I, like Obama went to a nazi concentration camp last year. Dachau...

[Windy]

While I am not of jewish heritage,the stark example of man's inhumanity to man is sobering to say the least. I can't imagine what it would be like to get a personal tour of one of those places of horror by someone who survived. I would not be surprised if Obama hardens his stance against torture even further. Also, don't be surprised if you see some action taken on investigating the Bush administration's war crimes. Its one thing to talk about evil and inhumanity, its another thing to bear witness to it, even if it is many years after the fact.
Some of the tactics used by the Nazis were used by the Bush administration, notably, hanging people up by their bound hands for hours at a time from a hook in the roof... There is no excuse for cruelty.

I saw it on his face. His tour made a mark on him that he will never be able to remove.

[closeupready]

1. Better late then never, but he will look back in shame at his waffling on this issue.

There should be no question that torture is always evil and wrong.

[Occam Bandage]

3. Obama hasn't waffled on torture. He's been unequivocal in denouncing and banning it in all cases,

and in ending the process of extraordinary rendition. The only "waffling" he's done on torture is as regards the release of photographs to the public, which is unrelated to the evilness and wrongness of torture. However, I agree the photographs can be compared to the existence of the death camps at Buchenwald and Dachau, and the reason to release the photographs is similar to the reason for those camps being open today.

[PretzelWarrior]

4. you're being a jerk.

way to channel Rove and Cheney. and on DU, even!

[closeupready]

6. Did you tour the 'showers' at Auschwitz? I did, and

it was a really thought-provoking, tearjerking experience. So, I don't know, maybe I have always been a softie, but that experience just made me even more intolerant of those who support, even obliquely, violations of human rights. I don't know if I would say outright that Obama does support such things, but it really does seem to depend upon his mood rather than a firm grip on what is right and what is wrong.

[PretzelWarrior]

8. ah. so it's a "moodiness" thing. whatever strikes him at the moment. righhhtt.

I understand how emotional your trip was to see those horrific testaments to evil perpetrated on Jewish people and others the Nazis saw fit to destroy. (Communists, Jehovah's Witnesses, gays, etc).

But don't even profess to know what Obama believes in his heart. He is against torture and will not allow it in his administration's CIA. What you may have a point about is will he have the moral courage to look back and fully investigate this torture to see those who are guilty of breaking the law are prosecuted.

We shall see. But that question doesn't draw into question whether or not he waffles on the idea of torture. What you said is highly insulting to the PResident.

[closeupready]

9. What do you mean by "highly insulting to the President"?

I'd like you to explain what you mean by that, and also, what that means in terms of how I should address that in response.

Are you saying you think my post is about calling him bad names? Why would I do that?

If that is the case, DU is a bit deeper-thinking than perhaps you are accustomed to, and you'd be better off on Facebook or Twitter or something.

[Windy]

11. I personally think you are denegrating the president and his deep sense of history... he's only

been in office a very short few months and has changed the tenor and tone of international relations.

[Cha]

16. You're lying..

SHAME ON YOU.

[AllieB]

2. I've been to Dachau and Auschwitz.

Both were very sobering and upsetting. I think you're right that this may have some effect on Obama.

[Windy]

10. You've been there. How could it not have an effect on him... nt

[Karenina]

13. I've not been to them. I need go no further than a block away.

In my city there are bronze plaques in the sidewalk in front of buildings with the names of those who were seized and murdered. I see the old rolling stock in my travels through the country. I had a meltdown at a concert in a church where ONE PILLAR had not been restored. The plaque read "A warning to the living from the dead." An octogenarian sitting in the pew next to it when I just completely lost it comforted me as if I were her own grandchild who had just discovered the awful family secret. The stain is everywhere. TRUTH and RECONCILIATION is the healing salve.

[AllieB]

15. Hopefully he'll punish the Bush torturers.

[CoffeeCat]

5. I have been stricken by the existence of Guantanamo...

...because I feel that our government was behaving in ways that could lead
to Holocaust circumstances.

I think we have to call a spade a spade--and say that detaining people who have not
been charged with a crime--and then torturing them and treating them inhumanely--is
walking right up to that concentration camp line.

Our government desperately tried to make us hate Muslims and not care about what happened
to them. They tried to make us afraid of their religion and any Iraqi who fought back
against our illegal war was declared an "insurgent". If someone blew up my family and
then proudly touted the bombing campaign as "Shock and Awe" I'd be an insurgent too.

Making our country hate Muslims was the goal, so we would be indifferent when they
were treated inhumanely. They were hoping we'd look the other way when we set up
a prison and held people for years with very little oversight--and off the shores of
our the continental U.S.

We are fooling ourselves if we think Guantanamo, torture, indefinite detention, waterboarding
and the vilification of all Muslims isn't dangerous as hell. These are ingredients that lead
to worse--and it seems obvious to me that our government wanted worse, but public sentiment
and Obama's election thwarted their sociopathic efforts.

[PretzelWarrior]

7. it's just one of the reasons Pres Obama barely contained a grimace

when seeing off the Bush Clan. They are so evil and dragged our moral standing down so far, and President Obama is aware of that.

[sdfernando]

12. We actually lived in Dachau

Not the town, the actual camp. My Father was stationed in Germany in the early 60s. Both my brother and I were born there...Germany I mean, not the camp. The hospital was in Munich. I don't remember anything about the place, but I did a report on Dachau when I was in Jr. High. Dachau is commonly referred to as the the very first concentration camp. Lots of sobering statistics about that place. I remember thinking that I could not believe that the US Army housed families in that place!

[DURHAM D]

14. When did the US army house families at Dachau?

Were they family members of Nazis on trial after the war?