A view of what the Invocation selection means from the Other Side....

[FrenchieCat]

Without comment--

Though conservatives are excited that Barack Obama seems to have infuriated gay activists, I suspect they're privately a bit worried about the Warren pick.

Obama supporters fear that the invitation offers legitimacy to Warren and his anti-gay-marriage views -- but some conservatives wonder whether Warren's presence provides some legitimacy to the Obama presidency.

Nicole Russell of American Spectator complained, "Holding a forum forcing Obama to discuss his views is one thing. Supporting him publicly by praying/speaking at his inauguration is another. Frankly, this is a spineless move on Warren's part."

The Family Research Council opined, "Let's hope that Rick Warren will use his channel of communication to the new President to press him for more pro-family policies-rather than simply being used by Mr. Obama to make political inroads with evangelicals."

David Brody at Christian Broadcasting Network reports he's been inundated with email from angry conservative Christians.

And over at the very conservative online community Free Republic posters lashed out at Warren with as much anger as gays who critiized Obama:

Rick Warren should recuse himself from this ministerial assignment. Obama is a pro-abort extremist. That is hardly a position worth a blessing from a Christian pastor. -- by obamaisandrogynous
Pray for them, yes! try to convert them, yes! Recognize their authority over you, yes!
Support them and give them credence, no! Rick Warren is their to just cover up the smell. Front man and a shill for a corrupt presidency.
--by dirtymac

Methinks Mr. Warren's pride is getting the better of him. Giving the invocation at a presidential inauguration IS a big deal, but I'm sure that standing before Jesus on Judgement Day will make it seem less than trivial.
--by MrB

Rick Warren is one of those new age, book author, get rich thanks to Jesus like Joel Osteen - TV pastors. I thought Warren was decent but he is a phony.
--by Frantzie

Pop star preachers love fame and the company of other pop stars more than they love Christ. Avoid them and their churches.
--by pallis

Obama supports late term abortion and the killing of babies that survive abortions. That is infanticide. For Rick Warren to give the invocation at Obama's inauguration proves Warren is no true Christian. May he be shunned forever.
-- by jrooney

This is despicable.
--by trisham

Geez...the False Prophet swearing in the Anti-Christ...how nice.
--by ravingnutter

What Obama has in mind is to use religious socialists to move his socialist agenda.
--by stockpirate

Disgusting duplicity on Rick's part. Perhaps Pastor Warren didn't comprehend the signifigance of his own question he asked of the affirmative action fraud at Saddeleback forum. He certainly could not comprehend the depth of deceit in Obama's response ... surely. Seems Warren is more concerned with his own empowerment than the truth of LIFE. Satan has lots of help in that regard ...
http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/12/conservative-angst-about-obama.html

The Brody File
David Brody
CBN News Senior National Correspondent

Pro-Lifers Rip Rick Warren on Obama Invocation
December 18, 2008
So let me get straight to the point.

Liberals and gay activists aren’t happy with Barack Obama for choosing pro-life and prop 8 supporting pastor Rick Warren to give the invocation at Obama’s inaugural. But pro-life readers seem to be equally upset at Rick warren for agreeing to it.

The Brody File has been flooded with emails and most of them absolutely rip Pastor Warren for doing this. Below is but a very small sampling. I can’t reprint all of them but let me just say that pro-lifers are NOT happy with Warren at all.

read the letters...... http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/504326.aspx

Christian Conservatives Should Be Upset About Rick Warren Choice As Well
December 18, 2008

David Brody from the Christian Broadcasting Network said, “It makes a whole lot of sense…This move is also classic Obama because it is a signal to religious conservatives that he’s willing to bring in both sides to the faith discussion in this country.” What does he mean by both sides? I’m assuming that he means liberals and conservatives, but as a Bible believing Christian I only see one side - God’s. And does anyone believe that Obama will embrace Christian conservatives? I mean his theology is Marxist Black Liberation so I really don’t see that happening, nor do I think that he is a Christian although I cannot see his heart. I agree that this is a good move on Obama’s part, but my focus is on Rick Warren. Just as I went after Joel Hunter about praying at the Democratic National Convention in Denver, I’m going after Rick Warren on this. Why did he accept? If you follow my blog, you know I have very strong feelings about mega -churches. I often wonder about the message that is given inside that would be so attractive to so many people. Is it just that people are really hungry for Jesus and the salvation He provides or are they getting a touchy, feely, self-help talk? When it comes to Rick Warren all one needs to do is read his bestselling book, “The Purpose Driven Life”. The message is the latter with Warren quoting heavily from mainstream Bibles like “The Message”. The full gospel message, which includes admitting that we are sinners and recognizing that we need salvation, is absent. Just telling Jesus that you believe in Him is not enough. Even Satan believes in God.

I also question how someone could appear to endorse a President who supports infanticide and Marxism. We should all pray for our President regardless of who that person is, but should we endorse that person? Of course, I do not know what Pastor Warren will be praying. I hope that he sticks to praying for God’s guidance and I hope that he uses the world stage that he will have to talk about Jesus (as Billy and Franklin Graham always do) and a need for this country to return to its Judeo-Christian roots before God shakes the dust of us from His robes.

And speaking of Billy Graham, this “shift” seems very significant to me. Billy Graham has given the Inaugural Invocation for as long as I can remember and even before I was a spark in my parents’ eyes. I believe Billy Graham to be a true man of God who has not used his celebrity for personal gain. Franklin appears to be following in his father’s footsteps and would seem the likely heir to the Inaugural Invocation in the spirit of tradition. I’ll never forget Katie Couric interviewing Franklin Graham and how he used the opportunity to minister to her directly and tell her the gospel message personally as if no one was watching. That is someone who has their heart in the right place. So is this shift coming perhaps from God Himself? Have we turned our backs on Him to such a degree that He is handing us over now? Of course, I would expect both Grahams to either decline the offer or use the opportunity to spread the gospel and strongly condemn the areas of disagreement with Barack Obama, yes even the gay marriage stuff.

But what we will get is a feel good message about America having a chance to save the world now - instead of Jesus. We’ll get to see Rick Warren taking over the mantle of “America’s preacher” and having his bloated ego stoked even more. For those Christians that will attack me on my feelings just remember how harshly Rick Warren went after Barack Obama after Obama’s answer on the whole abortion question and when life starts answered, “That’s above my pay grade.” Oh wait…he didn’t go after him. And that shows the true colors of this “man of God”.
http://freedomswings.wordpress.com/2008/12/18/chrisitan-conservatives-should-be-upset-about-rick-warren-choice-as-well/

[Clio the Leo]

1. Sounds like a post I read today in freeperland...

.... here it is again.....

Wow. Is this what they call triangulation? I want to be pissed at Warren, but the lefties attacking the Obama Queen makes me pause. I hope this was accidental and it is not an indication of things to come. If Obama can neutralize the opposition by fragmenting us, this will be a frustrating eight years.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2151737/posts

(emphasis mine)

[FrenchieCat]

4. They are still pissed at Warren........

But are willing to swallow in order to save face.

[DJ13]

2. Both the Left & the Right see Warren as a phony

So who was Obama trying to impress with this move?

[FrenchieCat]

5. They only see Warren as a phony as of last week.

Some at DU turned on Obama as of last week.

Perhaps that is why Obama is not trying to "impress" anyone. Maybe he's just doing what he said that he would do....and if this is so, guess he'll have to take the heat for it.

[quakerboy]

31. Not true

To the true Evangelical, Warren has always been a questionable figure, dubious, doubted, a potential liberal. He is right on that edge where they will read his book for a bible study group but only after the leader warns that he is not an authority, and has many questionable ideas that will need to be filtered out as they try to learn from him how they can grow their own little mega-churches.

[firedupdem]

7. Neither. n/t

[firedupdem]

3. I knew they were ticked too. Both sides communicating. What a thought? n/t

[knowbody0]

6. sigh

[bevoette]

10. indeed...what a novelty (nm)

[FrenchieCat]

12. Mainstream Americans who work everyday and worry about whether they will make it

as the economy comes crashing down, don't give a shit one way or the other. They don't know Warren for his Homophobic views as much as they know him for the book that he has sold to more households in American, short of the Bible. The book doesn't deal with his views on Gay Marriage and such.

It actually seems as though this invite will actually neuter Warren, more than anything....as the light is shined on him and his true ideology. Mainstream Americans don't buy books from Ideological controversial Preachers. Perhaps it wasn't intended, but that exposure might end up nor being such a bad thing on the long term.

[JoFerret]

50. Yet more fantasy land

frivolity

[John Q. Citizen]

8. Seems many people realize that both gays and evangelicals are being exploited for political gain.

It's not surprising that people see it. It would be surprising if they didn't.

[FrenchieCat]

13. At the end of the arc, the two points shall meet.

[John Q. Citizen]

26. i don't know about any arc. i do know about exploitation.

And I also know that evangelicals leave the church every day. Some become Catholics. Some become agnostics.

But human rights aren't opinions.

And gay people can be evangelicals, or catholics or agnostics. But they can't not be gay.


And you are correct. The majority of Obama supporters will never even be aware of how Obama exploited gays. Yet some will be made aware.

[FrenchieCat]

36. That is the point.....and you made it; "evangelicals leave the church every day....."

Guess seeing the president fail and folks not getting their rights is a hope of yours? Why else would you talk in absolutes in plain negativity for the hopes of so many, so soon? The 4 years ain't going nowhere; they are ahead of us is what I'm saying.

It is quite telling that you speak of the future as though you know what is to be, which in reality, none of us do. That means that this is you talking, not based on any real facts, but based on what is your wish. What satisfaction do you gain in hoping for the worse?

As for what "Obama supporters" (so some here don't support the President, including yourself I gather...excellent admission) will be aware of, my hope is that the Gay Community will one day get rights that they never had before due to, in part, the work of this President. That's a a hope, as I don't have a crystal ball....and by the way, neither do you.

[John Q. Citizen]

38. You misconstrue my point. Exploiting gays for political benefits is worse than

exploiting evangelicals for political benefit since evangelicals are such voluntarily. They could chose not to be exploited by leaving Warren, for instance and hanging with someone who isn't hanging with Obama, or they can become agnostics.

But gays are exploited by virtue of their being gay and they can't not be gay. So they have less options than evangelicals who decide not to be exploited.

Having a right to a family is a very basic human right.

I hope Obama fails in inviting a bigot to be honored and glorified during the nations inauguration. I hope he is forced to speak out and condemn Warren and his bigoted attacks on human rights. It's the right thing to do.

If you think human rights are the same thing as human opinions, then there's a problem right there that needs addressing off the get go.

So what I want to know is why Obama picked this fight for nothing? And picked it against the weakest people out there?


the difference between us isn't that we want different outcomes. The difference is that i believe in being proactive and not trusting Obama to do the right thing. Especially when I've already seen Obama do the wrong thing. You nbelieve Obama will do the right thing (undefined but whatever it is will be magically delicious) and then you will get what you want without having to go do it yourself.

I know the corporations are already deeply imbeded and i can only hope that people together can make demands on our leaders so as to add a little balance.

Yes, I hope Obama fails in this entire invitation and has to back down and put somebody up in front of the people of the world who isn't a proud bigot. It's just so wrong to send that message. I'm looking to see Obama get up and lead on human rights. On civil rights.

I'll help him if he wants. What does he want me to do to help secure full rights for all people? What does Obama suggest? Does he want me to like Warren, and what he stands for?

[JoFerret]

42. I think that this particular "arc"

of indeterminate length does not bend toward justice.

[JoFerret]

40. What is that gnomic

nonsense meant to mean?

[democrattotheend]

9. If Obama is pissing off DUers and freepers

Then he's probably doing something right, since 80% of the country falls somewhere in between ideologically.

[bevoette]

11. absolutely (nm)

[Zynx]

24. And in all honesty DUers and Freepers both aren't right about very much.

[John Q. Citizen]

28. Yes he is pleasing the corporations so we know it is just and good.

[tblue37]

47. That's not necessarily true. The MSM piss off both

progressives and RW fundies, but that doesn't mean they are doing the right thing. We see them as being in thrall to corporate interests (which they obviously are), whereas the RW sees them as the "liberal" media.

Sometimes when someone pisses off everyone, that person is just being a pain in the ass.

[otohara]

52. You Forgot Those Hollywood Liberals

and those pesky gay folks, and liberal groups .... how about just the ordinary American's like my 89 year old aunt, or the many who voted for Obama because he said he wanted to heal and bring us together?

This move isn't exactly bringing people together, is it?

When Warren's fat ugly face pops up on the jumbo monitors come 1/20/09, what do you think the response will be? Will he be met with cheers and applause, or a chorus of boos? I'm guessing the boos will prevail and it will be a whole lot more than the total membership of DU and freeper land.

[BlooInBloo]

14. The only question is whether or not the benefit of taking some of the wind outta their sails...

is WORTH it. I don't think it is - I don't think it's really even close.

EDIT: Reason: Wind is not something their lacking in.

[FrenchieCat]

16. The question before that is whether Obama truly did this for political reasons....

Whether he did or didn't, he is taking the heat....apparently.

Time will tell if there are benefits. That's the unanswered part of the question.

[BlooInBloo]

20. (shrug) I'm not much for means justifying the ends reasoning....

No matter what hyperbolic thought-experiments one conjures up.

But even if I *were* inclined to that sort of justification, it's predictable - and I do hereby predict - that the benefits of Obama's choice won't come anywhere near outweighing its cynicism.

But you're right - it's a prediction.

[JoFerret]

41. The benefits to this moral appeasement will be

a partially clothed emperor

[Danger Mouse]

15. Stop, stop, reading this trash almost makes me like Warren.

:cry:

[FrenchieCat]

17. You would be doing so at you peril!

It is not that he is good. It is that they may be even worse.

[Danger Mouse]

21. No, he's awful. They're just somewhere beyond awful.

[leftstreet]

19. Fickle boy. Just a coupla weeks ago you were lusting after Putin

[Danger Mouse]

22. ...

:cry:

[David Zephyr]

18. So what's your point? You are trying to falsely make up a moral equivalence here?

What did gay and lesbian Americans do to deserve such treachery from Obama?

[IndianaGreen]

23. Obama is in the role of the school yard bully, beating up the gay kid

in order to validate himself to others.

[leftstreet]

25. ...

:spray:

[David Zephyr]

30. Great analogy that every gay boy and lesbian girl will understand immediately.

Yeah, the straight kid that was seen to often with the queer and wants to make damn sure everyone knows he's no queer himself.

Excellent analogy.

[quakerboy]

32. BS

Obama is in the unenviable roll of the teacher, with both the bully and the gay kid in his class. And he has been instructed to run the school play(and make sure everyone has a part), but his only supplies are 3 rolls of crepe paper and a IOU for $5. Plus 1/3 of the class is special ed, and another third of the class are ADHD. And the parents of the kids in the class will get to decide whether to fire him at the end of the year or not. I think thats a little more representative of where we sit at this juncture in time.

[Shiver]

45. "...but his only supplies are 3 rolls of crepe paper and a IOU for $5..."

:spray:

[TomInTib]

27. Obama, a Divider, not a Uniter.

This bullshit has turned DU into the Hatfields and the McCoys.

Looks as if the same thing has happened over in Looneyville, as well.

It reminds me of the old Kinky Friedman joke about dealing with an hysterical woman, "Take one step back and kick her right in the crotch. First thing you gotta do, is get their attention".

Well, they have ours.

[FrenchieCat]

34. The Jury has not yet deliberated the verdict as to whether

Obama is a divider or a uniter.

Time will tell...and it will take more than 4 days to know.....certainly.

[AlCzervik]

29. when propositions are on state ballots attempting to remove civil rights from those

Conservative groups please let me know.

[FrenchieCat]

33. Conservatives throwing Warren under the bus,

helps them pass propositions how? :shrug:

[AlCzervik]

35. you missed the point entirely. Conservatives have had no rights taken away

they have no reason to complain.

[FrenchieCat]

37. They seem to think so......

Perhaps they are having other problems, and using this as an excuse to have something to lash out about.

[moriah]

39. Obama truly is a uniter....

He's pissed off everybody! Good show, man!

[zulchzulu]

43. Thanks for pointing out that part of the subtext about Warren is the Far Right...

...doesn't think Warren is right-wing enough.

I've pointed that out as well. Add that Reverend Lowery gets the final word with the benediction.

[Recursion]

44. Like Obama, Warren marks a generation gap

Warren was born I think in 1963. He catches the same kind of flak from culture warriors on the right that Obama does from culture warriors on the left. In both cases the issue isn't really that they are "too liberal" or "too conservative" though it gets called that. It's that neither wants to shun the other side for its disagreement.

[yellerpup]

46. Nice work, Frenchie!

Pleased to K&R!

[crispini]

48. "I mean his theology is Marxist Black Liberation"

My GOD when will I learn not to read DU while drinking coffee! :rofl:

[1776Forever]

49. After a lot of research on Warren I posted this - I think this is what Warren wants out of this.....

As stated in my post from an article from Time Magazine, Bono, Obama, Hillary and others have "approved" of his PEACE plan and I think this is the first step for Warren to get backing and probably funding for this "mission" to bring the whole world to his table. It also has an article link to the Ugandan Ministry Warren backed anti-gay mission of the church there and in other African countries.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8022615&mesg_id=8022615

[PerpetuallyDazed]

51. K & R! n/t