Get a Brain, Morans

[NanceGreggs]

This little diatribe may offend some. And if it does, I really don’t give a flyin’ fuck.

If you’re already offended by the foregoing, you may not want to read any further. And that’s fine with me.

The point is simple: there is the truth, and there are lies. There is information, and there is deliberate misinformation. There are facts, and there are distortions of reality.

And if you don’t know the difference between them, that’s a shame. But that doesn’t mean that the sane, intelligent, fact-seekers among us are responsible for your idiocy – its existence, its perpetration, its promotion, or its consequences.

If you are reading this on a computer, you have access to the truth. Use it. If you’re a computer dummy who doesn’t know how to search out real information, ask someone to assist you. It’s that simple – so stop being simple-minded and get with the program.

If you honestly believe that someone like Rush Limbaugh is a straight-shooter who wouldn’t lie to you, do some research into his background. Then ask yourself if a drug-addled bigot who makes his living riling up hate and discord might not have a financial agenda in roping-in gullible people like you and keeping them as part of his “audience share” – the numbers upon which his income is based.

The same goes for Glenn Beck, Bill O’Reilly, and the rest of their ilk. These people aren’t stupid – they make their living by spewing complete and utter bullshit, knowing that people like you ARE too stupid to question it, no matter how incredibly ridiculous it is.

If you truly believe that Obama’s healthcare reform program includes talking your grandmother into being euthanized – or any of the other crap you’ve been hearing – you are an idiot, plain and simple. The facts about what is being proposed are out there, readily available. If you can’t be bothered to avail yourself of those facts, then shut the fuck up and allow those who can be bothered to inform themselves do the talking. We already have more than enough morons speaking out from a position of complete ignorance – you needn’t add to their numbers.

The facts about universal healthcare coverage in the countries that have it, along with information about how it operates and its benefits, are also available to anyone who has the mental capacity to read/listen and comprehend. If you don’t have that capacity, you have no place in the discussion.

If you sincerely accept that someone like Orly Taitz, who can’t put a sentence together without making a public fool of herself, knows what she’s talking about, you are as much of a fool as she is – maybe more so.

If you believe that Sarah Palin’s ramblings – along with her hypocrisy, her questionable ethics, her complete inability to speak coherently or advisedly on every subject from how government operates to foreign affairs – qualify her as a leader of this nation or any other, you are just plain delusional.

The greatest threat to this country right now is the stupidity of people like you. In today’s technological world, there is no excuse for not being well-informed by reliable sources – not the gibberish you swallow from alleged “news organizations” that fill your head with nonsense because you are too lazy, or just too dumb, to allow a fact into your brainless head.

We all have our opinion as to whether the interests of our nation are best served by Democrats or Republicans, progressives or conservatives, far-leftists, far-rightists, centrists – or any combination of the above.

But on the topic of who can contribute the most to the serving the best interests of all citizens, there is one truth that is, on its face, self-evident: those of you who live in self-imposed ignorance, or hold onto your stupidity as though it was something to be proud of, are completely, unequivocally, and undeniably useless.

Abject Stupidity – we may never wipe it out in our lifetime. But if people like YOU can’t be bothered to get a brain, morans, you can at least understand why the rest of us can’t be bothered to listen to a pointless word you say.

Are we elitists? You betcha! (Couldn’t resist translating that last comment into Palinese in an attempt to be understood by the intellectually impaired). We who seek out the real information behind proposed legislation and what it means are - you'll forgive me or not - bored to tears by those of you who can't conjure up the necessary energy to know what it is you're talking about BEFORE opening your big, fat, fuckin' mouths.

Debate the informed among us on the facts of an issue, and we’re all ears. We may not agree with you, but we are willing to engage in honest discussion.

But if all you are capable of is parroting the talking points spewed BY the ignorant FOR the ignorant, you will find that we who can actually THINK have better things to do than listen.

Got that? Good. It’s about time you finally got something.

It's a start.

[Hansel]

1. Excellent.

:applause:

[wolfgangmo]

70. Excellent rant and ...

... for every reason you mention, for every idiot you alude to and for every thing that is true here, these are the reasons that America will go down in flames. We already have 3rd world medical care, the most rationed on the planet and the most expensive. This will not change.

As Mark Twain said, "you get the government you deserve, not the government you need."

I have been in this fight for over 15 years and in my opinion nothing will change.

[JeffR]

2. You're damn real.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[saltpoint]

36. Got the wrong response spot. Sorry about that, JeffR.

My stupid.

[BrklynLiberal]

3. Thank you!!! Once again I offer you a standing ovation...

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Lifelong Protester]

4. Love Ya! Now how are we going to afford to have folks

takiing this TO the ignorant and READING IT TO THEM???

[tavalon]

88. I'll admit to having taken a few really good statements (none of Nance's though)

printed them up and put them on the windshields of people attending the local mega church.

Edited to add: I always ask permission and the reason I don't use Nance's is because hers are too well written and have big words that are hard for little minds

[NYC_SKP]

5. Great Rant! But will "they" even begin to comprehend this?

Ah, no matter.

Always a fine read, Nance.

:thumbsup: and a rec.

[InternalDialogue]

6. Bullseye.

Very nice this time, Nance.

:applause:

[bjobotts]

94. This is when they change the subject or refuse to listen any longer..If only they heard you

[bjobotts]

95. With no other way back to power repub. legislators deputize thugs to beat us into complicity

[bjobotts]

96. To disrupt political discussion and threaten everyone.so noone calls them ignorant again.

[bjobotts]

97. The open enemy is FOX.Rabble rousing hatred and violence by millionaires pretending to be like you

[bjobotts]

98. We have allowed on our national airwaves a group dedicated to destroying America

[bjobotts]

99. By the elimination of Hannity ,Beck, O'Reilly. Malkin Coulter,Rush, Savage,&Fox

[bjobotts]

101. We would be able to bring peace to an "informed" America.You know it's true.

[DutchLiberal]

106. Oh for cryin' out loud! Just use the message-field, okay?

Quit the thing with the subject lines, will you?

[Oceansaway]

7. K&R...n/t

[mnhtnbb]

8. The problem with the morans is that they are ignorant and proud of it.

[bjobotts]

102. I've talked to them and they are "willfully" ignorant. Minds made up and refuse to listen.

[tilsammans]

9. Love it! Especially:

"Debate the informed among us on the facts of an issue, and we’re all ears. We may not agree with you, but we are willing to engage in honest discussion.

But if all you are capable of is parroting the talking points spewed BY the ignorant FOR the ignorant, you will find that we who can actually THINK have better things to do than listen."

Give me VERIFIABLE FACTS and a well-reasoned opinion, and I'll listen. I might not agree with your POV, but I'll listen.

But if what you're saying is a broken record of LIE-BASED TALKING POINTS, well, it's buh-bye. :rant:

[jotsy]

10. yeah! What she said.

:applause:

[dalaigh lllama]

11. Goddam right!

This should be read aloud at the start of all these townhall meetings.

[Third Doctor]

12. thank you

I coud not have said this any better. I had a discussion with someone that thinks that the entire healthcare system will be federalized.

[madamesilverspurs]

13. Having attended one of 'their' rallies yesterday,

the only possible response to your rant is "absofuckinglutely agree"!

[abq e streeter]

14. Every single Democratic elected official, from the local dog catcher to the President

needs to start laying it on the line like this. In unity...no backing down...no apologizing....hal- a fuckin- yoo-yah brothers and sisters.

[Cha]

15. That's the way I feel and you

rant it so eloquently..thanks, Nance.

[JournalistKev87]

16. Go, go, Power Nance!

Always a pleasure to read your posts, as they are truthful, and honest. It's too bad that these morans-- who listen to Billo the clown, OxyContin Limbarf, and Glenn "The Whiner" Beck--are enablers for the idiots in power. They view these dumbholes as "True Amerikans," when, in reality, they are only concerned with money, power, and playing with their toys AKA their followers.

I thank my lucky stars that you, Nance, are fighting the good fight. I hope you are as powerful of a presence in person as you are online. :hi:

:kick:

[Mira]

17. Gratefully recommending this post. I thank you Nance, frankly, I have kept an

eye out for a post exactly like this from you. And now it showed up and I thank you.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

18. Too bad the folks who really need to read this, won't...

It might do them a world of good, if they got it! Which I doubt...

Thank you, Nance...

You are the best!


K&R

:hug:

[scarface2004]

19. yeah...efff limbaw, bek, and those other right wing fascist

fuckwads!!!

[rhett o rick]

20. The people you are addressing have no interest in the truth. They literally can not handle the truth

Joe the Plumber was a great example. When it was explained to him that Pres Obama's tax plan would benefit him, he didn't care a bit.

I recommend "The Authoritarians" by Bob Altermeyer. It explains the behavior of these right wing authoritarians.

[handmade34]

21. excellent post

The truth that their willful ignorance is something they like to be proud of is all too real... same as, "...because we've always done it this way" when everything around them is crumbling.

The greatest change I see in myself as I get older is my loss of tolerance for stupidity...

[Wetzelbill]

22. Yeah but what about ACORN?

And Hollywood? Think about it. :)

[SeattleGirl]

23. Hot damn, Nance!!!

That is one righteous rant!! :yourock:

[bjobotts]

103. Here is what their handlers hope to accomplish by cultivating these fools:

8/07/09...From Facism: are we there yet at Crooks & Liars:

“…That description sounds eerily like the dire straits our Congressional Republicans find themselves in right now. Though the GOP has been humiliated, rejected, and reduced to rump status by a series of epic national catastrophes mostly of its own making, its leadership can't even imagine governing cooperatively with the newly mobilized and ascendant Democrats. Lacking legitimate routes back to power, their last hope is to invest the hardcore remainder of their base with an undeserved legitimacy, recruit them as shock troops, and overthrow American democracy by force.

If they can't win elections or policy fights, they're more than willing to take it to the streets, and seize power by bullying Americans into silence and complicity.

When that unholy alliance is made, the third stage -- the transition to full-fledged government fascism -- begins.

Snip

“…the guessing game is over. We know beyond doubt that the Teabag movement was created out of whole cloth by astroturf groups like Dick Armey's FreedomWorks and Tim Phillips' Americans for Prosperity, with massive media help from FOX News. We see the Birther fracas -- the kind of urban myth-making that should have never made it out of the pages of the National Enquirer -- being openly ratified by Congressional Republicans. We've seen Armey's own professionally-produced field manual that carefully instructs conservative goon squads in the fine art of disrupting the democratic governing process -- and the film of public officials being terrorized and threatened to the point where some of them required armed escorts to leave the building. We've seen Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner applauding and promoting a video of the disruptions and looking forward to "a long, hot August for Democrats in Congress."
This is the sign we were waiting for -- the one that tells us that yes, kids: we are there now. America's conservative elites have openly thrown in with the country's legions of discontented far right thugs. They have explicitly deputized them and empowered them to act as their enforcement arm on America's streets, sanctioning the physical harassment and intimidation of workers, liberals, and public officials who won't do their political or economic bidding.
This is the catalyzing moment at which honest-to-Hitler fascism begins. It's also our very last chance to stop it..."

[kid a]

24. nice...kudos!!!

[kid a]

25. and a rec ;)

[ThoughtCriminal]

26. We do not need to persuade the "Morans"

Civil rights legislation of the early 60's did not pass thanks to changing the hearts and minds of the KKK membership - they lacked both. And yes, we are dealing with people that lost in willful ignorance and bigotry. In fact, it was backlash against the hateful rhetoric and violence that helped push it through. I think the key is to make it clear that we are not afraid of them and that their numbers of this shrill group of idiots are isnsignificant compared to the level of media exposure they receive.

[hfojvt]

27. you are not exactly bringing much information to the discussion here

how nice that you brought a blivet of hatred.

Nobody that you are supposedly talking to, is likely to read what you wrote, and those who did are not gonna be convinced of anything except your hatefulness and arrogance.

Worse yet, you only serve to rile up the hatred and arrogance of the Jets who are reading this. Yeah, the Sharks suck and the Jets rule!!

Should we pretend that there is more than .1% of DUers who have even read the summary of HR 3200, much less the entire thing? Here's one summary which is itself ten pages long
http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/healthreform_tri_full.pdf

I have only skimmed it. Yet I still have the nerve to have some opinions.

Your method here of convincing people to support something they don't currently support is to harshly insult them. Do you really think that is gonna convince anybody?

Amd calling somebody "useless" is really beyond the pale. Why? Because they have the nerve to not research every detail of every policy proposal out there before they voice their concerns about what is being proposed? You don't know very much about these people do you? Some of them might be farmers, mechanics, and yes, plumbers. One of the most conservative guys I know personally is my brother-in-law. He's an eye doctor. He graduated first in his class at eye doctor school too. The man is not stupid, and neither his he useless. He and my other brother-in-law spent two days building a new porch for me. Not only is he pretty smart with the eye doctor stuff, but he's pretty handy with a nail gun too. I imagine that his son and daughter are pretty fond of him too, and would not consider him useless (although I was the one who went and played catch with his son until he sorta got jealous.)

As a progressive I have respect for members of the working class, even when they don't know as much about economics as I do and get fooled by stupid things like the UnFairTax. I do my best to inform them, not bewail their inability to understand the data I present or their unwillingness to believe it.

I just don't think you sway public opinion by hurling insults at those who might disagree with you. I read this on DU "before they care what you know, they have to know that you care". You have stated plainly that you don't.

[NoSheep]

28. Even cowgirls get the blues?

[hfojvt]

31. Tom Robbins

but I never read it.

[NanceGreggs]

32. If you have understood this ...

... as my speaking to anyone who had not "researched every detail of every policy proposal out there before they voice their concerns", you have clearly missed the point.

Respect for the working class? I AM the working class. This isn't about "knowing about economics" - this is about wanting to know the facts and let them take you where they lead, instead of blindly following the opinions of others - opinions that may be based on NO facts whatsoever.

I don't hurl insults at those who disagree with me - but I DO hurl insults at those who disagree with the truth - or those who can't be bothered to find it.

The fact that you equate the "working class" with people who are ill-informed speaks volumes.

I will leave it at that.

[hfojvt]

34. those who disagree with the truth

that presumes that you already know the truth, otherwise how do you know that they are disagreeing with the truth?

It seems to me that the truth is probably pretty complicated. I bet I could spend the next month doing nothing but research about health care and various health care reforms and systems and still not be confident that I KNOW the answer, and I would be going into that research project with a fair amount of knowledge of economics and finance.

Not to mention some of the crap that is out there. One thing easy to find in research is opinions. Opinions that will represent some things as the truth and be stated very confidently.

That you think some people cannot be bothered to find "the truth" and you want to have contempt for them is unrealistic in my experience. MOST people don't really have time to try to find the truth, and for another thing, those who are looking usually develop pet theories and then they mostly look for information that fits their pet theories.

Nice of you to argue by insinuation. That 'speaks volumes'.

Uh, the vast majority of the country is part of the working class. Even my bro-in-law, in some sense. Thus it stands to reason that these people you are heaping your scorn on are also part of it.

But you seem less than pleased that I analyzed your opinion and found it wanting, instead of blindly saying "great as always Nance, KNR".

[NanceGreggs]

35. This may come as a shock ...

... but I am not the least bit interested in whether you "KNR" or not.

Being part of the working class, I am a lot more interested in next week's paycheck.

People who don't "have the time to find the truth". Fine.

The problem is people who "don't have the time to find the truth", but have PLENTY of time to opine on a topic nonetheless.

[hfojvt]

40. that is kinda hard to believe

I know that I would certainly be gratified to get even 20 Rs to one of my posts. It takes a little bit of time and effort to write even this reply, and it does not feel bad to be appreciated.

I am reminded of a story from "The Love Project" a little yellow book which I never read in its entirety, but I did read this story. The author of the book had given a speech at a meeting and this old guy stood up and blasted her, saying that it was people like her who didn't understand and messed things up with their naivete and unrealistic expectations (I am paraphrasing what he said, basically he was harshly critical).

At first, she was insulted, but then she realized that the reason he was speaking passionately was because he cared. Instead of arguing with him (or insulting him) she commended him for his concern and asked him to be part of the project.

If people are opining on a topic, it is perhaps because they care about the topic. They care about where their country is going and they are taking action.

If you know some things that they don't - fine. Try telling it to them. Telling them they are useless morons is neither informative nor helpful. Just a message of hate, and I am not a hater.

Okay, I do hate George Will, but I don't hate large swaths of caricatured people.

[saltpoint]

56. Actually the Jets pretty much suck.

I don't really have anything against them but they're often mushed and rattled by their division rivals.

What works for the Jets is their loyal fans in Jersey and Manhattan and the Bronx etc flooding the no. 7 train out to Flushing, this being an almost religious ritual for some years going back. There is a lot of heart in that rail ritual. What games the Jets managed to win might have benefited from the deep karma of that trainride ritual.

The OP can grocery list facts in formal paragraphs invoking customary persuasive strategies at any time, day or night, here or elsewhere. Among the several forms she's mastered is the rant. This one is one of those. It's an extremely heavy and well-aimed skillet out the fourth floor of a city street. Note again that it's a heavy skillet. Note again that it hits its target. The arm that threw it is not to be lightly dismissed in the opinion of this observer and likely in the opinion of its target.

[hfojvt]

84. you missed my metaphor

It's a metaphor for politics. The left wing is the Jets from West-Side story. Our gang totally rocks and its lead by Keith (Bennie) Olbermann. It includes places like DU, DKos and sometimes Huffpo. We are intelligent, kind, informed, and rational. The rival gang is the Sharks. They are lead by Limbaugh, Hannity, Billo, and Beck. They are crazy, stupid, hateful, racist, ignorant, and mean. Everything that a Jet is not, and everything that a Jet is supposed to hate with every fiber of his/her being.

I do not buy that dualism that this OP seems steeped in, I think the truth is something more like this:

"If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
-Alexandr Solzhenitsyn

[saltpoint]

104. Great show. I saw it decades ago.

Wouldn't have missed it for the world, in fact. Was involved in one of the early productions. Advised on a later one.

I got your metaphor. You still are undervaluing that no. 7 rail ritual.

[taggline]

58. INVADERS!!!

You whining little wimp. :nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity:
In this arena...you MUST fight fire with fire. Don't you think that the Con's are spewing a whole hell of a lot more hate filled swill?? Jeezus, H... are you Blue or what!?!? Get a fucking Kleenex.

[saltpoint]

60. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that I call Jeff Sessions 'useless.'

Let's say I call him a poophead.

Let's say he IS a useless poophead, hands down, no question, you better believe it, take it to the bank, by the hanging moss of the Old Confederacy, a useless poophead.

It could be that progressives know a useless poophead when they see or hear one.

[hfojvt]

85. that may be true

but what happens if he is rubber and you are glue?


Are you really sure that you want our discourse to be grade-school level?

[saltpoint]

91. I think you missed the part about the no. 7 train.

No kidding.

[The Doctor.]

62. Hint; It's called a "Rant".

* Main Entry: 1rant
* Pronunciation: \ˈrant\
* Function: verb
* Etymology: obsolete Dutch ranten, randen
* Date: 1601

intransitive verb 1 : to talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner
2 : to scold vehemently
transitive verb : to utter in a bombastic declamatory fashion

(The verb more accurately describes intent)


The point is to vent, to exclaim, factually, that a number of people in our society are simply plug fucking stupid because they can't be bothered to perform a modicum of investigation. The likely reason it is addressed directly to those individuals is particularly for the reason of expressing legitimate outrage... not for the purpose of 'swaying opinion'. The fact is, it's virtually impossible to get these people to even listen to gentle reason. So there is as much to be gained from a rant as any other earnest attempt at influence.

When historians pick apart some of these data bases, they're going to see very clearly what dynamic caused the nation to fail. And they will likely be very entertained by some of our 'rants'.

[hfojvt]

86. I think rather the point is to stir up our hate

and applaud ourselves of our own superiority. Not because we know more about HR 3200 than its critics, but just because they are 'others' and apparently a variety of sub-human vermin.

Most people are generally ill-informed or mis-informed about a lot of things. The answer to that would be to provide more information. More hate does not seem like a good thing to me. Maybe there is a shortage or something that I have not heard about.

[The Doctor.]

111. Well... I honestly cannot entirely disagree.

You've posited a rational motivation.

The sad fact is; It's true.

The vast majority of RW shitheads are exactly that. They really do not want to know the factual information that proves their programming is flawed.

To our mutual credit; I've cut through to a few minds with inexorable facts... only to have them revert back to their RW sources of disinformation. It's VERY hard not to see certain people as 'substandard' or just plain 'fucking morons', but it's just as nearly as hard to actually get through to them with gentle, clever, or even highly judicious reason.

They just don't care.

Brainwashing is pretty scary. And I know more about it than I'd like.

Your point is duly understood, even if I'm rather certain that the net result of Nance's post is somewhere in the opposite result to zero.

[hfojvt]

122. the majority of older people are probably like that

Probably nobody past the age of 25 picks up a book and says 'gosh I sure hope I can find out that some of the things I believe are wrong. In fact, my whole worldview is wrong."

It kinda depends on how many RW sh*theads there are.

[NanceGreggs]

133. I would have replied to this sooner ...

... but I was way all day yesterday.

Reading your exchanges here, I think we are speaking at cross purposes, and you have misunderstood me completely (usually the fault of the writer, not the reader).

I am not promoting hatred of anyone, informed or otherwise. Nor am I saying that "we" are superior because we "know" more than others.

My rant was specifically aimed at those who accept, without question or hesitation, the most outlandish things they hear - especially from people whose credibility is so, shall we say, "questionable" at best.

Obama's healthcare reform includes convincing the elderly to allow themselves to be euthanized? It would seem that plain old common sense would dictate that the president and his party members would NEVER promote such a ridiculous thing. Not only is it ridiculous on its face - would the Democrats persist in a plan that would so outrage the populace, they would be driven out of office in droves in every upcoming election?

And yet some people swallow that kind of garbage whole, without thinking to look into the matter - the fact that it doesn't pass the smell test or make any sense whatsoever notwithstanding.

Those who insist that Medicare is NOT a government-run healthcare program? Easy enough to determine that with a modicum of research, a few questions asked of parties who would know.

My ire is not aimed at the ill-informed - it is aimed at those who can't be bothered to inform themselves, or simply allow others to do their thinking for them.

I thought I made that clear in the OP by using terms like "deliberately misinformed", or "hold onto their stupidity as though it is something to be proud of". When you tell someone that two plus two equals four, and they keep shouting that it's three - because Rush Limbaugh says it is - yes, I believe that person is an idiot.

[hfojvt]

136. I am questioning those people too

except that I see them on DU.

"those who accept, without question or hesitation, the most outlandish things they hear"

You cannot say that you are not promoting hatred of anyone when you level the most unrestrained insults at them.

Here's a condensed version from the OP.

"they make their living by spewing complete and utter bullshit, knowing that people like you ARE too stupid to question it, no matter how incredibly ridiculous it is

you are as much of a fool as she is - maybe more so

there is no excuse for not being well-informed by reliable sources – not the gibberish you swallow from alleged “news organizations” that fill your head with nonsense because you are too lazy, or just too dumb, to allow a fact into your brainless head.

those of you who live in self-imposed ignorance, or hold onto your stupidity as though it was something to be proud of, are completely, unequivocally, and undeniably useless.

The greatest threat to this country right now is the stupidity of people like you.

those of you who can't conjure up the necessary energy to know what it is you're talking about BEFORE opening your big, fat, fuckin' mouths.

Abject Stupidity"

You call somebody, an undefined group of somebodies "too stupid, a fool, more of a fool, too lazy, too dumb, brainless, ignorant, stupid, 'completely unequivocally and undeniably useless', 'the greatest threat to this country', abjectly stupid, and posessed of 'big, fat, focking mouths'. You cannot honestly claim that you are 'not promoting hatred of anyone.' Really, that's almost as good as the line from Breakfast Club "stupid, worthless, no good, g*ddamned, freeloading, SOB, retarded, big mouth, know-it-all, a$$hole, jerk" and then his mother chimes in, "you forgot ugly, lazy and disrespectful". It's abusive language. And pretty outlandish, and seemingly accepted without question or hesitation.

Bottom line is that I don't think anybody deserves to be hated like that, I don't think such hatred benefits the person being hated, nor the person doing the hating, nor the world in general. Did you not see the thread on DU with a person leaving a hateful note because he was offended by somebody's bumperstickers? And that thread was loaded with applause and encouragement for even worse acts - key his/her car.

Although some DUers might hate me for saying it, I don't think the world needs more hate or rationalizations for hate. Perhaps I could have found a nicer way to say it, or have had a better understanding of the target of your hate, but I have seen how the definition of 'freeper' expands to seemingly include DUers who struggle with various shibboleths and your target seemed loosely defined. Once it is decided that a "them" is "worthy of hate" then the world seems to be filled with people who run around saying "ho-ho, you are one of THEM!" and then the stones quickly fly.

[NanceGreggs]

138. That's quite a leap ...

Pointing out that someone is stupid equals hating them?

I stand by my opinion as expressed. I don't hate people who refuse to inform themselves, or swallow anything they are told without questioning it - especially things they are told by such obvious hate-mongers as Rush Limbaugh.

But I don't have any respect for them. I am not interested in their ill-informed opinions. I don't want to debate them on their non-facts, nor have discussions with them on topics they obviously know nothing about.

Am I dismissive of these people? Yes, absolutely - and with good reason.

Calling that hatred is a very far stretch.

[hfojvt]

139. you went well beyond stupid

and calling somebody stupid is not the same thing as pointing it out. Pointing out an error to somebody, or even a bunch of stupid errors might lead to the conclusion that "you are stupid". But just yelling "double dumbass on you" is not the same thing.

They aren't just stupid, though, in your rant. They are "completely, unequivocally, and undeniably useless" and the "greatest threat to this country right now".

There is no leap to call that hatred. In fact, I am getting a sense of deja vu' because I am echoing the same complaint that I made about a Joseph Perkin's column back in 2003. Except the target of his hate was anti-war protestors and those stumping for the Democratic nomination.

Denying the hatred that is clearly there is pretty dishonest Nance, but I probably would get the same denial from Perkins or Limbaugh or Billo. Meanwhile, their fans and your fans are just lapping up the hateraid.

[NanceGreggs]

140. You can debate me on any topic you like ...

But please don't tell me what I feel.

If you want to call what I've said "hatred", fine. But you're saying it doesn't make it so.

Nice job of taking things out of context, BTW.

See ya :hi:!

[hfojvt]

141. dang, but you are a stubborn idiot

You are just determined to find yourself blameless in stirring up hate on the left. How disgusting, delusional, and demented can you get?



Just an illustration. Clearly, you will not find any of the above comments to be hateful.

How you feel is a moot point. How you say you feel is another, and how the reader is encouraged to feel is another as well. If I say something like "Rush Limbaugh is a demented, useless sack of excrement" then it is not a huge leap for the reader to conclude 'hfojvt hates Limbaugh' and also 'Yeah, I agree with you. I hate Limbaugh too.' The only honest way for a writer to walk that back is either to abjure it or give it some kind of other explanation. Denying that it is hateful, does not make it any less hateful. The fact that I don't know how you really feel is not relevant. All I am going by is what you said.

As for taking things out of context, I do not see that. I pulled out a quote, so it would show in stark relief. No meaning was substantially changed, nor was anybody else's quote attributed to you, or any hypothetical taken to be actual. Sure your harshest criticism was directed at a narrower group of people (perhaps) whereas your entire rant was directed at many different groups of people with some over-lap.

But like I said before, once the existence of 'an other' a 'pariah' an 'outcast' or a 'them' is posited, it is all to easy for many to conclude that others are part of that group, and thus deserving of unrestrained hate, based on very little evidence. "AHA! You said 'if'. Clearly you are one of the heretics who doubt the existence of the Great Pumpkin!"

I can only echo this guy at the end - STOP!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkdp9Qxxd08

[NanceGreggs]

142. I am a stubborn idiot ...

... because I refuse to accept your framing of what I have said, and your perception of it?

For me, "hate" is a very strong term, and a very visceral feeling. I have truly hated very few people in my life - and it was based on their behaviour, never their politics.

As for "stirring up hate here on the left", I sincerely doubt that this is how the other participants in this discussion thread read me.

But of course, they must be "stubborn idiots", too - what with not deferring to your better judgment and all ...

[hfojvt]

143. now you are taking me out of context

I only said 'you are a stubborn idiot' to get you to see how something would be considered hate speech if it was directed at yourself. I tried to make that clear when I later said 'this is for illustration'.

As for your crowd of sychophants, most of them accept my framing that 'Nance hates birthers and tea-baggers and those proud of their wilfull ignorance.' The place where we part company is not on that frame, it is on the question of whether that hate is a good thing. They think it is good, and I think it is bad.

Ironically, or not, today's Daily Howler seems to agree with me.

"Translating: Citizens have believed the things they hear from Rush and Sean (and the like) for decades. Yet on our side, we still seem surprised by this fact! We have formulated no real attempt to push back against these public idiots—to warn those citizens that they’re being played by these big stupid hacks. Instead, we tend to call those citizens names. Then, we wonder why they won’t accept our own views about such matters!

“Conservatives will be better off if reform becomes law,” the e-mailer said—thus stating his own view of this highly complex matter. He then wondered why the “wing-nuts” refuse to accept his wisdom! In part, the answer is fairly obvious: By and large, people don’t take advice from other people who keep calling them names. But this has been the dominant “liberal” approach to this phenomenon for the past twenty years."

http://www.dailyhowler.com/

[NanceGreggs]

144. I did not consider ...

... being called a "stubborn idiot" as hate speech. So I guess you failed on that point.

"As for your crowd of sychophants" ... hmmm, I guess anyone who disagrees with you or your interpretation of things is immediately worthy of scorn. Go figure. Don't you just HATE it when the rest of the population refuses to recognize that it's YOUR world, and it's all about YOU"?

"... most of them accept my framing that 'Nance hates birthers and tea-baggers and those proud of their wilfull ignorance.' The place where we part company is not on that frame, it is on the question of whether that hate is a good thing. They think it is good, and I think it is bad."

Will you be providing a link to your polling of everyone who posted here and has "accepted your framing"? Or perhaps a poll where they confirmed their belief that "hate is a good thing"?

Or is your statement that the aforesaid is true simply a matter of YOUR take on things - which, as usual, we are all meant to accept without question?

This, my friend, is the END of this discussion. You have no hesitation in citing non-facts to support YOUR argument - i.e. "most of them accept my framing that 'Nance hates birthers and tea-baggers and those proud of their wilfull ignorance.' The place where we part company is not on that frame, it is on the question of whether that hate is a good thing."

If I may say so (and I will), your ability to make things up out of whole cloth is downright Palinesque.

See ya 'round :hi:

[hfojvt]

145. it's not my world, but it is my opinion

apparently you missed this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6255447

No hate there either, eh?

Also, see post #134 "Or "tea baggers". Yes, sir, I do. And you are only saying you don't, because you want to boast about your fake moral superiority, which is nothing but a lot of nonsense."

The poster starts out "I do have contempt for ..."

Handily enough, my dictionary includes "hatred" as a synonym for 'contempt'.

I don't really have to take a poll of DUers. Do you have any idea why?

1. because it was pretty clear what you wrote/said
2. a crowd of people did this :applause:

I cannot understand your denial here.

[wolfgangmo]

69. I think you have missed the point.

It's called "not suffering fools gladly" and it's not a new concept.

[hfojvt]

89. I think you missed my point

that the human who thinks that they themself is not a fool, is probably the biggest fool of all. Socrates used to meet those people all the time - people who think they know.

You might say that Nance is describing such people, but it seems to me she is one such person. A person who is quite convinced of their own rightness and hateful of those with other opinions. The irony I tried to point out is that it is like we have our own Limbaugh. One who gives a hate-filled screed against large groups of people, and the group response is not a reasoned discussion of ideas, but rather a chorus of "knr" "well said" "right on" :applause:

Substantially no different than "ditto".

Imagine how we would feel about such a rant posted on FR and aimed at us.

Of course, we would then promote a double standard. Our hate, you see, is different and better than theirs, because ours is justified. They really are ignorant and hateful, and thus they deserve to be hated.

How can we objectively say, after cheering something like this, that we are not hateful? As for ignorance, well, this is just a guess and a parody of the late Ed McMahon, but I cannot believe that EVERY DUer knows EVERYTHING about HR 3200 or healthcare reform. or any other issue.

Furthermore, when I post informative things about economics, something I have a Master's degree in, they don't get kicked to the front page. They drop like rocks. http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/53

[DutchLiberal]

105. But "Obama is gonna kill my grandmom" is *not* a viable opinion...

... that one can counter. "Obama was born in Kenya so he's not a legitimate president" is not a viable opinion you can reason with.

Nance was talking about those kind of people; people who watch Glenn Beck and who copy his statements and beliefs as if it were the truth. There's no arguing about the stupidity of what he and his ilk spew. It has been debunked many, many times. And yet there are still people who cling to it, even going as far as to make fake birth certificates for Obama.

These people are WILLFULLY IGNORANT. They are not the conservative eye doctor, about whom you talked. They're not the working class people who don't have the time or energy to read every piece of legislation, of which you talked. Those are just people with different opinions. Those are not the people Nance talked about.

And you know it. I know you know it. You're just pretending you don't know it so you can boast about your moral superiority.

[POAS]

113. I fear you may be wasting your breath here

This poster bemoans the tone that Nance set in her post with "how nice that you brought a blivet of hatred." Now I'm not sure how much actual information he/she was hoping to bring with such a well reasoned opener but I rather think the purpose what not to inform or to smooth ruffled feathers.

Later the poster adds, "I do my best to inform them, not bewail their inability to understand the data I present or their unwillingness to believe it." While at once trying to show respect for the "working man" the poster's arrogance (of which you spoke) is revealed. The poster vaults himself as the teacher ("I do my best to inform") while demeaning the "working man" with "their inability to understand" and ""their unwillingness to believe it". Where I wonder is the poster's willingness to hear the working man and learn from him rather than assume it is their place to learn from him.

I particularly love this cry for attention: "Furthermore, when I post informative things about economics, something I have a Master's degree in, they don't get kicked to the front page. They drop like rocks."

[hfojvt]

125. was there a better way to complain about hate speech?

than calling it ten pounds of hate in a five pound bag?

As for the plea for attention. If you remember, Nance claimed that we Jets, unlike the totally useless and moronic Sharks, are actually keen to dig up facts about things. If that was true, then shouldn't a fact filled post, which I wasted a little bit of my time on, have gotten more than one reply? Maybe something should be kicked to the front page besides a message to conservatives "WE FOCKING HATE YOU!!!"

Amazingly enough, after I went to college for 8 years and got two degrees, I thought I might know a little bit more about some subjects than the average working man. At least I don't think that working people who might disagre with me are 'useless'.

[POAS]

130. Was there a better way?

In your case I'd have to say no!

[hfojvt]

124. is "some people are useless morons" a viable opinion?

Even if they are willfully ignorant, I don't see that as justification to hate them or have contempt for them. I also think it is ridiculous to call somebody ignorant, as if we all are not ignorant about lots of things. I certainly do not have tons of information about HR 3200, which Rep. Cleaver claims isn't the health care reform bill anyway.

[DutchLiberal]

134. I do have contempt for people who call themselves "birthers".

Or "tea baggers". Yes, sir, I do. And you are only saying you don't, because you want to boast about your fake moral superiority, which is nothing but a lot of nonsense.

[hfojvt]

137. or perhaps I really don't

"It is no man's right to have contempt for another man. It is only a hard won privilege earned after long experience." Isaac Asimov

I am not gonna hate a whole group of people without restraint based on some sound bite. That's not a boast, just an explanation of how I roll. If you march to the beat of a different drummer, then that is your choice. I've tried to explain why I do not encourage such a choice. You ought to be able to defend your choice without making an attack on me or my presumed motives.

Maybe I do think "I am better than that" but I was probably also hoping that lots of other people are too. Which would make my 'moral superiority' pretty common and unremarkable.

[BobTheSubgenius]

29. Wow. Just........wow.

As original and conceptual as ever, but the most visceral Nance Rant I can remember. 10\10.

[DesertFlower]

30. this should be posted on

freerepublic, but they wouldn't get it.

[tavalon]

33. I always know when you start a rant with not giving a flyin' fuck, it's gonna be a good one

This is a great one!!!!

[saltpoint]

37. I don't see what you've got against that nice Ms. Taitz.

She seems like a very nice person to me. And she's a dentist, too.

===== =======


:thumbsup: :hi:

[Oldtimeralso]

38. Abject Stupidity is a Terminal Disease

Just look at what it has done to the GOP since 1980.

[Divine Discontent]

39. did you write this for me to send to my former employers out in CO, Nance? LOL

Cuz goodness, I sure feel like sending it to them if they reply back with the same SCREAMING text they wrote me yesterday saying Obama was going to kill my sickly sibling, and ask how the elderly wanted to be put to death - seriously - from this person I feel like I'm in an alternate reality - they're not a 'stupid' couple people these former employers & friends of mine, but they're ignorant!

I will await their reply, and if they ignores what I wrote them in challenging the douchebaggery that they've been brainwashed with, I'll have to go on a rant. The letter I received from the couple was pure insanity. I've read of several DUers having trouble with their friends, family or co-workers regarding this health care bill.

So thanks for the great read and Nance Rant!
:hug:

DD

[Gman2]

41. How long, till the brownshirts show up at your brownstone?

[grantcart]

42. Their is truth and then there is fear and only apathy in between.

[Historic NY]

43. Wonderful, I think they need those re-education camps they keep talking about too.

:thumbsup::yourock:

[JTFrog]

44. Go away, Batin!

Narrator: The years passed, mankind became stupider at a frightening rate. Some had high hopes the genetic engineering would correct this trend in evolution, but sadly the greatest minds and resources were focused on conquering hair loss and prolonging erections.


:evilgrin:



Nance is spot on as usual

:thumbsup:

[BR_Parkway]

45. I'd like to give a 2nd Recommend just for "Palinese" - Bravo!

[SalmonChantedEvening]

46. K&R n/t

[The Wizard]

47. Oh Yeah

Drum roll please.
A good stiff kick in the nads of moranity.
There's no excuse for willful ignorance.

[debbierlus]

48. Yeah, we hate ignorance. Except our own - Focus on ranting to create a good health care bill

I have witnessed democrats excusing policy, appointments, and statements from the democratic administration & Congress that would have caused OUTRAGE, if any Republic politician was behind the same things.

Who are you ranting at?

The Republicans - the party the majority of the country can't stand. Have you seen the polls lately?

Right now, Obama and the dems are working on health 'reform'.

And, if we don't focus our energy on FORCING them to create a bill that represents the people, instead of big insurance and pharm, we will be NO BETTER then the Republicans.

Right now, we stand to create a mandatory private insurance system - a corporate wet dream. The public option is quickly being reduced to impotency - a political gesture - instead of a real challenge to the insurance companies.

THIS is where the outrage should lie. Our party is in power.

Our energy should lie with taking them to task.

The Republicans are out of power. If the democrats do the right thing, they will stay in power.

If they continue to capitulate to the Republicans (and Blue Dogs - same thing) while they hold their power, they won't keep it.

Nance, this is a bit of a ridiculous post given the timing. And, moderators/Skinner - a featured journal post?

[saltpoint]

53. Such twaddle.

You could afford to be a lot more affirming.

Some people just happen to write a whole lot better than the rest of us. The OP is one such.

[Syntheto]

49. It's 'Morons' Nancy, not 'Morans."

[Ikonoklast]

50. No. On DU, It is 'Morans'.

Part of DU lore.

Nance, as usual, hits the nail on the head.

[saltpoint]

57. The OP got the spelling exactly right.

[crickets]

64. It's from a misspelled sign.

Take a look and you'll see why it's hilarious. Sad, in a way, but still funny.

http://shii.org/knows/Get_A_Brain_Morans

[Hissyspit]

107. See Post #82.

[taggline]

51. Tellin' it like it IS...

Thanks for the great post. We are in an ideological warzone...and it's damned time that the Dems strap on a pair and keep the fucking pressure up. I would personally enjoy sticking a 'charger' (ever see "Man On Fire" w/ Denzel Washington??) filled with C-4, up some of these pundits asses. I'm a peace loving, '60's leftover' Viet Nam vet... But, I have kids...and I worry about their futures...hence my militancy. Fuck the Corporatocracy/Plutocracy that has spilled the blood of so many of our kids. Fuck Big Pharma and her evil twin 'The Insurance Whore'... :puke::puke::puke::puke:

[JBoy]

52. That was SO satisfying. Thanks Nance.

[Martin Eden]

54. We need a WAR ...

... on ABJECT STUPIDITY

[Gman]

55. The biggest problem with idiots is that

they don't know they're idiots nor can they even conceive that they might be idiots. We can rant all we want about them and we can shake them like a rag doll while screaming, "WTF's wrong with you?" and the won't get it and they're still idiots.

[Enthusiast]

67. They have never entertained

the possibility that they could be wrong.

[Gman]

68. That's because Rush & Hannity told them so

and since the two of them are divinely inspired, they can't be wrong. But at some point these idiots start to believe that Rush & Hannity's thoughts are the idiots' own original thoughts that Rush & Hannity reinforce so they can't be wrong because Rush & Hannity are always right. It's a circle. It's also a cognitive disorder.

[freebrew]

59. Thanks Nance..

I love reading your rants. We think alike. Maybe too much?

[rosesaylavee]

61. Yes. That's sums up where I am too.

[Tulio]

63. What's disturbing is this lunacy is the best they got to give.

Terrible marketing.

[crickets]

65. You go, Nance. K&R -nt

[Raster]

66. "The greatest threat to this country right now is ...stupidity."

:kick:

[TheKentuckian]

71. No more wiping and dangling for willful ignorance and the creation of one's own "facts"

K and fucking R

[Riley18]

72. Excellent points and a rant that rivals KO's. What these people get is disinformation.

Should become the word for dishonest information. Much like the Nazis dished out to the gullible amongst them. It is sickening to think that these liars have so little empathy for others that they seem to actually enjoy messing with them just for monetary profit.

[geckosfeet]

73. I read the entire post. Unfortunately the people who really NEED to read it

and take it to heart probably bailed after seeing it was more than three broken english sentences strung together. Never mind the content. That would be far out of their range of comprehension. They need this spoon fed to them, one simple thought at a time. They like that. That's why they watch/listen to limpbore, insanity, taiterz, and oliely.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

74. OH GoddddDAMN! I love this!!!

I'm swooning, it's so goddammed good!

Nance, you don't know me, but...

would you marry me?

:D :D :D :D :D

[Mad_Dem_X]

75. You're my hero. n/t

[krispos42]

76. Yay! n/t

[Ho Tai]

77. "Blessed are the credulous."

-- "Jay" of Nazareth

[patrice]

78. Whew!! I need a cigarette . . .

:hi:

[ScottLand]

79. I'm late getting to this one

So no one will read my comment but I have to say it nonetheless. Well said. I'm not sure I have heard this said any better. I couldn't agree more. My mother-in-law just called my wife ignorant because she doesn't want to talk about how Obama's going to kill us all. Sure, we can discuss it but it has to be without degenerating into screaming and yelling and comparing people to Hitler.:yourock:

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

118. ScottLand you'll learn

when you arrive late in line to just cut in from #207 to #5 and give it your mighty K&R to be seen.



Great diatribe btw Nance.

[ScottLand]

132. Thanks, Tom

I wasn't sure how to do that (or if it was okay to do that) but I had to say something. I think the world of NanceGreggs - this isn't the first time she said what I wish I could say!:toast:

[LiberalLovinLug]

80. Rant on Nance!

Addressing the naysayers:

Of course we need more civil discussion with those we disagree with. The audience Nance is directing this to are the ones way beyond any ability to discuss ANYTHING. They don't need to, Rush and Hannity tell them their views and thats that!

All the abuse that the golden-ruled left takes on a daily basis and one rant the other way gets the ire of some DUers? I say its healthier not to bottle it up all the time. Once in awhile we need to vent. And I love to vent vicariously through NanceGreggs, because she does it so well ;-)

And no I don't think the OP means that people have to read the whole bill to be informed. Just comprehend simple facts. Like the simple fact that IF you removed the Big Insurance profit margins, obscene CEO and executive pay and bonuses. (I heard the head of one makes over $100,000 an hour!), then that savings could go into doctors, nurses, and machinery. Take out the middle man and LOGICALLY you will have more money to 'play' with.

Or the simple fact that The Government actually IS the people. Why wouldn't you want to have a say in your health care, as a citizen, rather than leave it up to unelectable private elites?

In Canada there is a slogan "Health care is a right, not a privilege" Why is this so difficult to embrace?

Because the ones that don't are STUPID. Too stupid and close minded to even toy with the idea of actually listening to reason.

I, like Nance, have no time for Morans.

[PatSeg]

81. They believe because they want to

People like Beck and Rush just affirm their own limited beliefs. They are reacting more from fear than conviction and it is so easy to capitalize on that fear.

[Hepburn]

82. Fucking-A beautiful! Thanks!

[ejbr]

83. :) n/t

[goclark]

87. K and R Nance ~ Fantastic!

Can you send this to Jon Stewart or Bill Maher?

[solara]

90. Brilliant and spot on as usual -also cathartic and beautiful, Nance Thank you

I pray that this timely and brilliant rant will be read by millions and heard by even more


:kick:


:patriot:

[HughMoran]

92. Nice rant, Nance

I don't think we've had any intelligent debate in this country since that ass hole Reagan got elected.

[PSzymeczek]

110. I think you're right.

That was the beginning of the "folksy anti-intellectualism" movement on the Reich.

[redwitch]

93. Dayum! Nobody could have said it any better.

I think I love you! :-)

[Vinca]

100. Great rant!

As my husband always says about Limbaugh, Beck and the rest: they're rich because people are dumb.

[jimshoes]

108. Nance, you have the

best rants. :)

[earth mom]

109. This thread is laughable coming from you and all the rest of the unrec-ers on this board

who hide the truth around here on a daily basis.

Un-fucking-believeable. :eyes:

[lob1]

114. Care to explain that?

[saltpoint]

123. One of these days you ought to consider using a topic sentence

and context.

[saltpoint]

126. That darn Nance is always hiding the Truth. But I'm sure you can

find it. Go on. Start looking.

Check the freezer section of the fridge. No -- I mean in the back. Those packagaes in the front are William Jefferson's.

Now check in John Boehner's liquor cabinet. Yes, I know he has dozens of liquor cabinets, but we're looking for the Truth and you have to be more persistent.

Don't forget to check under the on-line diploma Oily Taters received. She paid good money for that diploma, so be gentle with it.

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lob1]

115. And who the fuck are you?

[lob1]

129. Ha! Poster 112 got tombstoned on his very first post.

Fast work, mods.

[ladym55]

116. Reading this was cathartic

I really can't do stupid anymore ...

My uninsured friend (who fell and now faces $26,000 in medical bills) sends me the viral email that Obama is going to euthanize all the elderly. I send her the link from snopes debunking it ... no response.

We TWICE attempt to dialog about health care reform at my church ... the first time a panel of PHYSICIANS was shouted down-- "You're lying!!!"

The second time the MINISTER was shouted down mid-sermon ... by a guy whose business has gone under.

And I just emailed your rant to a friend. Her two brothers are Faux Noise viewers ... so don't EVER bother them with anything silly like facts.

You can't have an intelligent discussion with stupid ... you can't debate an issue with someone who surrounds him or herself with talking points that DON'T MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL.

Thanks for saying what I've been thinking ... you just do it SO well!!! :applause:

[SusanaMontana41]

117. K&R

Too bad the people who really need to read this won't.

[opihimoimoi]

119. Rejection of Fantasy in favor of Truthful REALITY....with breathtaking CLARITY

GOP is an Utter Failure....They had the op and blew it with greedy shit...lost 8 years of advancement...regressed a bunch..

but as a whole...GOP cost us more than we realize....all that waste for no gain...pathetic.

[caseymoz]

120. Limbaugh, Beck, O'Reilly and the rest are paid-for propagandists.

And I mean, they don't only have "sponsors" who advertise. They have industries sending them trainloads of money to put out certain messages. I am pretty certain that there are no conservative grass roots organizations now. What you have are the wealthy and industries who are paying for propaganda and operatives to coordinate the actions of the stupid and make it look like grass-root movements.

But actually, the lack of any grass-roots within the Republican Party, outside of the most radical elements must be a of great concern to the powers behind this. They know the GOP is dead, and conservatism is turning dangerously radical.

[Styxiv]

121. WOW

Couldn't have said it better myself. i have an Aunt who THINKS she is informing people . When I try to debate her she gets angry. She spouts Republican talking points all the while claiming to be a liberitarian (translation Republican light). So I asked to to explian SEVERAL issues and her responce? "Never mind you're just too angry for me" WOW boy she sure got me there. I was like HUH?? Explain to me where I was angry explain to me how I hate? I asked you to explain a few simple FACTS but instead of countering me you simply want to ignore it. Typical right wing response can't argue the facts try and lay the blame off on them. Like you said Nance I'm willing to debate and may not like their answers but I CAN RESPECT them if they are not just simply Talking points put out by the right.

But they don't want to debate, why let a stupid little thing like the facts be in their way right. DEBATE ME!! Fine but don't send me bullcrap and expect me not to respond.

[firedupdem]

127. Happy to be #189!

Once again, you knocked it out of the park!

Thanks Nance!

[Beartracks]

128. Why are the Democrats so ANGRY all the time?

:sarcasm: obviously.

Nice rant. It's like you gave voice to that niggling frustration I feel when reading about the completely stupid things being said and done by the right-wing, especially in the health care "debate."

[rucognizant]

131. Thank you, Nancy Gregg!

[HappyCynic]

135. K&R

Brilliant as usual, Nance.