We can NOT keep caving to the extreme religious right...the American Taliban so to speak.

[madfloridian]

There has been a lot of criticism here of those of us who caution about allowing those who make decisions based on religious views so much say in party policy.

I saw a sea-change in our neighbors and our community when it was decided to invade and occupy Iraq. When we spoke up to our Southern Baptist church when they preached about a holy war...they called us unpatriotic. They were hell-bent on that invasion.

We were nearly shunned by most neighbors when we started putting yard signs that were against the war. It got worse when we put signs for Democratic presidential candidates. A neighbor screamed at me in our own home when I told her Iraq had not done 9/11. She yelled that Bush was chosen by God and could not make mistakes.

They got their Iraq war, and now they are continuing the war on women's rights and gay rights.

To me the rights of women to make their own life choices, and the rights of gays to make their own life choices....are vital to our country. These rights are the target of the religious right. Yet 19 of the 25 on the faith-based council are anti-choice. I don't know the number who are anti gay rights, but it is probably similar in nature.

Allowing these views to take hold in our party is dangerous. Here are some words through the years from some of those who are not about to compromise on those issues.

The American Taliban

George HW Bush goes after atheists, the rest go after women's rights and gays.

George Bush Sr. (President of the United States)

"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

Laura Schlessinger: "I want to coin a phrase here, and I don't mind help. What would be the communication version of "ethnic cleansing?" Because that's what in particular the homosexual activists try to do."

Pat Buchanan (Presidential Candidate)
"Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free...."Rail as they will about 'discrimination,' women are simply not endowed by nature with the same measures of single-minded ambition and the will to succeed in the fiercely competitive world of Western capitalism."

Randall Terry (Operation Rescue)
"I don't think Christians should use birth control. You consummate your marriage as often as you like – and if you have babies, you have babies." "When I, or people like me, are running the country, you'd better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we'll execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed."*

Star Parker (Coalition on Urban Renewal & Education)
"Anybody that believes in separation of church and state needs to leave right now."

Kay O'Connor (Kansas Senate Republican)
"I'm an old-fashioned woman. Men should take care of women, and if men were taking care of women today, we wouldn't have to vote."

Joseph Scheidler (Pro-Life Action League)
"I would like to outlaw contraception...contraception is disgusting – people using each other for pleasure."*

There is a lot more at the link.

It is not comforting for a Democratic senator to come up with a bill to protect pregnant women that never mentions contraception, and has the support of Southern Baptists, Catholics, and Democrats for Life.

As a recovering Southern Baptist I keep up with this stuff. Too many of the leaders in that church are speaking out now about the use of contraception.

This pastor calls the use of birth control murder.

The Southern Baptist Convention is reacting after News 8 showed a message from a Southern Baptist preacher teaching Fort Worth seminary students that the birth control pill equals murder.

In a controversial sermon to students at the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Dr. Thomas White, acting as the student services vice president this month, preached that birth control is murder and called attempts at family planning selfish.

"Some of you are involved in that exact same sin," he said.

And another prominent SBC pastor almost agrees with him...as do others such as Al Mohler, who heads the Southern Baptist Seminary.

But, Land said he ultimately agrees with Dr. White on the subject of the birth control pill.

"The Southern Baptist Convention is not opposed to the use of birth control within marriage as long as the methods used do not cause the fertilized egg to abort and as long as the methods used do not bar having children altogether unless there's a medical reason the couple should not have children," he said.

Making women's decisions for them.

And Al Mohler says:

..."First, we must start with a rejection of the contraceptive mentality that sees pregnancy and children as impositions to be avoided rather than as gifts to be received, loved, and nurtured. This contraceptive mentality is an insidious attack upon God's glory in creation, and the Creator's gift of procreation to the married couple."

They are leaders of the Southern Baptist Church. They opposed birth control. Is birth control next on the agenda after abortion reduction and gay rights?

Feel free to convince me it is not next.

Under a Democratic congress in 2007 women in the military were refused the emergency contraception pill.

Emergency contraception, also known as Plan B or the morning-after pill, is available over-the-counter in all 50 states, but women in the U.S. military cannot count on accessing the medication on military bases. A 2003 survey financed by the Defense Department found that almost a third of military women reported being the victim of rape or attempted rape during their tenure in the military. Yet in return for their service, servicewomen are denied access to basic health care. “The situation is unconscionable,” says Vicki Saporta, president of the National Abortion Federation. “If you are a military woman in Iraq, and you are raped, it is this country’s obligation to make sure you have access to emergency contraception.”

I have said often this week that are party has apparently decided that women and gays are expendable right now. When I posted a progressive blogger and shared his heartbreak over the argument this week about DOMA...too many tried to reassure me that all was okay. When I posted about a bill being presented almost entirely by the religious people which includes making an abortion database...people get defensive.

We need to be on guard or the same forces that propelled Bush to power will take over our party.

It is not okay to have a strong Democratic majority and allow two groups to be marginized.

[madfloridian]

1. And I forgot that they increased funding for abstinence only training.

"The Democratic leadership of the House Appropriations Labor, Health and Human Service, and Education (LHHS) Sub-Committee set science and commonsense aside by increasing the funding for discredited abstinence-only-until-marriage programs. Despite a congressionally mandated report that found these programs do not work to help teens delay sexual initiation, House leadership allocated $141 million (an increase of $27.8 million) to continue feeding America's young people misinformation."

Yuba Net 2007

This will drop quickly or I will be told I don't know much about it. Either way I have had my say.

[katandmoon]

2. K&R! I think we are just totally screwed because Obama not only will not stand up to them, he gives

them cover.

[patrice]

3. Blaspheming Hypocrits want the BIGGEST government of all: defines your Gender and

your offspring, not to mention when it's okay to invade a sovereign nation and kill people who were no threat to us.

I am so completely sick of stupid hypocrits!!

Never Forget! and Never Give Up!!

[madfloridian]

15. Yes, they want government to control abortion, birth control, and sexual preference.

Yep, I would call that pretty hypocritical.

[QC]

4. You're not being very reachy outy. n/t

[madfloridian]

5. Nope. I am not.

:hi:

[madfloridian]

6. A couple of beauts from the American Taliban that I left out.

Beverly LaHaye (Concerned Women for America)

"Yes, religion and politics do mix. America is a nation based on biblical principles. Christian values dominate our government. The test of those values is the Bible. Politicians who do not use the bible to guide their public and private lives do not belong in office."

Gary North (Institute for Christian Economics)

"The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant–baptism and holy communion–must be denied citizenship."

"This is God's world, not Satan's. Christians are the lawful heirs, not non-Christians."

[hootinholler]

7. The Talibornagain. n/t

[madfloridian]

8. Oh, I also forgot the "sin" of being deliberately childless.

"“You look at some of these websites, and the references to children are just so dismissive and condescending and frankly weird.... We have to understand that parenthood is to be understood as a part of marriage itself.”

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/2968

[frog92969]

20. But the abuse of those children is a non-issue to them.

Fundies are warped beyond redemption.

[Dragonfli]

9. It is very disturbing to know the administration embraces such religious extremists

In light of the fact that they have cells devoted to terror and murder like their Muslim counterparts - very disturbing indeed.

They do not belong in government, even the good ones that love rather than hate, it is against our constitution for very good reason.
The FBI really should treat those terrorist cells like the terrorist cells they are and the president should not be advocating their issues for them and giving them an office in government that advises on policy.

I predict the death of many doctors and gay people as they wallow in the cofidence the continued power they receive from our politicians gives them.

Even if we dodge the rise in violent crimes bullet, their growing political power is already eroding the rights and liberties provided us by our constitution, and they are far from done meddling.

To any that have not read it I recommend the book, "American fascists - The Christian Right and the War On America" by Chris Hedges

[madfloridian]

10. And look what they have been doing covertly.

Most states already have tremendous restrictions on women's rights

I don't know how many states are as bad as Florida, but I worry about leaving anyone's rights in state hands if things are like they are here.

[Dragonfli]

11. After a quick review

I realized that I was only aware of a small percentage of what you posted in that link.
Bookmarking for more serious review tomorrow.

Thanks as always for the depth of information you take the time to research and post for us.
I wish I could say the information you gather was reassuring to those of us that are civil liberty geeks, I would rather be informed than reassured however and am thankful for it. It has harder for them to overtake a democracy when those that support it are well informed and hopefully prepared for its defense.

You are most certainly part of the solution!
Thank you for all you do.
:patriot:

[Starry Messenger]

12. You said it madfloridian.

After this week though, I'm starting to think the American Taliban wised up and got law degrees so that they can "pass" as mainstream. Everyone is so cowed by big words they don't know the damage getting done. Nibbled bit by bit.

[madfloridian]

14. They did form their own law colleges....we need to tremble at what they have done.

Pat Robertson's brainchild:

How Pat Robertson's law school is changing America.

Goodling is an improbable character for a political scandal. She's the mirror opposite of that other Monica—the silly, saucy minx who felled Bill Clinton. A 1995 graduate of an evangelical Christian school, Messiah College, and a 1999 graduate of Pat Robertson's Regent University School of Law (this seems to be her Web page), Goodling's chief claim to professional fame appears to have been loyalty to the president and to the process of reshaping the Justice Department in his image (and thus, His image). A former career official there told the Washington Post that Goodling "forced many very talented, career people out of main Justice so she could replace them with junior people that were either loyal to the administration or would score her some points." And as she rose at Justice, according to a former classmate, Goodling "developed a very positive reputation for people coming from Christian schools into Washington looking for employment in government."

Jerry Falwell's brainchild:

Jerry Falwell's Liberty University law school

Liberty University's School of Law will employ professors who are: committed to the inspiration and infallibility of the Bible; committed to the Lordship of Jesus Christ; committed to a strict constructionist view of the U.S. Constitution; committed to training godly attorneys for the law profession, for service in American government or as judges and justices. Our law school, like Liberty University, will recruit students who have a desire to impact our nation and the world for our Savior.

In a nation that, in one generation, has legalized abortion on demand, removed prayer and Bible reading from our schools and more recently attempted to outlaw the Pledge of Allegiance because of the words "under God," it is high time that we create a law school that will produce men and women who are committed to the Judeo-Christian ethic, the preciousness of human life and the defense of the Judeo-Christian values that formed this great nation.

In recent years, we have witnessed an acceleration of discrimination and persecution against people of faith in the workplace and in our nation's public schools. The Liberty University School of Law will intently focus on training attorneys who will aggressively defend the religious rights of people of faith in this nation. I envision our graduates going forth to win many important battles against the anti-religious zealots at the American Civil Liberties Union.

In the past, our pre-law students have gone on from Liberty to the great law schools of America. My son, Jerry Falwell Jr., attended the University of Virginia School of Law and is today chief counsel of Liberty University. David Gibbs III went out from Liberty to the Duke University School of Law and today he and his father lead the very influential Christian Law Association. Many other Liberty graduates are now making an impact in the legal world after earning their law degrees in a variety of institutions. Now we will have the opportunity to train future conservative lawyers right here at Liberty!

[LWolf]

13. Agreed. nt

[madfloridian]

16. "And the winner gets the right to teach our children what to believe."

Those are the words of Gary Bauer.

Gary Bauer (American Values)

"We are engaged in a social, political, and cultural war. There's a lot of talk in America about pluralism. But the bottom line is somebody's values will prevail. And the winner gets the right to teach our children what to believe."

[RainDog]

36. And they have already lost that battle and we will win the war

because, demographically, they are a small segment of the American population.

honestly, the SBs were NEVER against birth control when I was a kid. We were never taught that birth control was wrong - in fact, the Southern Baptists were so bigoted against the catholics that birth control was a good thing simply because the catholics were "against" it.

in any case, these people have made themselves irrelevant - in terms of the fact that they will lose the "culture war" and the battle of reason v. insanity. Because, honestly, they are so outside of the frame of reference for anyone who has anything to do with the advancement of this society - what they do is impede the good. They stand in the way of making this nation a better place because of their bigotry toward this group or that group. They apparently cannot conceive of a god of love. The god these people know does not represent the view of god as a being that cares for the well-being of humans, that loves them. Who wants a god like that? Who wants a god that is a hateful, abusive parental figure?

I mean, it's sick to see god as a hateful being who wants to oppress one segment of the population or another. I don't care what you call the religion.

[madfloridian]

17. They say H. R. 2410 is Obama's pro-abortion agenda to promote abortions abroad.

There is little common sense involved in some of these pro-life groups.

http://www.lifenews.com/nb216.html

"Pro-Life Members of Congress Stand Up to President Obama's Abortion Agenda
Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- They gave it a valiant effort last week, but pro-life members of the House failed to stop President Obama's international abortion agenda. They couldn't overpower the support for H.R. 2410, the Foreign Relations Authorization bill. Despite Rep. Chris Smith's best efforts, his colleagues approved the legislation 235-187 effectively breaking ground on a massive new effort to promote abortion abroad. Through the Office of Global Women's Issues, the State Department will have even more resources at its disposal to export the President's abortion agenda. As Rep. Mike Pence (R-Ind.) told the chamber, "...beyond these extraordinary increases (a single year increase of 35% in the State Department's basic salary and operations), this legislation does a disservice to the values of the millions of Americans who cherish the sanctity of life. We deserve a foreign relations budget that respects our pocketbooks and our values. This does neither." Eighteen Democrats crossed over to vote with Republicans against the bill. After the final votes had been cast, the Congressional Pro-Life Caucus took a turn on the House floor to blast the public funding of abortion in the D.C. Appropriations bill. Rep. Jean Schmidt (R-Ohio) led the charge, which included Congressmen Marsha Blackburn (R-Tenn.), Virginia Foxx (R-N.C.), Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.), prFutcileo-life Democrat Kathy Dahlkemper (Penn.), Reps. Joe Pitts (R-Penn.), and Chris Smith. These stalwart women and men did an outstanding job of communicating a compassionate pro-life message."

It does NOT promote abortion. I found this explanation which helped because nowhere in the bill is the word abortion found.

"However, if you read the bill's text and research the Office of Global Women's Issues, it becomes clear that supporting equality and human rights for females and persons with an alternative sexual orientation is hardly supporting "unlimited abortions." Facts are stronger than emotions. Best of luck in your future endeavors!"

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-2410

Looking for the 18 Dems who voted against this bill.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2009-328

[Wednesdays]

18. K&R

:kick:

[frog92969]

19. Organized religion will bring the destruction of us all

Bank on it!

[catrose]

21. But don't they care about the souls of the 50% of fertilized embryos

that never implant or spontaneously miscarry in the first trimester? Shouldn't they be baptizing them in utero? Shouldn't there be a crusade to save their souls and bodies?

:sarcasm:

[madfloridian]

22. It's all a power trip with them. Power over women.

Power over gays. It is scary.

[quidam56]

23. That's life over in Hannity's America

http://www.wisecountyissues.com/?p=138

[bertman]

26. Power over EVERYONE in the name of GAWD ALMIGHTY.

Social control is the name of the game. The scam of the millenia. Powerful old men making up shit about who's supposed to do what and why and what's gonna happen to you if you don't do what they tell you to do.

You gotta give 'um credit for knowing how to lead the sheeple to slaughter.

Before Yahweh and God and Allah there were a plethora of deities who were invented to tell people how to live. It's a human disease to need some invisible being to tell you how to live.

Thanks for bringing this up, Madflo. These people are Nazis in suits and ties with hymnals in their hands.

Recommend.

[bertman]

24. Jesus H. Christ, catrose. Don't give 'um any more fucking ideas!!

[get the red out]

25. Thank you! Good work on this journal.

I got attacked over and over by two men on DU a few days ago for trying to talk about the real agenda of the anti-choice people being to ban birth control. These guys kept trying to say that the anti-choicers they knew weren't like that so anyone who suggested such a thing was wrong and hateful.

I once saw a conservative post on a message board that breast cancer was the punishment from God for women who had no children. Idiot, my one close friend who is a survivor of breast cancer has three kids, but they don't let the truth get in the way of their rhetoric. I have also seen them post that if their wife were pregnant and had to die to bear the child then she needed to die because it was God's way.

Their God doesn't play nice and they want to force him down everyone's throats. We need to know the truth and not stick our heads in the sand, these people have no place making any rules in a secular society. I don't think it is a good idea to have these people in health care fields.

And it is correct, religion has changed greatly since the Republican Party took it over. Just another corporate merger gone wrong.

[madfloridian]

28. I missed that or would have defended your stance. Yes, birth control is next.

And you knows what comes after that.

[get the red out]

31. In all it was an interesting thread

but there were a few people who seemed to have real problems with the idea that women should really have control of their reproductive lives. And some simply do not accept that the desire to control women's reproduction is misogyny. The original post made that assumption and I happened to agree with her, as did many others.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5826983

Here is a link (I hope). The thing got so big it takes ages to come up.

[madfloridian]

32. Many here at DU do not truly believe in a woman's choice.

They say they do, but if they say she can not make decisions with her doctor...then they are in effect calling her incapable of rational thought.

And they are willing to jail doctors for two years if they get caught trying to save the life of the woman in a state with confusing laws.

There are many here who are anti-choice.

[get the red out]

34. I have noticed they are anti-choice

And have been shocked by it. I just can't get my mind around why someone would want to call themselves a liberal and be anti-choice. I firmly believe if the religious right wanted to pass laws controlling a man's penis, there would be an outcry that could be heard from the international space station.

[Lars39]

29. Re: the breast cancer...

some fundies believe that if you have breast cancer it's because you've had an abortion. :grr:

[get the red out]

30. They make presentations about it

They came to the large, state funded university in my city and made a presentation with that snake oil last year. If someone was walking around campus telling people to take aspirin as a cure for cancer I am sure something would be done to refute it publicly, especially at a university that has a large teaching hospital and prides itself on his medical colleges.

But if you claim "religion" you can make up anything you want, condemn anyone you want, and basically claim the right to control people's minds. And especially make young women scared of/hate their own bodies and feel inferior.

[Lars39]

33. That's horrible.

And you're so right.:(

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

35. Obama is continuing taxpayer funding for "faith-based" religious organizations .. .!!!

Whatd is the figure now?

Anyone know?

[conscious evolution]

37. But america doesn't make deals with terrorists

Wasn't that one of the riech wings favorite sayings at one time?
By appeasing the christian terrorists we fucked-up big time.

[penndragon69]

38. Not the Amerikan Taliban!

I think we should not be so rude to the Taliban, they support Islamic fanaticism.

If we want to label christian Fanaticism,
I would suggest the term
PALINITES !

This term explains exactly what they are... FANATICAL, BIGOTED Armageddonists.

May they all drink their drug laced kool-aid and take a very long dirt nap!

[tomreedtoon]

39. I'm sorry, Madfloridian, because I like you.

But you don't see that simply standing up for what you believe is no good. When you put a sign on your lawn with which they disagree, you basically paint a target on your back.

And when you try to engage their intelligence with logical arguments, you lose, because their beliefs are not based on intelligence. They are based on deep-felt fears and desperation. They are afraid. They were born afraid. I think anyone who was alive and conscious since the assassination of John Kennedy is subject to fear, and every major event since has been broadcast and engaged as fear.

The greatest problem progressives/liberals/whatever people are called this week is that they are left-brained people. They believe in logic, facts and measured qualities. They have no right-brain activity to speak of; they don't imagine, they don't consider, they shut down their emotions and they restrict themselves to what their left brain says.

Or to view it from another perspective, they don't feel. A long time ago, a minister named Charles Merrill Smith wrote a book entitled "How to Become a Bishop Without Being Religious." Although the satire of "standard brand Protestantism" is a touch dated, he outlined three rules for writing sermons. To have a successful sermon, a minister must:

1) Make them laugh
2) Make them cry
3) Make them feel religious.

As operated by the right wing, you must:

1) Make them laugh. (Loosen them up with a little hilarity at the expense of whatever apparent liberal nonsense is in the news today.)

2) Make them cry. (Explain how the target for today is ruining our country, our jobs, our income, our lives, our place in the world.)

3) Make them feel patriotic. (Tell people what attitude to take towards the target for today - either emotional attitude or actual action...like write David Letterman's sponsors, tell your Congressman he's betraying America, whatever.)

Their plans work because they touch the emotions. The only emotions most progressives ever talk about is anger, and for them, anger is evil and must be suppressed at all costs.

Until you, Madfloridian, and all the other people on DU, understand that THIS is why you are hated and ignored and lynched so much, you will never stop being hated, ignored and lynched.

[madfloridian]

40. LOL I need to read that 4 or 5 more times and think deeply on it.

:hi:

[Deep13]

41. Too late to recommend, but I can still agree.

:thumbsup:

[troubledamerican]

42. David Letterman just strengthened Sarah Palin. By caving in.

Instead of pointing out that Palin was using her children for political victimhood scoring.

Instead of pointing out the many other comedians who have made similar jokes --

Including John McCain's notorious 1998 "joke" about Chelsea Clinton.

I nominate David Letterman for the Harry Reid/Dick Durban award for Cave-In Virtuosity.