Single payer is deader than Michael Jackson

[cleveramerican]

Single payer has disappeared from the public discussion
No elected official is even calling for it anymore.
It appears to have died quietly.
While no one was watching.


Anybody holding out hope for single payer will be disappointed.

[BlooInBloo]

1. I still don't understand why anyone was hoping for it right now...

Except for the "Clap Louder!" Tinkerbell mentality, I suppose.



EDIT: In case anybody isn't familiar with the classic metaphor:

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:ekA2w1hB9vMJ:crookedtimber.org/2003/09/08/think-of-a-wonderful-thought/+clap+louder&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

"You remember how in the second act Tinkerbell drinks some poison that Peter is about to drink in order to save him? And then Peter turns to the audience and he says, “Tinkerbell is going to die because not enough people believe in fairies. But if all of you clap your hands real hard to show that you do believe in fairies, maybe she won’t die.”

So, we all started to clap. I clapped so long and so hard that my palms hurt and they even started to bleed I clapped so hard. Then suddenly the actress playing Peter Pan turned to the audience and she said, “That wasn’t enough. You did not clap hard enough. Tinkerbell is dead.” And then we all started to cry. The actress stomped off stage and refused to continue with the production. They finally had to lower the curtain. The ushers had to come help us out of the aisles and into the street. "

[Drunken Irishman]

2. That's one long metaphor.

[BlooInBloo]

4. Heh. Its breadth of application repays the inital time investment, imo.

[cleveramerican]

3. its a beautiful pipedream

people here wish for the sky
and settle for a plane ride.
same as it ever was.

I hope we all keep wishing for the sky anyway.

[BlooInBloo]

5. Yep - thus my closing "right now".

[Drunken Irishman]

7. ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw54-rCIrPs

[depakid]

6. "Anybody holding out hope for single payer will be disappointed."

Anyone who doesn't recognize that over time, some form of single payer is the only way America can remain competitive and sustain a somewhat higher standard of living than upper tier 3rd world nations doesn't know- or hasn't thought too much about how economics (micro or macro) work in the real world.

[cleveramerican]

9. lets say your right....

why have we been so horrendously bad at getting that word out?

[quakerboy]

43. Because

Everyone with money (ie the corps) and everyone with power (ie the pol's) are allied against this coming out, and between them they control most of the venues of information.

[iconocrastic]

54. Because it was being sold in disguise, rather than on its merits

If you want single payer then you sell single payer, not on covering uninsured or on cost containment or insurance reform.

If you buy in on the premise that you can only sell it by bait and switch, how do you expect to be able to articulate a clear position?

[Skittles]

8. not surprised

[Kahuna]

10. All the howling about single payer, which was NEVER on the table..

only helped to confuse the public option, message.

[cornermouse]

11. If public option passes with

mandatory insurance payments from everyone in the nation, it is a goldmine for the insurance companies and pretty much nothing for the rest of us. You can bet the insurance companies have already drawn up the bills/proposals to exclude people who cost them money from coverage and are ready to put them on selected congressmen and women's desks. Given the insurance company's track records so far I don't see any reason to doubt that they'll get what they want. I believe that the public option was intended to kill single payer. Since I have already have insurance this doesn't affect me personally, but creating the equivalent of "the death penalty for single payer" does affect my kids because due to prior condition I have been unable to get them off Medicaid (something that has been difficult to find a doctor who is willing to take new medicaid patients) and covered under a national plan which would make it possible to find a doctor since payment for everyone would become equalized.

Single payer was the only thing that would have actually worked for all of us. Instead Obama wasted his political capitol on public option and bipartisanship; both of which appear to be bad leadership decisions to me. From my point of view, it's better if public option doesn't pass at this point.

[ima_sinnic]

14. +1: "Obama wasted his political capital on public option & bipartisanship"

-- yes, I see some less than stellar "leadership" on this issue. He has allowed it to deteriorate instead of being uncompromising and firm about his agenda.

[Kahuna]

15. "Free" healthcare for all was never on the table either. I understand

that a universal, Medicare for all is the ideal. But, it's plain to see that the political will to get that just isn't there. It's not because Obama doesn't have the will. It's because he can't get enough senators to support him. This is still a democracy, not a dictatorship. Howling about what isn't feasible only gets us NOTHING in the long run. How many times do we have to go down this road before we realize that? :shrug:

[cornermouse]

18. As many times as it takes before you

realize that the people DO want single payer and you're wrong.

[Kahuna]

19. YOU get it right! I KNOW that the people want it. The POLITICIANS

who happen to control the issue, do not. That is what I said because it's true. Got it know???? :eyes:

[cornermouse]

20. "It's because he can't get enough senators to support him."

I'm tired of the excuses.

[Kahuna]

22. "Excuses?" It's not a reality??? So, how the hell is President Obama

supposed to control 60 individuals? How??? Mind Control? Hypnosis? Torture? Blackmail? Bribery? You have all the answers. Let us all know. :popcorn:

[cornermouse]

23. As strange as it may sound to you...

Cries of "we need to get a majority in Congress", followed by "We need to win the Presidential race and get a bigger majority in Congress and then everything will be all right. Till then, liberals need to shut up". Excuse piled up on excuse piled up on excuse piled up on excuse. And by the way, I changed my mind. No need to be polite. That would be "now" not "know".

You own this turkey. :popcorn: back at ya.

[Kahuna]

25. Let us all, "now?" WTF? No, once I again I stand by my own words.

You live in la la land. I live in the real word where I KNOW (not, NOW :eyes: )that herding cats is impossible. If you want a party that votes in lockstep, become a republican.

[cornermouse]

28. Now, not know.

"Got it know???? :eyes:"

I believe you forgot to tell me to move to Russia. Buh-bye.

[Kahuna]

29. Mine is a typo. If a typo makes you feel superior, have at it.

:eyes:

[ipaint]

53. Or move to-

Brazil
Canada
Colombia
Mexico
Peru
Trinidad and Tobago
People's Republic of China
Hong Kong SAR
India
Israel
Singapore
Taiwan (Republic of China)
Thailand
Finland
Germany
Netherlands
United Kingdom
England
Northern Ireland
Scotland
Wales
Australia
New Zealand

where there is not a "progressive" party that works 24/7 as corporate apologists thinking up every reason under the sun we can't have some form of universal care. Including the meme that it is the "perfect" option.
It is not perfect anywhere, what it is is fair, which is why you will never see our corporate insurance vultures picking at the half dead carcases of anyone in the world but americans.

[chimpymustgo]

31. Remember LBJ? Thank God it wasn't this crowd trying to pass civil rights legislation!

[IndianaGreen]

32. Slaves would be four fifths of a human being if the DLC existed back then

Abolitionists would be called unrealistic, radicals, communists.

[CreekDog]

51. because even the stupid senators think they are smarter than Obama

Senators live in some sort of dreamworld where they have several staff members check their email for them and walk around with them like groupies of some sort.

You know how many Senators don't know how to check their email? You know how many Senators have never used the internet?

There is not a class of successful people anywhere else that has as many that have not done the above.

They are in a rarified world.

But if you think they are going to listen to Obama, I got news for you. Oh, I think he can get enough of them to listen, but the blue dogs are more afraid of making Republicans mad and frequently see attacking someone like Obama as a way of scoring points at home and with the DC intelligensia.

Obama is smart but he can't change all that singlehandedly in the first year --no way.

Those buffons that haven't even touched the internet --exactly what sense could they possibly acquire while avoiding that?

[dionysus]

40. you explained it perfectly, but this same thread will be posted again tomorrow. why do you think

that is?

[ingac70]

12. It was never on the table. n/t

[cleveramerican]

13. it was the north star

what we set our compass to

[quantass]

16. Public Option is NOW dead too.

Watching todays programs :(

[cornermouse]

17. I noticed too

We're officially retreating to insurance co-ops now. Not surprising.

[NorthCarolina]

21. Obama has been calling the effort "Health Insurance Reform" these

past few days. I am assuming that the only real beneficiary of reform will be the Insurance Industry. So much for "taking on the special interests".

[Honeycombe8]

24. It never was on the table. I've been pointing that out for months.

I never understood why some kept talking about it, because it just never was something that was being considered by Congress, the W.H., or most citizens. I thought discussing it was taking away from the real debate that needed to be going on, which was inclusion of a public option.

[Kahuna]

27. That was my point. Ed Schultz' nightly squawking about single payer..

did us not one bit of good. It just confused the message for what was a more realistic goal. I know, as the president does, that these things have to be done incrementally. Now way is it possible to change the entire structure of health care (due to political considerations) overnight. So, why talk about it?

[Honeycombe8]

30. Ohhhh. Gotcha. I totally agree. nt

[chimpymustgo]

34. Thank God for people like Ed Shultz and Howard Dean who are NOT GIVING UP!

Just because Obama is going to bow to the corporate masters doesn't mean we should, either.

[IndianaGreen]

26. You are preaching defeatism. The same defeatism that said there was no choice but to vote for IWR

People should take a principled stand and fight for what they believe in. The hell with the pundits and MSM, and double hell to the DLC nay-sayers!

[cleveramerican]

50. Not preaching, just calling it like I see it.

[ronnykmarshall]

33. Michael Jackson's DEAD????

When did that happen?

[DevonRex]

35. Jaysus. It was never ON the table to begin with. Find something else to whine about.

[tranche]

36. Least clever post I've seen in a long time. Idiotic even.

[Ikonoklast]

37. Notsocleveramerican spreading bullshit again.

Still flying under the radar.

Single payer wasn't on the table, doofus.

Go back to where you came FRom.

[cleveramerican]

52. look around...

i think you'll find an awful lot of folks are holding out hope for "medicare for everyone" type reform.


If it was never on the table ,as you incorrectly say, what in the OP is bullshit?

[dionysus]

38. it was never campaigned on or promised, but you know that.

:eyes:

[IndianaGreen]

39. The slogan was 'Change You Can Believe In' not 'Change We Can Bullshit You With'

Buyer Beware may come back to bite you in the ass!

[dionysus]

41. the hard truth is is was never campaigned on or promised.

i'd prefer single payer, but if there aren't enough dems to push it through, how the hell do you think it could happen? You want Obama to somehow rule by fiat, sign a piece of paper and make it so? come on IG, you know it doesn't work that way!

[Ikonoklast]

44. Matters not to him.

He wanted a Socialist Dictator, not a democratically elected president.

[Tarheel_Dem]

42. Oh great, one of DU's biggest shit stirrers, at it again! I'd like to know if you..

can provide a link where single payer was ever promised by this administration? If it's okay with you, I'd prefer to hear the president say the public option's dead, and not depend on teevee talking heads & DU alarmists.
:eyes:

[cleveramerican]

47. Who is its champion?

name the elected official who is calling for it?


You can't....just like I thought.... That tells me its dead.
find your own link.

[cleveramerican]

48. Who is its champion?

name the elected official who is calling for it?


You can't....just like I thought.... That tells me its dead.
find your own link.

[PurityOfEssence]

45. AND ITS CAUSE OF DEATH IS JUST AS SUSPICIOUS.

I don't think we could have gotten there right now, either, but I think we could have gotten waaaay farther down the pike. Some version of it is inevitable, unless we just become a feudal backwater of a glorified third-world nation. The boldness by which we are to get there is the question, and that's the problem we're facing.

[Freddie Stubbs]

46. It was never being considered as an option.

[akbacchus_BC]

49. Well, the President did not promise single payer but he is trying for the

public option!