Susan Collins and Ben Nelson are working together to strip some of the spending out of the

[cali]

stimulus bill. And from the report I just heard on CNN, some of things they want stripped sound unneccessary to me. Collins said they want to limit the spending to things like infrastructure, help for the unemployed, etc. If there is pork in that stimulus package, I don't mind if it gets cut.

[camera obscura]

1. I agree we need more infrastructure spending, but I believe they want to cut the education funding

which is just bad IMO.

[cali]

3. education is non-negotiable and Collins didn't mention it in the list

she detailed.

[question everything]

2. Agree. Except, I think that infrastructure should be at the top of the list

We need this and it provides jobs at all skill levels, jobs that cannot be outsourced.

[Still Sensible]

4. There are some things in the package that

I don't think belong there. Some of the 6-8 noted on CNN last night I can argue for, but at least half of them don't belong in this legislation--it just gives the naysayers talking points. And every one of those can be brought up as bills on their own merits and will pass because the democrats have the votes... so it's all good. If the Senate is unwilling to pass the bill as sent over from the House, then they might as well go ahead and fix it.

[Hippo_Tron]

5. Benator's lack of party loyalty is troubling

Obama made his state 10 points bluer than it was in 2004 and this is how he repays him. If it were just Collins alone then she could be bought off. But the Benator/Collins alliance gives the opposition way more bargaining power than I'm comfortable with.

If I were Rahm I'd have a little chat with Benator. Kinda like this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXmRYJwK3wM

[Thrill]

12. And as usual, when ever that guy does something he brings Bayh, Baucus, and others with him

This is troubling. We had a liberals dream bill. Increases in Healthcare, Educations, etc....

[karynnj]

15. Obama did not "make" the state 10 points bluer

In 2008, the wrong way number was over 80 percent. In 2004, it was below 50. There was a shift over the entire country. This benefited Obama, as it would have benefited HRC if she were the candidate.

Nelson is acting according to his own values - the values which NE knew when they elected him. What he is doing here is doing his job. Whether enough Senators agree will determine if this stuff is removed from the bill. Many of the things that he listed did not sound, per his description, to be things that would stimulate the economy. They should never have been put into the package. Remember that even Obama agreed that inserting the payment for contraception did not belong in this bill. Wouldn't it be good to at least see what they do?

I think the idea of having Rahm threatening a Senator like that is one way to lose Obama a lot of the huge amount of capital he has.

[Hippo_Tron]

18. Nebraska was Bush 65 Kerry 33 in 2004, in 2008 it was McCain 57 Obama 42

Obama benefited from a shifting country but he also ran a 50 state strategy that focused on places like Nebraska, particularly the Omaha district which Obama won. Any way you swing it Obama's actions benefit Benator and all other Nebraska Democrats in the coming years. It would be nice if Benator would repay the favor by publicly supporting Obama's first major legislative initiative.

And I know that Rahm wouldn't actually threaten a Senator like that in real life. The West Wing is a fantasy of how we wish government worked.

[karynnj]

22. I was NOT questioning your math

The fact was that X running in 2004 would have done worse than Y running in 2008 - no matter who X and Y were. The fact is that Gallup released a study showing a major shift to the Democrats nationwide (in self identification) - in 2002 the majority of states were Republican. the shift started in 2005. In 2005, Obama was not a major force. I think all the Democrats are happy that we have a Democratic President. Many of them, including Nelson, who endorsed Obama early, helped him get the nomination in the first place - so the debt goes both ways. At any rate, all Senators have a responsibility to their state to do what they think is right. (At this point, Obama has not yet done anything to help Nelson retain his seat.)

It is NOT clear that Nelson won't support Obama's first major legislative effort. Now is the time when Senators are working on the bill - many Democrats and Republicans have either gotten provisions into the bill written partly in Finance and partly in Appropriations. In addition many had amendments offered in committee - if they are one of these two committees. Then there will be some amendments offered on the floor of the Senate. The Senate is a co-equal branch of the government and they have the right and responsibility to write and pass legislation. That is the process happening now.

First of all the bill they are marking up was NOT written by the Obama team - it was written by the chairs and others on the committees. There is a process for changes - which occur if there is sufficient support for them.

[Hellataz]

6. Help for the unemployed is NOT Pork. It's help for the millions of americans who need it.

Everyday more and more companies lay off people, flooding the job seeker market. There people don't want to be unemployed and live off unemployment, hell you can't, it's not much money compared to an actual job, but the majority can't help it because everyday they look for a job, they are competing with thousands more who just lost theirs. They need our help just as much as anyone. These are the people losing their homes on the verge of financial ruin. Why would anyone not want to boost the unemployment systems right now?

Edit to add, I re read the Op, and it's was unclear to me if you saying their choices are unnecessary or the money to those programs is.

[cali]

10. read it again.

Collins says she supports spending for the unemployed and on infrastructure. Perhaps I didn't make that clear enough. The spending she was talking about really did sound it didn't need to be in the stimulus package.

[karynnj]

16. Have they said they will cut this?

This was not in the examples Nelson gave on MSNBC.

[crimsonblue]

7. I disagree

I want this bill to be larded up with spending. Spending is the only way we can get ourselves out of this muddle. If we need to scrap anything, we should scrap all tax cuts. We need to increase food stamps, unemployment benefits, infrastructure spending, and consider adding in healthcare reform. Obama needs to look at this plan long-term. He needs to forget he is only President for 4 years, and develop a plan that will do more than his economic team's report (that the maximum effect would be seen in Q4 2010, and unemployment would remain around 7%). He needs to make this bill HUGE if it is going to have any possibility of actually working.

[karynnj]

8. If that is what they are really doing it would

be a good idea.

[Mass]

9. What does she call pork?

Projects that give jobs to people, even if it is not infrastructure? Education? Medicaid/Medicare? Help to the states? Help for payroll taxes? Everybody cannot work in infrastructure. If you fire a teacher, he is not going to become a construction builder.

There is no earmarks in the bill, and most of the things there either provide jobs or alleviate hardship for people. Now, if they want to cut taxcuts for the most wealthy and some for companies who do not need it, I am fine with that. Something makes me think this is not the case.

[cali]

13. There are things in the stimulus package

like $50 million for the National Endowment For The Arts. Now, I love the National Endowment for the Arts, but does that need to be in a stimulus package? Theres $600 million for the federal gov't to buy new cars on top of the hefty amount they spend on that every year. There's $150 million extra to the Smithsonian. Again, I love the Smitsonian, but I don't see that as critical in a stimulus package. There's a lot more that doesn't sound like it's vital in a stimulus package.

Collins says she supports spending on infrastructure and for the unemployed and expanding Medicare.

[Mass]

17. More money to spend by the administration creates jobs.

This is the point. Now, I do not know the details of these, but I know they want to cut a lot of things that make a lot of sense, as if people who do not work in infrastructure do not matter. How do you know what the money for the Smithsonian is? To make repairs that will get construction workers to work? To buy new equipments that will give work to people?

The goal is to start the economy again. And this will not be done by putting the money in tax cuts for the wealthy. There is only so much you can give. Infrastructure projects, though necessary, are not fast to start. So, I do not see anything wrong if some of this money is given to institutions that are projects ready to start and that will get some jobs either saved or created. I do not say I know all the details and may be there are things that could be cut, but I am not against the principle of these aides.

[Mass]

19. Among the things Nelson was thinking cutting this morning

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/01/29/senates-gang-poised-strike-stimulus/

And Nelson doesn't want to stop there. He wants to pluck out what he says are extraneous projects in the stimulus bill to pay for the amendment. Providing hundreds of millions of dollars for prevention of smoking and sexually-transmitted disease -- though they may be worthy causes -- does not create jobs. Nelson even is willing to remove popular Pell Grant increases, saving them for annual spending bills later in the year.

Of course, these are things that will get them a lot of demagogic effect but when you look at it, it is silly. At this stage, kids cannot go to college because they cannot find loans to pay the tuition. The state grants in MA are late, and I am sure we are not the only state, so may be it does not create jobs, but it helps people (same as medicare).

Here are a few arguments why they are wrong. We need to create jobs, not only jobs in the construction building area (Bob Reich was blamed for saying that a couple of weeks ago. He was damned right).

http://www.scienceprogress.org/2009/01/recovering-innovation-innovating-to-recover/
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/01/13/education-stimulus/

[Thrill]

11. Any time Ben Nelson is holding private meetings with Republicans. Democrats always lose

That guy pisses me off so bad.

You can thank him for the Bush Tax Cuts

[Cha]

20. Yeah, what's his agenda?

He was for the bush tax cuts and the War on Iraq which got us into this mess and now he's making sure his dino ass is grandstanding and acting all fiscally responsible..bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

[LostinVA]

14. Collins is a Repub but not a Freeper

She's more progressive tha Nelso, that's for sure.

[nsd]

24. Even so, it's too bad Allen didn't beat her. /nt

[northernlights]

21. we need spending on education, on 2 fronts

1. some people are unemployed because their industries are shrinking. Their old jobs aren't coming back and they need retraining for a new career.

I saw Chuckie Gibson tearing up on the news a couple weeks ago after interviewing "big, burly factory workers" who once built cars that are now in nursing school.

Well, health care training doesn't come cheap, it doesn't come easy, and it doesn't come quick. A mid-lifer retraining shouldn't be forced to take on debt that they will likely never be able to pay off in order stay alive. Seriously, based on mistakes made by my initial advisor (I'm using the word mistake loosely -- I think they were lies and I was duped) I will now be in debt for double what I expected and could be paying it off until my mid-70s or longer, to get through a 2 year associates degree program.

2. State universities are having budgets slashed -- and that includes Collins' University of Maine. UME-Augusta has a big nursing program plus med lab tech, both with waiting lists. They should be enlarging those programs and shrinking the waiting lists, to get people employed again, both teaching and potential health care providers.

[Pryderi]

23. THE PORK IS IN THE TAX CUTS! n/t