Giving Warren more attention than he deserves HELPS Warren get free press

[zulchzulu]

I disagree with Warren as a choice, but he's going to do the invocation, which lasts for about a minute. Lowery will do the benediction at the end, which will last about a minute.

Turn the TV on or off whenever you want. Or watch... I'll be in DC for the event so I will turn my back when he speaks.

We all need to be watching what is going on in the meantime leading up the the Inauguration.

Giving Warren more attention than he deserves is EXACTLY what he wants. If you want him to get more people to buy his books, DVDs, go to his web site and give him free press, by all means help him out.

Warren thanks you for giving him free press and extra attention. I would bet that he is getting much more web traffic to his web site and perhaps is selling more products from his site as well. He's going to be doing more interviews on shows and will get even more known.

Protest more! Write Letters to the Editor! Blog your ass off about him! Better yet, demonize him so that half wits who don't even know who he is find out about him! Free press! GREAT for Warren!

Me? The HELL with Warren and the horse he rode in on. I disagree with him as a choice, but the probability is very high that he is going to do the invocation.

I'll give Reverend Lowery more attention instead. His views on gay marriage (he supports it) and equal civil rights for all is absolutely what I agree on and would rather have him getting more free press, media exposure and interviews.

This isn't a STFU screed on Warren. Do whatever you want. I'm sure this OP will be taken out of context, but all I'm saying is that the more attention you give Warren, the better off he is. Yeah, the Hitler analogies, the David Duke analogies, the "Warren is the devil" analogies... yeah, I get it. Duh.

It's just that all this reminds me of how the Religious Reich made huge protests over the controversial (and not that great) movie "The Last Temptation of Christ". The first weekend the movie came out had dreadful attendance, but the more vocal the Religious Reich were protesting the movie, it was suddenly a great success.

If you REALLY think you can stop Warren from doing the invocation, please continue your efforts. But remember that you are also giving Warren more attention that the bastard deserves.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. All Obama has to do is remove him and put someone who isn't a homophobe/bigot

That's all. Nothing complicated.

[Captain Hilts]

3. and who doesn't condemn a large % of the viewing audience to burn in hell, that's all. nt

[zulchzulu]

5. Do you really think Obama will remove him?

I don't.

Again, I disagree with the choice of Warren, just as I thought Reverend Billy Graham doing invocations for the last five presidents sucked too. Then again, I don't even pay attention to invocations in inaugurations, since I am fairly agnostic and only have my personal religious views I keep to myself.

I'd rather focus on people like Reverend Lowery and help inject his correct views about equal rights and gay marriage and put Radio Silent on asshats like Warren. Maybe it's just me, but giving Warren free press is exactly what I would not want to do.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

35. I don't know if Obama will remove him. Right now Obama is hiding from the storm.

I figure the reason Obama is dead silent despite the perfect storm brewing around the inauguration, is because he's trying to figure out how to remove his feet from the shit he stepped in when HE selected this homophobe-bigot for this position of importance in his inauguration.

Obama COULD select one of MANY unknown preachers who DO NOT spend their time doing any of these continual, typical, Rick Warren activities:

1) Nurturing and growing hatred towards gays
2) Asking the congregation to vote for prop 8, amendment 2 or any of the other anti-gay legislation
3) Asking the congregation to vote REPUBLICAN
4) Telling the congregation the government should have control over women's uteruses
5) Telling everyone on TV that he loves gays because he helps collect money for the "gay AIDS problem"
6) All the other shit Rick Warren spends his time doing.

IF the bigot-homophobe doesn't like losing his position of importance, tough shit. He shouldn't be such a pig about human beings.

[cali]

10. Actually, for him and his presidency, that's very complicated.

Now clearly I don't approve at all of his giving Warren a prominent place on the podium but withdrawing the invitation would simply ignite another firestorm. Much as I'd like to see it happen, I get why it's not going to.

[Critters2]

30. He did it to Wright. After he said he never would.

Time to do it again.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

36. Why would it be complicated? Think about it. What would happen if he removed him?

WE are his base, not the fundies that never voted for him.

[polichick]

17. Yep - easy as sweet potato pie! (Seriously, one simple statement...

...which I'd be glad to write for him.)

[Sarah Ibarruri]

37. :-) Yep. He's the president. He doesn't *have* to have a hate-filled a-h in his inauguration

I agree all it takes is one statement. I'll bet his staff is trying desperately trying to fix this thing that should never have been gotten into. Why Obama stepped in this shit, I'll never know.

[MadBadger]

2. I cant believe (lie, of course I can believe) that DU is still talking about this....

like it happened last night.

[Deja Q]

6. Neither can I.

Oh well. By the time it's April people will have found something else.

Still, the economy problem has been around far longer and people still talk about it. 3 years from now, Warren will still be top of everyone's lists. See, he's more important than global warming, balancing the budget, and alternative energy combined.

[No Elephants]

29. Sure. Bc standing up for civil rights means you want the planet and economy to die. Riiiigt

[QC]

4. Ignoring things makes them go away.

I would argue the opposite of what you are saying here, namely that all this attention to Warren's actual beliefs and actions is wrecking his carefully constructed "moderate and thoughtful evangelical" image.

He's about as moderate as Pat Robertson, despite the Hawaiian shirts, and now more people know that.

[zulchzulu]

7. Precisely my point... now more people know Warren...

...which is what his marketing staff are all giggling with joy about...

:wow:

[QC]

9. But you think that having Warren headline the most historic inauguration in history,

one that could well be seen by a billion people worldwide, will not increase public awareness of him?

This makes no sense whatsoever, even less sense than the peculiar notion that putting a bigot and a non-bigot on the program balances everything out.

[MadBadger]

12. No, Obama is going to headline the inauguration.

You think Warren is going to be the biggest act there? Thats just not true.

[zulchzulu]

13. So if Warren's 1:23 invocation is so important, then Lowery's benediction will be equally important

You can't think the Warren's invocation will be more important than Lowery's benediction.

Yes, Warren will put some prayer together. I would certainly bet that it will not mention gay marriage or anything about gay rights. I would bet that Lowery WILL say something about how we need equal rights for all.

People won't be tuning into the Inauguration from around the World to see what some two-bit charlatan is going to say. They will tune in to see Obama. And Lowery and his message will end the ceremony. Let's focus on that.

[jonnyblitz]

23. but Warren's invocation will overshadow Lowery's because

the controversial is what is always focused on. Lowery might as well not even speak.

[zulchzulu]

41. Perhaps you aren't familiar with Reverend Lowery

Check him out:

www.thinkprogress.org/2006/02/07/lowery-standing-ovation/

Lowery said this right in front of Bush at the Coretta Scott King eulogy:

We know now there were no weapons of mass destruction over there. But Coretta knew and we know that there are weapons of misdirection right down here. Millions without health insurance. Poverty abounds. For war billions more but no more for the poor!

Lowery will get the last word at the inauguration. He's been waiting for this moment all his life and you can bet he will have something to say.

[kenny blankenship]

11. You must be really pissed off at Obama then for elevating this dangerous man to national prominence

My advice is to relax, because it's going to happen anyway. Obama has some folks he wants to push away from him and this is how he chooses to go about it.

[NWHarkness]

8. Silence is acceptance n/t

[zulchzulu]

14. Bumper sticker mentality is cute, but it doesn't fully address the issue

Again, these little slogans, while cute and whatever, don't get to the heart of what the final message is.

Do we focus on Warren, who will do the invocation, and give him free press? Or do we focus on bigger issues and perhaps on how Reverend Lowery, fully for gay marriage and equal rights for all, as the person who will close the ceremony...

Make Warren richer and get free press by protesting him if you want. That's your choice.

[NWHarkness]

21. You focus where you want, I'll focus where I want

But, thanks for the condescension.

[marimour]

15. my sentiments exactly!

It just gives him more access to prime-time interviews where he can go on tv and act like he is compassionate and just makes the left seem even further away from mainstream.

[Rockholm]

16. The world will get to see him for all his evilness.

[polichick]

20. What they'll see is a guy like Obama legitimizing it, and thinking Warren must be okay.

[No Elephants]

25. Not only legitimizing it, but honoring him and thereby seeming to endorse his views. By raising our

voices, we have forced Obama to say that he disagrees with Warren and we have made Warren defensive. I think those are both good things and more good things will come from this for a long time to come, like ever-expanding ripples from a pebble thrown in a river. I am very glad we raised out voices.

[Rockholm]

34. That is the certain downside.

I do not agree with this choice at all. Obama really screwed us over.

[Political Tiger]

45. What will they think when they see Rev Lowery speak?

n/t

[Fearless]

18. Fun huh... and we're no better either.

[AtomicKitten]

19. more attention ---> more interviews for him to say incendiary shit ---> more outrage

and the downward spiral continues

I look forward to 1-21-09. :hi:

[Maven]

22. I think your subject line just proved the principal reason Obama's decision was dead wrong.

Warren has parlayed this little honor into an entire media tour.

[No Elephants]

28. Barack's Merry Christmas, present to Rick.

[lwcon]

24. Ugh, perhaps my least favorite line of argument

http://vastleft.blogspot.com/2006/05/watchdogs-are-our-best-friends.html

[WinkyDink]

26. I think the Inaugural Invocation surpasses any other "free press by DU opinions" RW might be reaping

[No Elephants]

27. Warren has already had a ton of publicity, most of it catering to him. Now, he is getting

publicity that brands him as a hater and a bigot and someone who calls himself a Christian but does not preach or act like one. I have less than zero problem getting him that kind of publicity. And if it helps one hater sell even more books to his fellow haters that the bizillions he's already sold them, so the hell what? I prefer mking one multi-millionaire a little richer to having my President seem to the country and the world to be endorsing Warren's views. Not only that, but, if we remain silent, we appear to be endorsing them as well. No thanks.

Keep protesting folks. I will.

[chascarrillo]

31. I remenber the same thing being said about Sarah Palin.

And you know what? All that added extra attention actually helped us by exposing one thing after another. In many cases, it fell to bloggers to pick up the slack left by the traditional media, who were starstruck by her.

So, hopefully the same thing happens to Warren.

[leftofthedial]

32. yes. we should all just remain forever silent about bigots.

:sarcasm:

[noamnety]

33. why are you blaming us instead of blaming Obama?

Obama is the one that gave him the spotlight.

Blaming the victims of his oppression for speaking out against it is offensive on several levels.

[ProSense]

38. Welcome to GD-Rick Warren:

503 threads Since Dec. 17.

The dead horse has been beaten to ashes, and Obama is still not going to change his mind.

[yowzayowzayowza]

39. Hiz higher profile also affords us the opportunity to vilify him.

Itz also reasonable to expect that Obamaz speech will ostracize those positions.

I think the heat hez receiving is great and should be sustained. Drag 'em outa the closet and expose his immorality.

[zulchzulu]

42. Actually if you watch him, he's all over the place on his opinions about gays

One interview (done with him able to pimp his shit), he says he loves gays but not gay marriage. Then he's on another report getting free press, and he says shit about how we all need to get along.

He knows how to play for the cameras. He is a conman. If you give him free press, he's media savvy enough to know how to play both sides, act reasonable and "authoritive" and gets to pimp hos crap.

So people give him more attention than he deserves and he plays them for a fool.

It's well past to try to censor Warren. At this point, let him say some prayer.

Let Lowery blast away and have the final word.

[Balderdash]

46. The more I read your replies the more it becomes

obvious that this is another stfu lgbt people and sit down.

The ultimate tragedy is not the oppression and cruelty by the bad people but the silence over that by the good people. - Martin Luther King

[yowzayowzayowza]

49. No one is telling you to be silent about Warren. NO ONE!

I'll gladly help ya tare him a new asshole!!!! However, attacking your allies for a difference of opinion on tactics is counterproductive, esp erroneously painting 'em as bigots for the disagreement.

[Two Americas]

50. whoa

First off, it is the other way around. People objected to the Warren selection, and then they were attacked. Then they objected to being attacked, and now you want to blame them for that, as well.

In addition, I want to bring attention to a new idea we are seeing here today, in th ever-evolving arguments that are being used to marginalize and isolate the people in the GLBT community and their allies here - this idea that the problem, the trouble, has been caused by people being called bigots.

That inside out and backwards reasoning has been injected into the national political discussion by the right wing propagandists. They would have us believe that it is not racism itself that is the problem, rather it is people being called racists. It is not the ongoing assault on the working people that is the problem, it is people objecting to that because they are advocating "class warfare."

I think we should all reject the "reverse racism" argument in all of its variations and permutations. The purpose of those tactics is to mislead and confuse people.

It would be impossible to talk about injustice and inequality at all if we all knuckled under to this idea - that what we should worry about and fear is someone being called a bigot, rather than the bigotry itself.

I don't know if anyone has actually been called a bigot. Certainly people have pointed out bigoted arguments, and countered bigoted arguments. Others have the said "how dare you call me a bigot" even when they had not been called a bigot.

So it is OK to mock and ridicule, attack and smear people in the GLBT community and their allies, but it is not OK to fight back against that for fear of committing this supposedly terrible crime of calling bigotry bigotry for fear that someone might be offended by that? Even if true, even if some have been called names, that is dwarfed by the original offense and the social issue here is human beings subjected to persecution and abuse.

This is all so convoluted and complicated, that it is becoming increasingly difficult to discuss, and I don't think that is accidental. Raising this "how dare you call people bigots" red herring is an intentional tactic to create confusion and complicate the issue, in my opinion. It is the tactic the right wingers have perfected - turning everything inside out and backwards, so that the persecutors can be portrayed as victims and the victims portrayed as persecutors.

[yowzayowzayowza]

52. Ummm, ok, well. Ah, lemme no when ya figger out the...

circular firing squad. I stand by my point.

[Two Americas]

53. circular firing squad

We hardly hear that talking point any more.

[yowzayowzayowza]

54. Play whatever talking point mind games ya want.

I stand by my point.

[Two Americas]

56. where?

Where are people "painting 'em as bigots?" That is the point you are standing by, yes? That may have happened, but it is rare.

What I see is people claiming they have been called a bigot when they have not - their defenses of the Warren selection were dismantled, and they are embarrassed by that. So they resort to accusing people of calling them bigots to bail themselves out of an untenable position and save face. That's what I see.

[yowzayowzayowza]

57. Ahh, my bad. Didn't see where you were going with that.

As I'm still comfortable with my defense of the selection, I've no reason to be embarrassed. Nice try tho.

[1776Forever]

40. Dare you to read this - Do you really think this will get on the MSM? Really?

The Global Ambition of Rick Warren

By David Van Biema Thursday, Aug. 07, 2008

http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/21875.htm

:popcorn: :hide:

[AntiFascist]

43. Sorry but I disagree...

it is the mainstream media which has given Warren more exposure than he deserves. Ann Curry was even promoting his book during her interview. What exposure we give him here on DU is intended to open peoples' eyes to the real issues and will have little effect on the mass population, which has already been tainted by the exposure of this slime.

[Clio the Leo]

44. You got that right......

... if my mother, who doesn't give a flyin' flip about politics knew the story, then that's sayting something.

Without giving the press a story "the left is upset" then Warren would never have even been mentioned until Jan 20th and even then only in passing. What we're doing is enlarging the platform he has to spout his BS.

And for Barack to disinvite him now .... make the story EVEN bigger (and makes Barack look like a punk who cant make his own decisions.)

[thewiseguy]

47. Doing the invocation = Less attention for Warren?

[David Zephyr]

48. No one at the DU can possible "give Warren more attention" than Obama did.

Over a billion people will see our next president standing and smiling along side that motherfucker.

And I could care fucking less now.

It's the image Obama wanted and the image he will have...forever in my mind.

Betrayal.

[EFerrari]

51. Warren has a huge, self-sufficient PR apparatus. n/t

[RetroLounge]

55. Yes, of course, we should sit down and be quiet.

just ignore them, they will go away...

right?

:puke:

RL