Poll: Democrats and Repulicans agree on photos -3/4 of public opposes release, including 62% of Dems

[jefferson_dem]

:hide:

Poll: Democrats and Repulicans agree on photos
Posted: 01:00 PM ET

From CNN Deputy Political Director Paul Steinhauser

WASHINGTON (CNN) – It isn't often that Democrats and Republicans see eye to eye. But on the thorny question of whether photos of U.S. military personnel allegedly abusing Iraqi prisoners should be released, a new national poll suggests Democrats and Republicans appear to agree.

Nearly three out of four Americans questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Tuesday do not believe the U.S. government should release the photos.

The poll suggests that 87 percent of Republicans are against the public release of the photos, as are 62 percent of Democrats. Three out of four independent voters would also prefer for the photos to stay under wraps.

"Obama has been getting some pressure from the liberal wing of his party to release the photos, but six in ten liberals in the poll say that the photos should not be made publicly available," says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland.

Last week, President Obama reversed course on the issue. The White House now says it no longer supports the release of the photos, which allegedly show prisoners allegedly being abused by U.S. personnel in Iraq and Afghanistan.

President Barack Obama said Wednesday that he told government lawyers to object to a court-ordered release of Defense Department photos showing alleged abuse of detainees because the release could affect the safety of U.S. troops and "inflame anti-American opinion."

The CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll was conducted Thursday through Sunday, with 1,010 adult Americans questioned by telephone. The survey's sampling error is plus or minus 3 percentage points.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/19/poll-democrats-and-repulicans-agree-on-photos/

[mdmc]

1. Close your eyes cant happen here!

USA!USA!

[slay]

45. I know - why are so many people afraid of the truth?

Did they really buy Obama's bullshit arguement that it would "endanger the troops"? Argh it is just so frustrating to me when Americans actually support censorship! And by censorship I mean a cover-up of the amount, extent, and severity of the torture we used on the HUMAN BEINGS depicted in those pics. If someone doesn't want to look at them that's fine, but do NOT deny me the right, and the tools, to seek the truth. It's shit like THIS that makes me pesimistic - it's shit like THIS that makes me not trust any of those fuckers in government - it's shit like THIS that makes me seriously doubt both the intelligence, and the logical thinking abilities of the American people. It's shit like THIS that makes me think - yeah, we really are fucked. :(

[mdmc]

49. easy answers

Imagine we could make our troops safer by avoiding releasing these photos. No need to bring the boys back home.. They are safe because America has not seen what was done in our name.

Easy answers, like kinky sex, make the world go 'round..

Peace my friend. Peace and courage..

ps- I still have faith in Obama (Faith is the substance of all things hoped for, the evidence of all things yet unseen). He know better then I the workings of the world.

Have faith BRO!

[Mari333]

80. the German people didnt want to see the Concentration Camps either

but they were made to see them.

[Orsino]

82. That's not complete bullshit.

I think there is a danger to Americans, military and civilian, in those photos. I just think it would be far outweighed by the moral authority we could begin to gain by coming clean.

I doubt that this concern is really what's driving the majority to support censorship, though. I'm afraid that most of us really are lovers of authoritarianism, and secrecy "for our own good." There's also the thinking we might have to do if we were to confront our crimes in graphic detail.

[slay]

84. You make a good point about Americans being lovers of authoritarianism

I was thinking about that today - how for some sick reason we love to be told what to do and have our lives controlled for us. Not all of us are like that, but it seems Americans as a whole do indeed like it. And I agree - most people are unwilling to truly confront what we have done.

Thanks for your thoughtful post.



*edited cause my stupid keyboard doesn't work very well and leaves off letters on a regular basis argh!

[fascisthunter]

2. I Don't Buy It

and not because I disagree with the idea of not showing the photos.

[depakid]

6. It's never wise to buy anything CNN is selling through its cheap media polls

and that holds true on ANY issue.

[fascisthunter]

7. true true

[MadBadger]

8. No, not "true true" Do either of you have evidence that the CNN scientific poll is wrong?

[Freddie Stubbs]

13. Who needs proof when the polls shows results that you do not like?

:shrug:

[reggie the dog]

54. since when did polls trump out court orders?

[Freddie Stubbs]

86. The President is exercising his legal right to appeal the court order

[reggie the dog]

88. ah ok

if it is a legal appeal then ok. I misunderstood and thought he was going against justice. If he loses his appeal then he must release the photos, if they win they win, that is justice in our court system.

[fascisthunter]

14. no... and until I see verification of this poll proving it is legit, I won't buy it

the mainstream "corporate" media has a notorious history of twisting facts and lying to the American people. My doubt in a poll's veracity is based on time tested results that have shown polls have been skewed or sampled for the sake of an agenda.

Have a nice day!

[MadBadger]

22. I doubt you'd accept any kind of verification.

No idea what verification would even mean to you. I do know however that if the numbers were reversed, you'd accept that as fact.

[fascisthunter]

36. don't let your disapproval of my post

lead you to think you know me at all. Have a wonderful day!

[mkultra]

51. i dont believe you actually disapprove

And until i see some kind of verification, im not buying it.

[fascisthunter]

53. haha... fine by me

[depakid]

26. It's expensive and time consuming to do accurate research

any grad student worth their salt can tell you that.

And they can also rig you up a poll and skew the methodology toward most any conclusion that you want to hear- make it appear "scientific." Indeed, this is commonplace (and big business) in America, where polls are routinely used to influence public opinion, not reflect it.

So, if you're buying into CNN or Fox (or some other media outlet or interest groups) when they flout their cheap poll results- recognize that more often than not- you're being played for a sucker.

[mkultra]

52. Its cheap and easy to dismiss data that is unsavory

Just ask the republicans.

[bvar22]

56. Just ask the "Centrist" Democrats who insist...

...that America is not ready for Government Guaranteed Health Care.

In recent polls by the Pew Research Group, the Opinion Research Corporation, the Wall Street Journal, and CBS News, the American majority has made clear how it feels. Look at how the majority feels about some of the issues that you'd think would be gospel to a real Democratic Party:

1. 65 percent (of ALL Americans, Democrats AND Republicans) say the government should guarantee health insurance for everyone -- even if it means raising taxes.

http://alternet.org/story/29788/

[mkultra]

66. this dispute here is over what type to offer

not whether it should be offered.

[bvar22]

68. You haven't been keeping up.

There is serious discussion among "Centrist" Democrats over eliminating the Public Option all together, and just making the Health Insurance Industry promise to do better.

Don't you recall the "compromise" where the Health Insurance promised to reduce their cost $2Trillion over the next ten years IF there is NO Public Option?

[mkultra]

70. either that our you are projecting

guess which one i think it is.

[Orsino]

83. We have ample evidence that CNN is wrong...

...and we can be forgiven for suspecting their motives in almost any situation.

[polichick]

3. I'll bet those polled weren't told that there was an ACLU FOIA request...

...and why they were requesting them ~ unless they were told, this poll is meaningless.

[Uzybone]

10. I'll bet most of those polled don't care about the ACLU or FOIA

Most Americans don't belong to the ACLU. President Obama did the politically correct thing. That doesn't mean its the right thing. But I'm not surprised that most of the country supports this decision.

[polichick]

20. People can't make an intelligent decisions without knowing the facts...

It wasn't for fun that the ACLU asked for the release ~ it was to build a case to hold higher-ups accountable.

Of course sheeple will agree with a popular president if they don't know the facts ~ doesn't make his decision right.

[redqueen]

24. And the problem, as always, lies with the power the M$M holds

in shaping public opinion.

Someone else mentioned public support for the war. That was made possible because only one side was presented to the public.

The same thing is happening now. We had millions marching to stop the war... and it hardly dented public opinion.

[polichick]

29. Thank Gore for the Internet! ;) Without it, people wouldn't know anything.

[redqueen]

32. Gah...

what a scary thought.

:scared:

[polichick]

38. Not scary at all - I'd rather get my news from many sources (which have Internet versions)...

...than count on TV or U.S. newspapers/magazines exclusively ~ anyone with a computer and Internet access can read sources from around the world.

[redqueen]

41. I meant it'd be scary if we didn't have the internet. (nt)

[polichick]

43. Ohhhhh - it sure would!

[Enthusiast]

74. Because no one even knew

there was an anti war effort. They didn't show it on TV because it wasn't a tea party.

Again, the MSM is our greatest problem.

[tritsofme]

4. Nothing demonstrates the disconnect between a place like DU

and the rest of the country better than a poll like this.

[Forkboy]

30. And the ones when 3/4 of the country were for the war and we weren't.

Sometimes that disconnect is a good thing.

[Uncle Joe]

33. I tried to click on the original Washington Post Poll, but apparently they dropped it, go figure.

:shrug: So much for polls.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=99669&mesg_id=99669

[Captain Hilts]

60. DU and Democrats as a whole. The Gulf is huge. nt

[Number23]

64. You're right.

[William769]

5. Polls and the American people can be a funny thing,

The United States public’s opinion of the invasion of Iraq has changed significantly since the years preceding the incursion. For various reasons, mostly related to the unexpected consequences of the invasion, the US public’s perspective on its government’s choice to initiate an offensive is increasingly negative. A USA Today/Gallup Poll indicated that 75% of US citizens felt the US did not make a mistake in sending troops to Iraq in March 2003. However, according to the same poll retaken in April 2007, 58% of the participants stated that the initial attack was a mistake.<1> In May, 2007, the New York Times and CBS News released similar results of a poll in which 61% of participants believed the U.S. "should have stayed out" of Iraq.<2>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_popular_opinion_on_invasion_of_Iraq

[KansDem]

9. Let's see, who was it now who said he didn't pay attention to polls?

Uh, oh...mmm...Oh, yeah! "George W. Bush," the neo-con's wet dream (after Reagan).

Now watch these same neo-cons point to this poll as reason not to release the photos...

[Freddie Stubbs]

15. President Obama is not a neo-con

[KansDem]

21. Nice try...

...but, of course, you knew I was referring to the chattering masses on the right side of the aisle who have been dead-set against the release of these photos...

[Old Hank]

11. If I listened to polls, I would oppose gay marriage and women's right to choose

Because neither of those positions gather support from a majority of Americans.
Yet I stand firm on my beliefs as a progressive.

Polls also show that most Americans think torure is justified in some occassions. I don't.

[asphalt.jungle]

18. 3/4 americans believe that abortions should be legal

and that's been the case since the early 80's. that was in the recent gallup poll with the misleading headline about pro-choice/pro-life identification, which just comes down to who is better at marketing their term. if you believe abortions should be legal, you believe in choice. so i don't know what you're talking about there.

[Old Hank]

48. and if a minority were against it being legal, would you change your mind?

?

[asphalt.jungle]

59. i was simply correcting you

you said the majority are against choice, i was just letting you know that's not at all true. do i care whether or not the majority agrees with my positions? no ... although i like it when they do though because it's more likely that the laws would actually reflect my beliefs. but that's not relevant to why i responded to you.

[Bluenorthwest]

77. When VA vs Loving made inter racial marriage legal

the vast majority of the public opposed it with Bible verses a flying. That is just a fact of history.

[Enthusiast]

85. No way.

Most Americans support choice. There is no dispute about this.

[fujiyama]

12. There is one thing that comes to mind:

[beachmom]

16. This was reflected even on DailyKos, which had two competing diaries

on their Recommended list on whether it was the right thing to do or not. I know I had mixed feelings on this, and I am for open government.

[vaberella]

17. JD---you like messing with them. That's why. You trouble maker.

:spank: :pals:

[Bluenorthwest]

78. Wow. Just wow.

A thread about torture is a place you come to 'mess' with 'them'? For fun? Amazing. Just amazing. The torture was done to people. Look at one of your loved ones- we tortuered people like that. Humans.
But go ahead and post emoticons and cliqueish in jokes on such a thread. It says so much.

[nichomachus]

19. LALALALALALALA -- I can't hear you -- LALALALALALALALALA

That makes it all better.

[gordianot]

23. Almost (but not) makes you feel sorry for Germans forced to tour concentration camps.

I understand the desire to avoid outrage during war and fear for soldiers in the field. Bush/Cheney own this mess and now those who deny it. We (United States) need to take responsibility and face our demons, or at least prosecute those responsible.

[jsamuel]

25. I can tell you, some of those numbers would have been reversed if Obama said he wanted them released

This is the kind of effect a popular president can have. For good or bad...

[redqueen]

27. You sure about that?

I'm apparently considered an "Obama worshipper" or "true believer" around here, but I'd rather those photos were released.

[jsamuel]

28. it is hard to prove, but if one had a poll on this a week before he announced his decision

I bet you that it would show Democrats leaning towards releasing them rather than keeping them secret.

[SpartanDem]

40. Maybe, but that doesn't change the fact

that overall the vast majority of Americans opposed releasing the photos, assuming you're right that means around 2/3 opposed last week. It's hard to expect any politican to go against those numbers.

[jsamuel]

46. really, he should be doing what he thinks is best for the country

which I am sure he thinks he is doing, but I disagree

[Uzybone]

57. you are probably right

if Americans like and trust a president, they generally go with him on issues like this.

[Raster]

31. I wonder what percentage of those that don't want the photos released

still believe that Saddam and Iraq had ties to Al Queda or had weapons of mass destruction?

[Thrill]

34. Obama and Axelrod know politics. Thats why they opposed it

The putting the troops in danger argument hurts. Repukes were going to pounce on Obama for it. And just like how Pelosi is out there dangling, the Dems would of left Obama out there

[redqueen]

35. It's not his decision anyway is it?

It's a matter for the court to decide... isn't it?

Courts have ordered the release of these photos more than once. I'd love to know what's going on up there.

[Thrill]

37. True. But he can appeal to the Supreme Court. And that conservative court will not make them release

the pictures.

And even if they do. Obama can now say he tried to stop it. He comes out of it fine

[redqueen]

39. I stopped paying much attention after the first order to

release them was ignored for months on end.

I wonder who filed the appeals back then... and who would do it now.

Either way, these photos are leaking, from what I understand. Even if they never comply with the court's order, I think it'll still happen eventually.

[vaberella]

79. They already have...

Someone here had posted a link to about 5 or 6 of said photos that was given to an Australian newspaper years back.

[Still Sensible]

47. Bingo! The decision to appeal was an attempt

to secure the political cover. When he released the memos he had similar cover. You are spot on. From a political standpoint, I think the President would like to see the truth come out... I can't speculate how far he would like the potential prosecutions to go, but as a practical, political matter he cannot be seen as the primary driver behind frog marching the prior administration IMO.

[NYC_SKP]

42. Buzzkill, WTF are we gonna outrage about NOW??22???!!

LA, LA-LA!!! :P

[alcibiades_mystery]

44. The principles of the frothing mob take precedence, doncha know?

[Old Hank]

61. The decision of the Federal Judge will take precedence

Just in case you are implying that majorities in polls take precedence. We are not ruled by a polling system.

[alcibiades_mystery]

63. It'd be nice if some folks let that happen before working themselves up into a tizzy

Old Hank.

[ShortnFiery]

50. I don't believe it. I want to know all the particulars of this "illustrious" Poll.

Damn I despise the M$M. The "manufacture opinions" for the ruling elite. :grr: :nuke:

[reggie the dog]

55. the truth may piss off too many people

so we must live a lie.

[Jennicut]

58. I think its probably closer to 50/50. Look how many people still think torture was okay.

I want the photos released but get that many Americans do not.

[spanone]

62. i think most people know what these criminals did.....

[Brooklyns_Finest]

65. This thread is funny

Reminds me of when I lurked freerepublic before the November election. Week after week, polls showed that Obama was in the lead, yet no body on that site believed it. They came up with every excuse in the book as to why the polls were wrong. I do remember one sane poster who put it frankly. He said that all you had to do is talk to your friends/neighbors/coworkers, and see who they were supporting. He even mentioned that his family members, people who had voted for Bush TWICE, were saying how Obama was just a nice young man and that they were voting for him over the old dude. That poster (who was flamed) saw the writing on the wall, and in this case, people on DU need to see it as well.

When you go to work, church, school, etc, are people talking about torture, prosecuting Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld, or disclosing these pictures? Unless you live in Berkeley (which I do), I will bet that most people aren't talking about this an don't care. Obama sees the writing on the wall. There is no interest in investigating the Bush admin by the American people. Personally, I am with Obama. I want to move on to getting us out of Iraq, winning in afghanistan, stabilizing Pakistan, fixing health care and the economy, and other issues that effect the average American.

[Cali_Democrat]

72. I think you're probably right

It would be nice if Obama prosecuted the Bush/Cheney admin, but it may not be worth it. Obama could pay a huge political price.

I would rather have Obama reelected than have Bush Administration officials in jail and a repuke president pardoning them in 2013.

[smalll]

67. Accessories to war crimes, all of them! To the Hague with them!

Once Bush, Cheney, then Pelosi and Obama get convicted, and then we go after the lower-level figures in government, we need to start sweeping through the majority of the American citizenry and bring judgement down upon their heads also!

Our neighbors are WAR CRMINIALS! How can we permit them to walk the streets freely?!?

:sarcasm:

[LynnTheDem]

69. Yes, coz playing Ostrich works so well! It's not the TORTURE...

it's the PHOTOS!1!

If we don't see em, they never happened!!1!









Just like when we drive over a cliff...close your eyes and you'll be safe as houses.

:eyes:


Grow up, America.

[Creideiki]

71. 50% of the population is below average

And better than 90% are cowards. Most people in society will avoid any conflict.

Looks like the Ohole is in the majority.

[jeanpalmer]

73. The US has been brainwashed

by Bush and the MIC to believe every muslim was a 9-11 hijacker who needs to be tortured or bombed. Shame on the people in power for turning our country into a racist state.

[seaglass]

75. Oh look!

"Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling his job as president?"

Approve/Disapprove/Unsure

6/18-22/03 68 29 4
4/27-30/03 71 26 3
4/16/03 74 23 3
4/9/03 77 20 4
4/3/03 71 25 4
3/23/03 68 27 4
3/20/03 67 28 5
2/26 - 3/2/03 62 35 4
2/19-23/03 60 34 6
2/6-9/03 64 34 3
1/30 - 2/1/03 62 34 4
1/28/03 62 36 2
1/27/03 59 37 4
1/16-20/03 59 38 2
12/02 66 32 2
10/31 - 11/3/02 LV 67 32 1

10/24-27/02 67 29 4
9/23-26/02 67 30 3
9/5-8/02 71 27 3
9/3-6/02 69 28 3
7/24-28/02 69 28 3
7/11-15/02 72 25 2
6/16-17/02 74 22 4
6/7-9/02 77 20 3
5/18-19/02 76 22 3
4/18-21/02 78 20 2
3/25-28/02 79 18 3
3/7-10/02 82 16 2
1/24-27/02 83 14 3
12/18-19/01 86 12 2
11/27/01 89 9 1
11/5-6/01 89 9 2
10/8-9/01 92 6 1
9/25-27/01 90 6 4
9/13/01 86 12 2

http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob1.htm

[mmonk]

76. I really don't give a damn what one of the most propagandized

populations in the world currently thinks. Doing the right thing takes courage sometimes as well as a correct perspective on truth and priorities.

[Bluenorthwest]

81. Right and wrong are not up for a vote

And also, this is not the important question. Do you support the prosecution of criminals, even if those criminals are rich and powerful or do you think the law exists only for the average taxpayer, not the elected leadership?
Let's see the results to that question, CNN.

Many who don't want to see the pictures released still want to see justice done and the rule of law slowly rebuilt in this country.

[Occam Bandage]

87. There goes another "OMG THIS IS THE MOMENT EVERYONE HAS TURNED AGAINST HIM"

shouted (yet again in vain) by those who turned against him months before he took office.