60 plus man, uses a cane, middle of the afternoon,

[Peacetrain]

just struggled to get into his house. Arresting him was stupid. There is no other side to the story. Just because he flung around some pretty pointed language in his own home, does not mean you handcuff him and drag him off to jail.

There is no other side to this story. It was a stupid stupid way to handle this.

[elleng]

1. ESPECIALLY

after he provided evidence that IT IS HIS HOME.

Quite right.

[callous taoboy]

2. Is the sticking point "disorderly conduct?"

I'm reflecting back to an incident I was involved in on my own property. I had called the cops on a neighbor who was using a jackhammer on his driveway at 7:30 in the evening with no intention of stopping until his work was done. Cops came, I walked to the end of my driveway to talk to him, neighbor walked across the street but was not on my property. Cop started siding with my neighbor (they are friends) so I loudly, angrily said something along the lines of, "Fine, Randy! You want to run me out of this neighborhood by being an asshole I'll have a damn For Sale sign up next week!" Cop said, "You better walk on back in your house before I take you in on a disorderly."

Can you be arrested for disorderly conduct on your own property?

[elleng]

4. Maybe.

Public drunkenness
Inciting a riot
disturbance of the peace
loitering in certain areas
fighting / physical altercations
obstructing traffic
use of extremely obscene or abusive language
loud or unreasonable noise


'Given the wide range of behaviors that could constitute disorderly conduct, a person may be arrested for this crime without proper cause. Virtually any socially offensive or disruptive conduct may be prosecuted as disorderly conduct.'

http://www.criminal-law-lawyer-source.com/terms/disorderly-conduct.html

Here's a broader discussion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disorderly_conduct

[godai]

8. Yes

Police can't just walk away from someone being 'disorderly' in public. The harassment of them would be never ending and escalate.

You should never say to a cop that you'll go outside to talk to his mama and call them racist, without expecting consequences.

[old mark]

12. Cops have the power to arrest anyone they feel like for anything they want,

if they can name a charge to go with it. They can handcuff you and take you the the police station and make you very miserable for a day or so before releasing you even if everything is dropped. If Gates had been a nobody, like me, he might still be in police custody - for no reason other than that he pissed them off.

You ALWAYS need the number of a good lawyer in your wallet, no matter who you are.

mark

[EffieBlack]

16. Um - the "disorderliness" was the direct result of the presence of the officer

Had the officer left, the source of Gates' "disorderliness" would have been gone.

This was not a case of, say, an intoxicated man berating passersby and who would continue to be a menace when the police left. This was a man who was angry AT a police officer standing on his front porch. Had the police officer just left, the incident would have ended.

[old mark]

23. IT DID NOT MATTER!!!! Gates was dumb enough to piss the cop off,

and the cop took him in in handcuffs. There does not need to be a "crime", just an angry cop and you WILL be arrested even though you are later released.

Why is this hard to understand?

mark

[high density]

21. I think they already suffer from never-ending harassment

The fact is the cops lingering around in this situation caused the problem rather than solved it. Also, is a private residence now considered a 'public' place?

[Milo_Bloom]

18. Absolutely.

That doesn't mean they should.

Your property isn't a magic barrier that allows you to do whatever you want. If you are disturbing the peace, they have the right to arrest you.

However, good cops look at the reason for the disturbance. In this case, the cops leaving would have ended the disturbance, thus, they should have left. This wasn't a case of a drunk person who was likely to get loud again as soon as they left.

[callous taoboy]

22. Another scenario I was involved in:

College, night time, drunk with some friends on friends' front porch. The music was up but otherwise we weren't harassing anyone or even whooping it up. Cops show up and tell us to turn the music down as neighbors complained. We comply, then resume hanging out on the front porch as cops stand around outside their patrol car across the street keeping an eye on us. Mike, the renter of the house, starts mouthing off a little as he looks directly at the cops, saying calmly, "Man, those guys don't like us at all and they would just love to come over here and take us to jail," and, "Good thing I can still drink beer on my front porch without getting harassed by the law..." One cop looked like he wanted to break it off inside of Mike, the other was just sort of shaking his head and smiling a little. They eventually blew us off and left.

[LiberalFighter]

19. I would had been complaining to my council persons, the police chief and mayor

to complain about that officer's conduct. Of course, they all know me and I'm involved in the Democratic Party

[TwilightGardener]

24. Have to say, off the point, that 7:30 isn't that late to run a jackhammer.

I side with your neighbor and the cop.

[uponit7771]

3. There are a very few defending the cops, I think this is what frustrates me as a black man because..

..they know it's stupid to arrest someone after following a lawful order

[Peacetrain]

5. We are a mulit-racial family, and if someone came in my house

after an incident like that, I might over-react verbally. We have police officers in our family also. One is a Virginia State Trooper.. You do not arrest someone for being upset in a situation like that. His identity had been established. And I bet you a dollar to a doughnut he did say, You don't know who you are messing with, when they ordered him on the porch. Hey I would have been saying the same thing, and I have the clout of a marshmallow.

This is the middle of the day.. sun shining, not 2 in the morning. There is not a music track going on in the background.. "what'cha going to do when the come for you"

[Jennicut]

25. I hear ya Peacetrain. My best friend's boyfriend (a good friend of mine too) is a CT State Trooper

He has said many times he is trained on how NOT to escalate as situation. The cop over reacted. Gates merely stood up for himself. "Pissing off" a cop is not a reason to arrest somebody! Its abusive of one's powers.

[seaglass]

6. How did he go from 58 to 60+ in less than a week? Will he be 70 next week? n/t

[Peacetrain]

7. I thought he was 61, if he is 58 that just changes everything NT

:crazy:

[seaglass]

9. No it doesn't change anything except that DUers I guess feel free

to just make shit up to support their point of view. Why would you say 60+ without looking it up - do you not care about facts?

[Peacetrain]

10. Nice try, but that does not work with me...

[seaglass]

14. Factual information does not matter? I don't know what you think

I am trying to do, just pointing out that you are factually incorrect. It diminishes the credibility of your opinion in my eyes when you can't get easily obtainable facts correct. YMMV

[stray cat]

11. Should anyone ever get arrested for disorderly conduct in their own home?

Do police officers, medical personal or others have any right to inforce decent conduct? Would a black police officer have the right to arrest a skin head who was ranting and calling him racial slurs - if the skin head was in his own house? People get arrested for harrassing police and medical personal - should they? As long as you are not threatening people in your house with bodily harm can you do anything you want?

[godai]

13. Apparently Gates was outside.

WP today...Crowley: The professor at any time could have resolved the issue by quieting down and/or going back inside his house.

[EffieBlack]

17. EffieBlack to Crowley: You, the guy with the gun and the badge and the training, could have resolved

the issue by apologizing for disturbing Professor Gates, getting off his property and then leaving him the hell alone.

[LiberalFighter]

20. The officer wanted Gates to go outside. He urged him to go outside.

[bigwillq]

15. I agree.

The cops didn't use their best judgment in this situation.

[Jackpine Radical]

26. Thank you. I agree entirely. (nt)

[Veruca Salt]

27. Damn right!

The cops did NOT need to arrest him for anything. I'm glad Obama said what he did because crap like this needs to stop and stop now.