Put up or shut up time, teabagger mobsters. Burn your Medicare cards.

[LuckyTheDog]

I challenge all of them for whom this applies:

Burn your Medicare cards. Burn them now.

While you are at it, start mailing those Social Security payments back to the feds.

If you won't do those things, then STFU!

[Hangingon]

1. We paid for those benefits. So drop this starwman.

[Vinca]

2. But it's "government" health care and these people do not want

the government in their lives. Collect the Medicare cards and the money can be spent on other recipients.

[Hangingon]

6. Many I see do not want their health care plan damaged.

For most of is old enough for medicare, our health care progam includes ,edicare as anintegral component. This is a strawman issue.

[catbyte]

5. I want

ALL those congresspeople who are against a government option to GIVE UP THEIR health care! If it's so horrible for the rest of us, then they should lead by example. Bleeping hypocrites all.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Diane

Anishnabe and Proud

"Tales of the hunt will glorify the hunter until lions have their own historians." African proverb

[Hangingon]

7. The conress participates in the OPM government insurance plan

This is an "employee" benefit plan offered all Federal employees. They pay a part of the plan. It has nothing to do with the government option. I guess, by your extension, your thinking would require all UAW workers at GM and Chrysler to give up their medical plans. Curious. Do the Anishnabe participate in Indian Health Service? If they do, you should give it up or risk looking hypocritical.

[catbyte]

10. What are you talking about?

All I was saying is that as long as these congresspeople participate in health care that has anything to do with the government, then they should shut the hell up and stop denying the benefit to all Americans. What's hypocritical about that? And BTW, Indian Health Services SUCKS unless you live on the rez and even then it's piss poor. What was your point?

Diane

Anishnabe and Proud

[Hangingon]

11. The Congressional health plan is an employee plan.

That means they get health insurance because the United States Government - as a responsible employer - makes a health play available. The government pays part and the employee pays part. Their job is to pass legislation that is responsible - affordable. So far, nothing I have read shows the reforms will be affordable - they will produce record deficits that our children and grandchildren will have to contend with. As long as Representatives and senators do their job, accepting their employee benefit is in no way hypocritical.

As to the quality of Indian Health Service, thank you for adding further confirmation that government provided health care is poor.

[yodermon]

14. The FEHB is more than just "a health plan" that the US Govt makes available to employees.

It has negotiating powers, by statute that private employers do not have.
Plus it doesn't have a Profit Motive because it is a public entity.
It's a "public option" that federal employees have but the rest of us don't.

(Hey couldn't this grounds for an equal protection clause violation lawsuit? hmmm.)

[Hangingon]

22. FEHB does negotiate with insurers.

It has power because of the size of the federal employee pool. I don't know of any private firm that has an employee pool the size of the federal workforce. Still. the OPM does not dictate to the insurers. Federal employees and annuitants have seem premiums rise and coverage eroded.

[JoePhilly]

18. Their plan is WAY BETTER than anything YOU can get on the Private Insurance market for the same $$.

They would like US to have the SAME options ... well, the GOP does not.

They use YOUR TAX DOLLARS to give themselves a BETTER DEAL then YOU can get.

Still don't see it, do you????

[Hangingon]

20. Their plan is "way better" than "you" can ....

get on the private insurance market for the same SS. Yes, it is.
It is based on the number of employers pool - in this case the Federal workforce. That is why it is better than what an individual can get. So is the plan available to employees of most large corporations. It is the size of the risk pool.

"They would like US to have the SAME options ... well, the GOP does not."
I am not sure who "they" are. I think the issue for many skeptical of the "health care reform" issue which now seems to be the "health insurance reform" is costs. What will it do to the budget deficit which we pass on to our grandchildren? What cuts to promised services will be made to reduce this deficit? These are the questions that people want answered. The CBO report says it will blow the budget.

"They use YOUR TAX DOLLARS to give themselves a BETTER DEAL then YOU can get." They get the the same deal any Federal employee or annuitant gets. The Federal Employees Health Plan is a responsible employee benefit. It is a cost of government.

"Still don't see it, do you????" I hope this helps you see the issue rationally and without emotion.

[JoePhilly]

23. So you still miss the point.

Government workers get a broader selection and a better price that you or I get. Because there are many of them.

The public option would make YOU and I part of that larger group. Or at least give us the option to join. You already pay for that group.

A small business person can not, today, get the same leverage.

Nor can a person who is self employed.

The public option creates a larger pool for those who are not allowed to "swim" anywhere else.

Finally, while budget concerns are worth discussing ... the CBO is not working from a final bill, no one is.

This process has been more transparent that probably any in years. I worry about the costs too ... but I figure is we can spend a Trillion or two in Iraq ... we can spend some money on the health of Americans.

[LuckyTheDog]

8. And if the public option passes...

... most of those who benefit will pay for THAT -- through taxes and insurance premiums paid to to the plan.

There will be subsidies for the very poor. But most will pay for it one way or another.

Medicare is "gub'mint health care." Those who oppose it should burn their Medicare cards and buy private insurance.

[Hangingon]

9. Again and slowly - not all oppose medicare

They oppose cuts in medicare that will imppact them.

[LuckyTheDog]

15. They. Oppose. Government. Health. Care.

The fact that they voice their opposition to government health care for others, while happily accepting Medicare is an obvious contradiction.

Don't you agree?

[Hangingon]

16. No I don't agree

I have the same health plan as an anuitant. It is an employee benefit. The FEHB is a collection of commercial health plans such as Aetna and Blue Cross/Blue Shields and union plan such as the Postal Unions have negotiated. I have a commercial health plan and "happily" accept medicare because I paid into medicare and the combined commercial pla/medicare is our system. There is no contradiction.

[LuckyTheDog]

28. You are wrong

A government public option will be paid for as well -- through premiums and taxes. And when it passes, THAT will be our system.

Those who want to rant and scream about keeping the government out of health care should be campaigning for an end to Medicare, Medicaid and the VA health system. If they won't do that, then they should stop making "the meddling of government bureaucrats," then they should be consistent.

I am not talking here about employee benefits for government employees. Most of the folks you are defending -- those Glenn Beck fans who have been hollering at the town hall meetings -- are happy to take Medicare. Yet, they also want the government out of health care. That is a contradiction.

[Critters2]

24. They want the government out of health care. I say we give 'em what they want.

See how the "free market" cares for you, oldsters!

[Hangingon]

27. Go ahead. You are going to love November 2010.

[LuckyTheDog]

31. So, do you have any ideas?

Or would you -- like the teabaggers you defend -- be happy enough to see the status quo maintained?

[Critters2]

33. These assholes aren't voting Dem anyway.

They're pissed precisely because they lost last time.

[AuntPatsy]

13. This is no straw-man, if anyone is using that as a straw-man they are....

attempting to say it's their money anyway, and if that is the case why do they protest so much when others besides themselves receive these benefits...

[Hangingon]

19. Many are using this as a straw man

The logic seems to be if you don't want the undefined reforms being pushed so hard and so fast you must be against all government health care. Therefore, turn in your medicare. Well, we were pushed into medicare and it has now become part of the medical coverage for those over 65. I am not opposed to medicare. It is a fact of life. I paid into it on the promise that it is the system that will provide a significant portion of my medical care in my later years. Now some of the "plans" being floated are placing cuts on medicare funding and restrictions on what care I can receive. That is what I oppose.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

26. They are social programs run by the government that re-distribute. The point is valid.

[OHdem10]

3. You are being logical. However, these people are not against

Medicare.

Democrats here is the fight.

These people are there to Stop Reform. Stop Reform . Stop Reform.
Bring down Obama's Approval Ratings, Bring down Obama's Ratings.

Pick out some controversial emotional subject and chew on it, chew on it
This is why the glommed onto death panels(emotional and fear raising)
They know the truth. It is a great way to Stop Reform.
The Racial Undercurrents are to bring Obama's ratings down.




Add: These people are not all just a bunch of crazies. They
are ready willing and able to do anything that might improve
GOP chances in the next election.

[Jennicut]

4. Very true. Its on any issue Obama would attempt to deal with really

[cascadiance]

12. It's kind of the equivalent grass roots challenge that Weiner made in the House the other day...

challenging Republicans to vote down Medicare if they thought state funded health care was so bad...

I think there is a way to do this to force them to stop being stupid, or pay the big price.

Kind of like that joke of a human being that was unemployed and without insurance protesting against his interests in those town halls asking for donations to cover his medical expenses.

[mitchum]

17. No, you paid for them for your parents...

just as your children (and I) are paying for yours.
And I have no problem with that.

[LuckyTheDog]

29. But, try to keep up

The folks who have been sreaming like maniacs at the town halls are doing so because they say they want the government out of health care. Don't they realize that Medicare is a government program?

[mitchum]

32. Sorry, but I inadvertedly replied to your original post...

when I meant to reply to respondent #1's assertion that "they had already paid for their own Medicare" I stand by my statement.
And I'm in complete agreement with you about the geriatric hypocrites screaming at the town halls. They need to put up or shut up.

[TxRider]

21. Why?

Why shouldn't people on medicare get concerned when Obama says he will cut several hundred billion from the program?

[LuckyTheDog]

30. That's not what they are screaming about

This is not about the Medicare budget and you know it. Those people want to scream about keeping the "gub'mint" out of health care. And yet... they want to keep their Medicare. So... which is it?

Not one GOPer voted to end Medicare when they had the chance. So, can we stop the nonsense?

[Phx_Dem]

25. Put up or SHUT THE FUCK UP. Idiots.