Is there anything stopping a private non-profit health care plan?

[DrToast]

What's stopping a non-profit organization from offering health insurance? I don't know all the laws involved, but is there a reason nobody tries this? Or has someone?

[sandnsea]

1. Kaiser, some BC/BS

They're already out there along with a number of non-profit hospitals and clinics.

[DrToast]

2. Are they any better?

[backscatter712]

3. Most of the non-profits went for-profit.

And even the "non-profits" tend to hide their profits with various tricks, like paying huge salaries to the big executives.

[sandnsea]

6. Nonprofit Alliance

A number of BC/BS are still non-profit.
http://www.nonprofithealthcare.org/members/

Paying people is not "hiding" profit. There is no way you can pay non-profit CEO's the same amount of money you pay to shareholders.

Health care is expensive.

[DrToast]

9. If people aren't lining up to joing these plans

Is it safe to say they aren't really any better than private plans?

[sandnsea]

10. People join these plans and like them fine

Like private plans, it depends on what you buy. They offer different coverages, deductibles, etc. Kaiser has a network of hospitals its connected to, I don't know much more about it. Some people love it, others hate it. It will be the same with any health care delivery system. There will never be anything perfect, there is no panacea to the health care problem.

[DrToast]

11. I just hear that for profit insurance companies are the problem

So I figured it would make sense for someone to start a non-profit organization that everyone can buy into that doesn't worry about making a profit.

Vanguard works like that in the mutual fund industry. The owners are the investors who buy the funds. Because of this, they have some of the lowest expense ratios in the industry.

But it doesn't sound like something like this would help all that much with health insurance, which makes me wonder if for-profit companies are really the weak link.

[sandnsea]

12. There are many weak links

I think profit is one of them but I think it's more because of the power they have over the entire industry and the way they constantly look at it from a market perspective causes them to do stupid things. Like HSA's. They encourage people NOT to get health care early, which is one of the key things that can reduce health costs long term. But you cannot get the HSA people to see that. What kind of health care system focuses on saving money instead of being healthy? Annual check-ups? I suppose they think that's pampering people. How can giving everybody an annual check-up save money?? They get it when it's their car, but not when it's their kid. That's the power of the for-profit health care industry.

[Name removed]

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[sandnsea]

4. Depends on who you ask

As with everything else, some people love their company, some people hate it.

Nonprofits also provide 70% of hospital care, according to wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States

[cabluedem]

5. BC/BS suck @$$. nt

[grantcart]

22. Kaiser wouldnt' take me because of a pre existing condition, which wasn't really relevant

They were just cherry picking for age.

They still have to compete with the profits on price so they have to be choosy on who they accept.

A lot of the government employees choose Kaiser over the for profits and like it a lot.

[Name removed]

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[emsimon33]

17. I lived in California and heard one Kaiser horror story after another

While they are "non-profit," they still have bloated overhead. A single payer system where we can choose our own private providers would address the paperwork issue, saving $400 BILLION a year!

[emsimon33]

13. The only way we can actually save money is a single payer national system

Please watch Bill Moyers Journal from May 22 on health care reform:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/05222009/watch.html

"BILL MOYERS: There aren't any details. But he seems to be advocating a public option that would compete with the private insurance-driven sector, as a way of lowering the cost. What do you think about it? Is that- am I reading his plan correctly?

"DR. DAVID HIMMELSTEIN: Well, most of the cost savings he's talking about are really illusory, I think. And my research group has done most of the research work on administrative costs in health care. And the administrative costs he's talking about saving are a tiny fraction of the potential savings under single-payer. 'Cause hospitals have to keep their bureaucracy, if you're dealing with hundreds of different plans. And doctors have to keep the bureaucracy in our office. You don't actually get the streamlining that you get from having one payer that has one set of rules and can pay lump sum budgets to hospitals. But more than that, we're worried that the public plan actually becomes a dumping ground for the unprofitable patients. As it's happening in Medicare.

"BILL MOYERS: What do you mean? How would that happen?

"DR. DAVID HIMMELSTEIN: Well, the private insurers have all kinds of tricks to avoid sick patients, who are the expensive patients. So, you put your signup office on the second floor of a walkup building. And people who can't navigate stairs are the expensive people."

or read the transcript:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/05222009/transcript4.html

[DrToast]

15. Please stop. That's obviously not the only way...

The best health care plans in the world aren't single payer.

[emsimon33]

16. Really???? Name one! Before you take this position, I urge you

to watch the show I referenced.

Also, I have actually used a single payer national health care before when I worked in Europe. While not perfect, the system was so much better than the system here that there was no comparison.

The bloated health insurance industry has spread lies and we are fools if we keep falling for those lies. I like what one DUer said: "No bill is better than a bad bill." If we are not vigilant, we will end up with the same mess as the Medicare Prescription Drug debacle.

[DrToast]

20. I've already watched the show.

France and Italy have the two best health care programs in the world ranked by WHO and neither one is single payer.

So please stop acting single payer is the only thing that can work.

[bornskeptic]

21. The Netherlands, Austria, France, Germany, and Switzerland

certainly have some of the best health care systems in the world, as does Japan.None of them is a single-payer system. As far as I know, the only single-payer systems in Europe are in Hungary and the Czech Republic. Was it one of those countries where you got such great healthcare?

[unapatriciated]

19. If you had experienced a catastrophic illness you might have a different opinion.

I had top of the line heath insurance when my son became ill in 1991 and I spent over 15 years fighting them, to pay for covered medical cost. The worst was just getting to see a specialist who cold diagnose my son (the hmo doc thought it was growing pains) and see that he got the correct treatment, I lost my home, marriage , ran up huge debit and almost my son due to constant denial of covered medical charges.
I faired better than most of the parents I met during my sons many stays at Children's Los Angeles, because I worked for a small Insurance office and knew how to read policies. It was standard procedure for the Insurance Company to either deny services and claims when it came to catastrophic or long term illness. I have be advocating for single payor since 1991 after my son almost died at the hands of my Insurance company. I am not alone in this opinion many doctors and health are professional share it.

this is a good link in support of single payor.
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single_payer_resources.php

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

14. That was the original idea behind HMO's

didn't stick very long, charging for insurance and then denying coverage is WAY too profitable.

[bullimiami]

18. as with everything in this craphole capitalist lassiz faire system

greed fucks it all up.
regulation and enforcement is the solution but greed has also gamed the government.

i think any setup could be made to work including the one we have but it cant be allowed to run amok and steal and exploit its customers to increase profit.