I think a lot of people here didn't understand Obama when he

[dkf]

kept on talking about new politics vs. old politics.

Old politics is where you only have people who agree with you ala George W. Bush. New politics is where you invite people to the table who don't agree with you 100% but who agree with you on things where we can make progress, like global warming and like alleviating poverty.

Some here want old politics except have it run by the left wing, where Obama has never been anyway. That is highly unrealistic and not what he promised.

Let's face it...supporting Gay Marriage isn't mainstream yet. If it were surely liberal California would have voted in support of it.

And Obama has never been the kind of guy for dramatic moves. He's simply not. If you were expecting that, I think you got him wrong.

[crappyjazz]

1. I wasn't it expecting it or even hoping for it

I also wasn't expecting a place of honour for a bigot and hate-mongerer

[NWHarkness]

2. Please stop patronizing

Just because people disagree with your opinion does not mean they understand the situation less than you do.

[saracat]

4. Exactly.

[dkf]

7. So if they understood it, whats with all the Warren posts?

It kind of fits in exactly with what Obama was saying.

[NWHarkness]

9. As I said, some people don't agree with Obama on this matter

Why is that so hard to understand?

[Fovea]

3. For eight years and more

we have had to listen to the Holy Roller right.

It would hurt no one for them to STFU for a bit.
Particularly not them.

For the past six years they have been blowing just to make noise.
I am ready for somebody from U.U. to preach to the choir.

How about a Wiccan?
We are not specifically a Christian nation, according to Jefferson.

[dkf]

6. Yeah but Obama has made a point of stressing his Christianity

more to counter the Muslim thing but having a Wiccan probably wouldn't do him much good.

[Fovea]

15. That illustrates the difference between

philosophy and posture.

One is done for consistency, the other for approval.

It is just another way Christianity has eroded the barrier between Church and State
that we continue the idiotic idea that a public religious benediction
is somehow fitting in this multi-cultural world.

How about we just have someone talk for a moment about the wonder of self government
and get on with it?

Otherwise why not have someone sacrifice a Bull to Zeus?
At least the homeless would have a meal out of it.

[katandmoon]

5. I understood him perfectly and I'm not a bit surprised he's bending over for Warren again

Not surprised at all.

[dkf]

8. I don't like to call it "bending over" but basically that has been his life's MO.

If not, he would be just as pissed off at white people as Rev. Wright.

[Cha]

49. Oh No, he wouldn't be "just as pissed

off at White People as Rev White". Obama is a different generation and he was raised by White People in Hawai'i and Indonesia.

[NYC_SKP]

10. methinks a very few people are very very noisy lately.

and some of them are downright mean.

I'm still pissed at what happened with Jackeens_for_Obama, who was pushed over the edge with all the nastiness here lately.

[otohara]

14. A Very Few?

because as we all know, it's only those gay groups and liberal groups who have been noisy lately. That's what the main stream media says, so it must be true. Ordinary folks, are just fine with a big fat bigot being given this honor.

[polichick]

17. My mother, a mainstream seventy-something Christian, is extremely...

...disappointed in Obama. Her minister has been speaking out about fundie hatred ~ we need lots more of that!

[NYC_SKP]

18. A very few have been mean and nasty, yes.

And some, who elsewhere have said that they are now saving up to defeat Obama in 2012, never supported him to begin with and are using this issue as a way to legitimize their attacks on other good members.


That is pathetic and it has nothing to do with Rick Warren.

[otohara]

32. Just Because Rick Warren Says NO HOMOS With A Smile

don't make him mean and nasty?

[NYC_SKP]

42. I don't know how you got that out of what I wrote.

No doubt, he's mean and nasty and actually evil.

His nastiness, however, should not give license to outraged members being mean and nasty to other DU members.

And, don't get me wrong, the meaness and nastiness was flying from both directions.

That's the troubling part right there, that we should be at each other's throats when we all agree substantially that Warren should die, but that we have differences on how we should express our outrage and how much we should punish Obama and one another over it.

[kath]

52. well, some of us are from the democratic wing of the Democratic party.

and we fuckin' hate all the Repub-lite corporatist bullshit that has taken over the party.

[polichick]

16. Are you kidding me? She started those nasty threads herself...

...when she could have just gone on with her business, ignoring what she didn't understand.

Nobody pushed her over the edge ~ she brought it on herself.

[NYC_SKP]

19. The treads she started she started because of personal attacks on her elsewhere.

I was following very closely.

And some, who elsewhere have said that they are now saving up to defeat Obama in 2012, never supported him to begin with and are using this issue as a way to legitimize their attacks on other good members.

That is pathetic and it has nothing to do with Rick Warren.

[AllentownJake]

22. Glad to see your playing moderator.

Tombstoning me yet for my lack of loyalty...

:evilgrin:

[NYC_SKP]

27. Maybe you didn't see the bullying. It wasn't pretty. nt

[AllentownJake]

29. I got into a fight with her

and she was able to make me happy with her response...and I don't think I'm an easy person to get along with when I think I'm right on here.

She had the ability she chose to step across the line. There were two threads she posted that were absolutely shameless and one is responsible for their own actions.

[NYC_SKP]

39. You are right.

And she wrote a pretty complete and sincere general apology and goodbye thread.

I hope you caught it.

The old "two wrongs don't make a right" saw comes to mind.

The escalation left no one unhurt and no one blameless.

[AllentownJake]

41. Just so you know this isn't going to get better

There are going to be times I'm on Obama's side and times I'm arguing against a specific policy. I'm not going back into lock step mode till around June 2012 assuming there is no real primary.

[NYC_SKP]

47. Fine with me, quite rational.

I read another's post today who said in no uncertain terms that they are now saving money to defeat him in 2012.

And he's not even yet in office.

[AllentownJake]

48. Yeah well people were threatning Hillary with a Primary challenge in 2010 7 months ago

Now she's Sec. of State.

The world changes.

[AllentownJake]

21. Yes because the thread calling everyone a racist was so enlightning

It should of stuck to pictures of Obama with sunglasses.

BTW that poster could articulate a positive view very well, that was very well responded to. When I argued with that poster I was surprised at the well articulated response and other people were happy with it. They went off the rails for attention because the picture threads weren't getting attention that day. IMHO.

[polichick]

26. That's how it seemed to me too - for once people didn't gush over her pics.

[AllentownJake]

30. It gets nasty in here at times and its going to get nastier

People better toughen up. I don't know what they were thinking that Barack was going to win and nobody would ever be angry or disagree with anything he did? :shrug:

[polichick]

31. Some posters seem very uncomfortable when people disagree with Obama...

...on anything ~ but Obama himself chooses advisors who dare to disagree with him.

imo you can feel very strongly that Obama has made a boneheaded decision and still strongly support his presidency.

[AllentownJake]

37. Its quite ridiculous they are like children when mommy and daddy fight.

[polichick]

38. Maybe they come from families who didn't disagree and still love...

Weird for those of us whose families spent hours at the dinner table talking (sometimes heatedly) about politics.

[AllentownJake]

40. Not my concern

I expect they will organize and start a banning list soon. I look at my own behavior during the primary right now shamefully and some of the people who I really liked back than are the same ones now trying to demand total fealty to Obama....not making excuses but I was new back than and didn't realize that was standard operating procedure for that group with everything.

[Solon]

33. Pushed Jackeens over the edge, really?

:eyes:

[NYC_SKP]

44. Not to lessen her responsibility in it, but yes, ganged up and pushed her on.

Attacking her gift and her hobby and her passion with images.

It was more than childish, it was bullying.

And because a few members were upping the hate and knew of it, it was gang-bullying.

And she wrote a pretty heart-felt and sincere apology thread.

[AllentownJake]

46. She brought that on herself

The post where she tried to satarize DU at the time and her attackers was what led to her being told to go post another picture thread.

[Skittles]

54. it's more than a few

thank goodness more than a few stand up for civil rights and decency

[Deja Q]

11. Eloquent

:thumbsup:

[glowing]

12. Let's face it minority groups need protection from the masses because minorities

tend to be discriminated against and have their freedoms denied. Or do you think abolishing slavery was mainstream, or desegregating schools, or women voting, or fill in blank. The least among us need the most from us.

[Bluebear]

13. It's the law in several states, what do you mean it's not "mainstream" yet?

[AllentownJake]

20. Well for the number of Pastors who ended under the bus this year

It seems the only one who is spared that fate is the one that says offensive things about the gay community the marriage issue totally aside.

:shrug:

EPIC FAIL

Same Politics. Same Bullshit. Not change I can believe in.

[Bjorn Against]

23. How is caving into the right-wing "new politics"?

I have been watching the Democrats cave in for far too long, there is absolutely nothing new about this. Progressives and the GLBTI community have continuously been thrown under the bus, you can try prettying it up by spinning it as "new politics" but it the same crap we have been seeing for years.

[LWolf]

24. I understood perfectly, thanks.

I knew that the "change" Obama stood for was to embrace the right, and the republican party, while spurning the left, including the left wing of his own party.

It never was about inclusiveness. It was, and is, about redefining the Democratic Party; purging the left, and inviting the center and right.

[Captain Hilts]

25. Why is no one from the Flat Earth Society speaking just because we think the earth is round?

[makinguphumans]

28. He needs to make bold moves for civil rights for ALL.

[WeDidIt]

34. Read my sig.

[Cleita]

35. The only problem is that he seems to be including everyone at his table,

including some certifiable right wing loonies, but no one so far from the left has gotten an invitation. What's that about? That's not inclusive. I want to see Greenies, and commies there too if he really wants to listen to everyone.

[leftofthedial]

36. so much for the entire concept of change.

you killed that one off quite efficiently. :thumbsup:

[graywarrior]

43. If you read his first book, you'd understand why he is doing what he's doing

[reggie the dog]

45. Tyranny of the majority is always more popular than freedom

but it is still tyranny.

[Solon]

50. As GLBT people are more than aware of in California. n/t

[GeorgeGist]

51. Are you saying that if Tomas de Torquemada ...

was available Obama could have invited him to give the invocation?

[WeDidIt]

53. I didn't understand, but I do now. Read my sig.

[Hansel]

55. We understood him perfectly well thank you very much.

And your analysis is completely off the mark.

There has been a abundance written about why people are upset about this and it has little or nothing to do with not understanding what Obama was saying or wanting to cling to old politics or whether or not gay marriage is mainstream.

You can either choose to make an effort to understand by going out and reading some very good editorials written on several of the left leaning blogs, or you can continue to pretend that we don't understand and you're somehow the enlightened one. But you are either intentionally missing the point, or you are just not getting it.

Try going to the Erza Klein's website or Salon or Huffington Post or numerous other blogs and read the editorials written there. It is not about what you think it is about and those of us who are upset about this are no where near as naive or gullible as you think we are.