Is the GOP stupid or playing smart chess?

[Armstead]

The coverage of the last week or so about the stimulus process makes me wonder.

Are these guys (and gals) morons? Or are they smarter than they appear to be?

My gut reaction is to go for the stupid option. The country is hurting bad and needs help. And these idiots in the GOP are trying to block that help. They claim that they have a "better" plan, and they drag out their usual philosophical objections to Big Government, b;lah,blah.

But the perception is that they are living the the past. They haven't gotten the message from voters who are basically saying to Washington -- "Grow up you jackasses and stop playing your stupid political games."

The GOP doesn't seem to realize that they are fucking OVER. At least their former brand of trickle down, pirate capitalism has been exposed as the moronic con game it is. And their divisive strategies are not as successful now that they are in the minority.

But are they really smarter than they look? Do they know something we don't?

Inquiring minds want to know. Stupid or secretly brilliant?

[madaboutharry]

1. I don't believe they know something we don't.

I think they are stuck in a particular mindset, that they are provincial, and that they can not change. The most interesting explanation for their behavior comes from Arianna Huffington, who was at one time in her life a right wing blowhard. I find her story fascinating. To hear her talk of her own journey really gives you inside into what a bunch of retrograde assholes these people really are. They are the ones who are unpatriotic. They do not care about the well being of this nation.

[Armstead]

3. That boils down to stupid

I tend to think (hope) you are correct. They seem stuck in a replaying tape loop of a song that may have once been popular but is now hackneyed and out of tune.

[YvonneCa]

12. C-Span 3...

...had them in a press conference. They are doing the same thing they always do...block Democrats' ideas.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4936322

[athena123]

47. Huffington a former right-winger?

I did not know that Huffington used to be right-wing. 
Fascinating.  As a reformed right-winger myself, and now a
die-hard liberal, I understand the passion of those who have
had their eyes opened as adults and want to speak out on the
brainwashing we experienced in our "previous lives".

Where can I get info on Huffington's right-wing past?

[GentryDixon]

53. Arriana Huffington.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianna_Huffington

Welcome to DU athena123! :hi:

[tekisui]

2. They are banking on the total collapse and failure of the US.

They are hoping for failure, perhaps even working for it. Then, they can attempt their 'comeback'. They have no other way to gain politically, now. The Dems own any future success or turnaround.

[Enrique]

5. yep

it's their only hope.

[kenny blankenship]

22. They are also betting that Democrats don't have what it takes to call them out on it.

Unfortunately they could be correct about that.

[MadMaddie]

42. I think the Dems have a President that will instill in them the

fortitude to go toe to toe with the Repugs....all they have to do is follow his lead.

If they prosecute Rove that will be huge.

[leftynyc]

65. That particular message is

going to make everyone glad that Rahm is COS. He's a pitbull.

[Occam Bandage]

4. Look, here's the deal with them.

1. If they vote for it, and the stimulus is seen as successful, there's no political credit in it for them. Everyone will gush over how great the Obama recovery plan was, and forget that the Republicans went along, and they'll lose more seats.

2. If they vote for it, and the stimulus is seen as unsuccessful, there's no political credit in it for them. They can't blame Obama because they voted for it too.

3. If they vote against it, and the stimulus is seen as successful, they're in only a slightly worse position than they are in #1. People might vaguely remember that Republicans were obstructionist, but they'll mostly gush over how great the Obama recovery plan was, and the GOP will lose more seats.

4. If they vote against it, and the stimulus is seen as unsuccessful, then they can hammer Obama for "making things worse" and maybe even pick up some seats as they promise a "new direction."

Their only positive result, politically, is in voting against the package and hoping it is seen as a failure. Their best bet, actually, is to vote against it and then spend every day trying to convince people it is a failure. They've already started.

[Armstead]

10. Good analysis -- but very sad

One would hope that these people would -- at least for the moment -- forget about their political position and actually work to solve the fricking problem. If it succeeds they can claim they are part of the solution. If it fails....well, they'd at least be able to share the blame with Democrats and they could say "Well at least we all tried."

Their myopic focus on their own political positions will hopefully make them seem even more irrelevant to voters.

[zipplewrath]

17. Actually worse

They work quietly to get items in it that they want. Then they vote against it anyway. Afterwards they work to define success to be things the plan was never meant to address. Then, when it doesn't accomplish those things, they declare it a failure. Everyone suspects that there won't be significant improvement by early 2010 when the campaigning for the next election cycle begins, so they don't have to worry about too much "success" by then. In 4 years, any success will be credited to the ground work Bush laid out and the effort of the GOP to prevent the "worst of the worst" in Obama's efforts.


It's not what's real, it's what can be sold.

[Xolodno]

21. Let's also remember...

...that these are representatives, they don't need the whole state voting for them on the next election cycle, only their very republican districts.

If they vote for it and it only has modest success or is successful, but not so much in their district, another die hard republican could unseat them.

If they don't vote for it and its hugely successful, they are only going to get challenged by a moderate republican whose main attack will be the incumbent doesn't work well with others while the incumbent will say he doesn't compromise his values. His challenger will only be successful IF the attitude in the district shifts to be more moderate. Right now they are betting that won't happen by 2010, and I'd have to say that's a good bet.

Where its more dangerous to vote "no" is in the Senate. The entire state elects a Senator and therefore is more subject to shifts in attitude.

[uponit7771]

45. +1

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

6. Within their narrow range of goals, very clever.

The pugs are not looking to take over the government any time soon. They are looking to re-form their base 35% and are doing an okay job of it.

Even if it alienates the other 65% it's what they have to do.

The pugs have done a bang-up job of separating Obama (yeah!!!) from the Democratic Party (boooo!!!) which serves them and serves Obama.

Keep in mind, there isn't a presidential election any time soon. The pugs are building up Obama at the expense of the Dems who actually have to stand for election in 20 months.

They have a crap hand but considering the weakness of their position they're playing it as well as could be expected.

(People holding bad cards will always appear somewhat dumber than usual and someone holding four aces always looks like a genius. When you consider that talking about the deficit right now is like talking about unicorns they're sure done a good job of keeping that irrelevancy in the dialog.)

[Armstead]

If their strategy keeps them at 35 percent, I guess that's a good thing for trhe rest of us

[TTUBatfan2008]

7. Here's the deal...

They are banking on the fact that the economy won't improve over the next 2 or 4 years no matter what is done by the government, whether it be spending or tax cuts. Either way, they think things will continue getting worse. Their bet is that the American people have short enough memories to think this entire problem is Obama's fault. That is what they're banking on 2 years from now during mid-term elections, and 4 years from now for the Presidential election. I tend to think the American people do have short memories, but at the same time, it'll be funny to watch this blow up in the Republicans' faces when the stimulus actually works.

[Thrill]

8. They are stupid. But they are better at framing the message in media than Democrats

[pink-o]

56. And don't forget the media is run by corporations

...who're gonna be more sympathetic to Repig ideas than Dem populism.

Why the hell is Boner on MTP and McCain is still getting coverage? Why did Darth open the evil maw that is his mouth and talk to Politico, ultimately getting the MSM to cover what he said?

These people drove our country into the ditch, yet the fuckers in the MSM still validate them! No matter how we try to frame the message, it will continue to be tarnished by these useless propagandists.

[SidneyCarton]

9. The current GOP is a combination of cowards and ideologues.

The cowards realize that whatever they do they will be villified, so they follow the path of least resistance, and obstruct.

The ideologues are content to let the country burn as it has proven itself unworthy (i.e. elected Obama, put them in the minority) of the "glory" that is Neocon-ism. There is no strategy, all that is left is obstruct, cast aspersions, and hope like hell that things get worse, so that their own failures might be forgotten and give them a chance to return to the levers of power. It's a gamble, because if they are seen as obstructing a successful policy, it's back to another generation in the minority and irrelevance. But short of admitting the bankruptcy of everything they've stood for since Reagan, they don't have anything. So they cling to the skirts of St. Rushie, and continue to swear by the moldering corpse of St. Ronnie, all the time praying that Rove can save the reputation of St. Dubya, so that their dogma can continue.

Time will tell if their faith was justified.

[Life Long Dem]

11. Why did the drunken sailors all of a sudden become fiscally conservative?

The country is in the middle of one of the worst recessions in over 70 years. The government is the only one left standing to lend support.


That's not the question I'm currently asking. The question I'm asking is how patient will America be?

[AllentownJake]

13. They are a rudderless ship without a captain in a storm

They have no clue what to do so they are just going to say no on everything till they get a leader.

Right now Rush is filling the vacuum which is both pathetic and amusing at the same time.

[FrenchieCat]

14. "The ground has shifted beneath them" - Barack Obama, 1/20/09

[Me.]

15. I Think Obama Is Sheepherding Them Right Where He wants them

If some of them had been smart enough to vote for the bill the obstructionism wouldn't be so obvious, their strategy will backfire. The meme from the grassroots should be that the Republican'ts are the party of no. Every news report on this that I've heard talks about Obama's outreach and how not one of them voted for the bill. Right now the Obama team is compiling a list of how many people are unemployed in each state. The strategy is going to be to present the numbers and point out the no votes against people getting jobs. If they knew something we don't/didn't McCain would be pres. and we'd have a Republican't congress.

Edited to add this ad targeting the Cons: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/29/obama-allies-launch-ad-ca_n_162134.html

[lunatica]

16. Definitely stupid

Their rigid thinking patterns don't do well with the concept of change. It's not something that they can embrace because it means they must bend every so often with the tide and the wind. They're too stuck in the deep grooves of the same synaptic pathways they've had since Reagan.

[bullwinkle428]

18. Juan Williams said Boehner was doing a touchdown dance yesterday,

bragging about how he "kept the entire party together" on the stimulus vote! :rofl:

[kenny blankenship]

19. They have nothing left to lose.

They have spent the last generation at least telling America that we Democrats intend to destroy the country from within with Godless Soshulizzum. They have told America for generations that what we are attempting to do now to save America's bacon CANNOT POSSIBLY WORK.

They will be destroyed once and for all as a political party if we succeed, but they can save themselves if we fail.

I won't comment on whether it's smart or stupid strategy. Except to say that, although no one can know what the future holds, it's reasonable to expect the people will lose patience with recovery efforts before the next election rolls around. In the long run, America may be able to restart its economy on a less fictional basis than in the Reagan Era, but in the short run there's going to be more pain and frustration than anything we've lived through has prepared us for.

It's a gambler's all-or-nothing move from criminal minds. And it's exactly what we should expect from them today, and tomorrow, and the day after that -if there is one.

[zbdent]

20. one of their opening salvos in the 2010 race to take back the House and Senate ...

and the CEOs have their million dollar bonuses to sit on while they wait until the GOP gets back in charge 1/3/2011 ...

[AtomicKitten]

23. The last 8 years makes it clear they don't have the mental capacity to play chess.

Their bluster and bullshit tactic was backed over in the last election. Back to the drawing board. When I hear Rush Limbaugh is now perceived as leading the opposition, I am convinced they are truly in deep shit and won't see the light of day as a majority for a long, long time. Amen.

[Barack_America]

24. Other: Desperate. nt

[HillWilliam]

25. The only way they can win now is if

the last administration left built-in sabotage to the economy and they know about it. I wouldn't put it past either.

If full-scale, deep-digging investigations and purges don't happen soon, I shouldn't be surprised at anything that appears seemingly from nowhere.

Color me very wary of the GOP. They are cynical enough to burn the house down in a fit of "If I can't have everything then nobody gets anything" pique.

[Parker CA]

26. They are banking on the notoriously short-term memory problem most of the people

in the US have. If the stimulus doesn't work, they believe they win, and if it does work, they believe that in two years, when the country is at a completely different point than it is today, they will play off of the changed perception of memory of their contingent. It is a risky move based on old puke politics and mind-control of the masses, but they are betting the farm on it.

At the same time, they are presently betting against the best interests of the people, at least against the best interests of the 95% that will benefit from these stimulus programs and implementations as currently existing. Another hefty ante up on the table that is going to sink or float primarily on the success of this bill over the next year or so.

In the end, I see nothing new from the pukes, nothing that gives a sense they have come up to the current times and current methods of playing the political game. It could be their complete downfall, or, in stroke of bad luck for the country, they could end up taking this one at the last minute if the bill fails to accomplish the goals it is being implemented to achieve.

My gut says they are too many steps behind in the new game while at the same time using last season's playbook, double whammy to their potential success.

PS. Chuck Todd is a f-ing tool shed; hammers, rakes, shovels, and hedge trimmers all combined.

[Generic Brad]

44. And even if it works, they will claim it did not work

That is their M.O. and they are incapable of changing it.

[Joiwind]

27. Hoping Obama Fails Is Really, Really Stupid Politics

Its like betting somebody $500 that your neighbor is sleeping with your wife. If he isn't, you're out the $500. If he is, congratulations, you win $500 but you're still a cuckold.

If Obama fails, the American public won't turn to the Republicans. With 30% unemployment, food riots, shortages, brownouts, limited law enforcement coverage, we're supposed to become more amenable to the message of tax cuts and limited government? With our national sense of entitlement, we won't take kindly to becoming a big Honduras.

We'll be looking for scapegoats, and you can believe that the 45th President of the US will be one scary SOB

[Renew Deal]

28. They believe they're "not conservative enough."

Stupid

[pipi_k]

29. I vote "stupid" for one reason...

if they had a good solution they could have/should have run with it long before now.


Oh, and another reason they're stupid...I suspect they're hoping people forget that all this shit, however it started, happened on Bush's watch.

[Arugula Latte]

30. They've got nothin' and they know it, so they're going to be the biggest jackasses possible.

[Norrin Radd]

31. It's not chess, it's a hail mary pass.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

32. Chess?! More like "Go Fish" without a full deck.

[Harry Monroe]

52. Indeed, they are not playing with a "full deck"

I prefer to think of it as "Five beers short of a six-pack"

:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

[Bobbie Jo]

33. They're not even playing smart checkers.

King me. :eyes:

[Armstead]

34. Mebbe they should try 52 Pick Up

[ncteechur]

35. They have 3 notes and keep playing them over and over and over

even though they sound like shit.

[annabanana]

36. Naw.. They are on auto-pilot.. they have NO mojo left. . . . n/t

[Two Americas]

37. they don't need to be smart

They are relentless and ruthless, and will do much damage yet. They are just a front for the wealthy and powerful few, and do not need to be in office to advance their agenda.

So long as we are naive, they do not need to be very clever.

[depakid]

38. They're betting based on experience that the Dems lack the courage and political fortitude

to actively oppose them and put them in their place.

Thus, they can have their cake and eat it too- leaving the blame for failed policies due to the "consessions" from the leadership right at the Democrats feet.

By time 2010 rolls around, Obama supporters will become disillusioned at repeated capituations and sell outs to the right- and they'll stay home, rather than put so many boots on the ground.

It worked in 1994- and it'll work again this go round, as Democrats never seem to learn.

[ecstatic]

39. Stupid. They have never been clever, just loud and vile

We can see their filthy intentions coming from a mile away.

[Raine]

40. They're STUPID and

in denial, can't accept the fact that they LOST and we WON.

[MadMaddie]

41. $500 on Stupid....

They really are not that strategic in their actions or thinking.

[Cha]

43. Have a little faith in the Dems and

look at the record of the limbaugh sucking gopers, please.

[old mark]

46. I vote for stupid. They are dead and too dumb to fall down.

Most of them seem to think it's wonderful that Rush was designated their unoficial leader, which gives you some idea how far gone they really are.

mark

[ShortnFiery]

48. They're "LOUD and VILE" which worked when the economy was sound. Now their BUNK won't work.

It's time for a little justice = the GOP to remain "a minority party" for the duration.

[Jack Rabbit]

49. They're in a lost position. If this were a game of chess, I'd praise them for their guts.

They have nothing to lose politically by opposing President Obama, just as a losing chess player has nothing to lose by making it difficult for his opponent to convert the advantage to a win and even setting a cheap trap. The annals of master games are full of examples of "swindles" where a game turned around by the tenaciousness of one of the players or of the losing player waiting until the winner avoids that last trap to resign.

Unfortunately, the rest of us have something to lose and I wish they'd stop fighting on the wrong side of class warfare.

[nxylas]

50. They know something we don't

They know that THE RAPTURE IS COMING! HALLELUJAH! PRAISE BE TO SUPPLY SIDE JESUS!

[Harry Monroe]

51. Nah, just stupid

They won't attempt to grow a brain stem. They'll keep repeating the same tired mantras and use the same fear tactics. If it worked before, it's certainly sure to work again, right?? Unfortunately (for the Republicans) the American electorate finally grew a brain stem this last election. The Republicans haven't caught on yet. Maybe they never will. When and if they finally do, they'll be totally irrelevant.

Edited to add: (for the Republicans). It is fortunate indeed for the rest of us that people are finally learning to think in this democracy!!

[SIMPLYB1980]

54. Plain Stupidity. nt.

[Vinca]

55. The Republicans are very, very stupid. Their tax cut /deregulation orgy

is what got us into this mess and everyone knows it.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

57. neither, they just don't like poor people taking their money

[dbmk]

58. I was pondering that too..

But I honestly think they see two positions.

Loosing while giving in(that would be cooporating towards a common future to adults)
Or loosing while fighting, in the hope it will fanatizise the remains of the base.

I don't think they see their current strategy as a winner. But the lesser of two evils.

Or rather, I am not sure they see it as a strategy as much as it is their backbone reaction. They are petty by definition.

[lumberjack_jeff]

59. They weren't hired to play chess. n/t

[RoadRage]

60. From a Political standpoint - they're being Smart.

For the good of the country, they're being utterly stupid. We need a stimulous package, and we need it now.

But, the republicans know that 4 years down the road if this plan WORKS, then it's all due to Obama and the democrats. Even if Republicans are on board and are bi-partisian.. they won't get the credit for it.

So, they say that they're totally against it. They hope and pray that it fails miserably.. because it's their only shot to get back into power in possibly '10, but more likely '12. It's this or nothing...

And, frankly they don't have a better plan.. so it's far easier to just oppose this one - less risky that way.

Why do you think Bush & McCain were supportive of the first Stimulous package late last year? Because they knew they had no other choice.. and if McCain would have won this election - he'd be pushing through a similar package (but one with a lot more tax breaks for the wealthy, a lot more support thrown to lobbiests, and a lot more help for the religious fundy freaks).

[Numba6]

61. You lost me at "or"

[Phx_Dem]

62. If they were smart, they'd have some new ideas.

They don't. The only thing they know is partisianship and obstruction. They saw several of their own party members, including Ms. Lindsay Graham, complimenting President Obama and freaked out. They had to put an end to it because if President Obama succeeded early on in his bipartisanship building, he would be seen as a huge success and they couldn't have that.

No, they're not smart. They just employing Taliban-tactics, as they said themselves.

[ejpoeta]

63. they could be either, depending on the outcome.

they are hitching their wagon to the titanic. don't go on the lifeboat, the ship isn't going to sink!! the dems want to go in the lifeboats. if the stimulus works and it turns the economy around, then the republicans will look stupid. if it doesn't work, then they will look like geniuses...

[ShortnFiery]

64. Tone Death. They've been in "a bubble of POWER" for far too long. Power taken away: they go NUTS!

;)