.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIq8jLj5TzU

That's a huge dose of optimism, right there.

[saltpoint]

100. True. We must not lose ourselves in the dreary backalleys of

despair when the Muppets and the Teletubbies await to delight our senses.

[bluestateguy]

101. Because I believe in this country

Pessimism never created a job, got our troops out of a foxhole or achieved social justice for anyone.

[Splinter Cell]

102. Maybe

People are tired of some folks that NEVER stop bitching. No matter what. Nothing is ever good enough, fast enough, just plain-ass enough for some.

The constant armchair quarterbacking gets old in a hurry.