So Ahmadinejad Wants an Apology.....

[Clio the Leo]

Perhaps I'm just a fatal optimist, but is anyone else encouraged by the Pres. of Iran's latest remarks to the Obama admin?

TEHRAN — A day after President Obama struck a conciliatory tone toward Iran, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad urged Washington on Wednesday to apologize for its actions toward his country for the past 60 years and said it was unclear whether the new American administration was merely shifting tactics or wanted real change.

But, in a speech in the western city of Kermanshah, he did not explicitly rebuff the American president’s gesture. “We are waiting patiently,” he said, referring to the policies of the new administration in Washington. “We will listen to the statements closely, we will carefully study their actions and if there are real changes, we will welcome it.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/29/world/middleeast/29iran.html?_r=1

Sure, it's not a "hey, I love you too! Let's do lunch!" but coming from one of our staunchest enemies in the world, this notion of "we MIGHT be able to improve relations" is a very good sign I think.

Improving our standing with nations around the world, the middle east primarily, was one of my main reasons for voting for Barack. And of course I'm thrilled with how this first week has gone.

[dipsydoodle]

1. "Might" is good indeed

as you so astutely pointed out.

[Captain Hilts]

2. His own people are tired of him and thumped his party in the '06 elections as we did GWB.

He needs to change his tune and without GWB in the White House, he has an excuse to do so.

But his own people are tired of his antics and erratic behavior.

[Lyric]

3. Is he going to apologize for this?

And other state-sponsored murders that are just as heinous?

Until he does, he can STFU. He has NO moral authority to ask our new President to piss on him if he was on fire, much less to apologize.

[Sultana]

25. Right On, Lyric

He needs to sit his ass down.

[cali]

4. not even a little encouraged. he's playing games. fuck him.

and yeah, yeah, I know he's not the person with the most power, but nor is he simply the figurehead some like to claim. And he's about as shithouse crazy a fundy as you can find.

[Lucky 13]

5. Really? I think Ahmadinejad is going to continue to be a total dick.

From the article:

“Change means that they should apologize to the Iranian nation and try to make up for their dark background and the crimes they have committed against the Iranian nation,” he said in the speech broadcast live on Iranian television.

The catalog of crimes, Ahmadinejad said, stretched back decades, beginning with American support for the 1953 coup that ousted the democratically elected government of Mohammed Mossadegh and installed Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlavi, who ruled until he was ousted in the 1979 Islamic revolution.

The list included the downing of an Iran Air Airbus A300, which was shot down by the U.S. Navy’s missile cruiser Vincennes over the Persian Gulf in 1988, killing 290. American military commanders said at the time that the passenger plane had been mistaken for an F-14 fighter jet, and defended the warship’s actions. America’s efforts to thwart Iran’s nuclear ambitions were also listed.

Mr. Ahmadinejad also questioned the United States deployment of forces in many places around the world, apparently demanding that the forces be withdrawn. “Who has asked them to come and interfere in the affairs of nations?” he asked, according to Reuters.

It was not immediately clear whether Mr. Ahmadinejad’s speech was Tehran’s definitive response to the Obama administration’s offers to open a dialogue.

Along with other governments, Washington is locked in a high-stakes dispute with Tehran over Iran’s nuclear ambitions.

Iran insists that its nuclear program is for peaceful, civilian purposes, but countries including the United States say Tehran is trying to make nuclear weapons that would upset the regional power balance and threaten Israel. American officials have routinely refused to exclude military action against Iranian nuclear sites."

Here's my take, for what little it's worth...

Ahmadinejad knows damn well that Obama is not going to apologize for ALL the perceived and real wrongs of the US going back DECADES.

He knows that the US isn't going to withdraw troops from around the world. The vast majority of the troops may withdraw from Iraq, but there will be a US presence there for some time to come. We will be INCREASING troops in Afghanistan. We will continue operating bases in Saudi and other locales in the region. I think he's going to use these things as further evidence of US "interference in the affairs of nations".

He knows that the US and other countries will not cease their objections to Iranian nuclear programs. Even if the US wanted to relent, Israel will not. And we're not going to undercut Israel on that particular issue.

SO... I think he's set these items (and probably others) as sort of "PRECONDITIONS" (Pres. debate deja vu) to further talks or negotiations with the US. "IF Obama doesn't apologize/withdraw troops from the middle east/stop preventing Iran from pursuing nuclear capabilities, THEN we will continue to be uncooperative."

The problem for him is that if this message from Obama has been received well enough by the Iranian PEOPLE, his refusal to play ball may lose him (further) support within his own country. But even if he DID lose support, do you suppose he will willingly relinquish power?

I think Ahmadinejad is going to be a tough nut (pun intended) to crack.

[TankLV]

31. I think he's ON crack...

[ericgtr]

6. I think he had say something because Obama is probably reaching his people

And the more he comes off against Obama the worse he looks to them. For this guy, that statement was very mild.

[Phoonzang]

7. Sure we'll apologize as soon as you step down and bring back the Shah.

:rofl:

[Downtown Hound]

8. We should apologize for the coup that we sponsored

and the overthrow of Iran's democratically elected government. And then for our support of the Shah for many years, and then for supporting Iraq's attack on Iran, and probably most recently for all of our covert operations against them. So, yeah, I think we've got some apologizing to do.

If we apologize for those things, and show that we're big enough to admit when we're wrong, we'd have much stronger legs to stand on when it comes to dealing with some of the nastier aspects of modern day Iran.

[leftynyc]

9. Do you think he'll really accept our apology

in the genuine sense. He's just trying to look good and has no interest whatsoever in getting along with the US. If our President apologizes, he can kiss his re-election chances away. And apologizing to a nation that hangs its gays would make me vomit.

[Downtown Hound]

14. Personally, I don't think most Americans would give a shit

if Obama apologizes for things that happened in the past. And you really shouldn't apologize for something in an attempt to look good. You should apologize because you were wrong about what you did. That Iran hangs gays is deplorable and disgusting, and has absolutely no moral bearing on the fact that we helped overthrow their government decades ago because it felt it had a right to decide what to do with their own oil.

Who cares what Assholeidad or whatever his name is really trying to get out of this? We should apologize for the things we did because they were wrong and we Americans should hold ourselves to a higher standard. If we made right action in the world like that our standard operating procedure, we probably wouldn't have so many enemies in the first place.

[leftynyc]

15. So first Obama would actually have

to educate the Americans as to why he's apologizing and then apologize for something he had nothing to do with. Yeah, that'll happen. I think it's much more relevant that country hangs its gays NOW. When they apologize for that and for the holocaust denial, then we'll talk.

[Downtown Hound]

18. Ah, I see

So you think it would be more productive to play a who's dick is bigger game? Iran has to apologize for hanging gays before we'll even think of apologizing for sticking their country with a dictator for decades? You first, no you first, no you first, no you first, that sort of thing? Yeah, that will really go a long way towards peace.

The kind of attitude your showing is one of the reasons why America is as hated as it is. The hypocrisy, the childish games it plays about making everybody else the bad guys, the enemies of freedom, while at the same time taking absolutely no responsibility for our own atrocities in the world. And we're only going to take responsibility for them under conditions that are favorable to us. It's that arrogance that breeds the animosity. My personal belief is that if we were to try and break that cycle, if we were to actually step up and be the grown ups we claim to be, then that that would do a lot more towards helping the gays in Iran than any bullshit posturing by us ever did.

[leftynyc]

21. I have no problem whatsoever

saying out loud in public that this country has made mistakes. But to pretend this call for an apology is anything more than a diversionary tactic by that laughable excuse of a human being is absurd. And our President has to do what is right for OUR country - that's his job. Apologizing to a country for past mistakes all the while they are CURRENTLY behaving like pigs to their homosexuals and have leaders questioning the holocaust is only going to piss off a lot of Americans. I'll be pissed beyond belief if President Obama does any apologizing to them.

[Downtown Hound]

22. We're not apologizing to their leaders

We're apologizing to their nation and their people. Sorry that concept makes you so pissed off, although I think it's rather silly that it does. You know, apologizing for your past mistakes doesn't make you weak, it makes you the bigger and the stronger over the one who won't apologize. You're right Barack Obama does have to do what's right for our country, and I think what's right for ours is to stop being hypocrites and live up to the expectations that we put down on others.

[leftynyc]

24. If I actually thought an apology

would be interpreted anything other than weakness, I would agree with you. Some people just can't be reasoned with and asking the leader of the free world to apologize to a country with a record of having leaders that make statements and actions like iran is doing NOW is madness and would infuriate most Americans.

[Downtown Hound]

26. Well here, allow me to propose a middle ground...

After all, that's what diplomacy is all about is it not? Here's what an apology could look like, if we just got past our fear of looking like a pussy:

"Too all the great people of Iran, who have a rich and proud history, the American people would like to extend a hand in friendship to you as a means of making this new day in America a new day for all people in the world. As Americans, we hold the ideals of individual freedom and civil rights to be the cornerstone to a successful civilization. Although we as Americans believe very strongly in these rights, we also would like to take the time to recognize that our actions have not always reflected these values. We hope that by acknowledging this fact today, that we can move forward in a spirit of greater understanding and cooperation.

To all the Iranian people, we sincerely apologize for all of the destructive meddling that we've done in the past in the internal affairs of your country. This meddling was done out of greed and an attempt to control your internal resources. We had no business doing these things and we are humbly sorry for all the pain and negative impact they have had upon your people.

One of the most distressing results of our interference, was the rise of the theocratic state in which many of you currently now live. This state continues to show disdain for human rights, the rights of women, and the rights of minority groups such as homosexuals. We are troubled by these repressions, because as Americans we support the civil rights of all. These issues continue to be a problem in the relations between our two countries, but in the spirit of what we hope will be a new day, we hope to engage the great Iranian people in dialog in the hopes that one day, all Iranian people will be free to live as they choose, and that one day they find it in their hearts to forgive us for our past wrongdoings in regards to their country.

We understand that there are many in Iran and throughout the Middle East that regard our concern about human rights in Iran as hypocrisy, given that in the past we have been prone to say one thing and do another. It is for this reason that we apologize to the Iranian people for our past actions, and we wish that one day they will be able to see that our concern for their well being is genuine. We hope that one day our two nations will be able to live in peace and share mutual respect for each other, and that one day all Iranians will be able to live in freedom."

See, it's really not that hard is it? All you have to do is get over your pride and the fear of looking like a coward. Apologizing for past wrongdoings is not only the right thing to do, but it can also strengthen your hand when dealing with a defiant enemy.

[leftynyc]

27. It's easy to write that because

it will never happen. No US president is going to use words like "greed made us do it". Not with Iran. The hostage crisis was not that long ago and I don't think it has anything to do with pride or fear. That's your spin on it. Maybe it'll be different when they don't have that asshole amadinijad around making things worse every time he opens his wretched mouth.

[Downtown Hound]

29. The hostage crisis was a direct result of our coup

in which we overthrew the democratically elected leader of Iran because he wanted to nationalize the oil industry. We installed the Shah, who was a dictator, and supported him while he raped his own country.

And the only reason why we'll never admit that greed made us do it is because of the attitude that you and many others are displaying now. You're more concerned with looking good than you are with doing the right thing.

Oh and by the way, it's hardly my spin on it. It's yours. You yourself expressed your worry that any apology made to Iran would be viewed as a sign of weakness. From this I can only conclude that not being made to look weak is more important to you than taking responsibility for your actions.

[leftynyc]

32. You're putting all kinds of words

into my mouth. You think getting on our knees and apologizing will get something done - I know it wont. It will be perceived as weakness and do NOTHING to help the situation - forget how it looks - IT WONT DO ANYTHING POSITIVE. I'm looking for results - you seem to want us to claim responsibility for everything and beg forgiveness - that will not go over with the American people. What do you think the President meant when he said to look forward? You want to do the opposite - make up for the past when it will do nothing to further the situation and could, in all likelihood, make things worse.

[Downtown Hound]

34. Yeah, I think we should make up for past mistakes

And until we do, this country will never truly implement the changes that it needs to.

[endarkenment]

10. Try to see this from the Iranian perspective.

It is always fun to hate Ahmadinejad, but he has a valid point here. We have screwed with Iran essentially non-stop since the end of WWII.

[Danger Mouse]

11. Oh we'll apologize to Iran, when they kick Ahmadinutjob out of office.

[enuegii]

12. Ahmadinejad may not be just a figurehead, but...

it's Ayatollah Khamenei, the Supreme Leader, who controls the military and is responsible for foreign relations policy. He also controls television and radio outlets in the country, so I guess any broadcast of Ahmadinejad's remarks would seem to have Khamenei's imprimatur.

[Dreamer Tatum]

13. Anyone who thinks Obama is going to issue an apology is on crack

The idea is to create in Iran the impression that they are being dealt with on an even, respectful playing field. The idiotic children running Iran have seized that idea and have stupidly attempted to claim the moral high ground. Sorry, Iran, but FAIL.

Maybe we'll look into an apology for (um, what, exactly?) the last 60 years when you apologize for what you dicks said *yesterday*
about the Holocaust.

[thewiseguy]

16. Will we also apologize for shooting down the Iranian passenger plane over open waters?

Or are we going to wait for AhmadiNejad to leave the office before we do so? :sarcasm:

Or maybe we are just too afraid of making Ahmadinejad look good!

[LittleBlue]

17. We owe the Iranians an apology for what we put them through.

9/11 was a walk in the park compared to what they experienced at our hands.

[tigereye]

19. yeah, but in other comments to Saudi heads of state he is encouraging them

toward jihad against Israel...


I wish saner folks from Iran would be heard from. He's a creepy example of the fascist wing of the Iran leadership... I can't think of him without wondering if he was one of the men in the early revolutionary days mentioned in "Reading Lolita in Tehran..." :(

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. Obama should apologize.

It's the least he could do.

[ecstatic]

23. oh gosh. Can you imagine the freeper and neocon/neolib outrage? nt

[Thrill]

28. Obama should just apologize

For not telling him to kiss his ass

[TankLV]

30. Dear Ahmadinejad: I'm sorry you're such a FUCKING WACKJOB IDIOT!

and I'm sorry you were ever born.

Sincerely,

Tanklv

[OwnedByFerrets]

33. The clinton administration already apologized for most of these things.

[Cha]

35. We'll

see..let's mark this.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

36. Indeed an excellent sign. Let's give peace a chance. It can't hurt.

[Phx_Dem]

37. How 'bout this? We're so very sorry that you're a fucking asshole

who can't respond in-kind to the outstretched hand of the most popular President of the United States ever. Way to represent your people. And for the record, we ask and we talk, but we don't beg.