Landrieu, Ben Nelson tell Reid 'neener neener' on Cloture

[Joanne98]

Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 09:02:49 AM PDT

I guess it's not a huge shock, but the two biggest conservadems in the Senate aren't all that happy with Reid telling them that they're expected to vote for cloture on all Democratic bills, whether they're in favor of them or not.

FleetAdmiralJ's diary :: :: From Talking Points Memos:

Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NE) told Roll Call "I'm not a closed mind on cloture, but if it's an abuse of procedure, if it's somebody trying to put a poison pill into a bill, or if it's something that would be pre-emptive of Nebraska law, or something that rises to extraordinary circumstances, then I've always reserved the right to vote against cloture."

I'm not so sure what Nelson means by "pre-emptive of Nebraska law" but I guess the above is not all too unreasonable a basis for voting against cloture...assuming that "extraordinary circumstances" is truly "extraordinary circumstances" and not "I don't like this bill." Perhaps someone should ask Senator Nelson if having a public option meets his so-called "extraordinary circumstances" or any of this other reasons for refusing to vote to invoke cloture, and if so, why.

Meanwhile, Senator Landrieu is even more defiant, not even giving out reasons why she might still vote against cloture:

"I'm going to keep an open mind, but I am not committing to any procedural straitjackets one way or another," she said.

So it's basically "I'll vote however the hell I want, so buzz off." Perhaps someone will need to press the point to Senator Landrieu a bit harder that, you know, you can still vote against the damn bill even if you vote to invoke cloture.

Senator Reid, on the other hand, appears to be confident that he can pull the entire caucus of 60 together to vote for cloture on major bills:

"On procedural votes," he predicted, "we'll keep Democrats together."

Clearly it seems like Senators Ben Nelson and Landrieu are going to be his biggest troublemakers in actually getting 60 votes on cloture, and hopefully he's willing to go to the mat with his own caucus members if necessary to get to 60 votes.

Update

Elise points to an article below where Nelson apparently said that he is definitely open to voting for cloture, at least on health care reform:

Senator Ben Nelson, one of the key figures in the health care reform fight, has told a local official in his state that he could support cloture on a public plan for insurance coverage even if he opposed the bill itself.

...

And yet, even if Nelson were to oppose the final bill, his vote may not hold as much significance as expected. According to Pettigrew, the senator said he will not be the 60th Senator to sustain a filibuster on a bill that he ultimately would oppose. "If it comes to cloture I would vote for it," Nelson said, according to Pettigrew. "I will not be the deciding vote."

Asked for clarification, the senator's office offered a somewhat watered-down but largely concurring statement.

"Regarding cloture, the Senator's position is that he may support cloture even if he doesn't support some provisions of the underlying bill," said Jake Thompson, a spokesman for Nelson. "It is impossible to know how he will vote until he sees an actual bill, but it is correct to assume that he may support cloture even if he doesn't agree with some of the provisions of the bill."

If this is still his position, that would at least appear to be a good sign, at least on the health care bill, for Nelson.

Update 2

On the flip side, however, Evan Bayh apparently appears to be the worst offender of all:

Evan Bayh , a moderate from Indiana, said he would not be inclined to vote to cut off a filibuster on a bill if he opposed the substance of the underlying measure, and he predicted his colleagues would feel the same way.

"Most senators aren’t sheep," he said. "They don’t just go blindly along without thinking about things, and I don’t think we want them to do that."

Moderate? Moderates tend not to procedurally block their own party's agenda, even if they oppose a specific measure.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/7/8/751235/-Landrieu,-Ben-Nelson-tell-Reid-neener-neener-on-Cloture

[napi21]

1. Get Biden to talk to them. He was in the Senate a LONG TIME

and I'm sure if there's a way to persuade them, he knows it

[DJ13]

2. .... and if that doesnt work blackmail will

(just kidding)

[napi21]

5. I didn't put any parameters on Joe. I said he knows what works!

Bribery, threats, bmail...whatever.

[Arkana]

16. Or he could ask Rahm to mail them a few dead fish.

[Moochy]

26. Yeah let's start forcing some party unity

on these poll-watching weak-kneed moderates... More stick less carrot.

[DonCoquixote]

3. Harry, it goes like this

Sooner or later, the DINOs are going to become extinct. The only reason they are breathing at all is because Obama is being too cautious, not wanting to give them the coup de grace. However, as things get tense, the people will realize they need to do more than just blame or worship O. Indeed, the America public is FINALLY understanding that the Legislative branch is the branch that sets the agenda, per constitutional design.

What does that mean in real terms?

It means, Harry my boy, you get to choose between being the butcher and being the burger. Most of us do not have this choice, and if you fail to use yours, we will make you sure go down with us!

[Jennicut]

27. I have been arguing this for a few days now...Congress is the real problem, especially the Senate

[MadAsHell]

4. Seems to me, then, we should play this game to it's obvious conclusions

Strip them of their committee chair positions.

If having the Dems in power means nothing to them, then having no power over the direction of the committees should mean nothing to them either.

[grantcart]

6. Actually its very good news about Nelson - he will vote for cloture

Landrieu - does she really have the spine to go by herself?

Bayh - who can tell if he is staking out a position or just preening.


I think your headline mistates Nelsons updated position - unless I am missing something.

[OHdem10]

7. Something has to be done about EarMarks. This is one way

Landrieu keeps her seat and tells the Party to go to hell.

She gets earmarks(money money, honey) for her state. You know
how that works. Everytime some project starts , her picture
and article on how she brings home the bacon. This is the
scret weapon of centrists.

Example: Today, Senator Finegold pointed out 60% of funds go
10 states. That leaves 40% to be divided up among FORTY States.

There has to be a better way.

[Hippo_Tron]

11. Her seat would otherwise go to a Republican

[OHdem10]

13. I am not so sure of that if a good Democrat ran against her.

We permit these Red States hold this hammer over our head and
have frustration and loss in our party.

[Hippo_Tron]

15. I'm from Louisiana and I assure you that's not the case

There is no "good Democrat" that could possibly run to the left of her and win here. No chance whatsoever. Landrieu has to deliver serious money to the state in order to survive with a D next to her name. Vitter gets caught wearing diapers with prostitutes and he still will have an easier time being re-elected than she did because he is a Republican. That is how bad this state is.

[Egnever]

8. They should vote however the hell they want

Assuming that is representative of their constituents. Lockstep party line voting is ugly and I would argue harmful to our democracy.

[Hippo_Tron]

10. Louisiana and Nebraska shouldn't be allowed to block legislation that the vast majority supports

Mary Landrieu is my Senator, btw, and I recognize she's in a tight spot.

[Egnever]

14. I agree with that in theory

However if the vast majority support it then there is no way two states could block it. Voting in lockstep allowed a lot of evil stuff to get passed under the republican rule of the past decade.

[kenny blankenship]

29. They can vote however they want, BLOCKING a vote along with the Republicans is UNACCEPTABLE

[BlooInBloo]

9. This is the 2nd leadershippy thing I've heard about Reid in 2 days. What gives?

[Cha]

17. Maybe he doesn't mind working

WITH President Obama?

[Arkana]

18. He held a seance and channeled the spirit of LBJ?

[Marsala]

21. Getting the 60th Dem has made him go mad with power!

Relatively speaking, of course.

[JamesA1102]

12. Take away their committee chairmanships

if they don't fall in line. Then have the DNC cut off all their funding for re-election. Time to play hardball with these people. They don't have to vote for the final bill if they don't agree with it but don't enable the GOP's obstruction.

[Inuca]

19. In the interest of realism

"Take away their chairmanships" - I don't think they have any. Probably some subcommittee, I think everyone one does, but no full committee, too junior both of them.

"Have the DNC cut off funding" - short of a miracle or close, it would mean the seats will go republican.

By the way, I cannot stand either. In addition to being so unreliable, I don't think Landrieu is that smart; Nelson probably is in his own way, but he reminds me of a used car salesman (the nasty archetype, no offense intended to any real ones out there)

[Dr Fate]

22. Have the DNC offer them MORE funding if they play ball.

I'm told the reason why they have to vote against DEMS is due to "all those ads the Health industry would run against them."

In that case, offer them more funds.

Maybe we are defining "realism" as things that have worked or have been done before- but trying a new approach can be in the realm of realism too...

Subcommitte? Pull it. Parking space in the capital parking lot? Revoke it. Big Office? Change of plans-how about this nice broom closet over here?

Even in the interest of realism, I think Reid could find a way to "twist their arms" if he has the will to do it.

This is just me talking, but DEMS need to focus on WAYS to make this happen instead of helping them with their excuses...

[Inuca]

24. I agree with the basic idea

that Reid and company should find ways to bring them closer to the fold. Carrots (more funds) may work better than sticks. All I was saying was that it is not that simple.

[Joanne98]

20. Take away her chair on homeland security!

[Dr Fate]

23. Take away her parking space. Put her in a teeny-tiny office. Whatever it takes.

Don't let her sit with "the cool kids" in the Senate cafeteria- LOL! Whatever works.

I don't need excuses- I need WAYS to make her do the right thing.

Whatever that is-DO IT Harry!!!

[JVS]

25. Investigate their lives for an affair or shady business deal and then blackmail the shit out of them

[kenny blankenship]

28. Seems like Louisiana and Nebraska need new Senators who can work with the Dem majority

[Jennicut]

30. There is a not a lot we can do with them.

We cut off funding a Rethug will win. Its almost like blackmail but its Louisiana and Nebraska so...maybe we have the best we can get.
And is Reid actually finding a backbone? Did Al Franken slip him so new personality drugs when he got sworn in the other day?