Tweety just told Howard Dean that it seems he should've been rewarded...

[polichick]

...that he should enjoy some of the spoils with the success of his 50-State Strategy.

Dean said that he did it for the country, not for the spoils ~ that he's very glad Obama won and he will be out giving speeches and pushing the healthcare bill.

It bothers me a lot that Dean won't be part of the administration. I don't get it ~ please 'splain if you can. :)

[HEyHEY]

1. Administration posts are not rewards.

[polichick]

Well then, because Dean did such an amazing job & will continue to.

[BrklynLiberal]

17. They shouldn't be...but in reality they very often are....

[samplegirl]

2. I really thought Howard Dean would get Surgeoun General.

I always liked Howard Dean and I'm sure he will continue to succeed.

[Captain Hilts]

3. By those criteria we'd owe GWBush a job too. I think he should have been considered...

for surgeon general.

Was he?

[polichick]

7. GW? Would Obama have won without the 50-State Strategy?

I don't know if he was considered for anything ~ he wanted Daschle's job I think.

[Captain Hilts]

9. Yes. Obama would have won without the 50 state strategy.

Dems thumped Republicans in the 2006 elections too.

[tkmorris]

18. The same 50 SS was in place in 2006 you know.

[Captain Hilts]

21. Yes, but...

eight years in polling I look at other data also.

GWB's approval ratings have even gone into hard core Republicans. He lost independents a long time ago.

He and Dick Cheney destroyed the myth that Republicans govern better than Democrats.

[polichick]

23. Yep, it was.

[wyldwolf]

25. Is there a reference source...

A site or book that details what the 50 state strategy did in each state?

I know what it didn't do in GA.

[Captain Hilts]

27. And it wasted money in hopeless states at times. nt

[wyldwolf]

28. I was trying to be nice but, yeah, it did waste a lot of resources

[dsc]

43. Pretty much every person on the planet wrote off NC

well the 50 state strategy won a Senate seat no one thought we would, two Congressional seats, and likely saved our governorship not to mention Obama won. So we blew a buck or two in GA, so the fuck what.

[wyldwolf]

47. I was actually referring to 2006

but since you brought up NC and 2008, what specifically did the 50 state strategy do in NC?

[dsc]

62. we won one of those seats in 2006 (Shuler's)

When I got here in 2004, in July, Kerry had already written off the state. We had no campaigning for Kerry at all in Wilson county which is a swing county. Bowles lost by less than 2 points to an unknown Burr. This was with Edwards on the ticket. Kerry was an achor which cost us a Senate seat. Dean was right then and right in 2006.

[wyldwolf]

64. You misunderstand...

What did the 50 state strategy DO to achieve those results

(by the way, Shuler's race was one of Emanuel's handpicked and closely worked races)

[dsc]

67. spent money, provided volunteers

got Kissel close enough to win his race this time.

[wyldwolf]

68. how much and who as opposed to pre-50 state strategy?

Seriously. 2006 in GA Dean put two state party workers on the DNC's payroll and they essentially went out and did what they'd been doing previously - only they were being paid by Dean and not the state party.

So what about NC?

[unc70]

92. NC had a "100 County" strategy under Jerry Meek

Meek was supported by the "grassroots" (county level) rather than by the state Dem leadership. This was similar to how Dean was supported by state-level Dem leaders rather than by the national/DC ones. Just as the national Dems had written off many states as hopeless and not worthy of their(our!!) precious resources, the NCDP before Meek focused mainly on a few urban areas and eastern counties with large AA populations. That has now changed and we have won majorities in some counties for the first time in decades, since the party realignment in the 1960's. Here is an interesting blog from when Jerry Meek was first selected as state chairman:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/20/143352/228

Other factors were also critical to Dem wins in NC:

Election law reform following the multiple failures in NC in 2004. Now requires paper ballots or paper trails, audits, software source escrow and access, etc. (I believe that many of the Dem gains were in areas that had previously used DREs without paper trails, but I haven't had time to look at all the data and see if hunch is confirmed.)

The demographics of voters in NC are changing but the biggest effect is not from people moving from other states; those voters include many conservative Catholics, white professionals, and similar groups tending Repub or Indep/Libertarian. The big change I see is particularly among native NC voters who grew up after segregation and who always attended integrated schools. NC once among the first Southern states to integrate under Gov Sanford and those under 40 really cannot comprehend how things had been.

The prolonged Dem primary season provided the final critical component to winning. National political leaders came to towns in NC that had last seen a President when Washington road through on his Southern tour. Yes, there was a lot of pandering from all sides, but as I overhead "This time they are pandering to us."

[Captain Hilts]

51. I didn't. nt

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

94. yeah, that's what Sagle resorts to when he has no answers

[tkmorris]

30. Much of it's effects would be subjective f course

So any documentation of what the 50 state strategy actually accomplished would be subject to interpretation.

[wyldwolf]

32. make that VERY subjective

[Captain Hilts]

55. I like the idea and I think it helped in some places, but Obama would have won anyway.

It probably helped in some downticket races.

The last week of May two national surveys - there were probably more - showed both Obama and Clinton beating McCain. Palin acting like a fool helped. McCain looking like a fool in the economic crash of Sept. helped.

[Guaranteed]

53. But would Obama have won if Dean hadn't taken the lead against Iraq in 2002?

That's the question.

[Captain Hilts]

56. Yes. Absolutely. nt

[Guaranteed]

60. I'm not sure he would have.

I think the tone of our culture with regard to Iraq would have been entirely different even in 2008 if Dean hadn't set the stage.

Dean, despite losing in 2004, won the election in 2008 for us.

[polichick]

69. I agree 100%

[dansolo]

90. But would he have won the primary?

I'm sure that we would be having a Democratic president, but without the 50-state strategy, I think that the person being inaugurated in two weeks would be Clinton, not Obama.

[NYCGirl]

22. He didn't want it.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0109/Surgeon_General_Gupta.html

[AtomicKitten]

31. good to know

thanks for the link

:hi:

[catgirl]

103. Emanuel got the job Dean wanted

Dean came right out and said he'd wanted the job.

[cali]

36. How about because Howard is incredibly qualified and successful?

[AtomicKitten]

4. I think he should have been given a gig. n/t

[Cha]

15. I keep thinking good things

are going to come to Dean..we just don't know what yet. Call me an optimist but Dean is exceptional and has done really well for his country.

He's just the type to wear many hats(very versitile)and I can't wait to see what his next one will be.

:fistbump:Dean:loveya:

[AtomicKitten]

19. I so agree. He set the groundwork for Obama's monster victory. n/t

[polichick]

35. So true. The YES WE CAN spirit echoed YOU HAVE THE POWER...

Barack used Dean's campaign model in so many ways.

[AtomicKitten]

42. It was a brilliant victory, over by 8:00 P.M. PST. No court challenges to determine the winner.

After the heart-breaking, protracted 2000 election, this was a luxurious treat. I will forever be grateful to Dean for this victory. He's an unsung hero that deserves nothing but good things coming his way.

Cheers.

[polichick]

45. I feel the same way...

:toast:

[Cha]

59. Yes, they did..it wasn't just

the brilliant 50 state strategy.

[Cha]

50. As we like to say during the primaries and

GE..Dean was the pioneer and Obama is perfecting the 50 state strategy.

Dean is priceless:bounce:

[AtomicKitten]

61. Dean must be delighted seeing his hard work come to fruition.

:fistbump:

[Cha]

88. Yes, he really does care about our Country

and is pretty much selfless. That is a gorgeous pic, AK!

Thank you:fistbump:

[AnneD]

20. I think so too...

having met the man-I'd follow him. He is a smart, funny, and has leader written all over him. He was screwed by the media.

The Dem party is so deep in talent now, I think it is time we get rid of some of these spineless dinosaur es in the Senate. I'd want Dean to run my election campaign.

[Cha]

58. The corporatemediawhores will eviserate any

Dem and we were fortunate that Dean went on to the DNC Chairman 'cause he thought he good change things around:)

Only this time we had the Perfect Storm to get our Dem Prez candidate in and lo and behold it turns out to be historic to boot.

It would be awesome to weed out the dinos.

[polichick]

63. "It would be awesome to weed out the dinos." Yes, it would!

[AnneD]

78. If we don't weed out dome of these dinos....

our fate will be worse than that of the GOP.

[ellisonz]

5. Good man.

[napi21]

6. I wonder if he was offered a position and said no? I LOVE Howard,

but he's a pretty independant guy. I think if he was offered a position he didn't really think was a great fit, he'd turn it down.

[tilsammans]

77. That's my thought, too.

Maybe Dean WAS offered a spot in Obama's administration, and Dean decided against it.

We can't know everything that went on behind the scenes. :shrug:

[elleng]

8. matthews continues his efforts

to make people feel bad; I'm SURE that Dean just LOVES discussing this.

[Captain Hilts]

10. GOOD point. nt

[polichick]

11. I hope Obama feels bad about it.

[elleng]

24. Thats your desire,

that the President Elect feel BAD?

[polichick]

29. If he heard Tweety and Dean today - yes, I would hope he'd feel...

...bad about not including Dean in the administration after everything Dean did to get him elected, including modeling the kind of grassroots campaign he should run.

[elleng]

41. Like him or not (I don't), rahm and Dean had competing models,

didn't get along, and probably still don't (that's MY conclusion.) There's more to this than meets the eye, I suspect, as there usually is.

[madfloridian]

48. Rahm is an asshole who worked with Carville to get Dean marginalized in 2006

Carville is an asshole, too.

If they are the face of the party now, I am not sure I am interested anymore.

[polichick]

49. It is pretty sickening to see Rahm so close to PE Obama. Blech!

[wyldwolf]

57. ANYONE who disagrees with Dean is an asshole!

[madfloridian]

65. Rahm would be one anyway. He takes pride in it.

[wyldwolf]

66. but he disagrees with Jesus... uh... I mean Dean, so he's a BIGGER one!!!!!

[madfloridian]

70. Keep on with the attitude. Some of us are having 2nd thoughts

already.

You really are one who makes me wonder why I bother remaining a Democrat.

[wyldwolf]

71. I can recommend a destination for you

Green Party, maybe?

[madfloridian]

72. Your wing is totally in control now.

You should be very proud.

The corporate and religious Democrats are totally back in power.

It means we are open to more denigration from the ones from that wing here at DU.

Fine with me.

If arrogant assholes are back in charge, they don't need my money and can't be sure of my vote.

[wyldwolf]

73. at what point was it not?

[madfloridian]

75. Now we are all aware. You are not a gracious winner at all.

Some here are hurting, and you are making it worse with this snide attitude.

Money and power always win.

We have stopped any donations because we learned they don't matter after all.

I've had it.

[wyldwolf]

76. some here are always hurting

:shrug:

I've had it.

Really this time?

[polichick]

83. You think of Obama as a DLCbot?

[wyldwolf]

85. what's a DLCbot?

[polichick]

86. LOL - I knew you were going to say that. imo he's planning to use...

...that centrist machine to get some pretty progressive initiatives through Congress.

[wyldwolf]

87. what's a DLCbot?

[rhett o rick]

44. Obama was glad to get the help from Dean and the multitudes of grassroots supporters

that got out the vote to get him elected. But that was then and this is now. Face it, Howard Dean and us grassroots are no longer useful. PE Obama knows that to get anything done, either progressive or not, he must work with the MACHINE. This means he needs the help of the extremely powerful DLC and their corporate sponsors. All we can hope for is that Obama will work for the benefit of middle class America as much as he is allowed by the MACHINE.

[polichick]

84. So was he using the grassroots then, or is he using the machine now?

[rhett o rick]

93. Essentially both. The questions are: How progressive is he really?

and How effective can he be.

the good news is that the grassroots have seen that they can be effective. I think the "machine" understands that and that might make it a little easier for a progressive Obama to get change.

Our biggest challenge as I see it is to try to get rid of the DINO's that are plaguing us. Not sure that is even possible.

[polichick]

96. That's pretty much how I see it - he's an equal opportunity user, so to speak...

Guess we'll have to wait to see how progressive he really is ~ looks to me like he plans to use the machine to push some pretty progressive initiatives through Congress.

(I hope, I hope.)

[rhett o rick]

104. I am trying to be optimistic, but not happy with the Gupta pick. nm

[AnneD]

26. What?

I am missing a puzzle piece...Matthews

[madfloridian]

46. That was an awful thing to say. The party leaders have left him out in the cold.

He still spouts their talking points.

He has stayed out of the limelight almost entirely.

That is shameful to say. And very divisive.

[wyldwolf]

12. how, exactly, do we KNOW an offer wasn't extended?

Perhaps one was, Dean declined, and he's keeping silent so as not to cause Obama a little embarassment at being turned down?

[polichick]

13. Wouldn't it have leaked by now?

[wyldwolf]

14. maybe, maybe not. All we're doing is guessing at this point

[camera obscura]

16. I hope something good is coming Dean's way... whether from Obama or not

[Barack_America]

33. Dean wants to go out on the speaking circuit and make some money.

That is my best guess.

I think he also wants to maintain the ability to speak his own mind, which would not be possible if he were a part of the administration.

Dean has plans and being a part of the Obama administration doesn't fit with them. I'm reasonably certain that several positions were offered to him. Otherwise Obama would be an ungrateful POS and I don't believe he is.

[polichick]

34. I so hope you're right! :)

[cali]

37. wrong.

First of all Dean has money. Secondly, he's never been terribly interested in amassing the trappings of wealth- you should see where he lives. Thirdly, he wanted a job with the admin- and he very much wanted HHS.

I KNOW he wasn't offered a gig.

[Barack_America]

38. .

Then Obama is an ungrateful POS.

ETA: And I didn't necessarily mean money for some sort of lavish lifestyle. I honestly wonder if we've seen the end of Howard Dean in presidential politics.

[cali]

39. I don't think it says that

though it is disappointing. Let's face it, his admin is stacked with people who really don't like Howard.

[Barack_America]

40. .

Sorry, I was editing my post as you were posting yours.

In any case, I understand the theme of Obama's administration seems to be "people who can get shit through Congress" and I can see how Dean isn't a great fit there. On the other hand, maybe I'm old-school but I think that when someone does for you like Dean did for Obama, you take care of them (especially when they're highly qualified and devoted public servants). Kaine got his and Dean should be rewarded too.

[Guaranteed]

52. Dean should be rewarded for being our only leader (other than Kucinich) to stand up

when it mattered.

That's what he did. He set the tone, and, because of him, we eventually pulled out of this.

[polichick]

54. For that, he will always be a hero to me - he should be a hero to the party.

[truedelphi]

80. Dean should be rewarded for reasons you state.

How soon Obama forgot who it is who put him where he is.

[hollowdweller]

82. Amen. He made people proud to be democrats.

He said that the people agreed with Democratic values and wasn't afraid to call the GOP on their hypocracy.

Most of the people excited about Dean have hung in there and worked for the party and donated money and done things that helped us win in 06 and 08.

He's pretty much the opposite of the big ego big shot politician.

I love Obama but to be honest it pisses me off that he has not given more credit to Dean and the grassroots.

Putting Kaine in as head of the DNC was a real let down for me. A shill for big money replacing Dean just seems wrong to me.

[camera obscura]

74. For people who don't like Howard Dean, I just want to know one thing...

do you really think we would have done worse in the 2004 elections with Dean's confrontational, outsider, "partisan" style instead of establishment-approved John Kerry's performance?

(No offense to Kerry, who is a great senator. But I think he really dropped the ball campaigning.)

[madfloridian]

79. Congrats to the conservative wing of the Democratic party.

Those of us progressives who really thought we mattered owe you a big salute.

We worked and donated and thought we mattered. The acceptance is hard, but we'll heal.

Now you have carte blanche to ridicule us for actually being upstarts who thought we could make a difference.

[acmavm]

81. A very classy statement by a very classy guy.

[mascarax]

89. It bothers me too...

My respect for Howard Dean has increased a lot since 2004. Yes, I know it's not a reward, but c'mon.
When the likes of Sanjay Gupta are gettin' gigs...

[JVS]

95. Fuckin A!

[phleshdef]

97. Dean is coming across as geniunely tired of being THAT entrenched in politics.

He can go make a ton of money taking speaking engagements. He can kick back his feet for awhile because his work is done. Some assume that Dean actually WANTS to serve in Washington for the next 4-8 years without knowing a damn thing about what his personal thoughts actually are.

[polichick]

98. The point is: Has Obama given him the credit and appreciation he deserves??

[marimour]

100. wasnt he one of only 2 people he thanked (politicians)

when he won? I doubt the issue is whether Obama appreciates him and all we have now is speculation that he was snubbed, no actual facts to back this up.

[polichick]

101. When did he thank him? Can't recall.

[zulchzulu]

99. Dean said in the interview he wants to go on speaking circuit, write a book

It sounds like he wants to take a break from the Beltway. Obviously, being on the speaking circuit can be very lucrative and he can set up his time to be somewhere when he wants to.

[polichick]

102. Great - I'll look forward to that book!