What purpose does publishing the torture photos have? If those who perpetrated the acts have been

[GarbagemanLB]

punished, what exactly is the reason to only increase anti-American feelings in fragile regions in the Middle East?


I don't think anyone can argue that releasing these photos wouldn't increase the danger our troops face.

[HereSince1628]

1. Those who conspired to have the atrocities committed have NOT been punished.

All this crap about America will be torn apart is stuff the conspirators should have considered before they bought in.

Now it is time to bring the ugliness to light and to terminate the political and legal careers of all those who participated...from the lowest enlisted man or contractor to the president.

[GarbagemanLB]

3. Anyway, back to reality....

These photos will only inflame the resentment in the countries where our troops are, and nothing will ever be done to Cheney, Bush, and the administration at large in terms of punishment for authorizing torture.

We need to start dealing with reality.

[HereSince1628]

6. You are suggesting burying the truth. Chew that logic for a while.

It takes us to international resentment and endangers our troops.

We need to start dealing with reality, we need to quit trying to sweep it under the rug.

[GarbagemanLB]

9. Burying the truth = punishing those who committed the acts and likely saving U.S. lives? Really?

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RaleighNCDUer]

15. Again, those who committed the acts have NOT been punished.

This was not limited to a half dozen grunts and noncoms at Abu Graib. The torture techniques were imported to Abu Graib from Gitmo - by who? They were carried out at Abu Graib, Gitmo, and many as yet undisclosed locations - by who? For it to be so widespread, there had to be direct orders from up the chain - by who?

When ALL the perpetrators have been punished it will be over - unless ALL the perpetrators are punished it will NEVER be over.

[GarbagemanLB]

17. Then it will never be over to you. Jesus christ, I don't see why it is so difficult for some of you

to admit to yourselves that there will be certain people who will never, ever take the fucking blame/responsibility for this. That includes Bush, Cheney, and all those in the administration. Politics trumps the law, and it sucks but it is reality.

Having since admitted that fact to myself, I am content with focusing on the future and the great things the Obama administration can do in terms of healthcare, tax reform, etc.

[RaleighNCDUer]

20. And it will never be over for you, either

because they WILL be back. Just as they were after Nixon. Just as they were after Reagan.

We let the criminals off, and they come back 8 years later more powerful than before.

I don't think this country will survive them coming back next time. This time they controlled the president and occupied some of the most powerful seats of government, including the VP office. Next time they will be IN the presidency, and the full weight of the government will be turned on the citizenry.

Unless we actually stop them now.

[nichomachus]

41. And the reality is -- the US is a country that tortures as a matter of public policy

that's why they hate us.

Thanks

[John Q. Citizen]

2. Using that logic, Obama might consider shutting down holocaust museums. After all

What purpose does publishing the holocaust photos have? If those who perpetrated the acts have been punished, what exactly is the reason to only increase anti-post war Germany feelings in fragile regions in the Middle East?

[GarbagemanLB]

4. You'd have a point if there was a legitimate concern about violence against U.S. citizens directly

related to the release of said photos. Of course, that isn't the case and as a result the analogy is ridiculous.

[John Q. Citizen]

14. To US torture I say Never forget! and Never again. Also I don't want secret governmemt and secret

military.

If they are published, maybe those in charge and those who are subordinate will think twice in the future before engaging in war crimes. They will think, "When this comes out, it will put us in greater danger, so lets not go there. In fact that has always been one of the arguments used as to why the US used to be against torture, is that it puts our own troops in a bad position.

They will have a deferent effect for future generations.

i will write a letter and push for there release. I think it's important for a whole lot of reasons.

I will also ask that our soldiers are brought home immediately because that will greatly decrease the danger they face. That is important to me and I'm glad it's important to you as well. Feel free to write your leaders and ask to bring the troop home now, so they are safe!

[GOTV]

5. We can't expect the world to forgive us ...

... if we can't be upfront about what we did.

[bdamomma]

26. we need to be credible again, saying something like we won't do this anymore

but not taking it one step further to hold people accountable is not acceptable.

[ZombieHorde]

7. Who has been punished? nt

[GarbagemanLB]

8. Various people who participated in the photos.

[ZombieHorde]

10. The orchestrators have not been punished. nt

[GarbagemanLB]

11. And they never will be. Best to start coming to that realization now rather than later.

[Old Hank]

13. The truth, whatever it may be, must be known

And the picures reflect what we did, for good or bad.

[slay]

37. Agreed. 100%!

How can ANYONE be against knowing the truth? If the govenment doesn't want torture pics released, then maybe, just maybe, THEY SHOULDN'T TORTURE PEOPLE!!! Argh! :banghead:

[QueenOfCalifornia]

16. To bring the truth

to the fore is the right thing to do.

There are a lot of people who are waiving the flag and screaming out the Star Spangled Banner at baseball games who think that waterboarding is not torture and is instead something friendlier... it's enhanced interrogation.

The truth is not pretty but it is our truth and our shame.

We need to have it in the open... all of its ugliness. Every bit of it.

So it NEVER happens again.

[GarbagemanLB]

18. and that 'truth' will likely kill a number of U.S. troops.

[slay]

38. No, sticking them in that shithole Afghanistan is what will get them killed

If our military is at a point where PICTURES will endanger the troops, then we need to seriously re-evaluate what the fuck we are doing in the world with regards to the military. Oh and you know what would help us KNOW what our military has been up to - seeing those pictures! I have no idea how you can be against KNOWING THE TRUTH. We either seek the truth or we don't. Count me on the side that DOES seek the truth. It is MY right to know what OUR troops did in MY name - and the courts agreed. You are walking a dangerous path buddy when you support covering up the truth and hiding away the crimes of the Bush administration. Seriously. I don't buy the arguement you or Obama is putting forth today. People sign up for the military knowing it's dangerous! They didn't sign up to play a fucking extended game of Candyland!!! Sheesh! :banghead:

[Blue_Roses]

19. exactly!

I don't think releasing them is a good idea at all and I for one am glad he's made this decision.

[goclark]

22. I agree ~ we know it was done and we know it was wrong

and we have seen photos before.

Why must we see each and every photo to determine that it is wrong?

[firedupdem]

21. Our troops are in harms way. I don't see the good in releasing

them either.

[izzybeans]

23. It wouldn't if the release was backed up by a serious administration of justice

-war crimes at the highest level. But that's just what adults would do; we do not live in adult times.

[Hamlette]

24. We should publish the worst on them. . . .

all over the walls of a room and make the Cheney's live there.

Oh, and waterboard them if they don't cry when they see a child sodomized by our troops.

[annabanana]

25. How many people doubted the true horror of the Holocaust until

they saw the stacks of dead, like cord wood?

[DURHAM D]

28. Most. n/t

[Politicalboi]

27. I want thoses photos shown

But would be ok if it took place after we left Iraq and Afghanistan. I know we will never leave. But after the so called "war". But for the trials they should be shown in court not to the public yet. We need to see those pictures but in time.

[fasttense]

29. The damage has already been done.

When the acts that were photographed were committed, they served to incite the people who were tortured. Torture does many thing. It gets propaganda information. It ensures your the enemy you torture will fight to the bitter end. It puts fear into the hearts of the more vulnerable people in the population you torture. It strengthens the resolve of the enemy you torture. It makes citizens fear their own government if it tortures.

All these things have already been accomplished. Those that were tortured and survived have told their stories to their loved ones, friends and government officials. Not releasing the photos will only confirm to the people who were tortured that we will hide our black hearts from the truth. We will continue to hide the ugly immoral acts our government has done in our name. Hiding the photographs continues the cover up.

[Better Believe It]

30. Our troops wouldn't face any danger if they were not in the Middle East

Their very presence in the Middle East places them in danger.

If they were not in danger they wouldn't have guns!

[Phx_Dem]

31. None. We already know that heinous abuses were perpetrated

by the U.S. military and/or Blackwater. Releasing extremely graphic photos could endanger the troops and will serve no other purpose.

Police Departments don't generally release graphic crime scene/death photos. Why no outrage about that? Why didn't the public demand release of the Matthew Shepard or James Bird death photos? Those were heinous crimes too.

[Zodiak]

32. Nobody killed Matthew Sheppard in my name, that is why n/t

[DU GrovelBot]

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[blueclown]

34. Did I get re-directed to Free Republic?

I mean, good fucking grief, what is this, the Bush apologist site?

[slay]

36. I was wondering wtf with this thread too - how can ANYONE support covering up the truth?!?!

If you don't want these pics shown - THEN DON'T TORTURE PEOPLE!!! It's that simple. The original poster of this thread is 100% wrong - what endangers "the troops" is sticking them in an unwinnable shithole like Afghanistan! People deserve the truth! We voted for change! The courts agreed to release the photos! Argh I am so pissed at Obama - AND at the people who buy his lame defense for not releasing these photos! WHY DOES OBAMA KEEP COVERING UP THE CRIMES OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION?!?!?! :banghead: :grr: :mad:

[winyanstaz]

35. It is a crime to hid evidence of a crime....

not to mention that torture will not end if it isnt dragged out into the Light and the truth shown to the world.
The real criminals have NOT been punished.

[Martin Eden]

39. The photos could influence public opinion in the U.S.

Unless the REALITY of torture is vividly imprinted on the public mind, the American people will not demand accountability for those responsible or a permanent end to the practice. Why is it so unlikely that Bushco will be held accountable? It's because most of the Dem leadership sees criminal proceedings as a political liability, and it's a political liability because of public attitudes.

Our government's policy of TORTURE has helped recruit terrorists and placed American lives in greater jeopardy. Release of more photos (worse than Abu Ghraib) may cause more outrage initially, but in the long run could help restore our national honor if coupled with a change in the American mindset, enforcement of our own laws, and a clear signal that REAL CHANGE on this issue will outlast the Obama administration.

Maybe the release of these photos won't achieve those results, but that is the course we must set morally, legally, and for our national security.to

[quiller4]

40. No purpose at all.

[bvar22]

42. Rumsfeldian Logic.

Torture isn't the problem.
Photos of torture is the problem.
Eliminate the Photos, solve the problem.

Release the photos NOW.
Hopefully, the photos will inflame enough Americans so that Justice will be demanded.
It will be WORSE for American soldiers overseas if this is swept under the rug.
The Middle East and the World is watching to see if this administration is really about change, or more of the same.
If the photos are hidden, and the War Criminals protected, then the World will KNOW is is just more of the same.
THAT will endanger our soldiers MORE than some photos.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

43. the ones who ordered the torture have not been tried