Maybe the problem isn't health insurance but healthcare costs?

[dkf]

I'm reading a thread about how this insurance company didn't pay for this or that but its the cost of the procedures that are so damned crazy.

How do our costs compare to those of other countries procedure by procedure? How much do our medical providers make? Do we expect more expensive equipment and a wider range of equipment?

Obama talks about efficiencies through technology but is that really the only savings possible?

[DrToast]

1. It's the waste

There's a lot of "health care" that may not be necessary and may actually do more harm than good.

The beef with the health insurance companies is that if you eliminate them, you eliminate the need to make profits. That would help some, but that's only part of the reason why health insurance costs so much.

[marmar]

2. As long as insurance, hospital and pharmaceutical companies own Congress....

..... costs are always going to be high.

[tridim]

3. The President has definitely addressed this problem as well

Read it here on DU in the last month.

Looking for a link.

[Deja Q]

4. I've mentioned examples in the past too...

Overpriced aspirin tablet when the same cost can buy one a case of aspirin...

Replacement CPAP machine equipment at suspiciously rapid intervals, including gear that is grossly unnecessary.

This isn't profiting. It's profiteering. Fleecing. Abusing. Stealing.

One needn't look very far into the system to figure out it's a real mess, for which we are the sacrificial lambs to fill their freezer with extra tasty mutton.

[stray cat]

5. The doctors decide what tests to run and also directly get paid for by the procedure

Thats like letting a car salesmen tell you how many cars to buy and which ones or you will die. Profits for an individual doctor needs to be unlinked to the shear number of procedures he does or asks to be done.

[Andy823]

6. It's the greed

Every part of our health car system is rampant with greed. Doctors, hospitals, clinics, labs, insurance companies, drug companies, they all want a piece of the pie, and they get it!

[Thegonagle]

11. I disagree with the generalization that doctors are greedy, however,

the system doesn't encourage them to be efficient. It encourages the opposite.

I think that most doctors deserve to be paid very well. Most went in wanting to help people. The fact that the income can afford a very comfortable lifestyle (not multi-national corporate CEO comfortable, but upper-middle class comfortable) is a secondary, but significant factor which motivates them to finish their educations, so that they really can help people to the best of their abilities. Some of them literally went through hell on earth to become doctors, especially with how messed up our so-called system really is.

It sounds like some doctors resort to ordering "unnecessary" tests or procedures simply to help keep their respective clinics (and their own families) operating on the black side of zero. (And maybe they see this as a way to be more thorough, so that they don't miss anything that could be wrong, and so that the patient feels well cared for. It's all highly subjective, and could generate reams of discussion, opinions, and counter-opinions.)

[Vinca]

7. It's been a snowball over many, many years.

The provider sets a fee, then big insurance tells them what percentage they'll pay. The provider ups the fee so the percentage will result in the amount they wanted in the first place. Next review, same thing. Provider sets the fee, insurance tells them what percent they'll pay, provider ups the fee. Over and over and over and over again. If insurance agreed to pay the original amount, the provider wouldn't keep raising the fee. But, as we know, you don't get billionaire insurance CEO's unless somebody is getting screwed.

[invictus]

8. That is exactly right.

nt

[Joanne98]

9. It's BOTH! Too many people want to live off the sick!

[Cleita]

10. The only way you can control the costs is to have single payer. The government

can then set the fees, with agreement with the health care providers, like they do in Canada. Our Medicare also sets fees, however, the flaw in our system is not meeting with representatives of the health care industry to agree on fair fees that everyone is happy with. This is how they can deliver health care to every Canadian for half of what we pay per capita in health care costs. They also barter with the pharma companies to bring the cost of prescription drugs down.

[Juche]

12. We spend 16% of GDP. Other wealthy nations spend 8-11%

Places like Japan, Taiwan, Italy and the UK provide everyone with healthcare that you cannot lose for around 8% of GDP. France has the world's best healthcare and I think it is about 10% of GDP.

Part of the reason ours is so expensive is that ours is run by corporations who want to make as much money as possible, whereas other countries healthcare are run by the public sector with the goal of providing the highest quality care at the lowest possible cost. So naturally our healthcare system is more expensive. That is how the people who actually run it want it to be, it makes them more money.

Something like $700 billion in healthcare spending each year doesn't do anything to improve health outcomes.

[vaberella]

13. You do realize that health care costs are tied to educational costs and specialization.

If you're looking for a full change then you'd want to subsidize medical school and ensure that your doctors are fully equipped with the latest knowledge of their field---this includes medicine. That would be astronomical in relation to costs.

I think the one nation that has close to that system for their caregivers and only one group of caregivers is England. We're looking at the nurses. High volume of nurses and always looking for more, massive benefits if you do become a nurse with regular up-to-date training.

In the end cost of procedures is related to a lot. Then you have to take into account the specialization of the doctor....that would entail a whole new bout of problems. Some doctors do work pro-bono from time to time. But a lot of specialized doctors live out of their means in the US and need to have their costs met.

However, preventative care really goes a long way to prevent the decline of that---excluding those with genetic a genetic or severe contracted disease.


Our medical providers normally make something based on region and state. How to describe? It's like going to a University. Larger more private and "known" schools costs you more and higher paid professors. Larger cities of well known hospitals normally means more pay for their care givers and the like.

Technology does work wonders. Basic economics states that more technology in the short run is rather expensive however there are long run benefits that make things cheaper. The cost will be great in the short run but when everything is electronical it will greatly reduce costs nation wide. Easier access to patients records, less time in searching for information. Less cost in housing so many paper related information....on and on and on. Plus it cuts down in administrative workers.

[ellacott]

14. Thank you so much for bring that up

Some doctors get out of medical school with school loans in the hundreds of thousands. Something has to be done to assist doctors with this expense. Another area that has to looked into is malpractice insurance. Doctors in some specialties pay over 50K a year for malpractice incurance.

[Doctor_J]

15. Yes, the doctors are ripping us off as well as Big Insurance

they are in it together.

[Cal33]

16. The problem is BOTH health insurance AND healthcare costs.

The healthcare costs are made up of medical personnel (M.D.s mainly) + pharmaceutical companies.
Both of these overcharge - the pharmaceutical companies, in particular. Years ago I read that
it was common practice for them to charge 5,000 to 10,000 times the cost price of their products.
Their main explanation was that research costs a lot of money.

Sure, research does cost a lot of money. But 5,000 to 10,000 the cost price of their pills?
It's hard to believe.

[dflprincess]

17. Health insurance costs add nothing to health care

at least the doctor provides a service.

Health insurance companies are there only to maximize profits for their share holders and pay their corporate officers big fat salaries. They are not there to help their customers.