Is Obama's Powerstick Showing?

[tomm2thumbs]

Today's LA Times has a Poll regarding resident's views on same-sex marriage and the results are summarized below.

Is President Obama's lack of support for same sex marriage being mirrored by voters? Is it something else - cultural, regional, religious ? Wondering what kind of 'Presidential outreach' might be beneficial if his views are truly being reflected by his supporters. This poll just came out today.

[bluestateguy]

1. People don't want to talk about the racial disparity in attitudes here

It's like you are denoucned as racist if you do. But the fact of the matter is that this is one of the few issues where white people have more progressive attitudes than black and Hispanic people.

[Sick_of_Rethuggery]

7. Um, you think education and/or lack of

educational opportunities might have something to do with it?

[bluestateguy]

8. Perhaps

But nor do I think that would be the only factor.

[grantcart]

48. no its church related

[HughMoran]

54. ...and the rest is cultural

[MADem]

10. The fiction that all cultures think the same way is a "We are the world" fantasy.

I've lived in enough different cultures to know that.

[angee_is_mad]

13. and what is the Gay community going to do about it?

ummmm?

[donco6]

34. Do about what? n/t

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[angee_is_mad]

41. Appreciate that

Thank you so very much. BTW, noticed that I have been a member of DU longer than you have.

[tranche]

30. Those numbers look fantastic for whites!

Except that's not how the vote broke down for prop 8.

http://www.gaylesbiantimes.com/?id=13832
http://www.thetaskforce.org/downloads/issues/egan_sherrill_prop8_1_6_09.pdf

I think the one thing that should be talked about regarding race, is that it's a wonderful thing to split the progressives over. That would be my main contribution to the conversation. And I'm not calling your racist.

[Clio the Leo]

36. I cant speak for the whole board....

... but I think the premise is true, MY problem is that I dont like the notion of blaming African Americans for prop 8 passing.

If African Americans couldn't win CA for Obama in the primaries, then why were they able to get Prop 8 passed?

The numbers just dont jive.

[MadMaddie]

60. Well see now you are talking facts!

These polls can be read a number of different ways. The way the paper decides to present them....well...

Don't get me wrong I think a multitude of different groups are responsible for Prop8 passing.

[Political Tiger]

2. Latino is NOT a race. Ricky and Lucy were NOT an interracial couple!

n/t

[Bucky]

5. Yes and no.

Race is a such an arbitrary, nonscientific concept that it essentially means whatever people want it to mean. While legal authorities don't recognize Latinos as a race (for entirely historical and racist reasons), the general public does consider and treat Hispanic as a distinct racial group. When you ask Latinos "Are you white?" the overwhelming majority will say no--particularly those under the age of 40. If you ask someone with five white great-grandparents and three black great-grandparents "Are you white?" you're also most likely to get a negative response.

[tomm2thumbs]

3. I would have thought the 'Over 64' difference would have been much greater

It does make one wonder about what issues are at play.

[CTyankee]

4. As an over 64 woman, I believe that segment of the poll is because of women.

I think the women in that category are key, but of course I can't prove it without seeing a breakdown by gender...just my gut feeling about the issue and my experience with the men I know in that age group (my husband excluded).

[tomm2thumbs]

14. that is a good point - and perhaps most likely to sit and answer a poll

sometimes I wonder about polls just because of the 'I don't have the patience' factor of people who ever put their 2 cents in.

Which might be a good thing on some level.

[CTyankee]

45. No, I didn't mean that. I meant that my sense is that women might be more accepting, men less so.

But again, with no data to back up my assertion it must remain only my opinion...

[tomm2thumbs]

63. it seems a reasonable possibility and I believe everything folks post is their opinion so

it is as valid as any other point made on these boards. If we all thought we were actually right, we wouldn't put our ideas out for the opportunity for being questioned - we would just run around 'being right' in our heads and be quite satisfied with ourselves. Putting a question out there is a chance to hear other answers which is good.

[Bucky]

6. The subject line is VERY misleading. I expected a photo with Obama's barndoor open.

In this context, I don't really know (and probably don't want to know) what "Is Obama's Powerstick Showing?" means.

You should have said something like "Surveys show African-Americans most likely to oppose same sex marriage. Is this Obama's influence?"

Of course, then you don't get to write the word powerstick.

[tomm2thumbs]

15. okay, I feel bad so I got you pictures...

During the Question and Answer session, Obama met a 95-year-old African American man, whose daughter told Obama that he had waited his whole life for this moment. The man wobbled slowly to the stage and presented Obama with a maple wood walking stick as a gift. The presumptive democratic nominee, clearly feeling his oats, took the stick and said,

"If members of Congress don't pass my health care bill - I'll whoop 'em, I'll whoop 'em. That's right, you better not mess with me, and I'll have that stick."


* some irony on that - guess he isn't using it on Congress right now either

[Bucky]

43. Okay, now THAT is awesome! Yes, the president needs to whip out THAT power stick

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BXiLAmoEpMI/SPkuyuJN45I/AAAAAAAACNA/rhT5sQZ4AMo/s320/Tim_Drake+002.jpg Something like this, but maybe with the president in a different outfit

 

[tomm2thumbs]

67. Just change the 'R' to an 'B' and you're halfway there

'Barackman and Biden' - naw, just doesn't have the ring I expected

[Kaleva]

18. Next thread: Are Sarah Palin's headlights burnt out?

[Phx_Dem]

38. lol. Me too.

I think the soft support has more to do with religion than anything else.

[MADem]

9. What is a "powerstick????"

That third graphic explains the brutal reality of the Kirbyjon Caldwell/Donnie McClurkin Gospel Tour I was objecting to back in the primaries (and I got a lot of poohpoohing about, too). That's pretty stark, isn't it?

[tomm2thumbs]

12. re: powerstick

It refers to the thing an individual has some significant, special control over.

In this case, I think we do know that Obama has significant influence over African Americans who admire his achievements, skills, talents, smarts, etc, as no doubt we all do. In this group, he could exert a great deal of influence over how views are seen reflected - so why does he choose not to use it and make this same sex marriage issue a thing of the past. My view is - in fact, perhaps the results of the poll show that he is wielding it. He has a powerstick over them. He says 'no to same sex marriage' and it may be reflected in those poll numbers.

The point being, while a lot of people say that Obama is simply giving 'a wink and a nod' when he says 'I don't believe in Same Sex Marriage', he in fact continues to say it, show it and exude that in the powerstick he wields over the African American community.

I think the youth and many of us thought he is 'just saying that' too, but perhaps his base hasn't gotten the memo - or he really isn't just saying it and it generates much more influence with those that follow that powerstick. Which is sad when he claims that the youth are way ahead of the curve on this issue but he chooses to sit in the slow lane instead of catching up.

[MADem]

20. Thank you so much for that explanation. I was.... flummoxed!

I couldn't begin to imagine what it was, frankly! I was waiting for the inevitable "No Sex Threads!" post!!!!

Interesting thesis. I was one of those who said "He means it," back when that Gospel Tour lit off. And I did get scolded for that view!

I also think, though, that he's politically astute enough to realize that when change comes (and it may, like it, or not, take a bit of time for that to happen), he won't protest or try to block it, and in the end, he'll take credit for it. That's not a slam, that's just fact. People forget that preservation of the union was Lincoln's primary goal, and emancipation was a happy secondary effect. Yet what do people remember Lincoln for?

[pot luck]

47. That's ridiculous.

Obama has no more influence over me than Bush has over you. Just because we share the same skin color doesn't mean I, and other AA, brainlessly follow everything he does or says. This type of thinking is no different than that of Republicans who claim that blacks vote en masse for Dems because we are too stupid to think for ourselves. I'm black AND I support equal rights for LGBT. Obama views on this issue has not swayed mine.

[HughMoran]

55. ...and you don't have to know much about the history of this to know it's BS what he's saying

Blacks haven't supported gay marriage for an awful lot longer than Obama has been president.

His premise is stupid and actually somewhat bigoted IMO.

[Number23]

58. Nail on the head

Just because we share the same skin color doesn't mean I, and other AA, brainlessly follow everything he does or says.

It's pointless to try to convince anyone who truly believes that otherwise.

By the way, we'd love for you to come hang out with us in AAIG! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=258

:hi:

[AsahinaKimi]

59. Wow...

So if you then have a

Powerstick

Am correct in assuming you don't need this too?

[MarjorieG]

11. Religion, or gospel according to pastors, are key, as are island communities, catholic immigrants.

A learning curve not there yet. Here is where Obama doesn't think some social issues should be forced in a federal way. Not to mention discomfort among key voting groups just recently Dem. Great that states are getting there.

That's why he prefers promoting civil unions and liberties, opening up as many rights as can be done that way, relieve the sufffering where he can, thereby changing attitudes. A toss-up for many where the best strategy, except for couples who want bolder, rightfully.

I'm sure the admin. will be more proactive after health care, and maybe climate change legislation responsible for more jobs, for DOMA, DADT and Baldwin's legislation.

[Life Long Dem]

16. What are you talking about?

Are you saying President Obama is on his on on this one and could care less what the people say? Because all I ever hear Obama say is he is working for us. So I don't understand this go it alone Obama scream I'm hearing when Obama is not a go it alone man. That's because President Obama work's for us, and you can ask him and he will tell you himself. So if you speak to anyone - having a heart in this - it would need to be the people and not one man's decision or heart in deciding how millions should live.

Why or how do you think one man decides - through his heart - for millions of people? It's the people and you are going way off track and reversing our freedom's to one man. Think about it?

Well I did. And this smells like the pink group who was just out divide the party. You people never give up.

[tomm2thumbs]

17. LOL at 'the pink group'

thanks for that

[CTLawGuy]

19. so black people hate gay marriage

and it's Obama's fault? Nope that's not racist at all. Not at all... Congratulations.

[tomm2thumbs]

22. hmmm.. scanning for those words...

Let's see, now where is that word 'hate'... hmm, can't seem to find it.

Well, lemme look for 'fault'... well, no. Don't see that either.

Sorry. Don't see 'em. I see some figures and poll results however.

Got anything else or are you done?

[CTLawGuy]

23. sometimes not all words show up on the scanner but they're there

you must have had no problem with Ronald Reagan's Philadelphia, MS "state's rights" speech.

[tomm2thumbs]

24. are you done now?

curious

[CTLawGuy]

25. yeah. I expressed my point

are you done with this poll? or is there going to be still another thread about it?

[tomm2thumbs]

26. Just thought it was interesting that you projected so much onto the thread

I can assure you by my choice of partner that I don't have the ilk you seem to attribute to me.

But a nice backrub is currently making me feel much better and less angry so not to worry.

[mkultra]

27. did you look for the word tacit?

because the purpose of your OP can be nothing other.

[tomm2thumbs]

28. thank you for telling me what my own purpose was

I will now tell you what your purpose in life is - oh, wait. tacit

[mkultra]

35. well, you do have two thumbs.

next time at least have the honesty to be open about your bigotry.

[CTLawGuy]

29. that's good

it's bad to be angry. And I'm sorry if I was inflammatory, I'm sure you are a good person.

but I just don't get what you are trying to do with this thread. Why point out a poll showing L.A. blacks oppose gay marriage? It's not even a useful statistic.

[tomm2thumbs]

31. we were discussing the poll over breakfast so I posted it

I think it is a reflection that some cultures say what they mean and mean what they say. But my culture hears only some of the words and then we project what we 'want' to hear on the rest. I am wondering if a good majority of folks who hear President Obama say 'I don't support gay marriage' believe he really means. (Like it was a political ploy to help with votes.) I thought that way but I have been schooled this morning on it. Basically - 'if he says it, why do you doubt it?'

So anyway, I was hoping he would be able to sway opinion onto those that support him who are against same sex marriage, but I was told this morning 'why would he try to exert something he doesn't believe in.' So there's the rub (literally). It is disappointing but I guess he believes that way and you can only get behind ideas you believe in, so he may really not want to get involved in this issue from his heart.

Just thought he was giving me a wink and a nod, is all.

[CTLawGuy]

32. I think he doesn't particularly favor it but won't stand in its way either.

That's the SOP for national Dems on gay marriage--don't push it but don't stand in its way either.

I don't agree with that--I am strongly for marriage equality and I wish Obama and all Dems would be too.

but be careful of dragging race into this, even if it's not intentional.


The key right now is to get a repeal of DOMA to his desk. He has said he will sign it. That means turning our sights on Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi--god knows they need it.

The states are progressing much faster than the federal government however and the states have more power in this respect. Once DOMA is out of the way, it will be smooth sailing to go state by state. (The federal government doesn't perform/recognize marriages per se, it's a state by state thing).

[tomm2thumbs]

33. regrets

my biggest regret is the way the vote went on Prop 8 -- given what happened to all the marriages done in San Francisco that were voided, we preferred to wait to marry so that it wouldn't be ripped away (deciding against jumping through that open window just before the election). All the talk of 'change' and the movement in the air, etc made it look like a no-brainer..... - and then to lose the chance entirely and look back and realize it was the window we could have jumped through can be quite frustrating.

It's not quite the feeling you get when 'you are in the slow line in the grocery store and watch as countless people continue to go past you in the other line - and you finally decide to jump to a new line and the new cashier leaves the line and you watch as your old place in line moves to the register...' but it's close. :) Gonna run - but wanted to 'splain.

Oh, and I have to confess I also posted the poll because I'm one of 'those pink ones' and it was very phallic. lol j/k

[HughMoran]

56. Sorry, your post #12 flushes out your bigotry quite nicely

You have stepped in it this time.

Step.

Away.

From.

The.

Computer.


:yoiks:

[Political Tiger]

21. You do realize this poll is only of Los Angeles and not a state or nationwide poll?

n/t

[asphalt.jungle]

39. Which shows how flawed the thinking of some on here is

The "white, non-Hispanics" that live in the city of Los Angeles are not reflective of whites in California as a whole anyway. Those that remain in LA will for the most part be pretty damn liberal (they didn't flee). 50% (and growing) of LA is Hispanic and only 11% are black (and that's decreasing rapidly every year). And compared to California as a whole, blacks are overrepresented in this poll because they only make up 6% of the state population (behind whites, Hispanics and Asians). And Asians make up 10% of LA, why weren't they polled? They are pretty much equal in representation to blacks so their opinions should matter.

[angee_is_mad]

42. Thank you

for posting this.

[Cali_Democrat]

44. Well said!!!!

nt

[Jennicut]

37. Interesting #'s. A slight majority favor it here in Connecticut where it is legal.

I don't get California. I still don't get why prop 8 passed there but maybe there are stark cultural differences. In the black and hispanic communities there is that macho influence and many men are frightened to be seen as less then manly then in the white community. That has been around for years. My best friend in college was a young black man named Tom and he talked to me many times about how the men where he grew up in the inner city treated women differently, looked at gays differently, etc. for this very reason. But Obama just came into this debate recently. It could be that he, like many African American men do not approve of gay marriage. I hope he does not stand in the way of progress and I do not think he will. But I also believe he will not be on the forefront of trying to change anything either. I don't thin we should blame certain racial groups but rather influence debate and try to change their minds.

[Beacool]

46. You're a little late.

I started this thread Friday night and got clobbered.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8485432

:eyes:

[JI7]

50. yours was better

this one is misleading. it's directly implying blacks aren't supporting same sex marriage because of Obama as if all black people follow Obama on everything.

and he doesn't mention that it's a poll of only Los Angeles .

you just posted the facts unlike this poster.

[Beacool]

52. I did and was called a racist for the effort.

I guess it's easier to make ad hominem attacks than to try to see where the activists should focus their efforts.

:eyes:

[Number23]

53. No, you were accused of throwing gasoline on the anti-Obama flames around here

No one called you a racist, Beacool. This time.

[Beacool]

57. This time?

:eyes:

[Lilith Velkor]

61. And this thread title sucks, too

Here I was thinking the President had pulled an LBJ at the press corps (which, let's face it, would have been FUCKING AWESOME) and it's just some cutesy goddamn marketing jargon, or some shit. Bleh!

[tomm2thumbs]

68. I checked it out and you are right

Perhaps it is leftover from what people have indicated was a massive onslaught of attack-posts after the passing of prop 8 initially. I am more of a video poster than discussion person so didn't know that was happening, but it could become a catalyst to jump on anything that sounds similiar - a defense mechanism. The thing I did notice is that a good number seemed to claim some innate ability to 'read between the lines' or 'see what isn't there, but really is there if you look close' and that sort of thing. That's called projecting and it's okay to do, but let's give it credit.

I think the failure of the poll is that there is not a simple follow-up question or two to make some sense of the answers (if that is possible). Like: 'what is the most important deciding factor in why you feel this way on this issue?' or 'on a scale from 0 to 100, what is the percent of feeling you have towards your point of view on this issue?' I expect it would help to differentiate the differences between the 'I'd druther it not be, but I could live with it' from the 'I'd leave the state if it ever came to pass' opinions and if people believe this way because of someone they know or simple tradition or religious views, etc. So I agree the poll comes across poorly.

A lot of people seemed to think that this extraordinary power that Obama has over American voters who support him is based on skin - that is ridiculous on its face. It is his smarts and his ability to sway and convey that makes him who he is and gives him his power to influence. This was the same for Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan and equally untrue for Bush (and Candidate Gore at times). But I do think Obama lacks the interest and will to try and influence any constituents who might be open to a smartly developed speech or doctrine on this subject and that seems a bit worrisome. When a simple stop-loss order would apparently help, even if just symbolically, he fails to do it. Does he even address it? When McCain was working on immigration issues and noted how 'illegal' people fought and died for this country and served equally to protect America, I was impressed. Has Obama done anything of the sort with this issue? Would he be willing to say 'this will not stand because it is not right according to our beliefs as a country, despite my personal beliefs from my religion'. I think not.

[Beacool]

70. Yes, I think that part of the reaction to my thread

was due to what occurred here when the issue was brought up in November. Interestingly, this recent poll in L.A. is not that dissimilar from exit polls done at the time in the state. Although, given the percentage of AA population in relation to whites, they were not to blame for the passing of Prop 8.

But it is blind not to see that there is some work that needs to be done by activists to reach out to the, particularly religious, black community. My intent was only to point that out, but was smacked down and yesterday on another post was openly called a racist until the moderators deleted the sub-thread.

As someone who lived most of my formative years overseas, I think that Holder was wrong. We are not a nation of cowards, we are a nation of hypocrites. Race relations can never be talked openly without some people trying to label others by one of the worst epithets that can be flung at another in this country: racist.

As for Obama, one of the reasons that I didn't support him in the primaries is that he struck me as someone without the courage to fight tooth and nail for us. By "us" I mean all Americans. I don't trust people who seem to have a soft commitment on issues. He seems to delegate too much to Congress and I wouldn't trust those critters as far as I could throw them. So no, he probably won't break a nail trying to go ut of his way for gays. But he's a superb politician and knows fully well that he'll need the gay vote in years to come. Therefore, sooner or later he'll get to DADT and DOMA.

[JI7]

49. you should note that this is only Los Angeles

[BlooInBloo]

51. If only the graphs were scaled to the proportion of the respective populations, eh?

Of course, if that were the case, these threads wouldn't get posted.

[boppers]

62. I thought this thread was a Lady GaGa reference.

Obama's "power stick", rather than a "disco stick".

[tomm2thumbs]

64. just as long as you are not discontented by it

that would be disconcerting

[boppers]

65. Ah, thread jumping humor!

Have some GaGa:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fDwRRZ7eUo

[tomm2thumbs]

66. I will bookmark that - had never heard that b4

was that a campari product placement I saw in there too?

[boppers]

69. She's very camp[ari]

Lots of recursive jokes about fame.

[tomm2thumbs]

71. for that, a punicillin shot is called for

immediately, or forthwith