It did look like a bow that Obama performed in front of the Saudi King.

[pnwmom]

Not just a head nod, either, but a from-the-waist bow.

Or is there another explanation?

A sudden coughing fit?

Something dropped on the carpet?

[babylonsister]

1. Who cares? Really, why? I think our president is doing a fine job. nt

[pnwmom]

5. Because a bow is a sign of subservience. Not appropriate for a President.

He didn't bow like that to the Queen of England, who is the figure-head of a Democratic government. Why should he bow before a dictator?

[soothsayer]

11. oh, feh

[babylonsister]

14. I didn't even see it, but could care less. As for the queen,

the Obamas were told to act like themselves and that's just what they did.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

25. I agree... I cringed. I don't want to see Pres Obama or Michelle bow to anyone.

[pnwmom]

30. People here were approved when Michelle didn't curtsy to the queen. (Me, too.)

But they think it's fine for Barack to bow to a dictator.

Glad there are some here who don't.

[mkultra]

50. actually , thats wrong and a very right wing talking point

a bow is a sign of respect. That is all.

Naturally, all who serve under a king would want to show their respect when they meet him. But someone who is not a subject can bow as a peer.

[jbnow]

64. A salaam can be what you say but if it is to symbolize obeisance

his right palm would be on his forehead.
Otherwise it is "A respectful ceremonial greeting"

But he clearly didn't worry how it would look to others and perhaps he should have. The right is leaving comments all over about how he kissed the king's hand as he knelt before him or genuflected

[Reterr]

65. Oh BS who the fuck cares?

I think Obama is doing a great job with this sort of stuff. This is a real senseless nontroversy.

Don't we have bigger problems than this? :eyes:

[pnwmom]

69. Lots of Dems cared when it was Nancy curtsying to the Queen.

Funny how that was wrong but it's fine for Obama to bow to a dictator.

[mwb970]

85. Oh, for goodness' sake.

Fussing over a bow is the kind of thing Malkin does. It's a sign of respect. It does not represent the transfer of American sovereignty to the terrorists.

:eyes:

[PBS Poll-435]

2. Do you honestly give a flying "F"?

Really?

[rockymountaindem]

3. Well, if diplomacy involves treating the other party like they want to be treated...

then this is just the way it is. If we expect to get along with others, that is. On the other hand, nobody likes to see our democratically-elected President bowing to a foreign monarch (especially one who is not a ceremonial figurehead, but an actual ruler).

Still, at least he wasn't kissing and holding hands like Bush did. A bow seems like a step in the right direction.

[pnwmom]

12. I'm not aware of other Presidents who have bowed to other foreign monarchs

-- especially dictators.

I don't think this is a precedent Obama should have set.

[mkultra]

51. In our political past, we have acted like douches to other countries

being diplomatic requires respect.

[pnwmom]

Other heads of state don't bow to each other. n/t

[Liberalalltheway]

4. I think he was joking ........ I hope he was joking

He was laughing when he did it. He's still young, maybe for a second he forgot he was President of the US. I saw him approach the same guy before that and after that and he didn't bow, so who knows.

[jefferson_dem]

6. Nah... He was just reaching down to pick up his Koran that he dropped.

That's all. No biggee.

[PBS Poll-435]

7. WHOA

:spray:

:thumbsup:

[babylonsister]

9. ...

:rofl:

[Barack_America]

10. Or his *real* birth certificate.

You know, the Kenyan one!

[PBS Poll-435]

16. Is that the "vault copy?"

I can't keep up.

[Barack_America]

19. The one that he stole from his grandmother just before he killed her...

...To keep her quiet.

[PBS Poll-435]

20. Oh. That one.

:rofl:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

78. With his bare hands!

[DevonRex]

77. I heard he actually hauls that vault around with him on a semi wherever

he goes just so nobody can get into it.

[otohara]

59. Good One

LOL -

[berni_mccoy]

60. lol!

[terisan]

8. It was not a wise move. nt

[SemiCharmedQuark]

79. What should he have done? Insulted every royal in the place?

I voted for Obama partly because I wanted a guy who wouldn't embarrass me when he was out on diplomatic missions.

[NYC_SKP]

13. Of course he was bowing to his secret Overlords, Saudi Arabia. Let's just impeach him now, K?

for fuck sake. :puke:

[pnwmom]

15. I'm not overreacting. I'm just not appreciating. I think

he made a mistake.

But I was hoping there was a good explanation. So far, there doesn't appear to be.

[NYC_SKP]

18. Even if it was an error, it's only as severe as we all make it out to be.

Which is why it would be best to move on.

Somewhere there must be an online compendium of diplomatic and cultural protocol that might shed light on your question.

Posting about it is not likely to answer the question.

In some cases it's a very nice sign of respect and nothing more.

Nothing more.

[Mojorabbit]

31. Why wouldn't posting about it

answer the question? Members here have a wide range of knowledge. It IS something when our elected leader bows before a king if it is not a normal greeting in that culture. They are equals on the world stage as far as being heads of state. I have never seen another President do it. Still, was it a bow or no? I can't tell so am waiting for more info.

[Abq_Sarah]

33. It's clear from the pictures and the video

That President Obama did indeed give a very deep bow to the Saudi King. It was not the type of greeting two equals exchange. It was certainly not returned. I doubt it offended anyone other than American citizens who understand we never bow before any world leader. It was a mistake and whoever advised him to do it should be shitcanned.

I doubt he'll ever repeat that mistake.

[pnwmom]

40. I remember when many of us criticized Nancy Reagan for curtsying to the Queen.

This is worse -- if it did happen -- because Obama is the President and the King is an absolute monarch.

[mkultra]

53. it was a bow and it is acceptable in thier culture

its a sign of respect, not fealty.

[CTyankee]

99. My guess is that he was told to bow at the waist.

I noticed he did bow his head slightly when he greeted the queen. Perhaps protocol told him that a deeper bow was expected with the Saudis. It is hard for me to believe that he didn't know exactly what he was doing with that gesture...

[Teaser]

29. He's Hitler McCancer. Of course we must impeach him.

.

[glowing]

17. I'm not sure what was happening, but everyone was looking downward.

I'm not sure, perhaps some kind of bug or cat walked in the middle of the group, but all the men including the King were looking down. AND really I don't give a flying hoot, at least he wasn't making out with the King like Boosh did on his private ranch.

[Barack_America]

21. Yeah, if that was a bow, then someone needs to teach him how to bow.

Fortunately, it wasn't a bow. You are correct, something clearly fell or moved and that is what everyone was reacting to.

But these people will believe what they want to believe and they have chosen not to believe in President Obama.

[Abq_Sarah]

34. Don't be absurd.

He wasn't reaching down to pick up a quarter or look at a cockroach. That would have been exceptionally disrespectful and he's got more class than that. It was an error in judgment but it doesn't take away from what he's accomplished.

[tularetom]

22. DId he kiss him on the lips?

Walk around holding hands with him?

No?

Then I don't really think there's any reason to give a crap.

[pnwmom]

42. Why is bowing any more okay than what we criticized Bush for doing?

Bowing is an act of subservience, and I hope it didn't happen. I didn't expect to see so many DUers defending it; I was hoping someone might have a different interpretation of the photos.

[tularetom]

45. It's not anymore okay and I'm not defending it

Yes we criticized bush for doing it but "we" were the only ones. You never heard a peep from the press or on TV.

My point was not that I necessarily approve of bowing to some sheik, but that there seems to be sort of a double standard when it comes to media reaction to it.

[mkultra]

54. bow is NOT an act of subservience.

go back to free republic.

[Mojorabbit]

61. Are you an expert in Saudi cultural traditions?

If so please give some more information instead of childish insults.

[pnwmom]

72. Actually, in Muslim countries it is not considered appropriate to bow before anyone

but Allah.

[jbnow]

68. Some do have a different interpretation of the photos. Everyone

is looking down and not at Obama


They think he picked something up or put something down.

[pnwmom]

73. Good point. Maybe one of them is holding something in his hand and the others

are looking at it.

[Mojorabbit]

83. It happened fast in the video. I don't think anything

was dropped though it the photos it looks possible.

[jbnow]

84. Don't think abything dropped. He is left handed though and it's

very possible he was placing or touching something on the chair/table behind them

The moment in time caught by the photo is revealing...what is everyone looking at?

[Lyric]

23. Yes, he bowed. No, it's not a big deal.

It's a sign of respect, not subservience. When you're trying to make friends and mend bridges, disrespecting a world leader would be a stupid thing to do. Obama is not stupid.

Besides, the Freepers are being hypocritical. Nobody gave a damn when Bush bowed to the Pope for the same reasons.

[babylonsister]

26. Especially 'that' pope. nt

[Bobbieo]

24. At least he didn't kiss him - like Bush did.

[pnwmom]

41. And that was disgusting. n/t

[blogslut]

27. The Saudi King is 85 years old

Respect for elders is very important in Saudi culture.

[Teaser]

28. is this the newest poutrage?

awesome.

[tekisui]

32. This, too, like all things will pass.

More stupidity will come to replace it.

[pnwmom]

43. Is it stupidity to question why or if our President would bow to a foreign monarch?

Or is it stupidity on the part of Obama's advisers not to thoroughly prep him for these meetings?

[tekisui]

44. It is just plain stupid.

It doesn't mean anything. So what, he showed respect to a head of state. Big deal.

[pnwmom]

46. Respect would be shaking his hand. Not bowing from the waist -- IF that

is what happened. I'm still hoping it was something else.

[mkultra]

57. wrong

[CATagious]

89. WHO GIVES A FUCK???

I mean, really... is this important? Really? Really?? I mean, really? The economy is in the shitter, the planet is boiling, we have ships being taken by pirates, North Korea is launching rockets, and I'm sure a pretty blonde has gone missing somewhere.... and you're concerned about whether he bowed? Really??

I'm guessing that you're not really that concerned.... just a hunch.

[mkultra]

56. its stupidity to not understand what bowing means

[DevonRex]

74. It's very much like the "finger" outrage during the primaries.

A photo that can take on insidious meaning to those who want to think that way.

[masuki bance]

35. OFFS. Seriously

It's obvious that he was reaching down for the dropped ipod.











ɯsɐɔɹɐs/

[Forkboy]

36. I vow to take this as seriously as the Hillary handbag kerfluffle.

i.e., not at all.

[Hanse]

37. It looks to me like only a dumb freeper fuck would be concerned about it

That's what I think it looks like.

[pnwmom]

38. If McCain had bowed to the Saudi King, I'm sure plenty of DUers would be

upset.

But I'm hoping it wasn't really a bow -- that, as I said, there is another explanation for the photos.

[Solomon]

39. AW Jeez, this has been our fucking problem.

We talk shit about royals and how stupid that is, then we fricking go around acting like royals. It's ridiculous. It's time for americans to pull our collective head out of our ass and join the rest of the human race. ObAma's trying, but our fucking head is so big, he's having trouble pulling it out.

[CJCRANE]

47. Look at Obama's policies and results.

It doesn't matter whether Bush kisses the Saudi King, Obama bows or (hypothetically) McCain shakes his hand.

What matters are their policies and the results of their policies.

[Caoimhe]

48. Honestly there are lots of other things to get upset about

I can't even feign outrage at this one. If you have something more outrageous, bring it.

[Caoimhe]

49. *ack* dupe

[ClarkUSA]

52. WTH really gives a shit one way or the other except for freepers, PUMAs, & other petty malcontents?

[JoePhilly]

55. At least he didn't kiss him or walking around holding hands.

[Sultana]

58. As much as I believe that the Saudi King didn't deserved to be bowed to by Obama

Move on, not a big issue.

[azmouse]

62. I wish one of the Palin's would get pregnant again

so we'd have something else to talk about...

[hileeopnyn8d]

63. I hate to keep threads like this going

but since I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere yet, I thought I would post.

If, indeed this was a bow, and I'm not sure it is given everyone is looking at the floor, it isn't called a "bow".

It's called a salaam. It is a greeting, not a sign of difference or submission, Muslims don't believe in bowing to anyone but Allah, yet the Salaam is a custom in many Muslim countries. So therefore, I can only conclude that what he did is not considered a bow in the way that we define them.

Just my opinion.

[renate]

87. excellent point--thank you! n/t

[Egnever]

66. Who fucking cares?

Would it have made you happy if he slapped him instead?

[Reterr]

67. Good grief

Who the fuck cares :eyes:?

This is the kind of BS that gets conflated with any legitimate criticism of Obama. I can see why people here sometimes suspicious of any criticism of Obama. I guess if you hang out here long enough you will see a lot of bs like this...

[DevonRex]

70. Doesn't look like a bow to me. Why do you want it to be a bow?

[NorthernSpy]

95. Why does pnwmom want it to be a bow?

Guess.

[iamthebandfanman]

71. yeah, everyone lifts their left leg up when they bow. n/t

[DevonRex]

76. Yeah, and everybody around the bower always looks at the ground around him, too. nt

[EmilyAnne]

80. Was there a fire hydrant in front of him that didn't show up in the picture?

I think there was.
Yes, in fact there was.
President Barack Obama lifted his leg and peed before the Saudi king.
This is no way to conduct oneself!
What a terrible display of diplomatic stupidity!
I, for one, am outraged.

[ShortnFiery]

75. How Ironic. If OBAMA truly wanted to get at "the hatred" of the USA's source, he'd invade

Saudi Arabia. But instead, we (Obama and all political elites) bow and beg for their approval. :puke:

[bigwillq]

81. So?

It's called respect. Obama has it. What the hell did you want him to do? :shrug:

[EmilyAnne]

82. Signs and wonders.

This reminds me of my grandfather's terrified obsession with backward baseball caps.
"But, what does it MEAN??"
Nothing, gramps.
Really.
Just a thing the kids are doing.
"But, still, what does it MEAN??!?"

[Psephos]

86. Cringeworthy to many, rookie mistake to others, and n.b.d. to some

IMO, anyone who knows much about the anti-democratic, fundamentalist, ruthless Saudi royal family would vehemently disdain bowing to one of those perfumed pukes.

I'm sure there are plenty of bigoted assholes around the world who got a kick out of seeing the black U.S. president take a bow to a light-skinned king. Not a very politically smart image to put in circulation.

[thewiseguy]

88. If he bowed then that was a mistake

[demokatgurrl]

90. At least he didn't have his head up the guy's ass

the way the Bushes did.

[dionysus]

91. and we should give a shit because......

:shrug:

[Marrah_G]

92. I thought he tripped, to be honest.

[Christa]

93. Oh FFS!!!

Don't we have more important stuff to talk about?

[AtomicKitten]

94. Apparently not but, hey, Bush did smooch a Saudi!

[opihimoimoi]

96. Much 2Doo about moot shit...typ of Pub Trouble Makers..always looking to denigrate...not help solve

Dem Party = always looking for Better

Pub Party = always nit picking and looking for "bad"

The Bullies want to make themselves look good by destroying others...Typ Bully Trait

[damonm]

97. Try shaking hands with someone significantly shorter than you...

You, too, will "bow".

As if it matters.

[shagsak]

98. Bowgate

He's got some nerve showing respect for leaders of other countries. :sarcasm:

Bush really did doctrinate the masses huh.

[jenmito]

100. As I posted on another thread-D@mn it-Gibbs was just asked if Obama bowed and he said NO!

He pretty much repeated just what the "anonymous source" said. There's VIDEO of him bowing and what's the big deal? Now this is being covered in the media. I just saw it on MSNBC in a segment named, "Obama's Apology Tour?" Now they have new ammo to keep this story going.