The officer's perspective....

[busymom]

I'm going to say this first....

I'm white. I know that this now negates anything I am about to say, but I'll say it anyway.

Racial profiling is a real problem and there have been many terrible things that have happened as a result. I can imagine that there is a lot of hurt and anger as a result of this and it is justified.

Consider for just a minute, the police officers....these are the men and women on the streets daily who see people viciously attacked and brutalized by people of all different colors...they are the ones to respond when someone breaks into a home and attacks/kills someone (white/black/asian/hispanic....these types of crimes happen by members of all of these ethnic groups). Imagine the fear one might feel going into a situation like this...not knowing if you will enter a home where a crime is taking place, where someone has a lethal weapon that they might try and use... All you know is that someone has broken into a home. You don't know if he is the homeowner, a rapist, murderer, or robber. Age doesn't matter. There have been old white men who have attacked young women....

Quite frankly, Gates should have handed over his ID calmly...he might have realized that actually this wasn't about racial profiling at all as much as it was a report that someone was breaking into a home. Hell, I would call the police if I saw anyone breaking into a house regardless of the color of the skin or their age!

[billyoc]

1. I couldn't agree more, you're being white negates anything you have to say on the subject.

[Drunken Irishman]

2. lol

[DevonRex]

4. hee hee

[These Eyes]

20. !!!…

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Jim Sagle]

51. Fuckin' A!

:thumbsup:

[MellowDem]

92. Cue the bigots....

Personally, I think anyone who says that the color of their skin negates anything they have to say about a subject to be self-hating/ignorant in some way.

And anyone who agrees with them to be just as woefully ignorant and hateful, though maybe not of themselves.

And it's "your", not "you're", but it goes along with the ignorance meme.

[dave29]

100. bwahahahah

.

[busymom]

101. Ahh..racism swings both ways here, doesn't it!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

3. Yes, Im sure those police were terrified of a 150 lb old black man who walks with a cane.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

8. They probably looked up who lived there and knew who it was when they saw him

[SemiCharmedQuark]

11. No, but they sure as hell knew he was the owner of the house when they arrested him.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

13. I thought as much!

[uponit7771]

19. yeap

[DURHAM D]

35. He doesn't own the house. nt

[SemiCharmedQuark]

38. His residence is listed on the ID he provided. It was his legal residence.

[DURHAM D]

50. Yes he lives there. Your mistake - you said he owned it.

I assume you know the difference.

JFTR - the homeowner of record and mailing address (no phone numbers) could have been quickly found through the county website - Register of Deeds, Land Records or tax records. At least this available in most counties now. The police officer would need to have a laptop in his hand and some title work training to manage the task. Needless to say, the occupant/tenant is not available.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

52. And that changes things...not at all since Gates' address was listed on his ID as the current

address in question and THEREFORE he was not breaking into the house.

[DURHAM D]

54. just everything you are trying to say

get excited much...?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

55. Please explain how it changes anything. He was able to prove he was NOT breaking into the house.

Which was their whole purpose for being there.

[busymom]

9. A police officer...

should be respected when they ask someone who just broke into his home for ID.

What if someone broke into a home, claimed it was his and the police didn't ask for ID because they didn't want to offend the man and it turned out that it was a criminal breaking into the house...then the police would be responsible for that too.

What were they supposed to do? Take his WORD for it?

Seriously, a black police officer saved my life when I was 5 years old. I have nothing but respect for the police and I don't care what their racial or ethnic background is.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

10. But he SHOWED them his ID and was arrested anyway.

Hurt feelings are not a good reason to arrest someone.

[DevonRex]

12. He gave the officer his fucking ID. That should have been the END OF IT.

Instead a white cop arrests a black man for BEING IN HIS OWN HOME.

[Raineyb]

44. First of all he didn't break into his home. The door was jammed he used a KEY to open the back

door then tried to unjam the front door.

2. The man DID show the cops ID. That is when it should have ended. That the cops did not leave after having established that Prof. Gates was the person who lived in the house is evidence of the type of disrespect that the police show black people that a similarly positioned white person would not have to put up with. Had Professor Gates been a white man the cop would have apologized for disturbing him and gone about his business. But the officer didn't do that then had the nerve to get arrest the man for disorderly conduct in his own home!

Spare me the respect bullshit the cop was out of line. Your excuse making is rather telling on your attitudes. There is no obligation on the part of anyone to behave in an obsequious, servile manner in order to not be arrested on bullshit charges. The cop is supposed to be a professional which means if things get heated it's incumbent on him to diffuse the situation. That he couldn't, or wouldn't only shows that he's nothing more than a bully and a thug with a badge and needs to be fired.

[firedupdem]

94. Thanks Raineyb n/t

[Th1onein]

61. WHAT?

Excuse me, but "a police officer should be respected when they ask someone...." That's just plain old fucking bullshit.

We have the RIGHT to disrespect a police officer. You understand that? It's called free speech. We have the RIGHT to call him a jerk, a pig, or whatever. It's called free speech. You get that?

They DON'T have the right to arrest us when we call them jerks, or pigs. They do NOT have that right. They don't have the right to taser us either. They are violating our civil rights when they do these things, do you understand that?

[Milo_Bloom]

75. Actually, they do have the right to arrest you if you get in their face.

The cops were wrong in this instance, because they got the ID and that SHOULD have been the end of it.

However, they absolutely can arrest you for disorderly conduct in most jurisdictions if you decide to start screaming at them, calling them "jerks" "pigs" or anything else.

[Th1onein]

78. The Supremes ruled on that one a long time ago, dude.

You can call them jerks and pigs. It's your constitutional right. Look it up. It's called free speech. Speech, however distasteful, is NOT conduct, got it?

[Milo_Bloom]

81. Wrong.

I suggest you research a little better "dude".

You can't be arrested for using the word "pig" or "jerk"; however, if you are screaming in their face or otherwise causing a disturbance, you can be arrested for disorderly conduct.

It's kinda like flag burning. You can't be arrested for burning the flag, but you likely can for starting a fire.

[Th1onein]

83. If I'm on my fucking property, like Gates was....

And I get in their fucking face and scream at them, call them pigs and idiots, they cannot arrest me. In fact, I have done just that. They THREATENED to arrest me, but I called the cops on them, told them they better get their asses off of my porch. If you are on your own property, at the point where they know it's your property, and there is no crime there, they MUST LEAVE. They are trespassing, if they don't.

And, if you call them pigs and idiots, as long as you aren't screaming at the top of your lungs in a PUBLIC place, they have no right to arrest you.

And, by the way, it's people like YOU who don't bother to learn what their rights are, who they take advantage of. And when you do NOTHING about it, but cowtow in subservience, then they think it's okay to do the same to the rest of us.

When people like Gates and others stand up to them and know our rights, and insist that they do not cross that line, they fight the fight that YOU should be fighting, but do not, because you don't bother to learn what your rights are, and you are too busy doing other shit, rather than exercising those rights.

[Milo_Bloom]

122. Again, wrong.

You can be arrested for making too much noise on your own property.

[Hutzpa]

131. WRONG!

the police can tell you to reframe from causing noise but they cannot arrest,
thats an environmental issues.....like the poster said above, learn your
rights.

[Milo_Bloom]

137. Learn the law.

They can tell you to refrane from noise and then arrest you if you don't.

Heck, they don't HAVE TO give you a warning... they can just arrest you if they please.

You have no right to disturb the peace... NONE.

[JayMusgrove]

84. Ha? you seem to think it's OKAY to arrest a guy who

isn't happy with the police in his own house, without a warrant, without probable cause.......insulting the resident...disrespecting the resident, refusing to reveal ID of the police......while resident reveals his?????

I think you have basic rights mixed up with rights of the police to fuck you over..........I side with the citizens, you seem to side with the militia, the police, the white folks...........we settled that 145+ years ago.......

[Milo_Bloom]

123. Read my post

As I stated, the cops were 100% wrong in this case. Once they found out it was his home, they should have left and that should have been it.

However, to suggest that you have the right to scream and yell at the police and they aren't allowed to do anything about it is simply wrong. You don't have the right to cause a commotion.

[Hutzpa]

134. Either you're mixing up your facts or

you don't know what you are talking about, how does shouting at a police officer can be seen
as casing a commotion? How???

[Milo_Bloom]

138. Because it is all subjective.

If the officer decides you are "disturbing the peace", they can arrest you for it. Same with "disorderly conduct".

You may not get convincted or you may, depending upon the facts.. but they can certainly arrest you for it.

However, this is NOT in reference to this case, in which the officers did, in fact, act stupidly.

[Teaser]

80. quit your fucking wanking

he showed the ID.

You ready to close your soundhole now?

[fishwax]

88. They didn't have to take his word for it. He showed his idea.

[Number23]

41. Thank you, SemiCharmed. Although "cane" and "150 lb" have far less signficance than "black"

in this country.

[provis99]

5. Gate's side of the story has come out

He said he did politely hand over his id. Obviously, the stupid cops lied to cover their moronic asses, just as all cops do.

[JI7]

6. HAHHAHA, the cop KNEW Gates was in his own home when he arrested him

[Raineyb]

7. Yawn!

More apologist bullshit. It's really quite tiresome.

[These Eyes]

26. I so agree with you…

They just won't give up on defending the indefensible. Could it be that they see the officer in themselves?

[Uzybone]

14. He should have made sure his hands were behind his back

and stood with a slight bow as he addressed the officer. You sure don't want to do anything but show total servility to an office you know.

[rzemanfl]

15. I just saw the cop on TV. He said he did not vote for Obama,

Wouldn't you be upset if a McCain-Palin voter came into your house? Such people are certainly not welcome in mine.

[Fearless]

29. Non-sequitur.

[rzemanfl]

59. Then he would have just said "I didn't vote." It was clear from the

way he said it that he meant he voted for the Repukes.

[Fearless]

63. Does that make him a racist?

His past activities in the community seem to say differently.

[emilyg]

Does it make him a racist? On

DU it does. In my mind - no.

[Fearless]

68. Just asking.

[davidwparker]

16. "Gates should have handed over his ID calmly" - AGREED. Why is it so

difficult for people to COMPLY.

[fishwax]

89. he did comply

[Honeycombe8]

17. I agree. The neighbor was doing HER job at calling it in. Cops were doing THEIR job...

at responding to the call-in.

They were doing something beneficial for Gates. They didn't just show up to hassle someone.

Let's not forget that Gates WAS, in fact, prying his door open because he didn't have his keys.

Let's not forget it was someone in the neighborhood who called it in. (Do the people in that neighborhood not know each other?)

I think this was mainly about Gates thinking he was too important and famous to have to show ID to some lowly street cop. (Remember he told the cop..."You don't know who you're dealing with!" Then he tells the cop how famous he is.)

The cop is just a workin' guy. He gets sent to check out a possible break-in. The description includes what the guy is wearing and that he's Af. American. A guy matching that description answers the door. Cop says okay, show me some proof you live here, and I'll be on my way. At that point Gates gets irate. For what? Cop's just doin' his job. And Gates refuses to show proof he lives there. That's what started it all.

Just who IS that neighbor who called it in, and why does she not know who her neighbors are?

[DevonRex]

21. Read the post just below. It's important.

[Honeycombe8]

34. Um....It has nothing to do with the Gates incident. Facts are hard to deal with..

I know. Esp. when they don't support racism claims. They are pesky little things. But they exist, and there's nothing you or I can do about them.

Oh, but the end of the post you refer to, that says Gates "calmly" showed his ID. Not exactly factual. Gates got irate initially and refused to show proof he lived there. Then asked cop for name & badge # (nothing wrong w/that, but shows Gates' frame of mind). He's MAKING the incident a big one. His actions are causing the incident to be bigger than it is. It's really a routine thing. Show me your ID...I'll be on my way. Gates refused.

In the end he did. But after what? What all did Gates say? What did the cop say?

All the facts are not out yet, about what lead to the arrest. But at the get-go, without a doubt, the cop was simply following up on a routine possible break-in call. He shows up. Guy matches description. Cop asks for ID. Routine. Gates should've thanked the cop for following up on teh call and helping to protect his property, showed his ID, and then thanked the neighbor for reporting possible suspicious activity. We all want that....at least most of us do.

[fishwax]

90. "Facts are hard to deal with," as your post shows, filled as it is with conjecture and disputed

details passed off as those "pesky little things."

[busymom]

25. I agree! I would

call the police if I saw someone breaking into my neighbor's house at night if I didn't recognize my neighbor because it was dark or I thought they were still out of town!

[scheming daemons]

28. It was noon. Broad daylight.

[DevonRex]

30. They're not interested in facts.

[busymom]

39. I would call the police in the middle of the day...

or night...anytime...if I heard suspicious noises, saw someone breaking into a home but couldn't see the person, or thought I might be witnessing a crime in progress. I would rather be safe than sorry...I would be willing to risk pissing off my neighbor to save his life or his home.

[scheming daemons]

42. So in broad daylight, you wouldn't be able to recognize your only black neighbor.. one with a cane

yeah... right. Because 60+ year old black men who walk with a cane are ALWAYS breaking into homes.

....and he's lived there for a few years.... she didn't know her neighbor was Professor Gates?


Ok...

:eyes:

[busymom]

48. supposedly

at least according to one of the stories, he used a key to open the back door and then his limo driver and he opened the front door. I'm assuming that Gates was inside the house while breaking in? Was the limo driver black as well? Was he a regular limo driver for Gates that the neighbor would have recognized?

[scheming daemons]

56. Her 911 call stated that "two black men with backpacks are breaking in"

...neither man had a backpack.

[Change has come]

95. Is it common...

for burglars to pull up to the victims home in a limo?

[TheCowsCameHome]

46. It's not uncommon to not know one's neighbors.

It's 2009. Plus it's in the big city.

I can't tell you the name of the guy acros the street after 16 years of living here.

And I like it that way.

[DURHAM D]

60. Same here - 19 years. I would like to meet them some day however.

According to the county records a middle aged married couple live there - I have never seen either one of them. I understand (from the one neighbor who met them when they moved in) that they own several Mexican restaurants. I assume they are hispanic but I don't really know.

If I saw anyone of any color trying to break into the house I would call the police - its the neighborly thing to do.

[Spazito]

18. You need to, at least, have your facts somewhat straight...

especially when your base your whole OP on them:

I’m saying ‘You need to send someone to fix my lock.’ All of a sudden, there was a policeman on my porch. And I thought, ‘This is strange.’ So I went over to the front porch still holding the phone, and I said ‘Officer, can I help you?’ And he said, ‘Would you step outside onto the porch.’ And the way he said it, I knew he wasn’t canvassing for the police benevolent association. All the hairs stood up on the back of my neck, and I realized that I was in danger. And I said to him no, out of instinct. I said, ‘No, I will not.’

My lawyers later told me that that was a good move and had I walked out onto the porch he could have arrested me for breaking and entering. He said ‘I’m here to investigate a 911 call for breaking and entering into this house.’ And I said ‘That’s ridiculous because this happens to be my house. And I’m a Harvard professor.’ He says ‘Can you prove that you’re a Harvard professor?’ I said yes, I turned and closed the front door to the kitchen where I’d left my wallet, and I got out my Harvard ID and my Massachusetts driver’s license which includes my address and I handed them to him. And he’s sitting there looking at them.

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,1

Dr. Gates did give his ID calmly.

When you post this:

"I'm white. I know that this now negates anything I am about to say, but I'll say it anyway."

It is a phony 'I will be the white martyr in this' and DOES negate what you post not because you are white but because you set it up to fail with that very statement, imo.

[Fearless]

31. Of course it negates it if you take his OWN word for it.

[Spazito]

45. Here are the TWO versions of the police report...

The original one the media received shortly after the arrest which was removed from the media website and a shorter one put up. Note the differences yet both are 'the' police report:

The first 'version' (the one subsequently scrubbed from the site):

http://www.samefacts.com/archives/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDF

The second version (replacing the first one)

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Original_PDF/2009/07/21/0721docket_redacted_revised__1248200728_6644.pdf

It is really worthwhile to note the difference between the two versions of the SAME report. After reading both, one might question who is more likely to be telling the truth: the person with only ONE version or the police which have TWO versions it seems.

[Fearless]

49. Two different people filled reports... Likely there will be two more as there were...

Four officers present. They are Sgt. Crowley and Officer Figueroa. The second report is Figueroa's who is later to the scene, as Crowley followed procedure and called for backup before entering a house at a potential break in.

[Spazito]

57. It seems the officers still have a different version of the event even when they were BOTH in ....

attendance. Do they 'reconcile' their reports before the 'official' report is made public or do both stand alone? For example "Ya mama..." quote is in one report yet it is absent in the other yet both officers were present at that time.

[Fearless]

58. No. If you read the texts, they are quite similar.

The second comes into play at the point where the first originally leaves the house, but is stopped and turned around by the ranting Gates.

[Spazito]

69. You are incorrect, the second states quite clearly...

"I stepped into the residence and Sgt. Crowley had already entered and was speaking to a black male.

As I stepped in, I heard Sgt. Crowley asking for the gentleman's information which he stated "NO I WILL NOT!" The gentleman was shouting out to the Sgt. that the Sgt. was a racist and yelled that "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO BLACK MEN IN AMERICA!" As the Sgt. was trying to calm the gentleman, the gentleman shouted "You don't know who you are messing with."

I stepped outside..."

It is clear the second report began in the house shortly after Sgt. Crowley entered and NOT preceeding the first after the officer vacated the home and stood on the porch.

[busymom]

53. I would love to read the statements made by

all of the citizens, the neighbor and the university police as well.

[Spazito]

62. Given there is to be an investigation into the actions of the officers...

presumably there will be a report made public on completion. Whether the statements of the passerby/neighbor and others who witnessed the arrest being made on Dr. Gates front porch will be released is a question.

If Dr. Gates files a civil suit, all will be made public.

You seem to think there is outrage that a report was called in but I have seen very few posts focusing on that and it was more to do with why the person who called in the report didn't recognize her 'neighbor', if indeed he was her neighbor as opposed to the person being a passerby.

[Fearless]

65. Well he does rent the property. And the house had been broken into before.

[Spazito]

74. His ID had his current address ....

and Dr. Gates also provided his Harvard University identification.

[Fearless]

77. And once shown, the officer left the house, only to be pursued by Gates...

Who was shouting. He was then arrested. So what?

[Spazito]

82. You posted he rented the house...

which seemed to imply his ID didn't reflect the home as his address. If that was not what you were implying, what did you mean when you posted:

"Well he does rent the property."

Edited to correct grammar.

[Fearless]

91. Why a neighbor may not know him.

[Spazito]

96. Ahhh, I understand your point re the renter. I don't believe I raised..

any questions related to whether the person who called in the report should or should not have recognized Dr. Gates. Actually, I thought when I posted this,"passerby/neighbor" it was relatively clear it may not have been a neighbor but, rather, a passerby who may well not have recognized Dr. Gates so whether the person who called in the report was his neighbor or not seemed to me to be extraneous to the central issue.

[Fearless]

104. It would be interesting however as it seems the only point not discussed yet.

:eyes:

[Spazito]

107. It certainly has been raised by some posters, not most and not by

me. It seems irrelevant to the central issue imo.

[Fearless]

110. In reality here's an easy place for racism shouts to be directed actually...

Seeing a black man "break in" his house. Calling the police... you'd figure at least one DUer would have thought up that one.

I comment purely on retrospection, not caring one way or the other.

[Spazito]

112. The person who called it in did not have the power/authority to...

investigate or arrest Dr. Gates so there is no equivalency even wrt the question of racism/racial profiling. As I stated in my previous post, this has been raised by a few DUers but most have focused on the central issue.

[Fearless]

115. If you want to talk about racism in America we do not pick and choose who to look at.

[Spazito]

117. Yes that is true when the subject is racism in America but that was not...

the topic of the thread. It was discussing the actions of the police and racial profiling in a specific set of circumstances. In that case, it stands to reason the focus would be on the central figures involved in the specific incident as opposed to the more peripheral ones.

[seaglass]

47. You don't know that this is fact - it is Gates statement. It could be true, untrue

or partially true/untrue.

I do not get why people take another person's statement - whether it is Gates' or Crowley's and state THIS IS FACT.

No one on all of DU knows the facts - they know bits and pieces of truths and untruths.

[Spazito]

76. I put both Dr. Gates version of the incident and the TWO police reports out there...

that way DUers can judge for themselves with what is currently known.

[lynne]

22. I agree with you on this -

- my husband is retired law enforcement and we've been talking about this. Had the officer not asked for ID and Gates had been a convincing thief in the process of a burglary, just imagine the outcry had the officer taken his word, left, and the house then cleaned out. He needed to see ID that included an address and a picture to make sure no crime was in progress especially since the area had been victimized recently.

Frankly, the officer was in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. Had Gates just showed appropriate ID when asked, I doubt the matter would have escalated as it did and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[DevonRex]

24. He DID show his identification. Read Spazito's post above.

[busymom]

32. I know...or imagine if it wasn't a robbery

but turned into an assault or murder! The police dept. would have been sued into the next millennium. People can't have it both ways.


You know, I jimmied my way into my car 3 years ago with a coat hanger and in the middle of it was stopped and asked for ID (which was in my purse on the front seat, of course). I'm glad that there are police out there looking out for my safety and welfare...and I didn't scream at the officer, accuse them of being misogynists and have a tantrum. Actually, after talking to them they helped me get my car open and then checked my ID AND the status of my insurance!

[DevonRex]

36. Read Spazito's post above. You're wrong on so many levels.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

37. He. Showed. His. ID. Before. He. Was. Arrested.

Once again.

[DevonRex]

40. That doesn't matter to "some" people. *sigh*

[MrModerate]

23. What appears to have happened is that Gates got really pissed off . . .

And so did the cop. However, the cop was the one empowered by the state to shoot Gates dead if, in his professional judgment, it was necessary. Not exactly a symmetrical relationship. And no way conflicts between cops and citizens can ever be symmetrical.

Frankly, I don't know anything about Gates' temper or how touchy he is about perceived racial slights. Perhaps he should have been more appreciative of the fact that the cop was trying to protect the property Gates was standing in, which is to say, Gates' property. But, once Gates produced his ID, the cop had a professional duty to back off. The fact that he didn't was (as someone has said) "stupid."

[Fearless]

33. He did. The altercation didn't happen in the house...

He turned and walked out. The altercation leading to arrest occurred on the front stoop.

[Fearless]

27. Enjoy the flamefest.

:eyes:

I'd help you, but I'm all argued out for the day.

Suffice to say. I agree with everything you just said.

[DURHAM D]

64. I don't know about you but

I have become somewhat concerned about reading and hearing comprehension levels...

[Fearless]

66. Heh heh.

:rofl:


Try this one...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3983077&mesg_id=3983077

[TheCowsCameHome]

43. After today I wish I owned the popcorn concession here.

I'd be livin' tall about now.

[Fearless]

70. Sooo bloated!

:puke:

[K Gardner]

67. Very happy to be able to UNrec this. It's not your "being white" that "negates" this .. it's the

sheer nonfactual nonsense of it that makes me wonder why you even bothered to write it at all.

[emilyg]

71. You have all the facts? Were you there.?

[Fearless]

72. 3

[Fire1]

73. Agree. n/t

[Teaser]

79. this is some really stupid shit

.

[JayMusgrove]

85. THERE is NO "OFFICER's PERSCPECTIVE"

There is no "OFFICER'S Perspective" there is an American USA perspective............

If you want to defend a stupid acting fucker white cop, fine.........do it.......it's a free country...


I prefer to give EVERY AMERICAN the rights to object verbally to having their house invaded, without probable cause, without threat,,,,,,,,,without reason to arrest...........etc etc.....................you differ......

Tell us why this guy should have been arrested...........that's the issue, not the request for ID.....ok?

[busymom]

98. My brother was arrested a few years ago for

getting outrageously mouthy after being stopped. He would have simply been able to leave with a ticket...but he couldn't hold his tongue and let loose. This was in TX. My brother is white. Damn that whitey profiling.

And...my brother's blasted need to smart off and be belligerent!

Speaking of profiling...I'm a white woman who is stopped nearly every time in the airport. Should I call my lawyer?

[fishwax]

86. I see many people who admit that racial profiling (for example) exists in the general case, but then

always find a way to explain why a specific case is not an example.

[depakid]

87. The thin blue line- very well stated

and it underscores the cowardice that permeates this nation.

[Lars39]

93. These are the men and women who are taught how to defuse tense situations.

[bertman]

97. Thank you for posting this, busymom. But why do you feel that being white negates

anything you say? Because so many people on this website think that is true? I could view the statement as a sarcastic dig, but somehow I think it was one of those sad truths that apply to a lot of folks here.

I appreciate your willingness to express your opinion despite it going against the grain of the herd. And I agree with what you said about police officers.

[busymom]

99. I didn't mean it as a sarcastic dig, sadly...

I understand that racial issues have divided this nation, but at what point does the healing ever begin? White people in this nation elected a black man as president. My radiation oncologist was an incredible black man who I was proud to have as my physician. A black man saved my life when I was 5 years old.

For healing to begin, there has to be a willingness to forgive...for people to open their hearts and be willing to believe that not every white officer is a *whitey* waiting to do them wrong. Cooler heads have to prevail and what a disappointment that a Harvard professor could not calmly get his ID and give the officer a chance to prove that he was only checking out a report of a break-in. Can you imagine if no one had checked it out and it HAD been a break-in?

It is not white people that can begin the healing....it has to come from those who have felt most hurt...until that happens, there will not be a feeling of equality.

White people overwhelmingly elected Barack Obama to be president of the United States...people can take that as the first sign that most white people feel there is racial equality now...or they can hold onto their anger and hatred and stay stuck.

[CakeGrrl]

102. WTF?

No, the black community is not obligated to turn the other cheek when a security guard in the Bay Area shoots a handcuffed black kid in the back.

No, the black community is not obligated to say 'let's just forgive and forget' when an African immigrant has a toilet plunger shoved up his ass in NYC.

No, the black community is not obligated to let bygones be bygones when a black man is arrested after presenting ID that PROVED he lived at that residence.

Those actions are abuses of power and require accountability, not kumbaya forgiveness.

[busymom]

109. That isn't what I suggested, but

there are also whites who are abused by officers...and Latinos....and Hispanics...and Asians....

Power can and does corrupt and it is wrong. This doesn't mean that it is racism.

He was beligerent and followed the officer out. Neighbors reported that his behavior was erratic. Gates was not acting appropriately. My brother was arrested for the same...

[CakeGrrl]

116. You're implying that the wronged need to take the high road

and forgive their oppressors, if I was reading you correctly.

Yet I still don't understand your point with regard to the Gates case.

The charges were dropped; they knew the officer was wrong. When Gates DID prove that he was the occupant of the house and was not a threat to the officer, the officer could have - and should have - walked away. At that point, he was not nobly or bravely facing down an unknown threat or a burglar; he decided to take offense to Gates' words and took liberties with his power of privilege.

[bertman]

126. CakeGrrl, the officer did not shoot anyone, nor did he shove a plunger up Gates' ass.

Do you think that every white police officer in the nation should be held accountable for the horrific actions of a few officers? If so, I assume that you would also agree that every black man should be held accountable for the actions of a few black men who have committed horrific crimes. Because that seems to be what you are saying here.

A large part of the problem in this incident appears to stem from the very attitude toward police officers that you are displaying.

The fact that the charges were dropped DOES NOT indicate that the police felt Mr. Gates was innocent of the charges OR that the officer was wrong in his actions. Dropping charges is a PR (public relations) act that takes place hundreds of thousands of times every year in police departments all over this country. It's usually an indicator that there was no violent or criminal intent and that the person who was charged is not a danger to the public.

[busymom]

128. Exactly right!

[bertrussell]

119. "Most white people feel there is racial equality now" Hahahahaha!

"...people can take that as the first sign that most white people feel there is racial equality now..."

Do you realize what you said, busymom?

Do you understand that you've missed the whole point?

"Ok, blacks, it's all ok. We feel we all enjoy racial equality now. Quit yer bitchin'. No. Really. Stop it. We voted for one of you. It's over. We're good, right? Just remember to talk really nice to the police and you'll be fine. Isn't this great? Isn't it nice that most white people feel there is equality now?"

[PretzelWarrior]

103. you may be right about how he COULD have averted being cuffed and stuffed

but the point is he SHOULDN'T have been based on the evidence. This cop should lose his job.

[Fearless]

105. For doing his job word for word he should lose his job... mmhmm...

This is going to end bad one way or another. Too many people have vested too much into a subject that should be settled and done.

[TheKentuckian]

106. The officer's perspective....should have been to apologize for any hassle and

carry his monkey ass down the road when he had proof that no crime was committed.

If they can't handle the pressures of the occupation professionally then they need a new line of work.

[busymom]

111. And there we see the problem....

He should have carried his monkey ass down the road?

He was coming to make sure a break-in wasn't happening where someone was being robbed or hurt...but it is his monkey ass?

I wonder how we could solve this...perhaps we could stick to our own specific races? black doctors treating black patients, asian officers helping asian victims/arresting asian perps, hispanic teachers teaching hispanic kids, female nurses for female patients and male nurses for male patients.....the same level of nonsense will prevail, but at least we won't be able to blame an -ism.

[TheKentuckian]

113. I didn't say a damn thing about race. He's a monkey ass for not scooting the fuck along when his

duties were discharged.

Once he saw that ID then he had no more business in that man's house than I do.

We can 'solve this' by having peace officers remembering that they are public servants and officers of the peace.

[busymom]

114. and by reminding dumbasses of all

ethnic backgrounds that these peace officers provide a great service and should be treated with respect.

[CakeGrrl]

121. So, you're blaming Gates for not showing the proper amount of RESPECT

to the police officer? Do you believe he deserved to be arrested even after showing his ID because he spoke back?

Is that what I'm understanding? Because "police deserve respect" seems to be the recurring theme in your posts and I don't know where else you're going with this.

[Spazito]

127. Geez, you are beyond belief

You state this:

"I wonder how we could solve this...perhaps we could stick to our own specific races? black doctors treating black patients, asian officers helping asian victims/arresting asian perps, hispanic teachers teaching hispanic kids, female nurses for female patients and male nurses for male patients.....the same level of nonsense will prevail, but at least we won't be able to blame an -ism."


Have you ever heard the term "separate but equal", I suspect you have and you would applaud it if that were to be the law of the land again.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see."

[busymom]

129. sarcasm alert

[Spazito]

130. Uhhh, given your consistent posts on the subject, I find it unlikely it

was meant as sarcasm at all especially given, too, your inability to understand facts no matter how often they are presented to you.

Edited to provide more clarity.

[backscatter712]

108. OH MY GOD, A BLACK PERSON IS ON THE PREMISES!!!

Better get out the taser - there's an uppity minority on the loose!

[bertrussell]

118. Quite frankly, the cops acted unprofessionally

"All you know is that someone has broken into a home."

No. All you know is that a call was made about what was perceived to be a break-in. It's your job, what you get paid for, to investigate with professionalism and due regard for human rights and safety. The man presents identification proving that it is his residence, making clear that there's been a misunderstanding. He is exasperated by the accusation. He is angry. That's not a crime. You have been trained to maintain control of your emotions and clarity of thought, even when spoken to in a way that you personally find disrespectful. You're a professional.

Do middle-aged sharply dressed burglars typically struggle with front doors in broad daylight? In other words, did the officer, based on his training and experience, really think he was looking at a home intruder?

[saltpoint]

120. The officer who arrested Prof. Gates after Gates showed his ID

has some explaining to do.

[yellowcanine]

124. I am white also and I think Obama was correct - the officer acted stupidly.

And I am basing that on the cop's version of events in the WP this morning. He talks about Gates getting loud, disrespectful, etc. I am sorry but police are supposed to be able to deal with people who are being loud and disrespectful in their own homes without arresting them. That is what community policing is all about. Nowhere is there even a hint that the officer thought that Gates was a threat to anybody - the officer, neighbors, or Gates himself. So why take him into custody? If he really felt that Gates was being disorderly, why couldn't he just have left? The only possible harm would have been that Gates might have busted up some stuff in his own house. I think the officer lost his temper and let it influence his judgment. It happens. Other officers there should have intervened (I assume there were other officers there).

[TexasObserver]

125. Unrecommend

[Bluerthanblue]

132. you've forgotten to take into account how

frightening it probably was for Prof.Gates and that fear is often disguised as anger. Sgt. Crowley had a gun, backup, a radio and the threat of arrest on his side. What did Prof. Gates have? His privacy was being invaded, his legitimacy questioned, yeah, he was enraged, and reacted strongly. But where was the 'threat' to Crowley? The 'threat' Prof. Gates used, was that he would contact people 'above' Crowley, that Crowley would 'regret' hassling him, that he would 'sue'. Did that require Crowley to arrest him? Was he threatening his life or safety or the lives of anyone else?

This is Crowley's JOB. He is trained to diffuse difficult situations and to resolve conflicts. He (supposedly) is an expert on Racial Profiling. That makes his actions in this incident ever more troubling in my opinion. It also makes his statement that he will "NEVER" apologize to Gates very depressing. If this is an example of his sensitivity and representative of his perspective as he 'trains' fellow officers about Racial Profiling, then I'm really suspicious of what real value his training would have.

I DO NOT fault the police for following up on the call about a possible break-in in progress. I DO fault them for allowing the situation to result in the handcuffing, arrest and detention of an innocent man, albeit an distraught and angry one.

I don't discount your opinion because you are white- I DO ask you to step outside your familiar comfort zone and try and see this from the side you have a hard time 'defending'. Like how you might feel REALLY being in Prof.Gates' place. "Yes-sa masta Crowley sir" might be the last thing you'd be able to muster after returning home after a long flight, having trouble getting into your home, and then having a cop give you grief.

peace~

[Aramchek]

133. the officer treated Gates like a suspect from the get-go

There was no call for an arrest.

He deserves to be publicly identified as the stupid man that he is.

[busymom]

135. Duh...of course he was a suspect initially...

The officer was responding to reports of a Break-in.

[Aramchek]

136. why wasn't he seen as a homeowner in potential danger initially?

easy, because he was black.