how about a green stimulus that helps avoid foreclosures?

[unblock]

making federal buildings more green makes a nice statement but it does nothing for real estate prices or to prevent foreclosures.

now that obama has indicated a willingness to help homeowners in trouble, how about this:

if you owe more on your house than your house is worth, the federal government will heavily subsidize green home improvements to bring the value of your house back up to the level of your mortgage(s).

more & better insulation, solar panels, efficient hvac systems, whatever.


not only does this save energy for the country and the homeowner and put people to work, but it also creates a big incentive not to walk away from your home. this reduces foreclosures and increates property values, not just for the house itself but for the whole neighborhood (foreclosures hurt the entire neighborhood's prices).


sound like a plan?

[MadHound]

1. Great, so my tax money goes to helping out idiots who were foolish about their house purchase

Pump up the value of their house with green systems, while I have to struggle and actually pay to install such improvements on mine.

Sorry, but I have little sympathy for people who didn't do their homework, and instead bought an overpriced house with nothing down and an ARM. They were being either stupid, greedy or both, and I feel no need to bail them out.

[unblock]

2. if any of these fools live near you, then you're helping yourself

this is the way property values work.

no solution is perfect and there's certainly plenty of moral hazard in the bank bailouts. at least this would help property values, reduce foreclosures and mortgage defaults, which would help solve many of the problems that got us into this mess.

in case you hadn't noticed, these people are causing problems for ALL of us. it has nothing to do with whether or not they deserve our help, it has everything to do with the fact that we need to help them in order to help ourselves.

[MadHound]

4. Actually I live in a part of the country where property values remained fairly sane

So they have dropped little, if at all here.

Sorry, but when I'm struggling to make ends meet, I have a hard time finding sympathy who decided to try and live the high life and now that they've crashed they want some of my money for a bailout. This applies to both banks and individuals. This whole notion that we can't let certain sectors fail is a crock of shit. If a bank fucked up and put out too many of these idiotic loans, then they deserve to fail, and shouldn't be getting a bailout. Same with a home owner who was foolish enough to get an overpriced house on nothing down and an ARM. We've already tried one bank bailout, and it didn't do a damn thing except give them more money to play with and acquire. This next one looks like more of the same. And bailing out individual homeowners is going to do what, pump up the housing bubble all over again so that we can set the stage for another massive fall.

Sorry, but I don't believe in helping out idiots.

[unblock]

7. some people put 20% down and got a 30-year fixed and they're still underwater

prices have gone down enough in many areas that even responsible homeowners are screwed.

are they idiots, too?

very clever of you to happen to live in an area that has seen little price movement.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

3. I'm at HUD and we are working on this proposal as we speak

Green was taken out of the Senate version, then put back into the Conference version. Trust me, we are making a good case to keep Green in!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

5. This just came down the pike...

There aren’t many details in the conference report (HUD starts on page 84), but here are the HUD-related provisions:

DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT
PUBLIC ANDJNDIAN HOUSING


PUBLIC HOUSING CAPITAL FUND

The conference agreement provides $4,000,000,000, instead of $5,000,000,000 as
proposed by both the House and the Senate. This funding will assist public housing
authorities in rehabilitating and retrofitting public housing units, including increasing the
energy efficiency of units and making critical safety repairs. Of the funding provided,
$3,000,000,000 will be distributed to public housing authorities through the existing
formula and $1,000,000,000 will be awarded through a competitive process.

NATIVE AMERICAN HOUSING BLOCK GRANTS


The conference agreement provides $510,000,000, as proposed by the Senate,
instead of $500,000,000, as proposed by the House. This funding will rehabilitate and
improve energy efficiency in housing units maintained by Native American housing
programs. Half of the funding will be distributed by formula and half will be
competitively awarded to projects that can be started quickly.

COMMUNITY PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT

COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT FUND

The conference agreement provides $3,000,000,000, of which $1,000,000,000 is
appropriated for the Community Development Block Grant program and $2,000,000,000
is available for the Neighborhood Stabilization Program. This funding is provided
instead of the $5,190,000,000 proposed by the House. Funding was not provided in the
Senate. The Neighborhood Stabilization Program funding will assist states, local
governments, and nonprofits in the purchase and rehabilitation of foreclosed, vacant
properties in order to create more affordable housing and reduce neighborhood blight.

HOME INVESTMENT PARTNERSHIPS PROGRAM

The conference agreement provides $2,250,000,000, as proposed by the Senate,
instead of $1,500,000,000, as proposed by the House. Funds are provided to coordinate
with the Low Income Housing• Tax Credit to fill financing gaps caused by the collapse of
the tax credit market and to jumpstart stalled housing development projects, thereby
creating jobs.


SELF-HELP AND ASSISTED HOMEOWNERSHIP OPPORTUNITY PROGRAM

The conference agreement does not provide funding for this account. The House
proposed $10,000,000 for this account, but the Senate did not propose funding under this
heading.

HOMELESSNESS PREVENTION FUND

The conference agreement provides $1,500,000,000, as proposed by both the
House and the Senate. Funding will provide short term rental assistance, housing
relocation, and stabilization services for families who may become homeless due to the
economic crisis. Funds are distributed by formula.

The conference agreement directs the Secretary of HUD to submit a report to the
House and Senate Committees on Appropriations one year after enactment of the Act that
details how the funding provided in this account has been used to alleviate the effects of
the Nation's current economic recession and prevent homelessness.

HOUSING PROGRAMS

ASSISTED HOUSING STABILITY AND ENERGY AND GREEN RETROFIT INVESTMENTS

The conference agreement provides $2,250,000,000 instead of $2,500,000,000~
proposed by the House.

Of this amount,
$2,000,000,000 will provide full-year payments to landlords participating in the Section 8
Project-Based program, and $250,000,000 will support a program to upgrade HUD
sponsored low-income housing to increase energy efficiency, including new insulation,
windows, and furnaces.

OFFICE OF LEAD HAZARD CONTROL AND HEALTHY HOMES

The conference agreement provides $100,000,000, as proposed by both the House
and the Senate. Funding is provided for competitive grants to local governments and
nonprofit organizations to remove lead-based paint hazards in low-income housing.
Projects that were highly rated in 2008 competitions but were not funded due to
constrained resources will be the focus of these resources, thereby ensuring that the funds
are spent quickly and effectively.

MANAGEMENT AND ADMINISSTRATION

OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL

The conference agreement provides $15,000,000 as proposed by the House.


This funding will assist the IG in monitoring the use of these funds to ensure
that funding provided in this bill is used in an
effective and efficient manner.


GENERAL PROVISIONS

Section 1202 raises the Federal Housing Administration (FHA) loan limits for calendar year 2009 to the level set in calendar year 2008, as proposed by the House.

Section 1203 raises the Government Sponsored Enterprise (GSE) conforming loan limit
for calendar year 2009, as proposed by the House.

Section 1204 raises the Home Equity Conversion Mortgage (HECM) loan limit for
calendar year 2009, as proposed by the House.

The conference agreement does not include a provision as proposed by the Senate
regarding changes to the Hope for Homeowners program.

[unblock]

6. there's some cool stuff in there. thanks!

[Abq_Sarah]

8. There is always risk

Involved when you invest in real estate. I don't like the idea of the government propping up home values to keep them artificially inflated. They don't do that for any other type of investments.

[unblock]

9. on a long-term basis, and if real estate weren't screwing up everything else, i'd agree with you

what i'm suggesting should be temporary and linked to the unusual economic circumstances.

otherwise, if they're going to do something like that it should be uniform across all homeowners and a more modest discount.



that said, government has been subsidizing houses for ages through the mortgage tax break and other incentives, which has propped up values for a long time. the government also subsidizes other industries as well.