Obama critics: Reference posts from January or thereabouts if you want perspective

[Fire Walk With Me]

on how far we've come/hard he's worked since then.

Give the man a break; the nation was put on a course of destruction for the benefit of a few disaster capitalists, and he's managed to pull us out of a nose-dive. A LOT has to be changed but consider the amount that he's done so far, and its long-reaching effects.

This, and I'm a Kucinich man :) :hi: Cheers!

[atreides1]

1. How far have we come?

[Fire Walk With Me]

7. Out of genuine economic disaster, out of true fear of the government itself

and all of the covert plans it had against us, known and still unknown (CIA cabal discovered this week, for example), the end of torture (and getting back to the Geneva Convention), other nations breathing a sigh of relief and even if they do not respect us immediately, they know that we are once again on the right track, restructuring of banks/lending/bonuses, warnings to those who are malfeasant, which will follow up with action if they don't do the right thing...

Much indeed remains to be done, but please consider that he's one man with some aids against decades of corporate infiltration, government corruption, and a self-starting Military-Industrial Complex (read: Halliburton is paid to blow up a country, then is paid to start rebuilding it, sometimes blowing it up again, all just for the sake of moving taxpayer dollars into private pockets...)

Keep your hope, always with adequate discrimination. Things ARE getting better.

[zipplewrath]

10. Dunno if you noticed

Prisoners are still at Gitmo and they are still advocating indefinite detentions without trial. Torture had already stopped. You don't know what programs at the CIA have stopped and haven't stopped. Obama has shown a tendency to only moderate previous programs, not end them or reverse them. Things are getting "better", but they are not repaired yet.

[Fire Walk With Me]

14. Okay, how about this: Obama can actually complete a sentence

and his other sentences actually refer to each other in a meaningful manner, resulting in a coherent message. This alone is cause for gratitude!

Cheers!

[zipplewrath]

15. Sorry, I expected more

It's nice, but it is not a counter balance to being out of Iraq or ending DADT, or EFCA.....

[Fire Walk With Me]

16. Perhaps you should try another web site?

;)

[zipplewrath]

18. I'm still curious.

You started this thread indicating we should be happy with his accomplishments to date, yet even in #12 you don't actually list anything except some allusions to things he has done as badly as Bush. Exactly what are his personal accomplishments for which we should be so thankful?

[Fire Walk With Me]

19. This is my last post as you somehow miss my repeated facts...

..strangely ;)

"Great Depression Part 2 Avoided". Please consider that a while, in deep meditation. Thank you for supporting our only hope against a world-wide cabal of disaster capitalists! :hi:

[zipplewrath]

20. How?

I mean really, what did the Obama administration do, specifically, that achieved this outcome? The whole TARP business preceded him. He basically just continued the same "throw money at them" process. He didn't stop the bonuses. He "bought" GM. Not a single bank was allowed to "fail". His "stress test" did little to change anything. It wasn't all that different from his predecessor. The stimulus package MAY help in the future. Nobel prize winning economists aren't as optimistic. So exactly what is it he did that you find such a meritorious accomplishment as oppose to his predecessor on this issue?

[zipplewrath]

2. Such as?

We're still in Iraq, we're still in Afghanistan. We're still bailing out banks. We're in control of GM. DADT is still being enforced and defended in court with our tax dollars. Single payer is "off the table". Obama declared he had "the backs" of the people who tortured over at CIA. The torture had already been stopped, and the legal memos withdrawn. Please, we've retired the "hard work" phrase with this presidency.

So exactly what are these tremendous accomplishments to which you would like to point? Stem Cells? Iran? Korea? Marginal benefits for same sex partners? Some good speaches over seas? And how about EFCA? How about his transparency pledge? Cap and Trade? Where are we on modifying NAFTA?

[JuniperLea]

4. What do you feel is a fair time table for all those accomplishments?

I'm curious to know your thoughts.

[zipplewrath]

6. All or some?

Mind you, the question remains unanswered exactly what we are suppose to be so pleased about. However, to answer your question anyway, many of those are ones in which the administration has already abandoned any sort of progressive position. We're in Afghanistan and we're going to stay. Iraq is a good year or more away, just as Bush was planning. Obama has already told the torturers that he "has their backs" so that's done. He's already defended DADT with our tax payer money. He's already expelled 260+ people from the military. EFCA is already abandonded. These aren't things for which we are "waiting" they are things he'd done. The list of things he hasn't done is long.

[Fire Walk With Me]

9. At least the American people actually elected him.

You must admit, that's a pleasant change ;)

[zipplewrath]

11. Now, to your original point.

What are the things you would like to point in the last 6 months that he has accomplished that should be so encouraging?

[Fire Walk With Me]

13. See my post #12 for a hint

but suffice to say, we would be in another Great Depression without what he's already done.

This isn't good enough? :shrug: Peace..

[JuniperLea]

3. His early speeches are a good thing to review as well...

He's on plan. This bullshit about the stimulus taking longer than planned is bullshit... he said at least two years. The list of good is growing. Now is not the time to lose sight of the mess he was left.

[Fire Walk With Me]

5. Exactly. We're lucky to have an economy at all; imagine if McCain were now in office.

You can bet that billions more would have been immediately tossed into the invasions. That, and a nuke or two.

[zipplewrath]

8. No

I'm not McCain supporter by any stretch, and I can imagine how worse it could be, but that really wasn't his plan. It wasn't all that different that what Obama has actually done so far. More hostile towards Iran I'm sure, and probably more vocal support after the elections that would have just screwed up everything. But he wouldn't be moving all that different on Afghanistan, or really even Pakistan (and maybe have been more cautious with them). There would have been no speech in Egypt and no pushing of Israel like Obama has.

Economically, there would be differences, but not as great as you might imagine. Bush was rescuing banks, Obama rescued banks, McCain would have as well. He probably doesn't do much for GM. His stimulus would have less spending, more tax cuts, and more of the spending would have been defense related. SCHIP may or may not get passed.

[Fire Walk With Me]

12. I am of course not implying that anyone here is a McCain supporter...

..but please read "The Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Watts, which coins the phrase "Disaster Capitalism", as seen in the wake of 9/11 into Iraq (through sheer lies, remember?). Obama isn't a liar like that, isn't an opportunist like that, isn't beholden to OPEC or corporations (Halliburton...mmm, memories...), likely isn't going to invade any sovereign nations to regulate supply and demand for his family OPEC buddies, let a town like New Orleans drown (and play guitar while it happens), ended torture, is doing much for international relations and peace...

Bush laughed at our faces as he stole trillions from the Treasury, in order to tip the country into a depression (this was recently called the worst recession since the great depression, and would have gotten far worse without Obama's measures, most definitely...)

Do you fear your government at this moment? I no longer do (although I of course fear the rogue intelligence elements currently being weeded out). I also wish for the utter removal of the "Patriot Act" (another "FUCK YOU" from BushCo), and eagerly await this event.

Things are better. They, by the nature of the economic, social, and international damage done by Bush and his Machievellians, cannot be made wonderful now, or likely for years to come. We're lucky to be where we are right now, and to know that more good things are possible. McCain and Palin would most definitely have used nukes (Palin, because of her Apocalyptic religious views). That scared the shit out of me. For this alone, we're in a better place!!

[zipplewrath]

17. Yes

"Do you fear your government at this moment? "

I generally always do. The current president still claims the authority to detain ANYONE he deems a threat for unspecified durations without trial. That is frightening. He plans on staying in Afghanistan until...... He defends the torturers. He asserted the authority to restart the torture programs. Gitmo is still there and operating. We're still in Iraq. He is still bailing out the banks. He has shown no indication of rolling back anything from the Patriot Act. He has indicated he will do nothing on NAFTA. He has given up on EFCA. And McCain would have never gotten around to using nukes.

[Cha]

21. Thank you, FWWM..

I appreciate what you're trying to do.