Wait, the Health Care Bill can't be 5000.00 per yr per person. That'll be 20,000 for family of 4...

[uponit7771]

..and with the average household in America making 63,000 GROSS with both parents working that'll be around a 3rd of that gross pre tax salary spent on the MINIMUM health insurance.

Current the average spent per year is 7900 for the overall and around 5000 for the middle class to cover a family of four.

People, we sure we're reading that bill right?

I top posted this question because the purpose of this whole exercise initiated by Obama was to LOWER the cost of health care overall in America and it looks like from some initial analysis the Kennedy bill does just the opposite in a drastic way


Any input would be appreciated...


Link to post I'm referring to...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8528296&mesg_id=8528553

[yourout]

1. If the health insurance companies come out in support of it we will know it is bad news.

The "trigger" for a single payer plan was pulled long ago.

[uponit7771]

4. Yeap, I'll wait until the say yeah or nay. I knew when Wally World came out in support..

...something was up

[babylonsister]

2. Pls. check out these links and don't panic...

the sky is NOT falling.


http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_treatment/archive/2009/07/14/breaking-house-bill-good-wish-it-could-happen-quicker.aspx
House Bill Looks Good So Far.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/07/the_house_releases_its_health-.html?hpid=news-col-blog
On first glance, it looks good.

And finally this:

http://webstar.postbulletin.com/agrinews/335397460497913.bsp
House's health care reform bill contains big changes
Tuesday, July 14, 2009
By Jean Caspers-Simmet
Agri News staff writer


OELWEIN, Iowa -- The U.S. House's draft bill for heath care reform creates shared responsibility among individuals, employers and government to provide all Americans with affordable coverage of essential health benefits, said U.S. Rep. Bruce Braley.

The bill would protect current coverage allowing individuals to keep the insurance they have if they like it and preserve choice of doctors, hospitals and health plans, Braley said during a town hall meeting in Oelwein last week.

It creates a Health Insurance Exchange, a system that allows private and public options to be available for employers and individuals to choose what health insurance options make the most sense for them, Braley said.

The Health Insurance Exchange sets and enforces insurance reforms and consumer protections and administers affordability credits to help low and middle-income individuals and families purchase insurance.

There is a public health insurance option which creates a new choice in many areas of the country which are dominated by just one or two private insurers today.

Insurance firms won't be able to engage in discriminatory practices that enable them to refuse to sell or renew policies today due to an individual's health status, Braley said. They can no longer exclude coverage for pre-existing conditions. The bill prohibits lifetime and annual limits on benefits, and it limits the ability of insurance companies to charge higher rates due to health status, gender or other factors. Premiums can vary based only on age, geography and family size.

Plans offered in the Health Insurance Exchange must provide essential services including hospitalization, outpatient services, physician services, prescription drugs, rehabilitation, mental health and substance abuse, and prevention and wellness programs. There must be dental, vision and hearing for children under 21. A basic plan must have 70 percent of the actuarial value of all these benefits.

The House draft bill provides sliding scale affordability credits to low- and moderate-income individuals and families. It caps annual out-of-pocket spending to prevent bankruptcies from medical expenses, Braley said. Individuals and families with incomes below 133 percent of the federal poverty level will be eligible for an expanded and improved Medicaid program, and the expansion will be federally financed.

Senior citizens and people with disabilities will benefit from provisions that fill "the doughnut hole" over time in the Medicare Part D drug program, eliminate cost-sharing for preventive services, improve the low-income subsidy programs in Medicare, fix physician payments and make other program improvements.

Braley has worked on legislation to make sure resources exist to assist senior citizens as they age, keep them healthy and allow them to stay in their homes and communities.

The draft bill modernizes and improves Medicare, improves payment accuracy and eliminates overpayments, prevents waste, fraud and abuse, and simplifies administration.

The House draft bill includes Braley's "plain language" provision that requires insurance documents to be clear, concise, easy-to-read, and follow plain language principles.

[lumberjack_jeff]

3. My policy costs me - just me - $6600/year

My wife and kids are on other plans.

I find it easy to believe that my family of four's coverage would cost $20k.

[uponit7771]

5. Again, the avg 2 wage household makes 63...people right now don't spend that much

...on insurance alone

[lumberjack_jeff]

6. The US spends 16% of its GDP, or $5800/year per capita on health care.

With all due respect, people right now *do* spend that much, they simply don't realize it.

[harun]

8. Agree, employer usually picks up much of the tab but it is costing that much now.

[CreekDog]

25. What kind of argument is that??? Most people with coverage don't pay for all of it

Their employers do.

If they pay for all their coverage themselves, if they can even pass underwriting, a family might well pay 20k per year or more for coverage.

Blogger Kevin Drum mentioned that he pays for his own health insurance and I believe for him and his wife, the cost was at least 10k per year --and not great coverage either.

I just think you have not taken care to make valid arguments here and your premises are all messed up and that's furthering the confusion.

[KansasVoter]

7. Isn't it limited to $10,000 per family?

[lindisfarne]

9. A pointer: read a good summary of the HELP bill and search for the part on "Subsidies". Pay

particular attention for what the proposed income limit is for subsidies is.

[lumberjack_jeff]

10. Going from memory, the median family would have a cap of less than 10%.

That's the house bill.

People making slightly too much to qualify for medicaid (roughly $30k for a family of 4) would have to pay no more than 1% of their income. This subsidy goes down as income rises. A family making $80k won't pay more than 10%. At $88,000, the subsidy goes away.

[flpoljunkie]

11. Affordability and Subsidies:

The House bill* has subsidies up to 400 percent of poverty, which is equal to $43,320 for an individual and $88,200 for a family of four. At the bottom end -- 133 percent if income, as below that, you're eligible for Medicaid -- the subsidies limit your health premiums to 1.5 percent of income. At the top end -- 400 percent -- it's no more than 11 percent of income. Speaking of the out-of-pocket cap, all of the benefit packages -- from the "basic" plan on upward -- cap total costs for members. So if you're not eligible for subsidies, you're still going to be protected from catastrophic health-care costs.

* http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-AFFORDABILITY-071409.pdf

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/07/the_house_releases_its_health-.html

[NancyG]

12. Husband and I pay $16k/yr for high deductible Blue Shield PPO

$45/visit copay. We need the public option before 2013.

[flpoljunkie]

13. Schumer has said he wants public plan available on first day to everybody and be national in scope.

(I wonder how his requirements compare with the HELP bill just passed out of committee. Schumer is on Baucus' Finance Committee. The House bill public option does not start until 2013.)

Look, I’ve said to Chuck Grassley and to Kent Conrad and Chairman Baucus, if— I don’t care what you call it, but whatever we have that has to compete against the private insurance companies, and, of course, I prefer a public option, but these are the minimum requirements:

First it has to be available on the first day to everybody. Second, it has to be— so there shouldn’t be a trigger, two years later, maybe we’ll have one.

Second, it has to be national. You know, I know there are co-ops in Iowa. There are even co-ops in New York. I live in one. I live in an apartment building that’s a co-op, so I’m a co-operator. But to just have one little co-op, say in Ogdensburg, New York, and say New York is covered, when 99 percent of the people have nothing, that’s no good.

Third, it has to be transparent. In other words, we want to know— the public option, the advantage is, when it makes a deal with the drug companies or big hospital association, we’ll know what it says and it will keep the insurance companies honest. They don’t make their deals public. And they— since there’s no competition, they jack up prices. And it has to have the clout to go against the big boys. Now if we could get those four things, we could do it.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/6/750401/-Schumer:-Make-no-mistake-.-.-.-there-will-be-a-public-option

[SpartanDem]

14. Anyone have the actual subsidy breakdown?

[bobble1]

15. Health insurance

I am a small employer. My health insurance, BCBS group plan, covers me and two employees. Cost? $ 1800.00 per month or $ 21,600.00 per year, for an
average of $ 7,200.00 per person. Still have to make co pays and meet a healthy deductible every year ($1000.00). There has to be a better more affordable solution.

[lumberjack_jeff]

16. Welcome to DU.

:hi:

[LiberalAndProud]

17. And as you and your employees age, your costs increase.

Add the standard 15% automatic annual increase to the built in actuarial increase, and soon, insurance makes itself far out of reach. Even after you've opted for a plan that will cover catostrophic illness, but pay little to nothing for wellness care. Insurance companies only want to sell health insurance to those who are not likely use it.

[LiberalAndProud]

18. I believe it's capped at $10,000 per yr per family.

I could be wrong.

[mtnester]

24. Like that is affordable

10,000.00

10,000.00 annually

10% of my family's gross income, more than my house payment

10,000 is still completely unrealistic. Completely, for effing insurance.

This is our only shot to get it right, if we suck up a bad plan, we will live, AND DIE, by that plan, literally.

[Born_A_Truman]

19. It will depend on what is subject to co-pay and/or deductible.

We have a BS PPO and doctor visits are subject to co-pay but not deductible. Same with lab tests. So I'd like to see the details first. IF the deductible applies before ANY coverage kicks in that is different than if only certain things (such as surgery) are subject to the deductible.

[uponit7771]

20. It'd be nice to have a breakdown chart relative to income...

[PretzelWarrior]

21. are you factoring in what the employer currently pays?

Are you factoring in the amount of people who will now be covered and the requisite savings of costs we can expect to see when those people receive early treatment and don't resort to E.R. for care?

[uponit7771]

22. No, I first thought that 5k was a bottom line number but it's not looking that way...

...either way it'd be nice to have a break down on income

[DuaneBidoux]

23. The healthcare problem is not, and has never been, that people are not covered.

The real problem is the outrageous cost of the healthcare we get in this country. My x-wife just had outpatient shoulder surgery for a bone spur. She was in the clinic a total of 3.5 hours and the actual procedure took 25 minutes. She just got her bill and it was $22,000.

If we simply spent what other industrialized countries spent for healthcare per American we could divert the savings and easily pay for the uncovered patients and have plenty left over for new programs, building schools, or for those inclined, tax cuts.

Our system in bureaucratic, marketing heavy and extremely inneffienct.

If we don't solve these problems this healthcare bill (or anything else short of single payer) will bankrupt our country.

[SpartanDem]

26. I think it's been figured out

the 5,000 is your maximum cost-sharing(co pays/deductible) as an individual if don't qualify for subsides. Premiums are capped based on income from 1.5% to 11%