Chris Crain's Indy Gay Blog: Bill Clinton's Rick Warren

[zulchzulu]

As it turns out, the only people who protested Billy Graham doing the Invocation in 1993 and 1997 for Bill Clinton were people like Randall Terry and Operation Rescue. There's some info on their action:

A group of antiabortion activists has called on Billy Graham not to participate in the inauguration of Bill Clinton as president. Leaders of the group, many of them associated with Operation Rescue and the Christian Action Council--an organization that Graham helped form in 1975--said they would flood the evangelist's Minneapolis headquarters with letters and phone calls demanding that he refuse to pray for Clinton. They also planned a prayer vigil in front of Graham's headquarters.

http://teabagsinfusion.blogspot.com/2008/12/rick-warren-invocation-imbroglio.html

I know some in the GLBT community think Chris Crain is not a legitimate spokesperson for the gay movement, but he brings up this issue:

It's worth remembering, as you consider the competing viewpoints over Warren-gate, that there was no outcry surrounding Bill Clinton selection of evangelist Billy Graham to give the prayer at his 1993 inauguration, and again four years later. Graham's views are far more conservative and damning than Warren's, whether on sexual morality, homosexuality and (most disturbingly) AIDS and other STDs.

In 1997, Clinton presented Graham with the Congressional Gold Medal, one of the nation's highest civilian honors. There's a certain irony, of course, to Clinton's choice given his own record of sexual morality and marital fidelity, and his presidency's record on gay issues isn't one we hope Barack Obama replicates.

But the broader point is the insidious way that ideological intolerance (liberal and conservative) has grown over the years, and the divisive effect it has, eschewing debate in favor of exclusionary demands. As we saw throughout the Republican and Democratic primaries, it's not enough that candidates agree with these ideologues, they must never associate themselves with anyone who fails the litmus test.

http://citizenchris.typepad.com/citizenchris/2008/12/bill-clintons-rick-warren.html

Crain's article shows how Graham was a ruthless anti-gay homophobe over the years. Yes, Warren is on record saying some stupid comments as well on gay rights, etc., yet it has also been illustrated that there are many in the far-right evangelical factions that don't want Warren to be associated with Obama, due to Obama's support for gay rights (civil unions/domestic partnerships) and reproductive freedom of choice.

As I have stated, I'll turn my back when I'm in the Inauguration crowd in DC when Warren speaks and perhaps will wave a rainbow flag with others.

That said, where was the outrage when Clinton chose Graham? Also note that this isn't a STFU thread, just additional info on the Warren controversy.

[Starry Messenger]

1. I think the Internet really makes a difference in the level and speed

in which people are informed about things like this now. Was there this level of outrage in 1993 or 1997? How could we find out? The record would be on microfiche or on usenet archives. I might poke around.

edit: typo

[xchrom]

2. you need to go give obama -- a nice big long warm hug. nt

[NYC_SKP]

3. Thanks.

For the perspective. Technology has made scrutiny more painful and immediate.

The scorn cast upon Obama as a result lacks the historic context that might soften it.

Recommended.

[Cha]

4. It'd be cool to see millions

of rainbow flags waving in solidarity.

[noamnety]

5. I appreciate you making the gesture during the inauguration.

Also, I can't help noting that I wish people wouldn't trivialize the scope of Warren's anti-gay political activism and blatant homophobic speech by describing it as "some stupid comments on gay rights."

[NashVegas]

6. When Clinton Took Office

Gays hadn't yet been through the "open gays can serve in the military ---- >>> don't ask/don't tell" debacle, or in any other way taken a bittersweet pill along the lines of what GLBT did in California on Election Day.

If anything, GLBT was on the upswing, becoming empowered via being forced out of closets, thanks to AIDS.

[Hanse]

9. So then what's your excuse for the '97 inauguration?

[NashVegas]

17. Were There Big Gay Protests, Then?

[Hanse]

7. Yes, well... Clinton was white.

:hide:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. yeah thats why i object o warren. cos obama is black, nt

[dsc]

12. Of course all of us gays are racist

and it is perfectly fine to call us racist but God forbid we dare call anyone, at anytime, a homophobe. Never mind that we voted 70 to 23 for Obama, that is just proof of our racism.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. yup, i hate people of color. i have SUCH a self hating relationship with myself,

just after i got over the internalized homophobia, i am not in this internalized color hate..

so confusing to be me :rofl:

[NashVegas]

18. Say, Are You Going To Do This Everytime Obama Pisses Off a DU Contingent?

You know ... pop up and imply people are only causing a ruckus cause they're racists?

I'd just like to know in advance. Thanks.

[Hanse]

26. I don't know.

Are people going to scream "homophobe" everytime a white politician meets with a conservative homophobe?

Given the OP, apparently not.

[NashVegas]

28. Gosh, Good Question, I Suppose, But It's Irrelevant

And if it makes you feel good, and think you can get people to shut up, best of luck there.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. 16-11 years later if we are stll treating a minority as immaterial, it makes things sadder

not better

[dsc]

11. that is way different

Grahm already was America's pastor at that point and Clinton had no way he could avoid using him without picking a major fight. It should also be noted that Billy Grahm was no where near as conservative as Warren is. For instance on race, Grahm was positively progressive demanding that his crowds be integrated in the South in the 50's, in some cases his services were the first integrated ones since reconstruction. Yes on gay rights he was lousy but he got the job as America's pastor based on his, for the time, progressive views on race. BTW that site is one I won't take as giving us the total truth as to anyone's views. So until I see another source for Grahm's views I won't accept that the quotes are accurate.

[ellacott]

19. Graham was a little more complex

Carter didn't use him for his invocation. Clinton wasn't forced to use Graham. Graham did push for intergration at his services but it didn't last. Graham had problems seperating race and politics and was forced to choose. MLK wrote to Graham pleading with him not to have segragationist politicians on his stage at his crusades. The two chose to agree to disagree and chose to have a more "behind the scenes" interactions.

Years later Graham acknowledged that racial reconciliation was one of the areas that needed more attention.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

29. Graham made anti-Semitic comments on the Nixon tapes. nt

[mrreowwr_kittty]

30. Wait....

So if it's America's Pastor it's okay to have him do the invocation even though he's a raging bigot?

Good god you Clintonistas crack me up with the way you will twist yourself into pretzels to justify their actions! :rofl:

[Maven]

13. Fucking ex-Log-Cabinite, self-hater and homophobe apologist Chris Crain?

McClurkin defender Chris Crain? Jeff Gannon-hiring Chris Crain? Crain the fixated Clinton-hating d-bag who defended Gannon and other hypocrites like Richard Curtis?

That Chris Crain?

You're really sinking low. If you do a short search, you'll find that the same bullshit artists who told us to STFU about McClurkin cited Crain and his self-hating drivel then as an example of a more "reasonable" gay voice. You were probably one of them.

GET OVER THE PRIMARIES and grow up.

This is NOT ABOUT CLINTON, and resorting to the old "Clinton did it" bullshit isn't winning you any points. Especially when the events you're talking about happened over 15 YEARS AGO.

EDIT: In fact, you were one of the people pulling this bullshit back then. Perhaps you never read the links I provided in one particular thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4137047

[zulchzulu]

14. I knew you would chime in...

:rofl:

Me? Get over the primaries? Now, that is funny! I think the primaries went just fine, thank you very much!

One little question... why aren't someone like you that are so fixated on Warren's 1:23 stupid prayer absolutely outraged at Hillary Clinton for participating in Rick Warren's AIDS Conference in 2007? That was about a year ago...



No need to reply... I can already guess what you'll say...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. did he lie about chris crain? or are you just rehashing the primary for no good reason?

self hating people are a drag.

[zulchzulu]

20. I'm light years away from the primary season...

Also, I wanted to make a point about Graham and Clinton and yes, some find Crain as someone not fully representing the GLBT community... I felt it should be part of the full dialogue on this Warren issue.

I'm not gay and would never to pretend that I understand all the complexities of being gay. I do help out when possible (and have done so for years) on GLBT efforts and greatly want equality for all in the immediate future. I'm also not a self-hating person.... :hi:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

23. so you think because bill clinton did something 11 and 16 years ago, it makes it ok for obama?

do you not think 11-16 years things should move forward for us?

[zulchzulu]

24. Did I say it "makes it OK"?

No.

I just think it is an interesting bit of history...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. its only interesting if you have the luck to be a mere observer. as one who suffers

from the hate speech of these fuckers, its sorrowful and disheartening.

[mikelgb]

21. more are paying attention to their leaders after being fucked by Bush

[tbyg52]

22. Bingo. nt

[yardwork]

27. Thank you. I appreciate your noticing that gay people have been oppressed for a long time.

[hulklogan]

31. I was 14 years old in 1993, and hadn't yet found my big gay voice.

That's why you didn't hear any outrage from me when Clinton chose Graham.

I can't speak for the rest of the LGBT community, but I'm sure you would be hearing much of the same outrage if the people involved were Clinton/Graham in January 2009 instead of Obama/Warren.

A lot has changed in 16 years.

[Luminous Animal]

32. It pays to remember a little history...

Much of gay activism when Clinton was elected centered around funding and services for folks with AIDS. It was an urgent need that took up a lot of energy and time. Though gay rights was important, more important was keeping people in the community alive. Also, in April of 1993, Clinton released this statement in response to the LGBT march on Washington...

Also, believe it or not, there was far more activism around the issue of gays and lesbians serving in the military, than there was around marriage rights.

http://www.qrd.org/qrd/events/mow/clinton.letter.to.mow

Welcome to Washington, D.C., your nation's capital.

During my campaign and since my election, I have said that
America does not have a person to waste. Today, I want you to know
that I am still committed to that principle.

I stand with you in the struggle for equality for all Americans,
including gay men and lesbians. In this great country, founded on
the principle that all people are created equal, we must learn to put
aside what divides us and focus on what we share. We all want the
chance to excel in our work. We all want to be safe in our
communities. We all want the support and acceptance of our friends
and families.

Last November, the American people sent a message to make
government more accountable to all its citizens, regardless of race,
class, gender, disability or sexual orientation. I am proud of the
strides we are making in that direction.

The Pentagon has stopped asking recruits about their sexual
orientation and I have asked the Secretary of Defense to determine
how to implement an executive order lifting the ban on gays and
lesbians in the military by July 15.

My 1994 budget increases funding for AIDS research and my
economic plan will fully fund the Ryan White Act. Soon I will
announce a new AIDS coordinator to implement the recommendations of
the AIDS Commission reports.

I met nine days ago with leaders of the gay and lesbian
community in the Oval Office at the White House. I am told that this
meeting marks the first time in history that the President of the
United States has held such a meeting. In addition, members of my
staff have been and will continue to be in regular communication with
the gay and lesbian community.

I still believe every American who works hard and plays by the
rules ought to be a part of the national community. Let us work
together to make this vision real.

It was only a few months later that the compromise "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy was reached and, except for continuing agitation for more funding for HIV/AIDS research, the LGBT community pretty much wrote off Clinton. And he proved us right in not expending any more energy trying to influence him in regards to civil rights when he signed DOMA.

Clinton, like Bush, was really not worth the energy.

[Bluebear]

33. Translation: so there is a history of gays being sold out?

[Luminous Animal]

35. Welcome to the Democratic party!

[AntiFascist]

34. There is something else "insidious" going on, and I wish more DUers recognized it...

Obama has aligned himself with Warren and others on the issue of marriage equality. His comments at the Saddleback debate may well have been the push needed for Prop 8 to succeed. The fact that Obama opposed Prop 8 and that he supports most other gay rights issues is just cover for what really happened.

[eridani]

36. So, who was paying attention back then, anyway?

If more of us had been, we might have actually gotten universal health care. All too many us us just gave a sigh of relief that a Democrat was in, so presumably the attacks on the New Deal were now off. Not this time!