odd as it is to find myself advocating the middle ground,

[ulysses]

may I suggest that the "Obama must be impeached/Obama's made no missteps whatsoever" duality is a bit off?

Maybe, just maybe, he's already done good things *and* already done things about which he needs to hear from us (which he requested, if anyone needs reminding).

Anyway. Back to the bickering.

[Occam Bandage]

1. The problem is, people tend to see the duality as either,

"he's already done good things *and* already done things about which he needs to hear from us" vs. "he is a fucking sellout corporate failure and must be destroyed," or as "he is perfect and has never failed at anything" vs. "he's already done good things *and* already done things about which he needs to hear from us," depending on which side they fall.

[ulysses]

5. as I posted a while back, I blame a lot of this

on Bill Clinton, the experience of whose administration was a real eye-opener for a lot of us on the left. Of course, that's not fair to Obama, and the near-immediate calls to impeach make the left look ridiculous.

OTOH, he *has* made some calls reminiscent of Clinton centrism, and centrist reflex to criticism of these don't reflect well on the Blue Dog/DLC camp either.

[MADem]

2. There ya go!

I don't agree with everything he's done, but then, I probably should have gotten off my ass and run against him if I felt that strongly, shouldn't I have?

I'll give the man a little room. In the military, you get six months worth of the odd fuck up and "I didn't know"--as Commander in Chief, I'll give him that.

Most of the people griping here so viciously are doing it to avoid kicking their poor dog at home--they're not getting sufficient respect, they're henpecked, or bullied, or bedraggled, or bummed out. They're short on "actual lives." Getting into virtual arguments with total strangers makes them feel....ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's one thing to have a difference in policy, but the dramatic, sky-is-falling, impeach NOW!!!! posters are, well, completely full of shit. And we know it. The "Obama can do no wrong" people come out in opposition to these nitwits, and then the two camps call each other names all night. It's fucking idiotic. It lowers the quality of discourse here, too, more's the pity.

[ruggerson]

3. yep n/t

[high density]

4. Who is saying he's made no missteps?

However I do see a lot of people on the other extreme.

[ulysses]

6. you're not looking. n/t

[Two Americas]

7. who calls for impeachment?

I haven't seen anyone call for impeachment.

[Zodiak]

10. I have

But the uses were either to be facetious, or to rephrase someone else's criticism into a strawman.

Oh...for the record, I'm guess I am advocating the middle on this issue, as well. There are a lot of issues I applaud Obama for, but there are some issues where he is fundamentally dead friggin' wrong and I worry that these potential failings will open the door for the Republicans to return to power and our country will never return to sanity.

[Two Americas]

13. of course

Neither calling for impeachment, nor telling others to be quiet and refrain from critical analysis and commentary are good positions to take.

I am in the middle - however, I will always defend critics first and foremost whether I agree with them or not, over those who would defend anyone in power. I will also always speak out for left wing positions. I guess that is going to be heard by some as "tearing down Obama." I don't know how to avoid that or resolve the conflicts here.


...

[alcibiades_mystery]

8. I'm in the same boat with you, bud

Why won't these people let me be the radical I like to be?

:-)

[ulysses]

9. LOL!

The travails of a radical purportedly in power. :D

[bluestateguy]

11. I think you make a good point

I just wish that the people who have a beef with some decision Obama has made would express their disapproval or concern a little more politely and gently.

We are all on the same side and all have the same goals for America.

[ulysses]

12. "polite and gentle" has never characterized GD or GDP.

Ever.