Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. What's a president to do?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 10:07 AM
Original message
Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. What's a president to do?
Edited on Sun Jan-11-09 10:11 AM by babylonsister

Obama knows we need a huge stimulus package, but the rethugs will fight tooth and nail because of their newfound 'concern' for spending so much, despite their historic spending during the * years. Obama has started with a low(er)-ball figure and economists claim it's way too low. Any ideas on how Obama can combat the naysayers and satisfy the economists? And the country?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. Seems to me that FDR faced the same problem.
We do have majorities in both houses ya know, and it's time to first paint the Republicans as obstructionists and then hit them with the proverbial nuclear option. Any so-called Democrats who aren't on board with Obama should be thrown overboard at the first opportunity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. We won't need to paint Republicans
as obstructionists, they are obstructionists. But, correct, the electorate needs to be reminded. Remember, the PEOPLE weren't too pleased with Republican obstructionists during Clinton's administration.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. 2/3 of the populace can't recognize an abstructionist
without the paint. We need, as you say, to keep reminding them. I'm not talking about painting a truck to look like a roadblock. I'm talking about painting a roadblock to look like a roadblock.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. Find the money by cutting the military budget..eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I don't see that happening unfortunately. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. Congressman Barney Frank wants to cut the military budget by 25%
And the budget is a process of the legislative branch, not the executive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. Obama has said that he wants to increase the military budget, not decrease it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rtassi Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. He can't ... and shouldn't try IMO ...
It's not possible to satisfy everyone. He'll need to take his best shot, and attempt to do the greatest amount of good, for the greatest amount of people. Take the hit if it doesn't work, and attempt to make adjustments, analyzing how each decision tends to effect another. A lot depends on us in terms of our own honesty with ourselves, and how much "fear" we allow ourselves to buy into, while realizing "change" is an ongoing process, which is always occurring whether we realize it or not.
peace
rt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I think you're right. "He can't". Hopefully rethugs realize how
critical this spending package is and won't give him too much lip.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Its impossible to please everyone, Obama has to make the difficult decisions on his own
I think that is why the presidency is so aging.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
6. i think obama has done fine so far without our help. he seems to be pretty
unruffled over this. i think he's been around long enough to know how it goes. and it makes the republicans and dems who are acting like idiots LOOK like petty partisan hacks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. I wasn't offering help as I think he's doing fine as well.
I'm just pondering on how he'll overcome this obstacle. Yes, one of many, but it's a biggie.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EraOfResponsibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. that is so true n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
11. I know many people have already seen it but this looks like a good place to post Nate Silver's
piece on this subject again:


Obama's Price is Right Negotiating Strategy?

So it turns out that the Senate Democrats are not entirely happy about the Obama administration's proposal to spend "only" $800 billion or so on the economic stimulus package, about $300 billion of which would be devoted to tax cuts. Not just any Senate Democrats are angry, moreover, but a series of VIPs who either hold either very prominent public positions (Harry Reid), command a great deal of respect on the Hill (Tom Harkin), are thought to be very close to Obama (Kent Conrad), or all of the above (John Kerry).

My question is: can Obama really be entirely surprised that this is happening?

Before you answer, consider who we haven't heard very much from the past couple of days. We haven't heard very much from Mitch McConnell. And we haven't heard very much from the Blue Dogs. Nobody seems (publicly) to be taking the position that the $800 billion is too much, at least provided that it comes with $300 billion of tax cuts.

-snip-
Obama isn't picking these numbers out on accident. This range -- $800 billion to $1.3 trillion -- is most likely the range of outcomes that his administration considers acceptable. He says that "given the legislative process", he's deliberately chosen a number on the lower end of that range.

What does this mean? It means he wants the Senate Democrats to do his dirty work for him. All of the sudden, the administration, which is about to spend at least $800 billion, gets to play the role of the fiscally prudent tightwads, negotiating against the Senate Democrats. This has at least two benefits. One, it requires less of the administration's political capital to sell the package. And two, it completely co-opts the conservative opposition. Unless you're Paul Krugman or Greg Mankiw, you probably don't really have any idea whether $300 billion or $800 billion or $1.2 trillion is the right amount to spend; the numbers are too large, the scope of the stimulus too unprecedented, to provide for any absolute frame of reference. So the frame of reference is relative rather than absolute. If you're Mitch McConnell or Mary Landireu or Bob Corker and you see that John Kerry thinks that $800 billion is too little -- well then, 'gal darn it, this Obama fella must be doing something right.

Imagine instead that Obama had started out at $1.3 trillion, assuming that the conservatives in the Senate would negotiate him down. Then we have some big, old-fashioned brouhaha about economic philosophy, with Obama and the Senate Democrats lining up against the Blue Dogs and the Republicans. This strikes me as a considerably more dangerous negotiation, because while the Senate Democrats can set the ceiling if Obama starts too low, there is nobody really there to set the floor if he starts too high -- the Republicans have no real imperative to compromise on any stimulus. Public sentiment, moreover, which now favors the stimulus, might easily have turned against it if there was some sticker shock on the initial price tag, and once public sentiment turns against something like this, it can be hard to put back into the bottle.

I call this a Price is Right negotiating strategy. When bidding on an item on The Price is Right, you want to come as close as possible to the item's price without going over. But if you do go over, your bid is invalidated. Thus, it is worse to bid $1 too much than $100 too little.
Here, analogously, the risks of overbidding seem to be considerably greater to Obama than the risks of underbidding.

Some of you will object: but why even worry about this whole bipartisan song and dance? Don't Democrats have the votes to shove this thing through?

Actually, that is not completely obvious. The Democrats have plenty enough votes in the House, but in the Senate, they'll need either one or two Republican crossovers to break a filibuster, depending on how the situations in Illinois and Minnesota are resolved. And they might need a couple more than that if they lose a Landrieu or a Lincoln. Now, I have argued before that a Republican filibuster is exceptionally unlikely on the stimulus. But this is on the assumption that both Obama and the stimulus itself are reasonably popular. If Obama were perceived as overreaching, on the other hand, the Republicans might have found it much easier to unite themselves against the proposal.

Until Obama takes the Oath of Office and actually stars doing stuff, it is easy for any of us to filter his actions through our preferred narrative about the incoming administration. Is this all some clever jujitsu negotiating ploy from the Boy Genius Campaign? Or is it a sign that the Obama administration just doesn't get it, fetishizes centrism and bipartisanship, and will need constant babysitting from the noble netroots? Neither characterization is liable to be entirely accurate, of course.

But I'm more inclined to argue for the former on the case of the stimulus package. The median expectation a week ago seemed to be that we'd wind up with a stimulus of about $800 billion. Now the question seems to be whether we'll end up at $800 billion or somewhat above $800 billion.

That doesn't mean that those of you who think we need more than $800 billion ought to shut up about it (in fact, Obama's whole strategy falls apart if you do). But for the time being, it would seem, that number has nowhere to go but up.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/01/obamas-price-is-right-negotiating.html#comments
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thanks for posting that article; Silver is spot on, I think and hope. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Wow, a whole new field of journalism is opening--that of trying to
guess the finesse. For the past 8 years, the game was one of trying to make Bushco's moves look less destructive, self-serving and vicious than they actually were. Gilding the turd. Now with Obama, the whole level of the political game has risen from blunder and bludgeon to master-level chess, and no move is as simple as it looks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
15. stop pandering to the repukes in the name of "bipartisanship"
or "post-partisanship" (which is utter nonsense)

Give them an inch and they take a mile AND redraw the "center" further to the right.

Act like you and your party just won an election, fercrissake. . Establish good policies that you think will solve our problems and fight for them.

I hate to say it, but he's already begun squandering political capital and he's not even in office yet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. "I hate to say it..."
:rofl: Sure you do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. he's a good enough basketball player
that he should recognize when he's being boxed out.


I voted for him. I'm ecstatic we don't have another repuke in power. I was glad that he could take office with huge political leverage. Even though I disagree with many of his positions, most of his economic ideas and many of his staff positions, I was eagerly looking forward to some plan being put into place with enough energy and momentum that it might succeed. Some plan, executed competently and relatively honestly, is preferable to no plan at all, which is what we've had for eight years. Now, though, and I HATE TO SAY IT, I don't think he will have the support of the "democrats" in Congress. Plus I think he has fallen into the repuke trap--try to meet them halfway and they keep moving farther and farther to the right. He's losing traction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
20. Why does he need to do it all at once?
I like Krugman, but when did Obama say that this will be his only effort at fixing the economy?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat May 04th 2024, 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC