Would we want McCain to fail?

[txprog]

I wanted Bush to fail. Period. I wanted the economy to go into a recession, I wanted failure in Iraq. I thought Bush and friends were doing enormous damage to this country and the only certain way for Dems to win was by their abject failure. This came to be and the rest is history.

But if McCain won would I also route for his failure? A much tougher question in these difficult times. Certainly, knowing that McCain's success would likely bring about more Repulican rule, and the thought of that simply awuful Sarah Palin ever being President is a nightmare too horrible to even ponder, is reason enough to hesitate.

But if McCain had won, he would have had to govern from the center, work with the Dems in Congress or nothing would have gotten done. And if this meant finding solutions to the problems that plaque our country, actually solving problems, not pretending that they don't exist or ignoring them like most Replublicans, then it would be hard to route for failure.

Thankfully, this is only theoretical. It is fun, though, to watch the Repubs self-destruct even further, as they route for Obama's failure instead of providing anything that resembles an alternate vision as to how to solve the problems people really care about.

[FrenchieCat]

1. No, I didn't want Bush to fail, but I knew he would.

As for McCain, I never believed he would win, so I didn't lose any sleep over thoughts of "what if".

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

19. Same here

Chimpy was and is one of those people who might as well have "EPIC FAIL" tattooed on his forehead. It is just so blindingly obvious that he is a dumbass. You could beat on him with a ClueBat for 10 years and nothing would ever sink in. If the Chimp hadn't been born a part of the BFEE, but was otherwise exactly the same, he'd have wound up as the night manager of a Denny's in Mattoon, Illinois.

[The Hope Mobile]

39. Exactly!! he never had a chance of being successful but

I would've much preferred that over what he actually did.

If an administration fails, regardless of party, we all suffer.

Rush is an idiot (big news, huh?)

[ErinBerin84]

2. When Bush was elected

I actually did hope that he wouldn't be a complete disaster. I didn't want Iraq to fail (even though I was against the war) or a recession. Pat Buchanan was on MSNBC earlier saying that he hopes Obama's strategies in Iraq and Afghanistan don't fail, but he hopes that his domestic policies do because there is too much spending in there for him. That is a more palatable argument for me. The "tax cuts will save the economy" argument is bullshit, but if it magically worked, I would be happy that unemployment was down, etc. Though even though McCain would have to work with a Democratic house and senate, I have serious doubts that he would govern from the center.

[rasputin1952]

3. I had to chuckle when I read the OP...McCain did fail....

and miserably....:rofl:

[firedupdem]

4. As much as I hated bush when the election was stolen, I did not

want him to fail. I hoped he would do a good job. I was pretty sure he wouldn't but wanting failure is just not me.

[JitterbugPerfume]

5. in this economy?

are you kidding?

I didn't want Bush to fail , but I knew from the start that failure was his fate.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

6. I have always tried to want a good economy.

Iraq is a tougher deal... speedy "success" in Iraq would have led to more wars, but I cannot root for prematurely-dead Americans or a million prematurely-dead Iraqis.

I comfort myself that what I hope for has no effect whatsoever on what happens.

[Dying Eagle]

7. I wouldn't have wanted McCain to fail, but

its a forgone conclusion that he would have.

[zulchzulu]

8. McCain's message was "Let's continue to FAIL"...

...by voting 95% of the time for Bush's policies, McCain would have been continuing the Bush Failure Parade.

Would we want someone who didn't want to change the failing policies that lead us to fail not fail?

[Cant trust em]

9. I must admit, I had those thoughts about the war

but they were all those kind of spiteful, back of the brain thoughts that would never even leave my head. I certainly wouldn't be spouting them off on radio.

[Eric Condon]

10. It depends on what you mean by "fail."

Sure, we'd want him to "fail" if by that you meant "fail to implement a conservative agenda," etc. In the broader sense, I don't think we'd want him to "fail" in terms of ruining the country, but of course, to not "fail" in that respect, he'd have to implement policies that would be more liberal than he would ever actually put in place. So it really just has to do with our definition of "failure" vs. their definition of "success."

[karynnj]

23. Good distinction - example - he failed in his goal to privatize Social Security

[mvd]

53. Right - no one wants the economy to be in recession or to be mired in wars

But it's in the nature of the Repuke agenda.

[CJCRANE]

11. Wanting the economy to fail is a luxury I can't afford. n/t

[CitizenPatriot]

12. No, I'm not so self-loathing as to wish destruction upon myself or

my nation (not aimed at the OP but at the GOP). I loved this country too much to want to see damage done to her. I never hoped Bush would fail. I hoped he would get it together. I hoped someone would stop him (Iraq esp). I hoped he would be arrested finally, for crimes any leader should have been arrested for.

But to fail? No. I hoped that I was wrong and he was right in the beginning. Nothing made me more sad than being right about him. I wouldn't want McCain to fail, either. AFter all, once they're in power, you hope for the best if you're sane.

I really don't understand Rush and the GOP on this. If our ideology is wrong, it will fail on its own. In which case, we would need to seriously rethink our approach. In other words, I'm not rooting for something I know is bad and wrong, but it seems like they are.

I'm not too worried about their prayers, though. Remember how they prayed a hurricane would ruin the DNC and then....yeah. God is on to them, I fear.

[otohara]

56. Did "We" Really Have Any Influence on Bush Failure

no, we did not!

He did that all by himself.

We aren't that powerful.

[CitizenPatriot]

62. being the self-sustaining republican that he is

he ruined the country all on his own.

pulled himself up by his texas boot straps and brought the world down to its knees.

impressive.

[stray cat]

13. No - I don't want my friends and family to lose their jobs, houses, and savings

I don't care who is president - I don't want friends and family wiped out to spite the leadership.

[AllentownJake]

14. No, I would want him to be a good President

I'd rather my idealogy be proven wrong than for people to suffer.

That being said based on my analysis of his policies he would have been worse than Bush.

[me b zola]

15. Are you freaking kidding me with this OP?

This is a repub talking point, and you are by yourself on this one

And sorry, you're the first person that I have heard from the left who has stated that they wanted bush to fail, although this is the rw's response when rush's words are scorned. We hated bush* because we knew what he would and did do to this country. To wish him to fail would be to have wished harm not only to our own military, but all of the people in Iraq whose lives have already been at the very least turned upside down by bush*s policies.

[WinkyDink]

27. I wanted Bush to fail---FAIL at GETTING HIS WAY in INVADING AT ALL.

[me b zola]

65. Yes, but that is very different from the OP

The OP talking about having policies fail...that is what the republicans are using as a talking point for wishing President Obama's policies to fail...so that they can say that their ideology is better than ours. Is is set upon the premise that since Reagan's policies of giving the wealth to the rich has failed miserably, they want the to be able to say the same about Democratic/Obama attempts at leveling the playing field and having a more equitable society/government.

[otohara]

38. No One Knew Just How Much

Bush would fail back in 2000 when the Supremos handed him a stolen presidency. I remember hoping he'd fuck up just enough to sweep the GOP from power in 2004. But that didn't happen and waiting it out was the only option.

We sure as hell didn't wish he'd invade, occupy and kill over 100,000 citizens of a country who had nothing to do with 9/11.

This failure question by the OP has a whole new meaning after the Bush error.

[DoctorMyEyes]

16. Are you kidding???

WTF!?!? You wanted Bush to fail. "Period."

That is one of the most fucked up things I have ever heard of. I wanted Bush to NOT be such a fuck up. I wanted Bush to GO because he was such a fuck up. How could you possibly have wished this kind of pain and loss on the world? You don't sound like a dem - you sound like one of the crazy fucking selfish Nader supporters I argued with in 2000. Shame on you and any idiot of any political stripe that would wish such a thing. Asshat.

[txprog]

32. Give this some more thought

I do not wish pain and loss in the world, exactly the opposite; but if Bush and people like him "succeed" there will be much more pain and loss in the world in the long run than if they fail. Period. Bush and Cheney were dangerous and destructive. Period. How many more of them could this country and this world tolerate?

I am a proud Democrat, and, though a strong Gore supporter, I voted for Nader in 2000 only becuase I live in Texas. Had I known what would happen I never would have voted for him out of sheer principle.

I want only what is best for our country, and "asshats" like George Bush, Dick Cheney, and their pals are not that. How could you hope, or "route", or whatever, for success of such scoundrels?

[treestar]

17. No, we would just know that it would be a disaster for the US

Rushbo wants Obama to fail just so Rushbo can say he was right about his conservative economic theories. He doesn't care whether they are right are not, he just wants them to seem to be right so he can claim credit.

McCrook, like Bush wouldn't "fail" in that he'd get what he wanted. More wars, more taxpayer $$ flowing to the military industrial complex corporations, more flowing to the prison-industrial complex and the poor could just go off and "pull themeselves up by their bootstraps" while the rich enjoyed the "deserved" gain they got by "working hard" and "playing by the rules."

[karynnj]

18. I really really disagree - I never wanted Bush to fail on the economy or Iraq

Politically, given all he did I wanted him to fail.

In 2003, I remember a conversation in the car with my then senior in high school. She and her sisters had gone with us to DC and NYC to protest the possible war in Iraq. Yet on the day of the invasion, in tears, she said that she hoped that all the she was completely wrong in all she thought - that this could create an insolvable mess in an already volatile part of the world. I was intensely proud of the fact that she would rather be wrong and her political side "lose", than for the situation to be as bad as she correctly thought it would be.

Consider this question - if there were a "back to the future" type way where someone could go back and make Bush realize in January or February 2003 that he was well positioned to succeed in something that eluded his dad and Clinton. Iraq had agreed to very invasive inspections and had even destroyed missiles trying to avoid a war. This was exactly the reason leverage was given to Bush. The sanctions under Bush (for a year) and Clinton (for 8 years) had hurt the most vulnerable in Iraq and the world was moving to ending them. Given everything else Saddam agreed to, I would imagine that he would have agreed to some schedule of new invasive inspections that could assure people that Saddam was doing nothing he shouldn't - and in turn the sanctions would be lifted. (2004 would not have been close - no matter who ran. )

Now, this would give Bush the possibility of great political victory. Think Gorbachev - Reagan did not attack him - but Reagan credited himself with beating the USSR. That would work with his base and some independents. Now, consider what he could use to win other independents and even Democrats. What if he were then to say that the sanctions never should have lasted 12 years - and doing so hurt our moral standing in the world. He could also have argued that, like Teddy Roosevelt he spoke softly (but firmly) and carried a big stick. He could argue that the threat of force did what Clinton's bombing couldn't - also pointing out that it was in preparation for that bombing that the inspectors left - never to return. This would give Bush and the USA the moral high ground

Now we both know that other than an alien kidnapping the real Bush and replacing him - that would never happen. Bush wanted his war. But, that scenario (an expansion on the idea in a Friedman column where he hoped Bush was crazy like a fox, rather than crazy) would represent a huge victory for Bush - possibly of Nobel Prize level. Would you have been unhappy as it likely could have given him enormous political capital (and money) to enact an agenda? Or is this scenario so much better than the catastrophic failure that really happened.

[BzaDem]

20. This OP is disgusting. n/t

[alwysdrunk]

31. Extremely.

[JayMusgrove]

21. This thread question is very insightful.

No Democrat nor liberal would root for failure of a President, we would continue to voice our positions, work actively to inform and educate others, and try to influence congresspeople.

There seems to be a difference between Republicans in Congress and Democratic party members in Congress, and this question raised in this thread topic really brings out this excellent point.

[BklynChick]

22. why would you want the president of your country to fail? this makes no sense. I knew Bush would

fuck up but I kept hoping it wouldn't have the dire consequences it obviously has. This is wack.

[WinkyDink]

28. If the President had GOD-AWFUL POLICIES, why would you want them to "succeed"??

[BklynChick]

29. I don't think that's what the OP meant. Of course I didn't want Bush's awful policies to go through

But I didn't want him or this country to fail overall just cause a Rethublican was in office.

[txprog]

35. Of course.....

Who here could "route" for the success of a President who had the power and the votes in Congress to actually implement the things you mention? Anybody?

[txprog]

37. That's the whole point....

Nobody wants the country to "fail" but a country with no Social Security for old and disabled people has failed, so I would very much route for the failure of any President who wanted to end Social Security.

At some point, you just can't separate the two.

[ecstatic]

43. The timeline is key

I could see wanting Bush to fail at getting his ideas passed. That is one thing--but once the awful legislation is passed, all one can do is hope that the nation isn't destroyed as a result.

[NorthCarolina]

24. If it came down to:

Changes to our Nations Constitution to deny LGBT from full access to the American Dream...Yes, I would hope for failure;

Scrapping Social Security...Yes, I would hope for failure;

Appointment of additional RW Extremists to the Supreme Court...Yes, I would hope for failure;

Abolishing Medicare and Medicaid...Yes, I would hope for failure;

Further empowerment of Insurance Interests in our Health Care System...Yes, I would hope for failure;

Continuing an illegal war in Iraq for the benefit of War Profiteers...Yes, I would hope for failure...

There's more, but you get the idea. So, I'm just thankful that he *failed* in his Presidential run.

[FudaFuda]

25. The president is not the equivalent of the nation

Rush Limbaugh can go hoover donkey appendages for all I care, but his remarks are not 'treasonous.' They're offensive to me, but his oft-repeated wish for Obama's economic policies to flop is merely political dissent. Both sides of the political circus have their poster boy buffoons that gush their respective gospel.

[WinkyDink]

26. Yes, considering what his likely decisions would have been. I would want no-capital-gains-tax to

FAIL.
More war-profiteering for Blackwater, Halliburton, Bechtel, KBR to FAIL.
Delayed health-care coverage to FAIL.
100 years in Iraq? FAIL.

I would want the Democratic OPPOSITION to SUCCEED.

[rvablue]

30. It's "root" not "route" and NO! I don't want ANY President to fail....look at what happens when

they do! It's a disaster for people like you and me.

[txprog]

47. Yes, "root"...

I'm not that stupid really. But if success means that somone like Sarah Palin becomes President and starts WWIII at the behest of the neo-cons who love her so much, then.........

[rvablue]

48. Huh? Starting WWIII would be a failure, not a sucess.

This has obviously turned into a semantics game for you.

A nuclear war would be a failure not a success.

[txprog]

49. No game at all

If John McCain won the election and had a "successful" presidency - success of course is relative, as many consider Reagan a great success while most here would think him to be a total disaster. Let's define success as a tenure that included moderate governing with progress made on things you and I care about; and becuase of his success Sarah Palin was able to win election to the Presidency. If that were to occur and she started WWIII - she being the failure, but McCain's success having enabled her - would you still want McCain to succeed?

I know this is all hypothetical but I assure you this is not a game to me but serious stuff we should all consider.

[ellie]

33. No, I don't want a depression

and I don't want to see people suffer. But, if McCain won I would have like to have seen him marginalized and the Democratic majority in Congress call the shots. Thank god we don't have to ever find out what would have happened!

[Ganja Ninja]

34. Would there be a choice?

Quite frankly I give Obama a less than 50/50 chance of pulling us out of the economic flaming death spiral we're in.

[Renew Deal]

36. You'd have one or two idiots saying that here.

But they would be quickly reminded that it's a bad idea and a dumb think to say. I doubt any mainstream dems would say anything like that.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

40. No.

I did not want failure. Bush and Cheney are morons whose agenda was to destroy the middle class by using the far-right-bible-thumping asshats. It had FAIL written all over it. Iraq and Katrina - FAIL.

Never. To hope for failure is downright treasonous.

If McCain had somehow won, we would already be invading Iran. Would that spell failure? In my mind, yes. Palin as VP - that is FAIL. McCain wouldn't need me saying anything about failure, he would just do it on his own.

I wish Bush had been a good leader whose decisions had been thoughtful and logical. What I saw was neither.

[ecstatic]

41. You wanted the economy to go into a recession?

I don't know... I just don't think that way. Like most people here, we knew Bush's ideas were going to fail but that is different than WANTING him (and as a result this nation to fail). I knew Iraq was a horrible clusterfuck waiting to happen but did I want a clusterfuck? No! Iknew his tax policies were all wrong, but did I want this nation and the world to go into a global recession? Hell no.

[Jennicut]

42. No I would not and I did not want Bush to fail ever.I wanted America to wake

up to Bush's failures on Iraq and Katrina but I never wanted the damage to be done in the first place. Look at what Prez Obama has to deal with now.

[lame54]

44. We wouldn't have a choice

[FLAprogressive]

45. He would have done it anyway. nt

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Phx_Dem]

50. NO! Because if when the President fails, the country fails.

I think if Republicans said "we hope the health care initiative fails," that wouldn't be seen in the same way. I strongly disagree with that statement, but the Republicans can be against specific inititatives NOT RELATED TO THE ECONOMY without being against the President. But to say I hope the President fails, is the same as hoping the country fails or hoping the economy fails. I don't know how it could be read any other way.

The Dixie Chicks said they were ashamed the President was from their homestate. They never wished for him, or for the Iraq war to fail, and look what the radical right did to them! Fucking hypocrits.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

51. Want him to fail? No.

Expect him to fail? Probably- unless he seriously broke ranks with his fellow Republicans over certain things. I didn't want Bush to "fail" but I didn't really expect much more (or less) from him than what we got from his father. I basically expected him to be a somewhat mediocre (likely one-term) President. Of course, I didn't know how much GOD-AWFUL WORSE things would be with him either. :puke:

[mvd]

52. My answer would be yes. Because Repukes and Democrats have..

different perceptions of what success is. McCain's prosperous America would not be mine (you saw how much they changed policy when so many Americans not in the high class were suffering,) so I'd hope the country would consider him a failure.

[JuniperLea]

54. I hated being so right about Bush...

And I imagine the same would hold true for McCain.

Wishing failure on the head of the country is like drinking poison to make your enemy die.

[Uzybone]

55. No, I wouldn't want the US to become a 3rd world country (BUSH FAILED)

because we would all suffer and the entire world would suffer.

BTW ....Bush did fail, thats why we are in this mess.

[iamthebandfanman]

57. no, wed EXPECT him to fail... not hope and wish it. n/t

[santamargarita]

58. Why bother, he's done that already!

I just want these assholes go away and never be heard from again!

[PretzelWarrior]

59. wishing a president to fail is horrible. I never WISHED failure on Bush

I just wished he would have a second born again experience where he suddenly realized what a partisan, ignorant ass he was and he'd start doing the right thing.

But I wish him to fail now. I want the rest of his life to be a living hell.

[Danger Mouse]

60. Whatever is best for the country.

I would want McCain to do well, because if he was as bad as Bush, it would've killed what was left of America.

[burning rain]

61. I'd have wanted McCain to fail in...

his sick ambition to start a war with Iran.

[Geek_Girl]

63. I would have been praying for McCain every day and I'm agnostic

If he died we would have been totally screwed, with Palin

[Autumn]

64. Of course not,but he would have

and we would be totally fucked.

[IsItJustMe]

66. No. I fricken live here. You don't shit where you eat.

[incapsulated]

67. Amen. n/t

[ibegurpard]

68. Not if he was trying to do something

other than just degut more regulations and spewing out more tax cuts.

[camera obscura]

69. No.

[Raine]

70. I didn't want Bush to fail

certainly not after 911. I honestly wanted him to do good for the country and that's the fucking truth. I NEVER wanted this country to end up in the mess that it's in and anyone who does really is a traitor.

[Kaylee]

71. I never wanted Bush to fail...I hoped I would be proven wrong.

My hopes were that somehow the "surge" would work and our soldiers could come home. That he would use his purported "influence" over the Saudis to get lower gas prices so I could make it to work. That he really knew what he was doing on the economy so I didn't fear my company needing to layoff workers to stay afloat. No, I did not want Bush to fail because we the American people suffer the brunt of his failures.

That said I wanted him out of office because I didn't agree with one piece of policy he and his little minions forced on the country. Failure for any American president is not something anyone who cares about the people of the country would hope for.