Obama ran for office by promising us...

[SHRED]

...that he was going to place evidence and science ahead of ideology.

Apparently single-payer health insurance and prohibition on the most valuable plant on this planet are exempt from that promise?

---

[WhiteTara]

1. yep. He never claimed to be

progressive. Others made that proclamation for him. Sigh.

[SHRED]

2. getting back to my original point...

...I didn't say progressive and neither did he.

He DID say science and evidence OVER ideology.
Didn't he?

---

[WhiteTara]

10. yes he did

but to believe in science, it seems that you have to be progressive. Because that's not science we can believe in!

[AllentownJake]

3. Political Capital

Sorry, he never campaigned on Single Payer. Never. Ask any former Hillary supporter on this board they will tell you.

If things were going great right now we could probably do a hemp argument...I'd rather use that capital in the budget battle..at the end of the day...this is politics.

[wyldwolf]

7. Yep. He never campaigned on single-payer. And Krugman liked the Clinton plan better than Obama's

[SHRED]

22. never?

http://www.blackagendareport.com/?q=content/barack-obama-hypocrite-health-care-hater-single-payer

[wyldwolf]

23. nothing there says he ever campaigned on it (at least that I can see)

[WeDidIt]

4. You should learn how politics works

Seriously, dude.

Learn about it before you spout off about it.

You don't get everything you want. Politics requires compromise. I guarantee you, if Obama went after universal healthcare day one, there would eb at least another forty years with absolutely no meaningful healthcare reform as a result. If Obama went after legalization of cannabis, absolutely nothing would get done, the House and Senate would eb GOP controlled in 2011, and Obama would be impeached and removed from office before 2012.

[AllentownJake]

5. Exactly.

[TBF]

12. Repubs don't compromise. We can learn a lot from them on strategy.

Reagan never went for "compromise". He and the rest of the repubs draw a line far to the right and that's where they start negotiating. We might actually get somewhere if we would do the same on the left. Start with Kucinich's view on every single issue, and then go into the negotiations phase. If we start in the center we have nowhere to go but right. It is not up to Obama to do this, it is our job.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

17. Repubs are in the minority now.

And they would have been far sooner were it not for irrational fear post-9/11. They will continue to stay in the minority precisely for these values you admire in them.

[TBF]

19. They were in power roughly 30 years, with a bit of a respite under Clinton,

and that is how they did it. I honestly think we got Obama because people had enough sense not to put Palin anywhere near the white house. And, since we are the majority, why on earth would compromise be our first plan? We can push through what we need. You are simply refusing to understand how negotiation works - perhaps because your goal is really to keep the status quo.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

24. So "negotiation" is pushing through whatever you want?

Riiight.

And they were only in Congressional power for 12 years, and did not have contiguous, complete power during that span. We'd controlled Congress for how many years prior to that, using largely the same tactics we use now? Yeah, we had control of the House for 60 out of the previous 64 years.

If I don't understand "negotiation", you don't understand history.

[dionysus]

27. problem is, it not even the GOP. he has to "compromise" with 16 fake-ass dems in the senate.

:(

[TBF]

41. I'd agree with that assessment. n/t

[cliffordu]

25. Exactly. But don't worry, the haters won't stop the bullshit......

I just love the daily purity test that some "progressives" put Obama through on a daily basis.

[vaberella]

6. When did he EVER promise single payer?! n/t

[Captain Hilts]

15. He did not. And he needs to put it on the table to pull the debate left. nt

[liberal N proud]

8. Where does single payer fit in to the evidence and science ahead of ideology claim?

I want everyone in this nation to have health care as much as anything but just trying to figure out how the argument for health care fits into that statement.

[vaberella]

13. It doesn't...

No need to search for reason when there was none to be had.

[SHRED]

16. A capitalist health system...

...is based in IDEOLOGY ("free market") and it is an utter failure.

All EVIDENCE suggests that a single-payer insurance system would be more efficient and save lives:

http://www.pnhp.org/

[wyldwolf]

9. pragmatism is not ideology

[NightWatcher]

11. I also thought he was going to end the wars, all of them

To me there is no difference in losing loved ones to a war in Iraq and a war in Afghanistan.

Dead for no good reason is the same regardless of the geography

[vaberella]

14. Uh he is removing the troops...or is that ignored. n/t

[MadBadger]

28. And for the millionth time, you werent listening either.

[Uzybone]

33. Why did you think that?

He said repeatedly that he would escalate in Afghanistan.

[denem]

39. Ends all the wars? You didn't listen to a word he said.

I lost count of how many times he stressed Afghanistan in the primaries and GE.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

18. And a pony, right? (nt)

[cali]

20. there's evidence that it would be virtually impossible to pass legislation

enabling single payer. Or do you think that the Congress would actually do so?

[SHRED]

21. I understand

You make a good point.
I have years of frustration behind what I write.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

26. I believe that if it got to his desk, he'd sign it. But I do not think he wants to fight a losing

battle.

I'm not sure how I feel about that. Rationally, I realize that it doesn't do any good to lose political capital on something that is never going to happen. But emotionally, I can't help but be disappointed.

[MadBadger]

29. If single-payer were virtually impossible, imagine the chances legalization would be passed.

[TBF]

42. Congress will not do that willingly because they are complicit with the elites.

We will have to demand it on the streets or it won't ever happen.

[ecstatic]

30. Do you ever experience cognitive dissonance?

How do you propose the gov't deal with people who light up various substances which cause various diseases? Should anything go? I'm just wondering if people have put thought into what they want. I would love a universal plan (just got off the phone with my insurance provider and I think they're about to play games with an expensive claim I have, so believe me when I say something should be done about health insurance), but do you really think we can go to single payer without some form of restriction being placed on our activities/lifestyles?

[Romulox]

34. Pssst....cigarettes are perfectly legal--kill hundreds of thousands each year.

It's like talking about a "slippery slope" while looking up from the bottom of a crevasse! :hi:

[ecstatic]

35. They certainly are. But when discussing a single payer health plan,

how can we ignore the fact that the collective health of Americans is on the decline? In order to make healthcare coverage sustainable over the long haul, we would need to honestly consider curbing cigarette smoking, overeating, etc.

[Romulox]

37. When you imply that marijuana will be some special healthcare concern under UHC

while simultaneously ignoring cigarettes, your argument becomes so distorted as to be comical. That's what I'm saying.

"we would need to honestly consider curbing cigarette smoking, overeating, etc"

Well, you better criminalize KFC then. Same logic, but 100,000x more compelling. :hi:

[leftofthedial]

31. He never promised us that he wouldn't lie though...

[BlooInBloo]

32. The fucker promised me a fucking pony.

[kctim]

36. He IS placing evidence ahead of ideology

Progressive ideology promotes some type of single payer or universal, healthcare. Obama see's the evidence that that idea is not embraced by enough of the country yet.

So what's he do?
He keeps speaking of it, which keeps it as a Democratic battle cry, but he is also preventing the issue from becoming a Republican battle cry in 2010. After those elections, he will gauge the votes and see if then is the time to move forward with it. IF not, it becomes a huge piece of his 2012 run.

The man is smart and knows how to work the system. Just give him some time.

[Dawgs]

38. "Obama see's the evidence"

Where? I'd like to see it.

[kctim]

40. You can start with Bayh and his merry band of moderates

Are they doing it for their own political lives? If they are, the voters will get rid of them in 2010 and replace them with people in line with Obama....President Obama wins.

OR

Are they representing the people who voted for them? If they are, Obama knows forcing things on them could create another backlash against the party and then NOTHING will get done. Obama knows waiting a year or two for them to come around is a lot better than waiting 10+ years.