Joel Olsteen a better pick to reach out to the evangelical "right"?

[Cash_thatswhatiwant]

Would it be acceptable if Obama took away the invocation of Rick Warren and gave it to Joel Olsteen? Isn't he hugely successful "new" evangelical? I see he's not as comfortable talking about gays and abortion like Warren. He's gotten heat from the Right as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPeYUXuuRUM

for those who don't know, this is the jist of him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1tix_9YONg

Just out of curiosity, would Joel Olsteen be a better or worse pick for Obama to reach out to evangelicals or is he crazy/unacceptable like Warren?

I'm not asking if we should have fundies giving the invocation; the fact is that since Obama wants someone from the 'evangelical right' would Olsteen have been a better choice or pretty much the same in your view?

[TK421]

1. crazy/unacceptable n/t

[marimour]

6. why is he crazy? Is this just b/c he is an evangelical or based on actual proof?

[TK421]

22. Evangelical is 50% of my answer...the other 50% lies in the fact

that this guy, along with all of those other god-salesmen are complete and utter frauds...

Oh, and I'm almost certain this guy is nothing in real life like he is on TV

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Recursion]

35. Jimmy Carter is Evangelical. So is Jim Wallis.

This board is more and more reminding me of how * talks about Iran.

[TK421]

36. You feel free to jump on me as well...because I can handle more than

one of you :hi: I said I think he is a fraud

Don't like that?

Oh well...

[Recursion]

39. If you look downthread, I say why I think Olsteen is a bad idea

The charismatics freak out your average right-winger too.

I was objecting to the idea that "evangelical" means "conservative".

[QC]

2. He's a fraud.

Jim Wallis and Tony Campolo are both sane evangelicals.

[IndianaGreen]

47. My gaydar goes off everytime I see him on Larry King

Religion is a fraud.

[grantcart]

3. Cizik would be Ok but the Evangelicals just fired him

We do have serveral hundred Protestant pastors that would be no problem at all.

[QC]

9. That could have made for some powerful symbolism.

The representative of a new way of doing things embraces a man whom the old guard discarded.

I like that a lot better than seeing a radical cleric elevated to the position of America's Pastor.

[grantcart]

11. he's an old classmate of mine - if Obama needs his email i have it lol

[QC]

14. I know you're joking, but unfortunately I think there's no way

to unshit the bed.

Backing out would do damage and going ahead would do damage.

All Obama can do now is gut it out and try to win people's trust again, which will be hard, since this is a rerun of something he's already done to us before.

[grantcart]

16. No its fucked up beyond repair

There is a bright side


No one is talking about how great Obama's speech is going to be.


Everyone is generally depressed about fuck brains leading off with the prayer so Obama will resteal the spotlight with a brilliant ceremony.

[QC]

18. While we are looking for silver linings....

the corporate media are suddenly showing everyone just how damn weird Warren really is.

[grantcart]

20. really? I have been staying away from the MSM altogether

Just DU has been hot enough for me

[QC]

21. That's what they're saying around here.

I don't watch that crap either. ;-)

[Bluebear]

4. Why not a progressive pastor?

[Cash_thatswhatiwant]

7. I would love a progressive pastor, I'm just asking if he wants to reach out to the other side,

the evangelical side where he's making inroads with younger evangelicals, would it be better if he got someone like Joel Olsteen who isn't as outspoken about social issues really at all, rather than someone who is outspoken on things like gay rights, but where they share common ground on things like protecting the environment...?

[Recursion]

51. Like the guy delivering the benediction?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Lowery

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

5. A better pick because he's an atheist or something (whether he knows it or not)

Saw him on Larry King last week saying that God doesn't give people diseases... only cures them.

2000 years of Christian doctrine down the drain.

He seems to think God and the Devil are pretty evenly matched.

Maybe he's a Gnostic or a Zoroastrian or an Animist or something, but he's no Christian.

[grantcart]

12. and he has a great smile lol

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

15. Plus his wife's a looker and his name is an anagram of "eel jet soon"

I'm sold!

[marimour]

8. I think he'd be great!

I always catch him whenever he comes to Atlanta.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

10. Better than Rick Warren

But still not good at all. Osteen is a "prosperity" preacher who says if you obey God, you'll be blessed with all kinds of material possessions and wealth.

A better choice would have been a bishop from a mainline Protestant denomination such as a Lutheran, Methodist, UCC, Anglican, or Presbyterian.

We don't need a fundy/evangelical nut,

[marimour]

13. why not Baptist?

Baptist is as mainstream as they come.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

17. An American Baptist would be fine.

Most Southern Baptist preachers are bigoted assholes and shouldn't be anywhere near a presidential inauguration. There may be a few decent, tolerant, SBC pastors but I haven't seen them. Most of the good Southern Baptists were run out in the late 70's when the church shifted hard and fast to the extreme right.

[marimour]

19. I dont mean SBC. I just meant a Baptist minister. Plenty of them outside of the SBC.

[Neecy]

24. I think Jimmy Carter is a Southern Baptist

[Critters2]

37. No. He's a member of the Baptist Cooperative Fellowship.

Left the SBC when the fundies took over.

[beachmom]

53. Yup. It may have partially led to the sub-prime mess, because

people, knowing full well that they should not have gotten a mortgage, figured God had given it to them, and that it would all work out.

[Honeycombe8]

23. No way. Osteen is a loony tune. nt

[Vinca]

26. They're all hucksters and make you think more of a carnival sideshow

than a religious experience. It's a shame Tammy Faye isn't alive. If you've got to choose one, I'd have preferred her.

[CTyankee]

31. Now THAT would be true diversity!

The mental image I conjure up is just too funny.

I'm just sorry the dear lady passed away. She went thru a real transformation, bless her heart...

[polichick]

27. Just another fundie con man.

[jberryhill]

41. Calling Osteen a fundamentalist is like calling Burger King a restaurant /nt

[Recursion]

48. In what sense is he a fundamentalist?

Seriously, conservative and fundamentalist are not remotely synonyms. Conservative Protestant and fundamentalist are not remotely synonyms. Fundamentlists believe in a specific kind of dispensationalism.

[mgc1961]

28. Osteen would be better than Warren.

For what it's worth, I hear more motivational speaking from Osteen than wealth seeking. From a traditional theological standpoint, Wallis would be a better selection.

Personally, I wouldn't be particularly upset if the God-invocation was passed over.

Just saying.

[Clio the Leo]

30. Ewww no, that man creeps me out.

And so do his wife's eyebrows.

[Scackmgackm]

32. Why does Obama need to "reach out" at all?

Is he forgetting that he beat the ever-living-crap out of John McCain in the GE without garnering support from the evangelicals and other fundies at all?

Why does he need these people?

[Recursion]

34. Because they're Americans too

And if he doesn't find some traction for some issues in the right, we're never going to get anywhere.

Warren, like a lot of other younger evangelicals, wants to take action on climate change, health care, and poverty. We can take his help or we can piss on it. I'd rather take it.

[Scackmgackm]

49. With his help come strings

I'd rather not see what happens when you pull on them.

There are plenty of culturally distasteful, hateful Americans who I don't want to see given a seat at the table of leadership. IMHO you don't reach out to someone just because they're "American." You reach out to someone who is educated, open-minded, and thoughtful. Everyone else gets to watch.

That's like saying when you have an important business decision to make you "reach out" to all your employees even if they know nothing about the subject at hand just because "they're employees of this company, too."

[Recursion]

50. Umm

That's like saying when you have an important business decision to make you "reach out" to all your employees even if they know nothing about the subject at hand just because "they're employees of this company, too."

And you're saying that's a bad idea?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

55. Is it the teeth? nt

[Clio the Leo]

56. It's everything ABOVE his shoulders.... and his voice. NT

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

58. I'm not familiar with his voice but having seen his posters all over the place.

His teeth creep me out a little. Maybe I should say his overall "glazed" look creeps me out.

[Clio the Leo]

59. Check this out....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di9-PebV634

And I cannot help but see that HUGE crowd and think of the scripture Matthew 7:13-23, "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves..... Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles? And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'"

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

61. I could have gone my whole life without listening to that. Thanks (I think)

I now understand completely. :puke:

[Recursion]

33. Olsteen is a charismatic

That's theologically pretty far outside of the "mainstream" (relatively) of conservative Christianity in this country.

For a board as nominally obsessed with conservative Christianity as DU is, it surprises me how few people on here learn the different movements involved in it (not pointing the finger at you, just making a general commment about the board).

[jberryhill]

40. Does he even have an identifiable theology?

It seems like he took the "word of power" stuff from the pentecostals, got rid of epileptic bouts, wrapped it in late 60's pop-psychobabble, and serves it with a big side of cheese.

But, sigh, the dominant perception at DU is that there is a monolithic block of protestants beyond the mainline denominations.

[Recursion]

42. The flippant answer is "that's what charismatic means"

But, yeah, as you point out below, DU kind of shuts down whenever a southern preacher with a bad haircut appears (though it's worth pointing out that Warren very deliberately doesn't have "that" haircut or wear "that" suit -- don't think that's not a message to the right from him).

I haven't followed Olsteen very closely but AFAICT he's pretty much cut from the 70's Charismatic cloth, theologically, though Charismatism was never about theology that much.

[jberryhill]

46. Larf

I know what you mean.

I'm still upset that I can't find Tilton on paid access anymore.

[jberryhill]

38. Joel Osteen is not an evangelical

I realize that preachers generally from the south in polyester suits all look alike, but they aren't.

He's something of a Pentecostal without the mess.

[Quixote1818]

43. He doesn't bother me that much, but then again Rick Warren didn't either until I found out

who he really is the last few days.

[sniffa]

44. How about Creflo Dollar?

I know nothing about the guy but it's a great name.

[slackmaster]

45. Chicks dig Joel

[beachmom]

52. Isn't he about the Prosperity Gospel? That has not been good for this country.

It breeds conservative thinking, because if you are NOT successful or prosperous it is because you did not have enough faith or think positively enough. It is never the fact that the system was set up against you.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

54. I think Christians are offensive period

No matter how they clean up their rhetoric.

[Clear Blue Sky]

57. Why not no pastor? No invocation? Avoid all this fuss.

[alwysdrunk]

60. "Prosperity Gospel"

Olsteen is a "Prosperity Gospel" preacher. He may be popular, but he can never be the next Billy Graham with that message. The thing about Warren is he's the next Billy Graham. "America's pastor"

[ecstatic]

62. He's on Larry King right now

He just said that he thinks being gay is a choice and that he is against gay marriage and doesn't understand civil unions. :eyes: