I want to see Bush pay for his crimes BUT that is so low on my list of priorities right now

[wndycty]

Seriously, I want to see Bush held accountable for what he has done to both this world and this country, however I need to know how the incoming Obama administration and the new Congress spending considerable time and resources on this will:

(IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER)
1) Improve the economy
2) Bring about universal health care
3) End the war on Iraq
4) Bring about fair and just immigration reform
5) Improve public education
6) Make college affordable
7) Protect our environment
8) Repair our aging infrastructure
9) Improve race relations
10) Advance GLBT rights including gay marriage
11) Protect a woman's right to choose
12) Bring about pay equity
13) Make our streets safer
14) Make sure our veterans are provided for
15) Cure cancer
16) Unite this country
17) Support and encourage small businesses
18) Repair our relationships with foreign countries (some say prosecuting Bush will help but its the not the cornerstone)
19) Address the energy crisis

I could go on and on but you get the drift. Now we all know our government should be able to multi-task but again there are so many tasks that I feel are more important than prosecuting Bush. Understand I am not at all against prosecuting Bush, I just get frustrated that with all the problems facing this country some folks feel the most important thing is prosecuting Bush. 4 years from now most of America is not going to feel better about this country just because Bush got prosecuted, but they will feel better if the issues that impact them every day are addressed.

[John Q. Citizen]

1. Without the rule of law, nothing else is possible.

[wndycty]

3. Yeah ok. . .

. . .not sure if you know this but Obama needs Congress and if he expects to advance his agenda at all he will need the cooperation of the Republicans in Congress, good luck get them to cooperate if prosecuting Bush is a priority.

[John Q. Citizen]

5. If bush steals all the funds allocated for health care, we won't have health care.

Might makes right doesn't get your agenda implemented past the keyboard.

Without courts and laws and enforcement, that agenda you put up is meaningless. It's just words.

Deeds are important. We have laws. If they aren't enforced, how will passing more laws be productive?

[bottomtheweaver]

10. Bingo.

The best way to cover your tracks is to pull the plug on the economy on your way out the door. Hasta la vista suckers.

[walldude]

9. Actually he needs only the cooperation of 2 Republicans in congress

and that's just to protect against a fillibuster. And why on earth would Obama or anyone care about Republicans in congress. When they were in charge they acted like Dem's didn't even exist. Not only was there no attempt at bi-partisanship but there was nothing but derision and scorn heaped upon anyone that didn't go along with the Bush agenda. Dems acted like they had no spine or control for 8 years, well now we have the control, are we going to grow a spine or cower under the rule of people who aren't even in charge?

[wndycty]

11. Do you remember how most of America was introduced to Obama?

As post partisan.

Let's not forget in his 2004 convention speech.

[John Q. Citizen]

13. law enforcement is one of the main jobs of the executive. If he wans't out on that, he's

not being realistic.

If you don't enforce the law, why would anybody follow the law?

Are yoiu suggesting we move away from the rule of law and toward the rule of men, good strong smart men, like Obama?

Not me. I won't follow you.

[wndycty]

15. You do realize I was responding to a post in which. . .

. . .someone said Obama only needed 2 Republicans in Congress? I am in no way saying we don't enforce the law, my comment in the post you are responding to was political not legal.

You have such a laughable knee jerk reaction on this issue. You do realize I do support prosecuting Bush, its just not a priority for me.

[John Q. Citizen]

18. Why will new laws passed be enforced if laws on our books are ignored to pass the new ones?

[wndycty]

19. Before we go any further. . .would you at least acknowledge I support prosecuting Bush

Thanks. . .

[John Q. Citizen]

31. I support a full on investigation into the alledges illigailties of the bush admin. Failure to do so

is failure to do the basics of the peoples business.

And to knowingly look the other way, whether for political convenience or personal gain is a crime.

It doesn't matter if you put it on the back burner for a good reason or a bad reason. it's still a crime.

so I'm glad to hear that you support a timely and thorough independent investigation and prosecutions as warranted.

An independent special prosecutor with subpoena power is what is needed.

[wndycty]

35. So who are you accusing of crime? Me or Obama?

Neither of us is committing one by the way.

[John Q. Citizen]

39. The suggestion that Obam stick criminal prosecutions on the back burner is a suggestion

that Obama commit a crime. I don't know that to be a crime, by the way, particularly the way you used it.

if your reading of what i wrote in anyway suggested to you that I was accusing you or Obama of committing a crime, then I assure you your reading is incorrect.

Are you familiar with the usage of the subjunctive in English? I think most English readers would readily see that my usage of the word "if" is intended to convey a hypothetical situation. A situation brought up by your hypothetical OP, which posits future events, and your opinion of how best those future events would unfold, according to you.

I'm just pointing out the potential legal problems with purposely ignoring laws that are already on the books.

[blm]

25. GOPs in congress will be obstacles to good policy when extent of Bush's crimes are revealed?

I think they'd be rushing to microphones claiming Bush lied to them.

[leftstreet]

6. What you said

:thumbsup:

[Festivito]

29. It's our first establishment, should be first, and is integral to success.

We are rebuilding our nation after Bushco.
We the people of the United States in order to form a more perfect union ESTABLISH JUSTICE.

I wonder what part of the order here is not clear.

[DevonRex]

2. Food, shelter, health care, employment first. Has to be that way.

Too many Americans are jobless, homeless, hungry and sick right fucking now.

[John Q. Citizen]

7. Yes, don't enforce existing laws. Pass new ones. Then later we can enforce them all.

[BlooInBloo]

4. Yes - the Department of Justice needs to do all of those...

So clearly they won't have time for little things, like, enforcing federal law. Which is, um, their job.

[wndycty]

8. I'm glad you mentioned the DOJ. . .

. . .if all the issues under their jurisdiction is prosecuting Bush really the most important thing for them to do?

[leftstreet]

12. What will prevent the Obama Admin from committing the same crimes?

[elocs]

14. It's pretty low on the list of most Americans who worry most about keeping their jobs,

keeping their homes, or having enough money to feed their families and provide for their basic needs. My guess would be that most of them are not spending their free time online calling for Bushco to be brought to justice.

[wndycty]

16. You are WRONG they are saying "I'm worried about my job but don't do anything about it. . ."

". . .until you prosecute Bush." :sarcasm:

[elocs]

22. Right, I hear that everywhere as long as everywhere is here at DU. n/t

[wndycty]

23. LOL

:kick:

[Stardust]

20. Of course bringing Bushco to justice is not a priority for "most American!" That's how we got into

this fucking mess...only a few knew or cared. Even if both of *'s elections were stolen, he did manage to win several million votes.

But, alas, I do foresee Obama de-prioritizing this despicable issue. And I don't know if I can blame him. It's a lose-lose situation. I imagine that with Obama's background in constitutional law and his keen sense, it must really burn him to see so clearly, with all the classified documents he's privy to now, the crimes Bushco has committed. But he's also a realist. And, man, does reality suck right now.




.

[juajen]

17. AFAIC, nothing is as important as stopping government corruption.

If you let some get away with it, look what happens. Reagan and Big Bush got away with Iran-Contra and that gave Jr. the chance to do it again, only worse, thinking that we would be too busy cleaning up his mess to make him and his minions pay for it. Every appropriate investigation should go forward. This has to be done to protect our country in the future. It should have been started when we regained the majority in congress. I also want some recovery of the taxpayers' money. Especially from Hilliburton.

[Vincardog]

42. juajen is right Every appropriate investigation should go forward

[northernlights]

21. I only hope that

while Obama and congress are focussed on the the economy and getting us out of the wars and putting us back on track, Holder has a team quietly investigating and putting together the case.

No reason not to multitask since congress and obama will only need to deal with this when presented with the case. It's strictly one for the detectives and lawyers right now.

To me, there is a *very* important reason why Bush and co must be held accountable and punished for their crimes.

For 8 years, they led in criminality and their minions followed. I mean this literally. My life became a nonstop crimewave because there were no checks and balances in place. I've been harrassed & driven out of my home by a sex offender and his gang, had my identity stolen, my new property trashed, been poisoned and harrassed by a rwkk small employer. All with police pretty much looking the other way and the FBI too busy chasing terr'ists. I'm pretty much ruined at this point.

The criminals that thrived under Bush need to be put on notice. NOW. Otherwise, the message to me (and I'm sure others) is that only crime pays and nobody gives a fuck anyway. I won't half kill myself and destroy my health slaving and saving the way I did in the 90s...only to be robbed of it all. I will only feel any hope that it's worth trying again if I see criminals facing justice. Seriously. I'm that done. Otherwise, I'm leaving and I'm taking a few fuckhead criminals with me. I won't go through this shit again. And until I see criminal heads rolling, and the head criminals going first, I fucking give up.

[blm]

24. You think GOP lawmakers/corpmedia would get in Obama's way on policy if BushInc's crimes were being

exposed to the general public?

How did deep-sixing BCCI matters and CIA drugrunning story in the 90s turn out for universal healthcare, 2000 election, Democratic party, our country and the world?

[mopinko]

26. i both agree and disagree.

i do agree that he will need all the political capital that he can hang onto to do the job that needs to be done to keep things from collapsing utterly. your list is by no means complete. there is so very much that people are expecting and needing.
i also think that restoring the rule of law is a tall order that needs to be filled. me, i would go in there kicking ass and taking names. i wouldn't have gotten in the door, of course.

the man has quite a tightrope to walk. he has to do what he has to do to keep his balance. i think he needs to get some distance down before he starts to openly wrestle with the octopus. i have little hope, tho, that he will get re-elected if he does not deliver some justice. as was mentioned upthread, i hope that doj will be working hard to put together a large rico suit that will scorch some earth. long term, i think it is the only hope for our democracy.

i think that if your house both has termites and is on fire, that you put the fire out first. don't see any way to do it in any other order.

[davsand]

27. ANY successful manager has to delegate the work

The President is, in part, a manager, and Obama will be an excellent manager. Obama ran an absolutely brilliant campaign that they will be talking about for decades to come. He did that by knowing who to delegate stuff to and who not to trust. Expect that same level of intelligence and judgment from his as a President because he's already started to demonstrate it and he's not even officially taken office.

Something else to ponder here is the idea that the prosecutors are specialists. It is what they do, it is how they spend their days. Justice will follow whatever policies that Obama puts forth. Obama has already said NOBODY is above the rule of the law. I have faith that If they can find anything to prosecute they will, but it is gonna be up to the specialists rather than the politicians and managers in the WhiteHouse.

This signals an new direction for Justice, and I find it sad that nobody on here is paying attention to it. We have been beating the crap out of the regime for the last eight years that they were using their official powers for political gain and intimidation of political dissent. We have been collectively outraged that the Constitution got pissed on by this crew when they targeted liberals and progressives and yet I have a sense that many on here WANT Obama to sit in his office and somehow personally direct Justice to target people.

Maybe, just maybe, Justice WILL for the first time in 8 long years truly live up to the title.

You can say we are nothing without the rule of the law, but dammit, Obama said the SAME thing this morning along with the statement that we have a LOT of other problems to sort out along with it. I do NOT see the foundation for outrage in that. He's got a LOT of things he's responsible for and frankly I'd a whole lot rather have a guy running shit that can walk AND chew gum at the same time. We are cleaning up from one that couldn't and that is why we're in the mess we are.

I just do NOT get the reason for the outrage



Laura

[rvablue]

28. I totally agree with you ... pissed as hell at what has been done over the past 8 years

but right now we have to fix the problems because the US is headed for complete disaster if we don't.

And if these crises/problems/issues aren't taken care of, it could give the Repubs and opening and the last thing we need is another Republican running the country. We won't survive.

[PurityOfEssence]

30. That's healthy and wise of you, because it's not going to happen

That would be all-out war with the right and much of the center, and it would set a precedent more akin to the unpleasant transfers of power elsewhere and undermine our tradition of peaceful transitions. It sucks, mind you: these people are literal war criminals, war profiteers, looters, murderers, and slavemasters, but it's too hot to handle. Obama is the last person to do such a thing, by the way; he's not noted for taking the hard road.

[wndycty]

33. Its got to suck to be you. . .

. . .I cant wait until January 21 for you to show up at a federal court house to complain that Obama isn't legally the president because he used "so help me God" when he got sworn in. LOL

[PurityOfEssence]

40. Waaaaaaaah. You're so mean.

Feel better now?

[santamargarita]

32. #1 the economy #2 Bush

I want that sonuvabitch dealt with!

[pmorlan1]

34. Sorry but I have to disagree with you

Sorry but I have to disagree with you. I think restoring the rule of law is the most important task facing this president. After 8 years of a wholesale attack on the rule of law we can't just sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen. Any accomplishments Obama might have in the future will always have an asterisk next to them saying but he allowed universally recognized war criminals to go unpunished. To allow this to happen will encourage another generation to think that what Bush did was ok because he was never punished (you already see comments like that now). I think years down the road when this happens again the people who advocated this position will wish they could have a do over.

[specimenfred1984]

36. So you want to allow the highest crimes in history to go unpunished

and think that ignoring those crimes will somehow facilitate progress in other areas. Ever wonder how Nazi Germany came to be? You just exhibited the exact behavior.

[wndycty]

37. Where did I say they should go unpunished. . .

Tell me where.

[bitchkitty]

38. Good thing it's not that important to you -

because I'd wager he won't pay for his crimes, not one red cent of financial discomfort or criminal charges.

The Bushes never pay. They haven't yet...

[mmonk]

41. So explain how each of those issues you want doesn't interfere with each other

but prosecuting the violations of the constitution would? I think nothing is more important than my freedom and that of my children. However, I don't argue we should put off other things. It's all a part of what their job is all about.