No, you DON'T have a good reason to be cynical.

[TheWraith]

This is the line of defense I've been hearing so often from DUers who are bound and determined to destroy Obama over anything they can, cast him as a right-wing shill, as homophobic, sexist, anti-this-and-that, pro-war, capitalist pig, and generally just the same as Bush. "I've got good reason to be cynical."

No, you don't. You don't have any excuse to be cynical. You're acting like Obama's responsible for the disasters going back years when he's not even in office yet. You're acting as if Obama didn't have a long record of being out ahead of these issues, from the war to the mortgage crisis. You're acting as if there was any reason at all to think that Obama isn't going to spend his first hundred hours furiously signing executive orders undoing things that Bush did over the last 8 years.

This is cynicism, shellshock, and a collective Cassandra complex left over from the Bush years, nothing more.

[BlooInBloo]

1. Obviously you're a dissent-stifling lockstepping nazi.

:P

[cliffordu]

47. Goddammit, you beat me to it....

:rofl:

[rug]

2. Bookmarked.

[Runcible Spoon]

3. read up on your myths, dude.

Cassandra's curse, at least as in the most commonly known version, is that her prophesies were never believed, but they were nonetheless TRUE.

Nice attempt at trying to sound intelligent and well-read, though.

[IndianaJones]

6. no comment I guess. nt.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThomCat]

15. Cassandra's curse seems to be common

among activists. How often can we be right and yet always be beaten down and ignored?

How often can the people who are wrong insist that they are the smarter, more credible ones?

[TheWraith]

20. As the paranoia lovers here believe about themselves. nt

[leftstreet]

4. I've never heard anyone here call Obama a 'capitalist pig.' Until now.

Or homophobic or sexist.

:shrug:

[Name removed]

5. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sniffa]

9. Oh, you again

:hi:

[Starry Messenger]

10. Someone needs a hug.

[sagetea]

11. Meh...

[Two Americas]

12. nonsense

No one is trying to destroy Obama. I think what many are worried about is having their illusions about Obama threatened.

Those illusions are not important, and will not do anything to help the administration nor to face and overcome the growing crisis. People are of course free to indulge in a cult of personality - and certainly Obama is a brilliant and capable man and if anyone should have such a cult it would be him - but trying to replace real world political realities with that and demanding that everyone do that is extremely destructive.

The hero worship you are espousing and demanding is destructive to the future success of the administration, and unfair to Obama. It is also divisive here.

I support Obama. I want him to succeed. I think the greatest danger to hos success is coming from his most zealous admirers. Suppressing dissent will leave Obama high and dry, and make it very difficult for him to make the tough decisions he is going to have to make, and rob him of potential public support.

Let him do his job as a politician and give him a chance. The job is to listen and respond to the people. Our job is to speak out. Let us do our job. That is how things work in a representative democracy.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

13. No, people are acting as if Obama is a human being

Obeisance, blind trust and hagiographic panglossian sophistry are servile qualities at odds with the best traditions of American citizenship.

[Runcible Spoon]

16. what a wonderfully slippery vocabulary you have!

I read that post several times, it felt good! :applause:

[leftstreet]

19. 'hagiographic panglossian sophistry' ...it..it kinda turns me on

:blush:

:rofl:

[cliffordu]

50. Yeah, I kinda got worked up, too....

[TheWraith]

18. As as paranoia, casuistry, intellectual dishonesty, and strawman arguments. nt

[rpannier]

86. Actually it would be intellectually dishonest

you use...as. So therefore it would be, "...as intellectually dishonest..." is the correct grammar

I don't know about casuistry since I've never heard of the word

[chill_wind]

81. I think I'm in love! :-)

Quite the fine retort.

[OwnedByFerrets]

14. Oh, ty for TELLING ME what I can and cant do...how did I get

through 52 yrs without you.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[racaulk]

22. Here, lemme give you this.

It will help with the stirring.

[ThomCat]

23. What an arrogant post..

"You haven't give Obama enough of a chance to be wonderful yet, and you're overreacting, so shut up."

:eyes:

[rpannier]

87. That's pretty damned clever

I like it

edited to add:
:applause: and :rofl: :applause: and :rofl: :applause: and :rofl: :applause: and :rofl: :applause: and :rofl: :applause: and :rofl: :applause: and :rofl: :applause: and :rofl: :applause: and :rofl: :applause: and :rofl: :applause: and :rofl:

[TankLV]

120. HA! That's PRICELESS!

and spot on analysis of the OP...!!!

[LeftyMom]

24. You should be charged for the search party needed to extract you from PE Obama's ass.

Jesus H. Christ, you need help.

[Marrah_G]

89. o.m.g

:spray:

[Skittles]

25. oh gawd

overreacting much?

[HughMoran]

26. Right on target

[Skittles]

27. this kind of shit on DU is extremely discouraging

it's like they want us to be like freeper goose-steppers who think bush can do no wrong

[HughMoran]

28. Nobody thinks that

Only a moron would interpret the O/P in such a fashion.

[Skittles]

30. oh bull fucking shit

[HughMoran]

31. ok

You've been really angry lately!

[Skittles]

35. it's nauseating, people constantly telling others how to feel

accusing them of fake outrage - it's disgusting

[HughMoran]

36. Doesn't bother me. I'm an adult.

Nobody can make me feel anything.

[EraOfResponsibility]

39. Skittles, isn't, obviously. n/t

[Skittles]

41. I'm very much an adult and I live in the REAL fucking world

[cliffordu]

48. I dunno.......

Your screaming at me lately has a juvenile tint about it.....


:shrug:

[Skittles]

54. it's YOU'RE, not your

[cliffordu]

55. Well,

Thanx!!!

Except you're wrong as usual.


Your screaming is your responsibility......

[TheDoorbellRang]

58. Actually, it WAS "your" in that sentence.

:P

I feel like I'm in that Monty Python skit:
"I came here for a good argument."
"No, you didn't!"
"Yes, I did."

[cliffordu]

59. Well....

:rofl:

Great bit.

[Skittles]

60. LOL

I remember that one! :rofl:

hey check out this conversation with my mum

Me: you're starting to sound like a Monty Python woman

Mum: (screeching) THEY'RE NOT EVEN WOMEN ARE THEY? THEY'RE MEN IN BLOODY FLOWERED HATS! (thereby proving my point :o)

[TheDoorbellRang]

62. I can remember when they first got popular

Some of us would be crying, we were laughing so hard. And then there were those who merely looked confused, wondering what we found so funny. I suspect those who were not amused by Monty Python grew up to be conservatives. ;)

[tblue37]

77. No, it's "your screaming." "Screaming" in that post is a gerund, and it must be preceded by a

possessive, which acts as an adjective modifying the gerund. (A gerund is the "ing" form of a verb used as a noun.)

Examples:

I saw Jim swimming.

In that sentence "swimming" is a present participle. The "ing" form of the verb here is used to modify the noun "Jim."

BUT

I admired Jim's swimming.

In that sentence, "swimming" is used as a noun. It is a gerund, and it needs the possessive form of "Jim" to modify it.

Similarly,

They were subjected to Jim's screaming.
They were subjected to his screaming.
They were subjected to your screaming.

[cliffordu]

80. I like a du'er with mad English skeels...

:hi:

[tblue37]

83. Actually, I am a mad DUer with English skills. Heh.

You might enjoy one of my websites: Grammar and Usage for the Non-Expert, at http://www.grammartips.homestead.com/index.html

[cliffordu]

100. Thank you!!!!

[TankLV]

121. Opps! It's "your" the possesive, NOT "you're" the contraction or "you are"...

it seems YOU are mistaken here...

[dionysus]

95. you SERIOUSLY need some anger management courses...

:rofl:

[Skittles]

40. this is a political discussion board

interracting with people who cannot stomach any kind of criticsm is getting old

[HughMoran]

43. Et tu?

You're a hypocrite.

[Skittles]

53. you're completely missing the point - as usual

[HughMoran]

66. Of course I am

I'm not crazy - it's everybody else in the world.

[EraOfResponsibility]

44. I can stomach criticism. When it's valid. When it's fictional and made up

no, I can't stomach it.

[Raineyb]

128. Don't you mean you can stomach criticism when you've deemed it worthy?

And when you don't it's fictional?

At least that's how I read your comment.

Regards

[TankLV]

122. I thought it was a grammer class...

it's a floor cleaner!
no - it's a desert topping!
actually it's BOTH!

a desert topping AND a floor cleaner!

[HughMoran]

124. Sand is a floor cleaner?

:rofl:

[EraOfResponsibility]

32. No bullshit, nobody thinks that

[Skittles]

34. bull fucking shit

[EraOfResponsibility]

38. Your stubborn insistence on believing that makes you as asshole-ish as the Freepers

People like you think that acting just like the Freepers makes it alright, but it's not.

[Skittles]

42. LOLOL

get over yourself :rofl:

[mkultra]

67. bingo

dont hit to close to home or they will go into complete meltdown phase.

[last_texas_dem]

29. If you follow politics, you have good reason to be cynical.

[phleshdef]

33. Many were cynical that he could get the nomination, many were cynical that he could beat McCain...

I think Obama has been very good at creating a track record that goes against the cynical grain. We will find a departure from the sins and incompetent policies of the Bush years under President Obama. I have no doubt about it. And I think the cynics will have quite a bit of egg to wash off their faces once he is given a chance to put his hands on the wheel, so to speak.

[HughMoran]

37. I agree completely

Obama doesn't telegraph his punches - unlike what some impatient people want.

[EraOfResponsibility]

45. Exactly n/t

[Runcible Spoon]

46. dammit so many comedic gems disappeared into deleted subthread ether

:cry:

I STILL want to point out that the OP is a chronic offender who posts flamebait and then disappears. I actually DID get a response, but it was pretty abusive and went down with the subthreads. :evilfrown:

[racaulk]

49. I hope you missed the "child abuse victims" response in one of those deleted subthreads.

I've seen plenty of ad hominem attacks on DU lately, but that one took the fucking cake!

BTW, you were on fire upthread before your posts were deleted. Thanks! :hi:

[sniffa]

56. I missed it all

Shame

[Sebastian Doyle]

57. And some replies were deleted that weren't comedic at all

Only 100% accurate in their assessment of recent appointments to this incoming administration. I'm not going to waste the effort of typing it all in again on this shitpile of a thread, but it's absolutely unacceptable to me that some assclown who names himself after a bug-person from a shitty science fiction TV show can tell me what I can or cannot say on this board.

[HughMoran]

69. "can tell me what I can or cannot say on this board"

lol - your paranoid objection is much funnier than anything posted to date.

[MasonJar]

51. If Obama is destroyed, he will do it to himself by going too far right.

We have had it with the right. We were promised change.

[TheKentuckian]

70. There is more than one way to skin a cat

and change doesn't always mean polar opposite of what you have.

[asdjrocky]

52. What a silly OP.

We now have a candidate in office that has to at least appear to listen to us. It's time to get our liberal agenda heard, and if we have to do some agitating to make it happen, that's just fine with me.

[Zuiderelle]

61. Every single thread you've started in GD:P for the past month is the same bullshit:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8070113

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8067074

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8026049

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7995621


Don't you have anything else to gripe about besides the same stuff over and over?

Try to learn another tune, before you're booed off the stage.

:eyes:

[sniffa]

63. One of these threads is not like the others

Any guesses?

[racaulk]

64. Is it the one thread that the OP actually participated in?

As opposed to the other "drive bys?"

[sniffa]

72. Ding!

:thumbsup:

That one reply.

[TankLV]

123. I don't care or want to - I did my SAT's DECADES ago!!!

and I don't care to re-live them, thankyouverymuch...

[Solon]

65. You remind me of a broken portable CD player I once had to fix...

See, the screw that moved the laser head had a hair stuck in it, so the CD player only played track 1 of any CD, and on repeat as well. It was annoying as fuck, glad I was able to fix it, however, I'm no brain surgeon, so I doubt I could do the same for you, unfortunately for the rest of us.

[Marrah_G]

90. I think I love you!

[mkultra]

68. Exactly, some people only know how to bitch

Despite wanting a patient and intelligent president who approaches things carefully, they really have not interest in being the same way themselves.


We all knew Bush was a douche so it was safe to assume his moves had hidden motives. Now, the fringe just do it for everyone becuase they never get a fringe candidate. If they did, they would probably try to destroy them as well.

I think the motto is:

Once mainstream, must move on.

[NYC_SKP]

71. I rec'd this thread based only on who wrote it, who was for it and who wasn't.

I don't even have to read 'em anymore to know what's going on.

Recommended.

[Creideiki]

73. Looks like an awl to me.

Seems like it would be really useful in a lot of situations, but in the long run is only good for one thing.

[NYC_SKP]

74. Precisely.

My avatar hearts your avatar.

<<<--------------Ginny!

[Vanje]

76. Yay for your team!

[CakeGrrl]

82. +1. It's gotten to the point that

You really don't have to read all the posts anymore - all you have to do is look at the response tree to know where the thread is headed, who signs onto the OP, who's going to come out in opposition, who's going to jump on the bandwagon to bash Obama, and so on.

[NYC_SKP]

97. Thank you for understanding my point...

Less to do with choosing sides and more to do with how these threads unfold.

But if I DID have to take sides, well, you know.... :donut:

[cwydro]

85. You are so right there.

[mmonk]

75. We don't eh?

What was "impeachment is off the table", immunity for telecoms, the new FISA, etc., etc. A figment of our delusions? We have the right to our cynicism until it is disproven.

[stillcool]

78. life sucks and then you die..

being miserable is a great excuse to do nothing but bitch.

[leftofthedial]

79. nothing more.

right.

[dcindian]

84. Sorry I don't need an excuse to be cynical. I am an American voter and it is my

responsibility to be cynical.


Lock step is about as bad a thing as one can have. Have you not been watching what is happening to the lock step repuglican party?

[depakid]

88. Watching Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush- and the Democratic "leadership" in Congress

Is PLENTY reason to be cynical.

Obama hasn't been on the scene long enough for cynicism- but his actions in the Senate, his public statements during the campaign- and several of the appoints are enough to leave any progressive skeptical.

So I reckon we'll wait and see- but in the meantime, and won't pay to be naive- because you'll like be in for disappointments....

[Marrah_G]

91. Epic, Epic, Fail.

[pecwae]

92. Very dramatic.

[cboy4]

93. ..........

[PVnRT]

94. Right. Time to put 100% trust in the government.

That's worked so well in the past.

[Waiting For Everyman]

96. But, but... we LIKE cynicim - being negative is so EASY!

Only it isn't though.

Blue World, The Moody Blues (with Maxfield Parish images)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ge8fy2Xz8E


Heart and soul took control
Took control of me
Paid my dues, spread the news
Hands across the sea
Put me down, turned me round
Turned me round to see
Marble halls, open doors
Someone found the key
And it's only what you do
That keeps it coming back on you
And it's only what you say
That can give yourself away

Underground sight and sound
Human Symphony
Heard the voice, had no choice
Needed to be free
Fly me high, touch the sky
Left the earth below
Heard the line, saw the sign
Knew which way to go
'Cause it's easier to try
Than to prove it can't be done
And it's easier to stay
Than to turn around and run

It's a blue world
It takes somebody to help somebody
Oh... it's a blue world
It's a new world
It needs somebody to love somebody
Oh... it's a blue world

[Armstead]

98. I love Pink Fluffy Bunnies

And the moon is a big marshmallow in the sky

[NJmaverick]

99. You have those that will be part of the solution and those that are part of the problem

those that are part of the problem will claim they are just being duly cynical, but for the most part that is just a lame excuse.

[LaydeeBug]

103. and those who created a problem by giving credence to an avowed bigot and dominionist

and told us we're overreacting when we call bullshit bullshit.

Well fuck that honey, he made this bed, and he will goddamned well lay in it.

[Sebastian Doyle]

115. And the ones who are part of the problem do not belong in the cabinet

i.e. wall street whores, neocons, and corporate shills.

[mdmc]

101. uh, he is not Kucinich

Obama is center right... far better then McCain..or bush.. but still a corporate man at heart...
I hope he can be more leftist then Clinton...but whatever...
As long as he get re-elected he can nuke Iran for all I care.
Peacenics can always try to build a working families party or green party or whatever..

[LaydeeBug]

102. ***BULLSHIT***

No one is "acting like Obama's responsible for the disasters going back years when he's not even in office yet. You're acting as if Obama didn't have a long record of being out ahead of these issues, from the war to the mortgage crisis. You're acting as if there was any reason at all to think that Obama isn't going to spend his first hundred hours furiously signing executive orders undoing things that Bush did over the last 8 years" except Barack Obama.

Rick Warren is Obama's doing, and it is DEPLORABLE. No one else did that but Obama.

This isn't cynicism left over from the Bush years, it is outrage based on BARACK OBAMA'S, and BARACK OBAMA'S alone, actions that HE IMPLEMENTED HIMSELF.

Thanks. :hi:

[SidneyCarton]

107. SO IMPEACH HIM ALREADY!!!!!

For the love of the FSM, I have the sinking feeling that if this man does manage to fix the economy, pull us out of Iraq and restore civil liberties, you will still hold this one stupid thing against him.

We all screw up, the Warren invitation was a screw up par excellence, if that alone makes him a bigot, a dominionist and a monster then the bar for such things is shockingly low. Indeed I would argue that at least 80% of DU, and a far higher percentage of the American people can be written off as such.

[LaydeeBug]

108. Those are YOUR bullshit words, not mine.

Impeachment? No, but I WILL speak my MIND about right and WRONG. Please don't try to marginalize this ugly hate with some over the top call for impeachment. Those are YOUR bullshit words, not mine.

[SidneyCarton]

109. I stand corrected.

But seriously, this is an unforgivable sin? Your bar must be quite low.

[LaydeeBug]

110. For that, I am gratified sir...

It's not that this is an unforgivable sin, rather it's a fixable one. And saying "change we an believe in" outta one side of the mouth while saying "can't tell Warren to go because it wouldn't be politically expedient" outta the other is NOT "hope and change". It is same old same old washington politics as usual.

I'm curious, had Warren not been a chauvinistic bigot, but, let's say, a member of the KKK, would you be outraged? Would it be ok to tell you to just "get over it"?

[SidneyCarton]

111. If it was a member of the KKK, what are the odds they would actually have the stones to do it?

In fairness, I do not like Warren at all. I was unclear as to the nature of this man at the beginning, and said some things in earlier arguments that were foolish. I have no reason to like him, he has made a fortune selling God, an activity that is so despicable in my eyes that I cannot begin to explain it. Furthermore, in the eyes of him and his megachurch followers, members of my faith will burn in hell, so frankly I would have loved for Pres. Obama to have picked someone else.

I am not so much outraged as I am embarassed and I will be happy when this fool is finished with his little prayer which will be milquetoast, banal and spoken out of one side of his mouth anyway. As for telling me to "get over it" feel free. You would have the right, and if you stick around here long enough you'll likely catch me in the middle of a rant and have the opportunity to do just that. And just as you have done to me, I will have the right and opportunity to tell you to stick it. (ain't freedom of speech great?)

[LaydeeBug]

118. but it's ok if they have "the stones" to "do it" to the gay community?

Injustice anywhere (in this case the glbt community) is a threat to justice everywhere (each and every one of us)

[SidneyCarton]

126. You misunderstand me.

I don't think the KKK official would have the stones to speak at the inauguration of a black President.

[BlooInBloo]

117. Sorry - it's your side that has already called for his impeachment.

[riqster]

104. If PE Obama had veto-proof majorities in both houses,

... a truly balanced media environment, a non-biased Judiciary, and was not saddled with a Republican-generated deficit that reaches up past the Van Allen Belt, I'd raise my expectations.

As it is, he is a very good man who will do his damnedest for us, in the face of the abovementioned constraints. That is all he can do and is all we should expect.

[arcadian]

105. "I've got good reason to be cynical."

Who are you quoting here? Please provide citation.

[tomp]

106. clueless.

i don't need your permission or approval to be cynical. you have your opinion, i have mine. that's all it is.

i would give you my "reasons" but you're not worth it.

[AtomicKitten]

112. I think the negativity has more to do with personality types than anything else. n/t

[billyoc]

113. I decide who has a reason to by cynical, not you.

[Bucky]

114. I'm sorry, but are there really "DUers bound and determined to destroy Obama"?

Hysterics are usually a bad foundation for building an argument. What gets posted on DU is criticism of our new president. Criticism is not bad. In fact, it is the basis for the very idea of a discussion board.

I've spent 8 years listening to Republican goose steppers telling me I'm trying to destroy the president because I criticize what he does. The only rational response to this malarkey is a well timed "fuck off" to the would-be thought police. As you seem to be a Democrat, I will treat you with just a bit more respect. But don't tell me criticizing a public servant is "destroying" anything.

Your basic argument is delusional. There is simply nothing that can possibly said or done on DU's discussion boards that even approaches being "bound and determined to destroy Obama." If you can't handle the sight of other peoples' arguments, maybe the internet isn't the best fit for you.

[BlooInBloo]

116. (shrug) Willful indifference counts, for present purposes.

[TankLV]

119. feh - obama is NOT infallible or without faults...

the almost cult like WORSHIP of him is nauseating...

he's a hell of a lot better than the current idiot - but then again, ANYBODY would be...

it's a welcome change - but it's not the second coming too many of you would have us believe...

[HughMoran]

125. Obama doesn't wear Nike's?

Who knew?

[Blue_In_AK]

127. Excuse me?

I have every right to be cynical, just as you have every right to be starry-eyed. Obama doesn't get a pass from me.