My opinion on the Warren/Robinson controversy...

[mckeown1128]

First Warren. First let me say that I disagree with most of Warren has to say. He is sever ly misguided on his view of the GLBT community. But, the Warren pick makes sense to a degree. Obama had promised to reach out to the other side. Warren is a preacher on the other side of the isle who has been shown to be civil when dealing with Obama. (as shown during the election) It's pretty clear he is just going to stick to his 2 minute generic prayer as opposed to run his mouth off like that idiot McClurkin.

Now where people are going wrong on this in my opinion...

1. People seem to not realize that reaching across the aisle means having to deal with someone you DON'T actually agree with.
2. He is there to do a two minute prayer. Warren will not be talking about that aspect of his views that people find offensive.
3. If you are offended at the sight of Warren...leave the room for two minutes... turn the channel.
4. Obama hasn't rid himself of Warren because it is Obama's inauguration. We are all guests...
5. Obama's job is policy. This will not effect policy. It isn't Obama's job to avoid all people that any particular person may deem offensive.

But I can understand that some people don't agree with these facts. That some don't want Obama to reach across the aisle. Some feel entitled to determine who is at the inauguration or not.


What I don't understand is the Rev. Robinson controversy. This is where I find logic is thrown right out the window.

First off, the people who say Robinson was some type of "bone thrown to the LGBT community" have no actual evidence of it. There are the following misconceptions:

1. They think the Warren thing is a bigger "scandal" than it really is. The political blogosphere is a small segment of society. Some LGBT posters may feel that they represent the main stream of the LGBT community...but that doesn't make it true. As it stands, there is zero evidence that the majority of the LGBT community is offended and bothered by the Warren scandal. I'm open to seeing a poll or study on the matter if anyone has found one.

2. There is no evidence of Robinson being some type of political payback for the LGBT community. None. It's all opinion by those who feel slighted by Warren. In my opinion considering that Obama hasn't removed Warren seems to me to be evidence that he clearly doesn't agree with the people about the Warren scandal. The truth is no one here has any evidence that he picked Robinson for any reason other than just giving a 2 minute prayer. Making claims without proof is irresponsible.


Now finally, the Robinson snub controversy.

1. Almost no one outside of the blogosphere knows Robinson's sexuality... why exactly would they try to hide him then? It doesn't even make sense.
2. Not everything from the inaugural festivities is going to be filmed... it is and has always been an event focused on those who show up. If you want to see everything (live) you should go to DC. Some of the events are put on TV and some aren't.
3. You can in fact watch the prayer on youtube.
4. It's not a screw up that it didn't happen to be shown on TV live since no one here has any evidence that it was some type of "political" decision to have Robinson pray in the first place.
5. Some are upset that not everyone got to see the prayer... well just like Warrens prayer it was just that... a prayer. Considering few know who Robinson is and even fewer know of his sexuality it doesn't send any kind of signal to people out there in favor of the LGBT community.
6. The cut mic thing is petty and I suspect only mentioned by people desperate to make this scandal bigger than it is. No one has any evidence that someone was up there turning the volume out on purpose. Why would Obama do that if there was already a plot (with no evidence of course) in place to not film it?


The biggest problem with both of the controversies is simple. Sometimes a prayer is a prayer. This isn't a popularity contest between the left and right wing community. Obama doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. His support of the LGBT community will be in his policies.

Lastly I'd like to say something in my defense. No I don't hate LGBT people. In fact I happen to love a few. I fully support gay civil rights (Marriage too). I am not trying to demean anyones feelings with this post. I am just putting out my opinion that there is zero evidence for many of the claims being made by people. It is insulting that I have to declare my support of the LGBT community before disenting from others on this topic. The insults being thrown around at people are disgusting.

[dsc]

1. then why did Obama's own website imply, strongly, that the prayer would be televised

why did they leave that up?

[mckeown1128]

14. Do you have evidence of this claim?

I'd love a screenshot of his website saying that Robinson would be filmed on live telivision.

[dsc]

21. Here it is

Note I said implied, not stated.

2:30 p.m. - The Lincoln Memorial
President-elect Barack Obama with the help of an all-star line-up of talent will kick off the inaugural celebration in Washington, D.C., with a free and open event at the Lincoln Memorial, between Constitution Avenue NW and Independence Avenue SW on 23rd Street.

Musical performers scheduled for the event include Beyonce, Mary J. Blige, Bono, Garth Brooks, Sheryl Crow, Renee Fleming, Josh Groban, Herbie Hancock, Heather Headley, John Legend, Jennifer Nettles, John Mellencamp, Usher Raymond IV, Shakira, Bruce Springsteen, James Taylor, will.i.am, and Stevie Wonder.

Among those reading historical passages will be Jamie Foxx, Martin Luther King III, Queen Latifah and Denzel Washington. The Rt. Reverend V. Gene Robinson will give the invocation. Rob Mathes will be the music director and arranger for the backing band, which will support all of the artists. Additional performers will be announced as they are confirmed.

The Reflecting Pool area, JFK Hockey Fields and Constitution Gardens are open to the public and space will be available on a first-come, first-served basis. Doors open at 8:00 a.m.

end of quote

http://www.pic2009.org/page/content/weekendschedule/

previously this page mentioned the HBO coverage but that is not there now as the coverage happened. The clear implication of this text was that Robinson would start at or after 2:30 and thus be part of the live coverage. There is literally no one else mentioned in this text who wasn't on that show.

[mckeown1128]

25. See.. that page clearly shows directions...you know for people...

to go live to see it.

Did the HBO coverage part mention that ALL of the days events would be covered?

[Political Tiger]

30. Please! There's no implication there

other than Gene Robinson will give the invocation!

[mckeown1128]

33. Umm... he did give the invocation...

and those that followed the map and showed up got to see it. There was no promise that Robinson in particular would be filmed.

[dsc]

34. every single solitary person on that list

was on our TV's except Robinson.

[mckeown1128]

36. So you think it was some kind of plot against Robinson?

Or could it just be that they didn't film the 2 minute opening prayer and just jumped in on the music and movie stars.

[dsc]

38. which team Obama would have known and should have told us

Had there been one word saying before the coverage Robinson will give the invocation. But it isn't there. It is clear that they chose to leave the clear implication that he would be on TV when they knew full well he wouldn't be.

[mckeown1128]

39. It's silly to expect them to list every detail on a page giving

generic directions to the event witha brief listing of what will happen.

[dsc]

41. five extra words

you are kidding right. If this was some small detail why the press release when Robinson was named?

[mckeown1128]

57. You have a copy of press release? I'd like to see it.

not that it makes much of a difference. You and the few others here who seem to imply that this was a direct snub are being petty and small. Seriously, if you wanted to see every single bit of the inaguration activities you should have gone there. The concernt was primarily for those who showed up...thus the huge map with directions on the page you linked.

[dsc]

61. actually I can do one better

This thread points out that according to Obama it was always intended to be broadcast. The words you are looking for is sorry I was an ass. Somehow I won't hold my breath.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8108028&mesg_id=8108028

[dsc]

68. Gee what a shock

no answer and I know you posted since I did.

[Political Tiger]

27. "imply, strongly?"

LOL

How did they "imply, strongly" this?

And what would be the point to ""imply, strongly" that Robinson's prayer would be televised only not to televise it?

I mean, let's get real here for a minute! Not everything that happens is some grand conspiracy against gay people! There's no secret or overt movement by Obama and his people to snub gay people, which should be obvious simply by the inclusion of the Washington DC Gay Men's Chorus.

[dsc]

32. It was a live event starting at 2:30

every single, solitary person mentioned on that list, save Robinson, was in the telecast and did their role after 2:30. One, count it one, single solitary person wasn't on the TV. Yes, I think the clear direct meaning of those words, coupled with the coverage notes that were later removed, was that Robinson would be part of the concert and therefore televised.

[cali]

2. The furor raised against the bigot Warren

and the diminishing of Robinson's role, are good things. They keep the pressure up on Obama, and that's vital to ensure that he doesn't backtrack on his promises.

[mckeown1128]

11. That seems logical...

But it doesn't seemt that is everyones motivation in the matter.

[Lyric]

64. Says you.

How arrogant is it to blithely assume that you have some kind of prescient knowledge about what other people's intentions are? I like our new President, and I also think he seriously sucks on gay issues. Do I fall into your Eeeeevil Ulterior Motive conspiracy too?

:eyes:

[HughMoran]

3. .

:hide:

[Critters2]

4. You used an awful lot of words to say "STFU". nt

[mckeown1128]

13. Nope.. you can make as many posts as you want on the subject...

this is just my opinion.

[Solon]

5. Oh fuck, Warren isn't misguided, he's a fucking homophobe! Why the fuck is it so hard to say that?

Seriously. :wtf:

[Marrah_G]

7. because the OP is "misguided"

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Marrah_G]

6. Your views on the GBLT community are pretty well known.

Karma.

[mckeown1128]

9. Umm no they aren't....

You have no clue what my views are. You are just practicing slander by implying something you have no evidence of.

But I'd expect that from you. Slander is all you have going for you.

[Maven]

12. We've all seen the way you've behaved and what you've said on this issue.

Please stop pretending you have ANY credibility as a supporter of GLBT rights.

[mckeown1128]

29. Yes go for the homophobe line just because I disagree on...

the Warren scandal.

Just insult. There is no need to have an adult conversation on things.

[Lyric]

65. Who called you a homophobe?

I see implications that you're an insensitive ass, but homophobic? I didn't see that anywhere in the post you responded to.

I remember you well from the McClurkin fiasco. Your "opinion" then wasn't any more admirable (or coherent, or relevant) than it is now.

[Marrah_G]

16. Yes they are. We are not blind or stupid.

Your posts pertaining to anything GBLT are offensive, condescending and insulting. Perhaps the mods will remedy that again soon.

[Zuiderelle]

67. Umm yes the are...

[Maven]

10. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, and it's obvious you don't give a shit

HRC wrote a letter to Obama expressing offense about Warren. HRC. If that isn't the "mainstream" of the gay community, there's isn't one.

The fact that you think Warren is merely "misguided" about GLBT people speaks volumes about you.

[mckeown1128]

17. Edited with a clearer understanding of this particular use of HRC..nt

[Maven]

19. HRC is the Human Rights Campaign

Why don't you look up who they are before you opine on GLBT issues? Start with the basics. :eyes:

[Solon]

20. HRC equal Human Rights Campaign, but you knew that, didn't you?

Don't be so fucking dense. :eyes:

[mckeown1128]

22. I really didn't know what you were talking about lol.

thanks for clarifying. Well they can write a letter all they want...I still think this controversy is overblown.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Marrah_G]

23. Hint: HRC doesn't stand for Hillary.

http://www.hrc.org/

[QC]

15. "I am not trying to demean anyones feelings with this post."

But you are, Blanche! You are!

[mckeown1128]

18. yes how dare I disagree with people...

I should just shut up for fear of offending others.

[Marrah_G]

24. No- you should try acting lik e a decent human being to your fellow DUers.

You should avoid any post having to do with GBLT matters since you are not capable of responding in a non offensive manner.

[Solon]

28. Decent human being? The OP? Surely you jest, that is far too much to ask of them!

Just saying...:shrug:

[mckeown1128]

31. I listed my opinion...

Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it is insulting.

Grow up.

[Marrah_G]

35. Your opinions ARE offensive

[mckeown1128]

37. No they aren't...

I doubt you care anyway.. you just troll my posts to insult. Literally every single one of them.

[Marrah_G]

48. Your words ARE offending others.

No I am not stalking you. Stop crying about being a victim please. Up until a few hours ago you had been on ignore for months. I've responded to your offensive posts on this topic today.

Why is it so impossible for you to just avoid a topic on which you have been told over and over that your opinion is offensive and insulting towards a minority group, by that very group.

[mckeown1128]

58. I agree the few people offended by my words are a very small miniority...

that has nothing to do with the LGBT community.

And you do stalk me. And every time you claim that you just so happened to have taken me off ignore. We have been through this crap before. Just go away. Your petty and immature.

[Marrah_G]

62. You are quite a disgusting little liar.

You go on with your childish little delusion that I think enough about you to stalk you.

You keep on living in your delusional little world of bigotry and hate.

I hope you stew in it and I look forward to Karma kicking your ass someday.

Back on ignore you go.

Taking you off it was a huge mistake.

I hope the Mods see what a fucking antagonistic asshole you are and TS you for good.

[JimGinPA]

40. Arguing With This Small Group Of Posters Who Have Always Been Anti-Obama...

Is like running on ice.

K&R

[mckeown1128]

42. Yeah.. a few of the usuals are at it...

I do think though that many are legitimately upset. I just don't agree with their reasons.

[NJmaverick]

43. Very well said and you hit upon the key.

"This isn't a popularity contest between the left and right wing community" The vast majority of DUers that have been screaming treat DU like some sort of peverse popularity contest, where intellectually honesty and right and wrong takes a back seat to the number of posters that agree or rec your ideas.

[nichomachus]

44. Nice try -- I'll give you a D+

1. People seem to not realize that reaching across the aisle means having to deal with someone you DON'T actually agree with.

Dealing with people and honoring them are two different things. I try to deal with my asshole neighbor. I'm actually quite nice to him. I did not ask him to be best man at my wedding.


2. He is there to do a two minute prayer. Warren will not be talking about that aspect of his views that people find offensive.

And that's the problem. WHat he believes is offensive. He will hide that during his prayer, leaving him with an aura of respectability he doesn't deserve. I suspect there will be people here on DU tomorrow afternoon, fawning over his "magnificent" prayer. What they will ignore is the fact that this is a job interview for him and he will be on his best behavior. He wants to be America's Pope and he will blow smoke up our collective asses. Remember, the cardinal principle of the radical religious right is stealth. They pretend to be one thing until they get into power and then they morph into their true selves.


3. If you are offended at the sight of Warren...leave the room for two minutes... turn the channel.

The point isn't whether I hear it or not. The point is that this bigot gets exposure and an honored position before the country and world. My going into the other room won't change that.


4. Obama hasn't rid himself of Warren because it is Obama's inauguration. We are all guests...

Actually, it's our inauguration. He happens to be the guest of honor, but in a democracy, it is our inauguration.,


5. Obama's job is policy. This will not effect policy. It isn't Obama's job to avoid all people that any particular person may deem offensive.

Again, no one is asking him to avoid Warren -- just not to position him as the first person the world will see and hear once Bush has left office. When the Bush travesty ends and the "change" begins, the first words we hear will be from one of the biggest bigots in the country.

Let me repeat an analogy I used on another thread the other day.

Imagine you are a woman who got into an abusive marriage. After eight years of constant abuse, you finally dump the bastard. You finally find a guy who you really like and who is really sweet. He asks you to marry him and, hoping to put the previous eight years behind you, you agree. You are as happy as can be -- and then your new husband asks your abusive ex to give the toast at your wedding. How would you feel?

[jenmito]

50. You wrote: "Let me repeat an analogy I used on another thread the other day."

"Imagine you are a woman who got into an abusive marriage. After eight years of constant abuse, you finally dump the bastard. You finally find a guy who you really like and who is really sweet. He asks you to marry him and, hoping to put the previous eight years behind you, you agree. You are as happy as can be -- and then your new husband asks your abusive ex to give the toast at your wedding. How would you feel?"

Your analogy only works if BUSH is giving the invocation.

[nichomachus]

51. No

it is the religious right who has been abusing us too

[jenmito]

53. I'm just talking about your analogy. The ex-husband=Bush. The new husband=Obama.

Warren would=one of the ex's friends who also happened to be a mutual friend of the new husband (Obama's) whether we like it or not (and I don't.)

[tbyg52]

54. Thank you for taking the time and trouble to explain this yet again.

A well-reasoned post with which I completely agree. :applause:

[mckeown1128]

59. I think you are being dishonest...

Giving that prayer is hardly some huge honor. 99% of the country couldn't tell you who did the prayer for Clinton, Bush, Bush Jr, etc...

Your trying really hard to make it something its not.

It is Obama's inauguration. He could just hold it in a freakin closet in the capital building. He decided to hold it outside with camera's rolling. It is your choice as to whether or not to watch it.

Obama ran on a platform of reaching across th aisle. That is what he is doing. Don't' act surprised. I'd much rather him reach across the aisle with stupid gestures like letting a republican do the 2 minute generic prayer at his inauguration instead of him reaching across the aisle during something important like designing gay rights legislation.

Look at all the exposure Warren is getting do to everyone going on and on about it. If everyone would just chill then no one would remember in year who did the prayer.

[nichomachus]

60. You're being dishonest

The Boston Globe had a huge story about Warren today -- as will a lot of other papers. A lot of people will know who gave the invocation -- primarily because Warren is an expert as self-promotion. He's the one who started calling himself "America's Pastor."

Once again -- I don't care if he meets with Warren, consults with him calls him in the middle of the night -- but to put him on a pedestal as the first voice we will hear from the Obama administration signals a serious lack of change.

You can underplay Warren's appearance all you want, but the fundies won't, Warren won't, and the MSM won't. Anytime they need a "religious voice," Warren will be the go-to guy. We will be so sick of seeing his bloated face on TV by 2010 it won't be funny.

Tomorrow will install him as "Pope of America," replacing Billy Graham. Warren will milk that for all he's worth.

[Bluenorthwest]

45. Let's stick to facts, shall we?

Let our words be clear, direct and true, our yes be yes and our no a simple no.
To begin, you are incorrect in thinking Robinson and his sexuality are known to few. He is the center of a great controversy in the Episcopal Church, and every memeber of that church is very aware of that fact, as is Rick Warren, who has sided with those who want to leave that chruch because of Robinson, just in the last week or so. Why play with these facts? If you don't know the facts, learn them before making them up out of whole clothe. A very well known man. You say many times that 'few know him'. That is simply not true. You say 'even fewer know' he's gay. Again, not true. Simpley false. Made up stuff.
I'm a bit tired of reading people state they know what Warren will say and do, down to the time length. It has yet to occur. Can we at least agree that none of us know the future, and speak accordingly?
On a more subtle note, characterizing this honoring of Warren as reaching across the aisle is just that, a characterization. To then spin that into a claim that those who do not want an anti-semetic, homophobic political activist like Warren to be given a place of honor do not want to work with the opposition at all. A very disrespectful leap on your part. I personally actually work on occasion with Republicans on some issues. Always have. But only when they are right, and I do not laude them as humans and people for being right once in a while. I do not call them friends. I work with them on certain goals. I know the difference between reaching out and pandering from actual practice.
So in short, you have many false statements in your OP, and that is simply unacceptable. The rest of your what not I leave unadressed.
But much of your OP is untrue fantasia, not based in reality. So many who wish to defend rotten things seem to need untruths ready in their quivers, and that pattern is getting old and tired.

[Hanse]

46. Seems to me it's a simple contrast.

Warren gives the invocation at the beginning of the ceremony. Representing the last 8 years of Bush.

Lowery gives the benediction at the end of the ceremony. Representing the next 8 years of Obama.

[bluedawg12]

47. The right wing understood “it was more than a prayer,”

it was affirmation and acceptance of the GLBTQ commuity nationwide and worldwide, or was intended to allow us to think it was part of the same and equal broadcast as enjoyed by others.

But even if not one soul had ever heard of openly gay Rev. Gene Robinson, his words during the prayer would have let the cat out of the bag.

”Bless us with anger – at discrimination, at home and abroad, against refugees and immigrants, women, people of color, gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people.” -Rev. Robinson, the prayer that was never broadcast nationwide or world wide.

The right wing was mobilized and understood that he was openly gay.

Rick Warren knew he was openly gay and claimed he was on Robinson attack list over “gay marriage.”

Dr. GaryCass - Christian Anti- Defamation Commision sent out emails and blogged about boycotting the festivities when gays were on.

The word spread through the right wing like wild fire and they mobilized, I mean, outreached.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=115242&mesg_id=115242
"Inaugural Warning: Rated P for Perverse"

>>The Flamboyant Homosexual Inaugural

Barack Obama's inauguration will have the dubious distinction of being the most perverted in our nation's history. Obama is not being subtle about either. One of America's most radical and destructive homosexual activists, "Bishop" Vickie Eugene Robinson of New Hampshire, in official inaugural activities will be offering the invocation at the Lincoln Memorial.

Robinson will be appearing with the Gay Men's Chorus of Washington D. C. which forces all Christians around the world to compromise their character if they want to watch the inauguration. <<

..........
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com /

Rick Warren to the Rescue of Anti-Gay Anglicans
Timothy Kincaid
January 11th, 2009


Well now it seems that Warren wants to meddle on a local scale.

Last week, the California Supreme Court found that the current leadership and congregation at St. James Parish in Newport Beach could not just walk away from the Episcopal Church and take the buildings and property with them. This left those discontented with the Episcopal denomination without a physical home.

The Episcopal Church is hoping that the physical ownership of the site will remove leverage from the local anti-gay activists and will allow for this congregation to be again a part of the fold.

But it seems that this does not fit with Warren’s agenda. He is encouraging the congregation to stay in discord and is offering the assets of Saddleback to keep the pot bubbling.

Christianity Today has extractions from letters written by Warren:

<snip>
But since last summer… I’ve been on Gene Robinson and other’s attack list for my position on gay marriage . …. brothers and sisters here at St. James in Newport Beach lost their California State Supreme Court case to keep their property.


We stand in solidarity with them, and with all orthodox, evangelical Anglicans. I offer the campus of Saddleback Church to any Anglican congregation who need a place to meet, or if you want to plant a new congregation in south Orange County.

Rick Warren has, in so many words, declared war on the Episcopal Church.

It is one thing to take an anti-gay position based on one’s theology. It is quite another to encourage schism in another denomination.

It is now time for the Episcopal Church to make a formal protest to the President Elect. Rick Warren cannot invoke blessing on a nation if he is seeking to divide a denomination of which he is not even a part.

Further, the ECUSA should be joined by every church body sharing the belief that those who seek discord should not be given a place of prestige. I do not doubt for a moment that Rick Warren will endeavor to bring about splits in the Presbyterian (USA) and United Methodist denominations if he is left unchecked.
............

[tbyg52]

55. Right you are.

It's the usual - one set of rules for them, another for us. But it's usually the R's who are trying to enforce this.... :cry:

[grantcart]

49. "Almost no one outside of the blogosphere knows Robinson's sexuality"

You may want to reconsider this statement.


His evelation to Bishop was a major news story and has launched a deep division in the Episcopal Church. There are sermons being preached in Africa about him as the controversy has taken on a global life.

[1776Forever]

52. Personally I believe your post was not constructive - But you have the right to post it.

I believe that the choice of Warren for the invocation issue and the 'not showing the Rev. Robinson issue' are two totally different things. I have seen no placing of "blame" on PE Obama people anywhere accept on this post for what some are calling a snub by the media on Rev. Robinson's invocation. Most were disappointed that HBO decided not to broadcast it and I believe that is with good merit. The Rev. Warren invocation will certainly have a front stage broadcast I am sure.

What people are missing here I believe is the fact that there are many hidden agendas that Rev. Warren is doing this for. If you have been keeping up with things you know that he is trying to establish himself as 'the next Billy Graham'. These are not just my thoughts, all one has to do is Google 'Rick Warren next Billy Graham' to find many references to this. What is not known more widely are things like this:

Rick Warren gave President G. W. Bush a PEACE award in Dec. 2008 from his activist movement.
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/12/13/17915/243

Rich Warren had an IRS tax judgment changed in Congress in 2002 by President Bush.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090202/wiener

Rick Warren churches in Africa that use PEPFAR faith-based money are using anti hate filled GLBT language, along with telling women to stay in abusive relationships even if their husbands beat them.
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2008/12/19/untold-consequences-rick-warrens-aids-activism

and more on PEPFAR faith-based money here:

Democrats Seek to Investigate Funding for Faith-Based HIV/AIDS, Abstinence Initiatives

http://www.thebody.com/content/art38996.html

December 5, 2006

Some Democrats on the House International Relations Committee said they want to investigate funding for faith-based HIV/AIDS and abstinence-until-marriage initiatives receiving money under the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief to determine whether taxpayer money is being used appropriately, the Boston Globe reports (Kranish, Boston Globe, 12/4). PEPFAR in 2007 is scheduled to be reauthorized amid debates over abstinence-only programs. Although members of the Democratic Party in general approve of PEPFAR, some oppose its abstinence funding requirements. By law, at least one-third of the HIV prevention funds that countries receive through PEPFAR -- a $15 billion, five-year program -- must be used for abstinence-until-marriage programs (Kaiser Daily HIV/AIDS Report, 9/8). Rep. Barbara Lee (D-Calif.) last week said she wants the committee to follow up on an October article in the Globe that reported the Bush administration "has given 98.3% of faith-based foreign-aid money to Christian groups."

............

There are many other things that are going on with the Rick Warren issue that you did not bring up that are very important and should be kept in the light. I believe Rick Warren is going to try and be a big force for faith-based money in the future and I and you should be totally against it if you are a true progressive.

[Occam Bandage]

56. "Almost no one outside of the blogosphere knows Robinson's sexuality."

His elevation to the bishopric very nearly caused a schism in the worldwide Episcopalian church. The church came very close to splitting in two. It was a huge news story.

[RadicalTexan]

63. Inviting Warren to speak is no different than inviting someone who thinks being black is a "sin"

nt

[Zuiderelle]

66. I can see you spent a lot of time writing all that nonsensical crap. Thanks for the insults.